Overland Content Feedback Thread

spartaxoxo

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

Problem 1 - no fear of death

The problem with this is when a "True" MMO player comes and says they have played games like Everquest, Tibia, Asheron's Call or Runescape, where if you died in some of those games you lost Experience, Levels, Skills points, Equipment, gold, your inventory & had to travel back to the area where you died.

How can a game be exciting or channeling, if when the mob kills you, you lose nothing at all. They will argue that just that alone makes every Overland Content Tedious and too easy and not fun at all, as you fear nothing.
Even if the overland mobs had Trial level Mechanics it's truly a snooze fest, as you can die as many times as you like and it does not matter at all.

So we first have to agree that just that alone is the first premise we are not tackling here at all. Over 100 pages of discussion and no one is talking about that.

I mentioned it.

I think it's important. There really is NO RISK in the risk vs. reward of a more challenging Overland without there being any consequences at all for dying. I don't think we should necessarily lose items, but I would like to at least lose a little time. I think there should be an option for us to NOT resurrect directly where our dead bodies lay, however they want to implement that. Obviously there is already the option to resurrect at a Wayshrine, instead, but I'd rather the prompt to resurrect where you are to be eliminated entirely (optionally), because it's too hard to not just 'take the easy road' and 'choose to get this done faster' in the heat of the moment.

This was one of my points on page 3:

• Dying needs to matter or we still have nothing to lose by failing. There should be limitations on fast travel and resurrection. I like how the new game (that shall not be named) is handling this. Putting down a little camp to resurrect at feels much like a Skyrim save file. If you forget to put the camp down and you die, it's as if you have lost your progress and are forced to start over. Soulgem usage and Wayshrine travel would have to also be limited in some fashion for this to work

Bring back having to run back to your corpse from the respawn point! That worked so well in the past, right?

Don't you realize the concept went out of games for a reason? It sounds great in principle, but works out lousy.

I think the poll that asked people if they would use such a thing was one of the most lopsided NOs of a big poll I had ever seen.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/609495/what-are-you-thoughts-on-having-consequences-upon-death-in-eso#Comment_7635578

The vast majority of people hate games that punish people very harshly for death. I think it's especially inappropriate for a game like this where much of the learning is through the death recap.

Cireous

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

Problem 1 - no fear of death

The problem with this is when a "True" MMO player comes and says they have played games like Everquest, Tibia, Asheron's Call or Runescape, where if you died in some of those games you lost Experience, Levels, Skills points, Equipment, gold, your inventory & had to travel back to the area where you died.

How can a game be exciting or channeling, if when the mob kills you, you lose nothing at all. They will argue that just that alone makes every Overland Content Tedious and too easy and not fun at all, as you fear nothing.
Even if the overland mobs had Trial level Mechanics it's truly a snooze fest, as you can die as many times as you like and it does not matter at all.

So we first have to agree that just that alone is the first premise we are not tackling here at all. Over 100 pages of discussion and no one is talking about that.

I mentioned it.

I think it's important. There really is NO RISK in the risk vs. reward of a more challenging Overland without there being any consequences at all for dying. I don't think we should necessarily lose items, but I would like to at least lose a little time. I think there should be an option for us to NOT resurrect directly where our dead bodies lay, however they want to implement that. Obviously there is already the option to resurrect at a Wayshrine, instead, but I'd rather the prompt to resurrect where you are to be eliminated entirely (optionally), because it's too hard to not just 'take the easy road' and 'choose to get this done faster' in the heat of the moment.

This was one of my points on page 3:

• Dying needs to matter or we still have nothing to lose by failing. There should be limitations on fast travel and resurrection. I like how the new game (that shall not be named) is handling this. Putting down a little camp to resurrect at feels much like a Skyrim save file. If you forget to put the camp down and you die, it's as if you have lost your progress and are forced to start over. Soulgem usage and Wayshrine travel would have to also be limited in some fashion for this to work

Bring back having to run back to your corpse from the respawn point! That worked so well in the past, right?

Don't you realize the concept went out of games for a reason? It sounds great in principle, but works out lousy.

