Please answer honestly

hafgood

Option 3 - I couldn't care less whether they tell us more or not. I'm not a TES nerd, I don't care about the Lore, I just enjoy the game for what it is, a game.

faeeichenlaub

Azura will tell you what she did to them when she is good and ready.

Yours in twilight,
Faellah

TheImperfect

I'm open to both possibilities, I like the mystery but there are other mysteries and more can be introduced. I'd like it if some more was revealed but perhaps it led to another mystery or a larger mystery. I have had many theories come and go in my head about it over time. I think revealing it could be fun but I like having the mystery too, there definitely needs to be some aspects of the lore that are left enigmatic.

BloodyStigmata

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

SilverIce58 wrote: »

I thought that the agreed-upon theory was that the Dwemer basically became the "skin" of the Numidium.

This relies on non-cannon out-of-game texts, so I wouldn't say it's agreed upon.

Supreme_Atromancer

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

Urvoth wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Imagine thinking the lack of lore and explanation is better than a real, quality story

Imagine having no imagination.

So speculating is better than story telling and ignorance > knowledge for you? Why even care about the lore at all if it's just "imagination" or hypothesis? You can have quality stories with room for interpretation, you know. Would you really like a lazy "oh they disappeared" explanation over some epic quest chain or discovery process with actual implications and significance?

Its interesting that you need to prop up your own opinions on dispersions against others. There is a whole thread here of reasons people don't want to see the Dwemer, but I suppose if you read them all, you'd be forced to be open to opinions and ideas different than your own. And that can be scary.

Urvoth

Yes we need to know where are they!!!

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Imagine thinking the lack of lore and explanation is better than a real, quality story

Imagine having no imagination.

So speculating is better than story telling and ignorance > knowledge for you? Why even care about the lore at all if it's just "imagination" or hypothesis? You can have quality stories with room for interpretation, you know. Would you really like a lazy "oh they disappeared" explanation over some epic quest chain or discovery process with actual implications and significance?

I would. Because there's a lot else that can be given form in stories and lore, and the dwemer need to remain a mystery.

Why do they need to remain a mystery? Is there an actual valid reason?

merpins

Yes we need to know where are they!!!

I like a good mystery, but I'd also like to know the answer. I know all the major theories. The dwemer were trying to use the heart of lorkhan to create their own god, and Kagrenac quickly struck the heart with his resonance tools when his life was in danger by the invading Chimer (Sotha Sil, Almalexia, Vivec and Dagoth). He was too hasty, had not perfected whatever he was trying to accomplish, and whatever he did, it did not go according to plan. The Dwemer disappeared in a flash of light, leaving behind everything they had created.
Speculation ranges from they succeeded the the creation of the Numidium, the god they were trying to create as the 10th divine alongside the 8 and Talos (I argue that Talos is a daedra since he did not give up part of his being to create nirn, but i digress), or failed due to one or more Dwemer not being present in that plane at the time that the heart was struck, to all dwemer being transported to an outer plane deep in oblivion and even all the dwemer becoming the metal that is used to make up numidium. It's unclear, but I'd like to believe it's a plot point they might bring back later, like maybe they rebuilt in a plane of oblivion and invade, maybe they got shunted into the future like Samurai Jack/Alduin. Who knows, the power of a god is weird. but if it is a plot point they use later, they won't use it in eso. Eso takes place in the past, and it's a big enough mystery that said plot point could make a whole ES title.

VDoom1

Yes we need to know where are they!!!

Hmmm....the Dwemer have always been this mystery. I am very curios about them. What happened? Where did they go, did they just vanish or were they wiped out? Did they just leave?

However I will add that some mysteries are better left unsolved. Finding out the answer can be disappointing and underwhelming.

I'm on the fence. I'd like a good answer yes, but at the same time perhaps it's best to just leave it be.

Folkb

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

I like the mystery 🙂

Vhozek

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

They all died waiting for TES 6

Vhozek

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

Yagrum Bagarn encounter is the only acceptable answer.

Narvuntien

Both. I want to know because I always want to know everything but not knowing is such a good hook, I like speculating and wondering and wandering through ruins wondering.

Cillion3117

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

The mystery is the magic that makes them seem so cool. They are like the lost civilization of Atlantis, but in Nirn.