Resurrecting away from your body is actually on trend right now and it feels much better for reasons discussed--risk vs. reward. This is more or less how resurrection works in Amazon's New World and Ashes of Creation (although Ashes will have even more death penalties than this it seems). My prediction is that these two games are going to be ESOs biggest competitors in the coming years. ESO will have to find a way to keep up with all the latest innovations and improve the questing/Overland experience, so it feels threatening, fun and unpredictable again. And... I'm saying this as a huge fan of ESO. I've put a lot of money, time and love into this game, and I still want to be playing it 10 years into our crazy future. Obviously, though, adding an improved questing experience should be entirely optional for players. I'm quite aware that this is the game people eventually land on who have bad rigs, bad latency and anguished, withered fingers, with ESO catering to those who need less of a game and more of a visual aid. I get it, the ride-and--die'ers matter the most and their loyalty should be rewarded, not trashed on. But there should be room enough for everyone if they want to remain relevant, which is a good bet IF they make real, game-changing improvements that can somehow keep everyone happy while also bringing back players who laughed this game off during the first 20 minutes of questing.

kieso

Perhaps start off by giving the npc's PC classes and more of the PC abilities.

boi_anachronism_

I mean I'd just like to see some actual mechanics with story/quest content. As it stands there is none. I don't even get one rotation in before I burn the big bad boss to the ground. It doesn't have to be insanely hard as nails but I mean molag bal should be a little bit of a challenge, right? Like I use my spammable 4x and he's dead. Not really satisfying..

DigiAngel

If I hadn't have:

• Completed a trial
• Completed a dungeon
• Completed a battleground
• Engaged in PvP in Imperial City and Cyrodill

then I would think overland content is good. However, I've done all of the above...and now overland content seems....I'd guess I'd say "too slow" now.

zombniac

Overland/quest content is too easy. Please make it difficult or give me the option to make it difficult.

Jammy420

With U35, damage is clearly down, and the mobs take longer to kill.....slightly. But they are not engaging AT ALL. They are slow, repetitive and unengaging.

Like, if the npc notices the PC is extremely powerful they should be able to call in reinforcements from the surrounding area or something. Would make it more interesting at the very least.

The mobs, and bosses need to be way more dynamic in vanilla content.

Storms_in_Argonia

I've had a lot of time to think about things since my first post in this thread, and I still think some changes and/or additions to overland are needed, but perhaps I can clarify "where" in the progression or world systems things are lacking.

MMORPGS can be social gaming outlets, but they don't have to be. With this IP of course there is probably a sizable crowd of casual soloers of all ages and skills, and I do get that you have to have a simple baseline to accomodate them and that you can't make all content people need. However, for the social crowd, I feel there is a "hole" if you will, that ought to be worked upon.

Right now with dungeons (I'm relating this to overland) there's a large spread of difficulties depending on veterancy, hard modes, dlc etc, but in general I would say you have about 4 intended tiers of stuff. You have the new to the game and really casual dungeons like Fungal Grotto that many can do. You then have some that introduce mechanics (most of the "II" dungeons). Then you have dlc dungeons and vet dungeons of simple stuff like Fungal Grotto again. Then you have dlc vet dungeons. I think the intended progression could be layed out a bit more clearly for new players, but there is a progression there in terms of difficulty and coordination generally required.

Overland I feel is missing this progression. Right now you have, for lack of better terminology, "story quests", delves, then public dungeons, then nothing. I think you feel like "world bosses" fit into this 4th slot, and difficulty-wise they do, but not in terms of social progression. World bosses don't quite fit. You can do them in guilds, or you can solo them, or you can zerg them as in recent updates. I think they are good content, and I don't want them to disappear, but I think something slightly more elaborate would help this game.

Right now, you have posts on the forums about the "jump" in difficulty between overland content/public dungeons and veteran dungeons. World bosses have good mechanics on them, but for better or worse, they're not working as social engineering tools to help people progress to group dungeons.