VaranisArano

Urvoth wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Imagine thinking the lack of lore and explanation is better than a real, quality story

Imagine having no imagination.

So speculating is better than story telling and ignorance > knowledge for you? Why even care about the lore at all if it's just "imagination" or hypothesis? You can have quality stories with room for interpretation, you know. Would you really like a lazy "oh they disappeared" explanation over some epic quest chain or discovery process with actual implications and significance?

I would. Because there's a lot else that can be given form in stories and lore, and the dwemer need to remain a mystery.

Why do they need to remain a mystery? Is there an actual valid reason?

Why is it left to you to determine what is a "valid reason"?

"Valid" is, well, in the eye of the beholder. You can dismiss the reasons I'll give, and I can dismiss the reasons you'll give...not because they aren't "valid" but because this is all opinion, and we disagree.

In the end, it'll be Bethesda making that choice. Not you or me.


In my opinion, having sources of mystery in the lore is a good thing for the franchise. It generates interest and on-going discussions from the fans.

Consider that "What happened to the Dwemer?" is the sort of question that involves lore from Morrowind, Skyrim, and ESO - it's a question that makes a 19-year-old game relevant again, and encourages interested players to go explore Vvardenfell and meet Yagrum Bagarn for themselves. Answer that question in a different game, and well, now we only need that game. All the rest were mistaken, and no longer of interest for the discussion.

Consider also that the people of Tamriel don't know what happened to the Dwemer and the enormous playability that comes from the player sharing that ignorance. Because we don't know, when we explore the dwemer ruins of Vvardenfell, Skyrim, and ESO, we share in the ignorance of the in-game world and their thirst for knowledge. Once we find out (in a future game), then there is no more reason for exploration and discovery in past games. Imagine that someone replays TES III and Archamge Trebonius tells them to discover what happened to the Dwemer. "Well, in TES X Future Game, I know that the Dwemer did blah, blah, blah. But that's 500 years in the future, so here, let me write a boring report full of false info because nobody knows it yet..." Creating that sort of disconnect between player knowledge and older gameplay is a solid way to ruin the stakes of your story - especially in a franchise with so much emphasis on replayability as TES. Example of a case where the disconnect between player knowledge and plot ruins the stakes for me: ESO's Morrowind.

I've played TES III so obviously I knew that Chodala was not the Nerevarine and that Vivec doesn't lose his divine powers, and the city isn't destroyed by the meteor. Every single major plot point of that Chapter fell flat because I already knew what happened.

The mystery of the Dwemer is an amazing bit of replayability and roleplaying that keeps players grounded in the world of Tamriel.

Consider that the mystery of what happened at Red Mountain is central to the plot of TES III Morrowind. We don't know, in-universe or out of it, what happened or what the Tools of Kagrenac are fully capable of when used on the Heart of Lorkhan. That "not knowing" builds up the hubris of the Tribunal and menace of Dagoth Ur in using the tools, and explains the wisdom of Nerevar in not using them. We don't know if Kagrenac did something terrible or something wonderful when he disappeared his people. Here's the kicker - the people of Tamriel don't know. We as players don't know anymore than the Tribunal did. We, like them, make the best decisions we can with incomplete information. Now, answer that mystery, and suddenly we are judging them with knowledge they don't have. Maybe that appeals to people who want to know, but I think it ruins the complexity of the characters, who fundamentally didn't know. There's a certain grace we can extend in roleplaying only when we too, don't know.


Often this business of "What happened to the Dwemer?" comes with the idea that the Dwemer should return. Some people will ask for them to be a playable race. For those people:

Consider that chronologically, the Dwemer are still a mystery until at least 4E 201. We are 2E 582 - it might happen in a future game, but it ain't happening in ESO.

Consider that the mystery of "What happened to the Dwemer?" is a major way that TES distinguishes itself from other fantasy franchises. Every so often, we get the question from new TES players "There are elves, so where are the Dwarves?" Well, even the dwarves are elves, and they disappeared ages ago, and no one really ones what happened to them. That's quite distinct. Other franchises have done steampunk dwarves.