To put it simply, we need an additional system of content that puts the social back in the MMO to act as a bridge for soloers and underskilled/developed players to reach other aspects of the game. Right now that climb is too steep/abrupt for those who haven't experienced it or for whom ESO is their first online adventure game.

My previous MMO experience is Lotro 2007-pre Helm's deep, SWTOR, Rift, and the Secret World. Now, none of those MMORPGs are doing particularly well anymore (especially Rift), but one fantastic part (during their peak) in all of them was the use of challenging areas or mini zones that required someone to ask for help. You can call these "heroics, group areas, nightmare zones, raid rifts," whatever you want, but these areas of content provided a way for inexperienced players to get some experience in a way that didn't put the spotlight on them like it does in a dungeon. Are you a new player that's at cp 160+, not in a guild, and too nervous to queue for dungeons? Well, go to this area, even if you are shy, and try to survive, kill these mobs, do a quest. Maybe be encouraged to ask in zone chat for help? Right now there is no learning curve or on ramp for anyone even moderately socially anxious, apart from finding the perfect guild fit, to get from overland quests simpleness to "Welcome to Vet March of Sacrifices you noob, oh you got killed in that first mob pull, goodbye kthx noob(experienced player leaves group)". We need some kind of content that encourages asking for help in zone chat (again yes world bosses sometimes have this occur, but it just isn't working as it is in practice often enough), or at least informal to formal grouping up of challenging mobs.

What would this content look like? Well, it would be another daily most likely on Bolgrul or whatever his name is at an Undaunted Enclave. And the content I feel would be like a public dungeon, but the mobs would be like a vet dungeons. Pack mobs of 256k health each, roaming 1.3-2.5million tough mobs that you couldn't ignore with 1-2 mechanics each from red zones to interrupts needed, and bosses in the 6million hp+ range with 5 or so mechanics. I also want to stress this, I don't think this type of content is needed in every zone. Would it be nice, heck yeah, but I think that's obviously too much to ask in terms of workload right now, but I do think, starting out persay, one (raid area let's call it) area per alliance would be good if/when this content were introduced. It wouldn't have to come every new chapter. It could be themed around whatever. It could be like solo arena or arena content. We don't have to see new public raids for another 2 years after being first introduced, but I really think putting the time into a semi-instanced (pop capped to reduce zerging but encourage cooperation), public hardcore dungeon would be helpful for the social health of the game. There's a heck of a lot of stuff you could put in the loot tables at this point too, from completely randomized, to housing items, to gear, to emotes, to new custom animations or polymorphs.

Aside from this social difficulty ramp suggestion, many have lamented how confusing it is for new players to follow proper story. A general cleaning up of the quest UI from labled markers/color coding etc. would really help. I can only speak for myself, but I would happily take 2 dlc dungeon cycles off of new dungeons for some general organizing of the UI quest structure (without reworking content, just how it is labeled, introduced etc.) and of course new public raid dungeons, even if it was only 1 or two at a time every so often (Again, I do not think the content needed for this game needs to be added on a super regular cyclical schedule).

I really love this game, but there is a gap right now between the soloer and the grouper, and while that isn't inherently bad in and of itself, I think a lot more fun for more people could be had if we had a bit more of a bridge and that bridge doesn't have to be in every zone everywhere. It can just be in one or two places, as long as it is accesible and fun (easier said than done I acknowledge).

*edit*-It occurs to me that one might say that this was tried with old vet content or still is there with zones like Craglorn. One problem is that yeah, it was a mistake to make the entire zone group necessary (I would also argue that this overall level of work is not the needed change, you don't have to create an entire zone for vet group content or a new flagging system that changes stats of mobs in an instanced area), and the main thrust of story content should be soloable/accesible; but it is okay if some offbeat colouring of a story is behind a bit more of a challenge. I would also argue that right now, nobody is pointed to those group events in Craglorn. A new player could conceivably never know they exist until they walk by them while first adventuring in the zone itself. That is part of the general overland content that needs to be improved as well...Clearer messaging about well, a lot of stuff, from the story, dungeons in the zone, to other content. If new content were introduced, it would need an attached system or at least a daily quest attached to it that players would see. If nobody but a few guilds and vet players do the Craglorn stuff right now according to metrics, it could be due to a myriad of reasons from rewards to even knowing that it exists. Metrics don't necessarily tell the whole truth of why a certain slice of content went underplayed or utilized. It could be it was just off-base in terms of what the players wanted, it could also be that it was introduced poorly or had confusing (or non-existent) messaging directing players towards the content. It could also be that other mechanics (like the social anxiety of joining a random dungeon and having the spotlight on you because you're only 1/4) contribue to lack of play.

Thank you for your time.

AlexanderDeLarge

First time logging in and attempting overland in quite some time and overland PvE remains so tediously easy that I don't even want to continue playing and if I'm not logging in for overland, I'm not buying chapters or doing dungeons or trials or world bosses. Why would I? To collect gear that I can only use in a small fraction of the game worth playing? Pressing a single ability and killing an entire mob of enemies is not fun. I'm not even that high of a level. CP650 using normal trial gear that was the meta 4 years ago during Summerset.

If properly implemented, a veteran overland mode or difficulty slider in the style of The Lord of the Rings Online's landscape difficulty could bridge the gap between veteran dungeons/trials/arenas and facerolling through the rest of it. Currently it feels like there's a chunk of the game missing because you go from being able to ignore every mechanic in the game to dying almost instantly if you make a mistake in a veteran dungeon. There's never been a better time to introduce some sort of difficulty modifiers now that companion NPCs are in the game and it really is something we should already have in a game that markets itself on how accessible it is to all audiences.

It's funny, all this fearmongering about potentially splitting the community by introducing a veteran overland difficulty mechanic even though every other activity in the game has veteran modes, and here I am not playing the game entirely as a result. I'm certain I'm not the only one and I'm also certain that the lack of overland difficulty is hurting their bottom line. Why would someone like me continue to spend $40-$60 a year on overland PvE content that isn't enjoyable?

martinhpb16_ESO

This thread was started in November 21.

3,910 posts in - have any of the suggestions or ideas posted here been taken up by ZOS to any capacity?

What was the point of this thread?

Huge level of participation from the player base with very little to show in return.

Kevin's post at the start of this thread thanks players and encourages their feedback.

Definition of feedback: Information about reactions to a product, a person's performance of a task, etc. which is used as a basis for improvement.

martinhpb16_ESO

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

It's funny, all this fearmongering about potentially splitting the community by introducing a veteran overland difficulty mechanic even though every other activity in the game has veteran modes, and here I am not playing the game entirely as a result. I'm certain I'm not the only one and I'm also certain that the lack of overland difficulty is hurting their bottom line. Why would someone like me continue to spend $40-$60 a year on overland PvE content that isn't enjoyable?

I am starting to believe that they don't want your money, nor mine, or pvp'ers nor top-end raiders. Return on investment v effort is greater for crown shinies, cosmetics, housing and zones with 15 hours of quest content.

It's becoming obvious that they just don't want us end-gamers around. There can be no other logical explanation. Why introduce U35, drive off end-gamers and then do nothing to remedy it?

They will maintain the boring no-identity pvp and raid meta so as to continue to sucker in the remaining end-gamers in with OP mythics and sets locked behind pay-walls, that will eventually get nerfed.

Once that's been milked to the max then it's catch the last remaining casuals who have not already played their 15 hours of content by introducing events and selling the zone off at -50%.

Hexvaldr

I used to wish overland was more difficult but now I don't. I like that dailies are chill, laid back, and quick to finish. And i don't mind it so much for questing anymore. For challenges i go to dungeons, trials, or pvp.

Araxyte

Hi all,

This is the first time I've looked at this thread in some time. Being one of the first to fight for an increased difficulty overland on this particular thread, it does sadden me to read some of the posts that are shared now days. I honestly thought ZOS would have made some kind of change by now, considering the obvious decline in numbers of players.