Consider that the disappeared Dwemer offer a whole different level of gameplay than the other races. TES has the benefit of playing with the lore of the disappeared Dwemer as we've learned more and more about their civilization through archeology and exploration rather than rolling up to the nearest city and just talking to an NPC. While one could say this reduces the Dwemer to a handful of dungeons and construct enemies, rather from a gameplay perspective it makes the Dwemer civilization far more interesting as we piece together what they're lives were like from observation and the clues left behind. It's considerably different from, say, learning about High Elf society by talking to a snotty NPC who condescends to explain the obvious to this nebarra.

Consider that making the Dwemer a playable race means taking that mystery and reducing it to the level of "Dwemer is BIS Stam DPS this patch." Maybe it would be worth it to play a Dwemer, for some people. For me, part of the attraction of the Dwemer is the mystery. They aren't just another form of Redguard, Orc, or Dunmer.


Now, given that "valid" is in the eye of the beholder, I don't really expect the above to convince anyone who really wants to know what happened to the Dwemer.

But I see an awful lot of value to leaving the Dwemer as an enduring mystery in the franchise.

And really, it's as simple as this: the stories told in the TES games will endure long beyond the gameplay. ESO's stories will endure long after the servers are turned off. Ten, twenty, or fifty years in the future, when people ask "What happened to the Dwemer?" there's really two answers.

1. We know what happened to the Dwemer. This question is reduced to trivia, asked by someone who didn't "google" it or just made it obvious they didn't play TES X: Future Game.

2. We don't know what happened to the Dwemer, and we answer with everything we've learned from games since Morrowind, and the many interesting speculations that players have come up with in the meantime.

Now, I can't answer for you or Bethesda, but if I were in charge of a fantasy franchise, I know which discussion I'd rather fans be having in ten, twenty, fifty years.

Sylvermynx

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

@VaranisArano - welp, I don't have to answer after all, 'cause you did it for me, thanks! Urvoth, you can play Varanis' answer across the board for me.

Elsonso

Yes we need to know where are they!!!

Xebov wrote: »

In TES3 you could find ash in the places Dwemer where when they disappeared and the last surviving Dwemer told that he was far away, making him uneffected. You also had Dwemer appear as angry ghosts (except for the one in Mournhold you could talk to) which indicates they where all burned to death given that a higher existence would likely not leave any ghosts behind.

ZOS needs to add a quest where we go put little piles of ash in random spots in Dwemer ruins...

ArchangelIsraphel

Urvoth wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Imagine thinking the lack of lore and explanation is better than a real, quality story

Imagine having no imagination.

So speculating is better than story telling and ignorance > knowledge for you? Why even care about the lore at all if it's just "imagination" or hypothesis? You can have quality stories with room for interpretation, you know. Would you really like a lazy "oh they disappeared" explanation over some epic quest chain or discovery process with actual implications and significance?

The way that the Dwemer's disappearance is used to facilitate the development of other characters who seek out new information about them is hardly lazy in ESO. Revealing every mystery and showing your audience whats behind every door is not always the best story telling device. I personally enjoy the way the Elder Scrolls presents the player with these unsolved conundrums that keep you coming back for more, that encourage you to gather bits and pieces of the lore so that you end up comparing and contrasting them in an attempt to solve the puzzle, exactly like the characters in the game are doing. It is engaging, it makes you crave the knowledge if you have an interest in it- and it can fluster and frustrate you when you don't get more, exactly as it would one of the characters who are trying to research the mysteries of the Dwemer. It's a well crafted experience. Where as blatantly divulging everything and anything about such an ancient secret would spoil the underlying mystery that makes the lore within the Elder Scrolls so intriguing.

There's a rule in writing that many who practice the craft try to follow. "Show, don't tell." If a book tells you everything about a character in a laundry list on page one, do you have a reason to continue reading the book to find out more about the character? No, you don't. Instead, the author leaves aspects of the character a mystery to the reader, so that they are compelled to know more as the story progresses. Sometimes mysteries concerning certain characters are left as mysteries throughout an entire series of books- just look at Tolkien, for example. There are aspects of his stories that fans speculate on even to this day because he crafted mystery into his stories to keep them interesting! They drive the fandom to engage with the story by writing fanfiction, talking to each other, making speculations, and basing their own fantasies on Tolkiens.

Sometimes half-truths, rumors, and mysteries that you only receive a glimpse at are far better at telling a tale than divulging every secret on page one. For this reason, I think the Dwemer should remain in the shadows.