For some context: ESO was, and hopefully will be again, my favourite MMO. I can still remember the first dungeon, fungal grotto, that I played through many years ago. The fast-paced combat, diverse build setup, and unique teamwork element this game has, is second-to-none. This is the game that drew me away from others, such as Runescape and World of Warcraft. I enjoyed the progressive nature of the game, having to level up and increase your skill in order to ascend to more difficult zones was brilliant. After the Morrowind update, in my opinion, the overland went downhill.

The overland is the largest part of this game, don't let them tell you otherwise! Without it, the game would be a husk of an MMO. Now the important part is variance: keeping the new players, veteran players, elderly players, disabled players (such as my self by the way, with carpal tunnel issues) entertained. I get the whole idea of "veteran players can go do dungeons and trials if they want a challenge", but it simply isn't enough. Players from all backgrounds need progression; something to work towards, to look forward to, and to accomplish. A mundane quest line with little to no difficulty isn't going to do that, an outdated world boss that dies in 10 seconds to a few players isn't going to do that, and most certainly not Molag Bal - the easiest endgame vanilla quest boss I've ever fought is going to do that. No, an intricate optional difficulty system is what we need, and what we've been asking for since 2021.

Let's take the new generation of young lads and lasses looking to explore an MMO into consideration. Kids now days have far greater computer gaming skills, lets be honest, than anyone looking at this post. What will they think of ESO when they kill a quest boss in 2 seconds? Lame, that's what. Not powerful, as some have suggest in this thread. They want a progressive challenge that's worthy for their fast reaction times. "But quests aren't just about a challenge, they're about a good story line". Well I'm afraid the two go hand in hand some what, whether you like it or not.

So how does ZOS fix all this? Look, I'm no game developer or story mastermind, but I am a long-time player that has some idea of how the community feels. And no, not the forum community, the actual players. The two can be very different; as demonstrated in this thread. At the end of the day, it's not our job to find the solution. We don't get paid for any of this. All we might get is some copium through forum points. Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something? But all we devout fans of ESO can do is voice our opinions on this thread and hope it reaches the ears of change. Keep fighting, and maybe ESO can become great again,

Thanks for reading.

SilverBride

Araxyte wrote: »

Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something?

Most players are not in favor of a difficulty option for overland. We had that with Caldwell's Silver and Gold and players hated it, so they removed it based on player feedback with One Tamriel.

Rich Lambert verified this and made it very clear that there are no major plans for overland when asked about it in this interview on April 14, 2022.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

Araxyte

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something?

Most players are not in favor of a difficulty option for overland. We had that with Caldwell's Silver and Gold and players hated it, so they removed it based on player feedback with One Tamriel.

Rich Lambert verified this and made it very clear that there are no major plans for overland when asked about it in this interview on April 14, 2022.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

What you have quoted is actually opinion-based. The cadwells silver and gold system dates back many years, it is outdated and flawed. Since this, we've had an overwhelming power-creep in terms of ability effectiveness. And notice how Rich states "a large portion", not majority. The fact is, they don't know. What the majority on this thread are asking for is an option, not a blanket overhaul.

SilverBride

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something?

Most players are not in favor of a difficulty option for overland. We had that with Caldwell's Silver and Gold and players hated it, so they removed it based on player feedback with One Tamriel.

Rich Lambert verified this and made it very clear that there are no major plans for overland when asked about it in this interview on April 14, 2022.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

What you have quoted is actually opinion-based. The cadwells silver and gold system dates back many years, it is outdated and flawed. Since this, we've had an overwhelming power-creep in terms of ability effectiveness. And notice how Rich states "a large portion", not majority. The fact is, they don't know. What the majority on this thread are asking for is an option, not a blanket overhaul.

What I quoted was Rich Lambert's reply when asked about this topic just under 6 months ago, so is not outdated and is relevant to the game today.

Rich is aware of the feedback in this thread which he also verified in that interview. But the bottom line is that there are no major changes for overland difficulty.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something?

Most players are not in favor of a difficulty option for overland. We had that with Caldwell's Silver and Gold and players hated it, so they removed it based on player feedback with One Tamriel.