Edit: I just saw Varanis' well crafted reply after I posted mine- I agree wholeheartedly with everything they said.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

After removing a few posts that were Baiting and Non-Constructive, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding.

VaranisArano

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Imagine thinking the lack of lore and explanation is better than a real, quality story

Imagine having no imagination.

So speculating is better than story telling and ignorance > knowledge for you? Why even care about the lore at all if it's just "imagination" or hypothesis? You can have quality stories with room for interpretation, you know. Would you really like a lazy "oh they disappeared" explanation over some epic quest chain or discovery process with actual implications and significance?

The way that the Dwemer's disappearance is used to facilitate the development of other characters who seek out new information about them is hardly lazy in ESO. Revealing every mystery and showing your audience whats behind every door is not always the best story telling device. I personally enjoy the way the Elder Scrolls presents the player with these unsolved conundrums that keep you coming back for more, that encourage you to gather bits and pieces of the lore so that you end up comparing and contrasting them in an attempt to solve the puzzle, exactly like the characters in the game are doing. It is engaging, it makes you crave the knowledge if you have an interest in it- and it can fluster and frustrate you when you don't get more, exactly as it would one of the characters who are trying to research the mysteries of the Dwemer. It's a well crafted experience. Where as blatantly divulging everything and anything about such an ancient secret would spoil the underlying mystery that makes the lore within the Elder Scrolls so intriguing.

There's a rule in writing that many who practice the craft try to follow. "Show, don't tell." If a book tells you everything about a character in a laundry list on page one, do you have a reason to continue reading the book to find out more about the character? No, you don't. Instead, the author leaves aspects of the character a mystery to the reader, so that they are compelled to know more as the story progresses. Sometimes mysteries concerning certain characters are left as mysteries throughout an entire series of books- just look at Tolkien, for example. There are aspects of his stories that fans speculate on even to this day because he crafted mystery into his stories to keep them interesting! They drive the fandom to engage with the story by writing fanfiction, talking to each other, making speculations, and basing their own fantasies on Tolkiens.

Sometimes half-truths, rumors, and mysteries that you only receive a glimpse at are far better at telling a tale than divulging every secret on page one. For this reason, I think the Dwemer should remain in the shadows.

Edit: I just saw Varanis' well crafted reply after I posted mine- I agree wholeheartedly with everything they said.

Your example of Tolkien is beautifully apt! He created a mythos for his world that fans love to immerse themselves into. Lore-centric video games like the Elder Scrolls franchise really lean into that same style of world building.

And so when we consider that characters like Tom Bombadil are still being discussed and theorized about (and their exclusion from movies hotly debated), some 60+ years after publication, that neatly illustrates the value of mysteries in the creation of a mythos.

And you described the "well-crafted experience" of encouraging players to engage with the in-game and out-of-game mystery of the Dwemer perfectly! Once we know the answer out-of-game, there's just no mystery at all. Since we don't know, we participate in the mystery.

Gilvoth

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

Cillion3117 wrote: »

The mystery is the magic that makes them seem so cool. They are like the lost civilization of Atlantis, but in Nirn.

Exactly.
well said.
Too often when we find truth, is far far less then what we imagined.

SidraWillowsky

Urvoth wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

The3sFinest wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Imagine thinking the lack of lore and explanation is better than a real, quality story

Imagine having no imagination.

So speculating is better than story telling and ignorance > knowledge for you? Why even care about the lore at all if it's just "imagination" or hypothesis? You can have quality stories with room for interpretation, you know. Would you really like a lazy "oh they disappeared" explanation over some epic quest chain or discovery process with actual implications and significance?

I would. Because there's a lot else that can be given form in stories and lore, and the dwemer need to remain a mystery.

Why do they need to remain a mystery? Is there an actual valid reason?

While TES III doesn't directly involve the Dwemer, the main story is built on an event that DID involve them-- the Battle of Red Mountain. There are many different accounts of what happened there --see https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Battle_of_Red_Mountain-- to the point that no one can even agree when the battle took place. If you're not familiar, the events of the Battle involve the disappearance of the Dwemer, Nerevar's death, and the Tools of Kagrenac, which fall into the hands of Nerevar's three generals --Almalexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil, obv-- who then go on to use them to become gods.