Rich Lambert verified this and made it very clear that there are no major plans for overland when asked about it in this interview on April 14, 2022.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

What you have quoted is actually opinion-based. The cadwells silver and gold system dates back many years, it is outdated and flawed. Since this, we've had an overwhelming power-creep in terms of ability effectiveness. And notice how Rich states "a large portion", not majority. The fact is, they don't know. What the majority on this thread are asking for is an option, not a blanket overhaul.

What I quoted was Rich Lambert's reply when asked about this topic just under 6 months ago, so is not outdated and is relevant to the game today.

Rich is aware of the feedback in this thread which he also verified in that interview. But the bottom line is that there are no major changes for overland difficulty.

IMO there should be changes. Player numbers from what I've seen for end-game players are haemorrhaging.

In regards to Rich's example back to Cadwell's, I agree with @Araxyte. That argument is flawed. It was a broken system from 8 years ago that never really saw any updates. The game has changed since then. Back then Cadwell zones were heavily split due to One-Tamriel not being a thing, so cross-alliance play overland didn't exist - you were locked to your alliance zones and people with the same starting alliance. Back then we also have Veteran Ranks which was a horrible system, gaining levels were painfully slow and the meta is so, so different. Lets also not forget around the time of Cadwell zones, ESO was not heavily popular as it is now.



Edited.

martinhpb16_ESO

Araxyte wrote: »

I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something? But all we devout fans of ESO can do is voice our opinions on this thread and hope it reaches the ears of change. Keep fighting, and maybe ESO can become great again,

Thanks for reading.

I agree with everything you say.

As a glass half full person I have always been hopeful, I mean the fact that this thread exists would mean that ZOS is keen to elicit feedback and act upon it, right?

Well my glass has been drained, its empty, I got so thirsty I drank up, smacked my lips and smelt the after dinner coffee.

It's not coming, they ain't doing zilch, its too hard or not enough cash involved or whatever.

If they were going to do anything they would of said something by now.

"We hear you players, we need time to think about this and we will get back to you in a month or so and tell you what we can't do and then we will tell you what we can do. Because you know what guys, you players are what make this game and we want you all to be happy".

After 3k posts I guess we can assume it ain't gonna happen.

Time to play cards, buy some new pets from the store, decorate your house, pick some flowers or just go find a satisfying game elsewhere.

Araxyte

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something?

Most players are not in favor of a difficulty option for overland. We had that with Caldwell's Silver and Gold and players hated it, so they removed it based on player feedback with One Tamriel.

Rich Lambert verified this and made it very clear that there are no major plans for overland when asked about it in this interview on April 14, 2022.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

What you have quoted is actually opinion-based. The cadwells silver and gold system dates back many years, it is outdated and flawed. Since this, we've had an overwhelming power-creep in terms of ability effectiveness. And notice how Rich states "a large portion", not majority. The fact is, they don't know. What the majority on this thread are asking for is an option, not a blanket overhaul.

What I quoted was Rich Lambert's reply when asked about this topic just under 6 months ago, so is not outdated and is relevant to the game today.

Rich is aware of the feedback in this thread which he also verified in that interview. But the bottom line is that there are no major changes for overland difficulty.

I stand by my word. Without the facts and data, we don't know. "Difficulty is subjective" you've quoted. They admitted they don't exactly know what would happen if they added an optional difficulty. Some of the more successful MMO's out their have a form of difficulty option. Furthermore, everyone is meant to find difficulty in a game until they overcome it. How long does 'new player' status last in ESO - 3 days? All this is irrelevant anyway - what most people are asking for is an option. Hard or easy. I've yet to hear Rich's opinion on the specifics of this matter. It's also worth mentioning that Rich isn't the overlord of ESO, no good hiding behind his skirt when there are many others dictating the progression of this game.

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something?

Most players are not in favor of a difficulty option for overland. We had that with Caldwell's Silver and Gold and players hated it, so they removed it based on player feedback with One Tamriel.

Rich Lambert verified this and made it very clear that there are no major plans for overland when asked about it in this interview on April 14, 2022.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

What you have quoted is actually opinion-based. The cadwells silver and gold system dates back many years, it is outdated and flawed. Since this, we've had an overwhelming power-creep in terms of ability effectiveness. And notice how Rich states "a large portion", not majority. The fact is, they don't know. What the majority on this thread are asking for is an option, not a blanket overhaul.

What I quoted was Rich Lambert's reply when asked about this topic just under 6 months ago, so is not outdated and is relevant to the game today.

Rich is aware of the feedback in this thread which he also verified in that interview. But the bottom line is that there are no major changes for overland difficulty.

IMO there should be changes. Player numbers from what I've seen for end-game players are haemorrhaging.

In regards to Rich's example back to Cadwell's, I agree with @Araxyte. That argument is massively flawed. It was a broken system 8 years ago that never really saw any updates. The game has changed since then. Back then Cadwell zones were heavily split due to One-Tamriel not being a thing so cross-alliance play overland was not a thing, veteran ranks were a thing and that was a massively flawed system and also back then the game was not even close to popularity.

Let's set Cadwell's Silver and Gold aside for a moment and just look at the part of Rich's reply concerning the state of the game today.

"We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points."

They have noted player feedback and we have been given an answer.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland. And that's all that ZOS needs to know! I honestly don't know why it's taking them this long to sort it all out. Maybe they are working on something?

Most players are not in favor of a difficulty option for overland. We had that with Caldwell's Silver and Gold and players hated it, so they removed it based on player feedback with One Tamriel.

Rich Lambert verified this and made it very clear that there are no major plans for overland when asked about it in this interview on April 14, 2022.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.

What you have quoted is actually opinion-based. The cadwells silver and gold system dates back many years, it is outdated and flawed. Since this, we've had an overwhelming power-creep in terms of ability effectiveness. And notice how Rich states "a large portion", not majority. The fact is, they don't know. What the majority on this thread are asking for is an option, not a blanket overhaul.

What I quoted was Rich Lambert's reply when asked about this topic just under 6 months ago, so is not outdated and is relevant to the game today.

Rich is aware of the feedback in this thread which he also verified in that interview. But the bottom line is that there are no major changes for overland difficulty.

IMO there should be changes. Player numbers from what I've seen for end-game players are haemorrhaging.

In regards to Rich's example back to Cadwell's, I agree with @Araxyte. That argument is massively flawed. It was a broken system 8 years ago that never really saw any updates. The game has changed since then. Back then Cadwell zones were heavily split due to One-Tamriel not being a thing so cross-alliance play overland was not a thing, veteran ranks were a thing and that was a massively flawed system and also back then the game was not even close to popularity.

Let's set Cadwell's Silver and Gold aside for a moment and just look at the part of Rich's reply concerning the state of the game today.

"We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points."

They have noted player feedback and we have been given an answer.

As a new player? Can we stop catering to these players? THEY WILL STOP BEING NEW. They will get experience and honestly 2 shotting mobs with light attacks when you get gear, HELL, even crafted gear it becomes super boring.

Oh and how many of these millions have been inactive, banned, are bots or alt accounts? Also if people are seriously trying in this game and find it challenging then it is a skill issue, and with practice can get out of.

SilverBride

Many players who enjoy overland as it is aren't new or unskilled. I'm experienced and geared and I find overland easy, which is exactly how I enjoy it. I do not find it the least bit boring. I play to relax, not struggle.

Regardless, our feedback has been noted and we have been given an answer.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Many players who enjoy overland as it is aren't new or unskilled. I'm experienced and geared and I find overland easy, which is exactly how I enjoy it. I do not find it the least bit boring. I play to relax, not struggle.

Regardless, our feedback has been noted and we have been given an answer.

Ok but we want the bloody O P T I O N to make it harder. You like power tripping and I like the struggle and challenge. Your playstyle is not the same as everyone else's.

Araxyte

SilverBride wrote: »

Many players who enjoy overland as it is aren't new or unskilled. I'm experienced and geared and I find overland easy, which is exactly how I enjoy it. I do not find it the least bit boring. I play to relax, not struggle.

Regardless, our feedback has been noted and we have been given an answer.

Does not mean it's the right answer. As so many forumers, youtubers, and core data has provided. The game is in decline, the covid peak has passed, many have moved on. I'd love to see an in-game polling system in ESO, like that of Old School Runescape, that really shows what everyone thinks. I'd bet good money that people would vote for an optional hard overland.

Alas, we're stuck with the ZOS profiteers and forum-players, rather than player vote-based democracy. So you're right, none of this matters.

SilverBride

All feedback matters and is valid.

I'm just saying Rich made the statement that a lot of players find overland challenging even today. I am not sure what all of his sources are, but they see a lot that we don't and know how many players are doing which content, so I trust his judgement.

martinhpb16_ESO

SilverBride wrote: »

All feedback matters and is valid.

I'm just saying Rich made the statement that a lot of players find overland challenging even today. I am not sure what all of his sources are, but they see a lot that we don't and know how many players are doing which content, so I trust his judgement.

Over what people are telling you directly about their experience of the game? Interesting

Destyran

I have done every quest in the game I’m not a 5star in pvp and I have 498 skill points.

The quests are a bore. They aren’t interesting because you can kill things with a light attack and it eventually makes you stop paying attention and zone out. Definitely buff overland content. Make craglorn a REAL adventure zone again. BUFF ALL CONTENT

CP5

Rich's statement was identical to the one he made in December during one of his streams, showing that their opinion hasn't changed at all during this thread's duration. They either haven't read what's been posted, haven't internalized what people are saying, or flat out don't care. We've stated many times how old gold/silver and old craglorn aren't what many are asking for. Old silver and gold did nothing but stat pad enemies who weren't all that interesting to fight against, and craglorn did that and quadrupled mob pack sizes to 'encourage' 4 man groups. Those are not what many people are asking for.

Those who are used to running vet content are used to enemies who are more dynamic, more interesting, and require a degree of thought to fight. Some of the newer players who freshly pick up ESO find the combat dull and leave the game without knowing the potential it offers because the entire world is based around such a simple standard, and that simple standard fails in every way to give players a way to improve outside of solo arena's and group content. An option, that wouldn't take anything away from those who already enjoy things as is, that provides more meaningful combat encounters would help address those issues, and given that ZOS rebalanced the health of many enemies in every dungeon and trial mid way though last PTS tells me that they could accommodate such changes even if they only did a handful of zones at a time like when they updated delves in the base game zones.

SilverBride

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

All feedback matters and is valid.

I'm just saying Rich made the statement that a lot of players find overland challenging even today. I am not sure what all of his sources are, but they see a lot that we don't and know how many players are doing which content, so I trust his judgement.

Over what people are telling you directly about their experience of the game? Interesting

It is a very small percentage of players who post on the forums. In all my years of playing I have never even once heard anyone complain in game that overland is too easy or boring or that they wish that it was harder. But I heard plenty of complaints in game that it was too hard before One Tamriel.

The whole reason I replied was to respond to the statement that "Most people are clearly in favour of a difficulty option for overland." when there is no evidence of that beyond some forum posts. Rich has access to data we don't and he stated that a lot of players still find overland challenging.

spartaxoxo

There’s a general rule of thumb that’s known by most community professionals:

* Less than 10% of all players will ever even look at your forums or owned channels
* Of that 10%, less than 10% will ever be an active participant in the conversation on these owned channels

This is something a community manager said in another game, but it's true across the industry and I think is relevant here. It's also known that people who actively participate in forums tend to be more hardcore than people who don't.

I think it's highly likely that the majority of endgamers would like to see harder overland. But, highly unlikely that holds true of the majority of the playbase. A lot of them don't even want to dlc dungeons and only want to do Fungal Grotto. ZoS literally has to bribe people to do it.

Rich has made it pretty clear they don't think the majority would enjoy this.

I actually don't think that matters though. There's all kinds of content for minority populations in this game, why should that be a reason we can't have difficulty options? In my opinion, the majority not wanting it is only reason as to why it shouldn't be forced. It's not a good reason as why to we can't get anything at all.

I also thought it was super lame he didn't address any direct feedback on this thread, and to date this thread has not received a direct response from anyone on the team.