Everyone who you talk to seems to have a different account of what happened there, and you never actually learn the truth even though it's when your character (or the soul of) dies. You never learn the "true" account of your character's own death. You never learn the true *anything*, actually-- that's all up to you in the end.

TES III is close to 20 years old at this point, but if you go to the teslore subreddit, you'll see that people are still actively discussing it. They're *still* positing new theories, analyzing texts, and arguing about it, and that wouldn't be the case if we knew what happened to the Dwemer or how the Tribunal rose to power or much of anything about the BoRM. It's the unreliable narrators and unknowns that makes the events of TES III so intriguing, at least IMO, and I think that most agree.

the1andonlyskwex

Yes we need to know where are they!!!

I'd love to see more exploration/explanation of the dwemer, but I don't think an ESO chapter is the right way to do it. I think it needs to be a bigger deal, like a multi-chapter arc, a single player game, or the main plot of an eventual ESO2.

drunkendx

"live in ignorance"?

[snip]

Also, go play TES III, that game answered what happened to Dwemer.

[edited for baiting]

Gilvoth

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

drunkendx wrote: »

"live in ignorance"?

[snip]

Also, go play TES III, that game answered what happened to Dwemer.

so very well said,
quoted for truth.

Skullstachio

I sometimes like to think that the dragon god of time (akatosh) sent all the souls of the dwarves in tamriel careening through into an alternative universal timeline in the elder scrolls universe as no doubt the events of red mountain and the attempted manipulation of Lorkhans Heart would no doubt catch the attention of said dragon god, hence a proverbial dragonbreak which would not only keep the dwarves from misusing the heart for their own selfish desires (whatever they may be aside from creating the numidium.) but also keeping all manner of tamrielians from ever discerning the truth.

I also know that, if there is anything that would hold the answers to the dwarves disappearance, it may either be Hermaeus Mora (provided you have knowledge sufficient enough to exchange for such cosmic ululation) or to seek out a particular Elder Scroll which may or may not hold that truth about the dwarves disappearance in high esteem.

VaranisArano is 100% accurate though, some mysteries are best left unanswered until a particular point in ESO’s history where it may end up becoming more significant.

Sylvermynx

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

Skullstachio wrote: »

I sometimes like to think that the dragon god of time (akatosh) sent all the souls of the dwarves in tamriel careening through into an alternative universal timeline in the elder scrolls universe as no doubt the events of red mountain and the attempted manipulation of Lorkhans Heart would no doubt catch the attention of said dragon god, hence a proverbial dragonbreak which would not only keep the dwarves from misusing the heart for their own selfish desires (whatever they may be aside from creating the numidium.) but also keeping all manner of tamrielians from ever discerning the truth.

I also know that, if there is anything that would hold the answers to the dwarves disappearance, it may either be Hermaeus Mora (provided you have knowledge sufficient enough to exchange for such cosmic ululation) or to seek out a particular Elder Scroll which may or may not hold that truth about the dwarves disappearance in high esteem.

VaranisArano is 100% accurate though, some mysteries are best left unanswered until a particular point in ESO’s history where it may end up becoming more significant.

If I could give you a thousand awesomes, I would. Cheers!

JJOtterBear

Yes we need to know where are they!!!

Gilvoth wrote: »

Cillion3117 wrote: »

The mystery is the magic that makes them seem so cool. They are like the lost civilization of Atlantis, but in Nirn.

Exactly.
well said.
Too often when we find truth, is far far less then what we imagined.

the answer is to not have expectations then. expectations will inevitably lead to disappointed. having an unbiased perspective allows to accept and appreciate something for what it is.

Gilvoth

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

JJOtterBear wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Cillion3117 wrote: »

The mystery is the magic that makes them seem so cool. They are like the lost civilization of Atlantis, but in Nirn.

Exactly.
well said.
Too often when we find truth, is far far less then what we imagined.

the answer is to not have expectations then. expectations will inevitably lead to disappointed. having an unbiased perspective allows to accept and appreciate something for what it is.

no, here ...

https://youtu.be/tB1NKzePyM4?t=113

@1:53 of this video is what approximately the answer to what happened to Septimus, and Dwarves, we dont know where he went, we dont know where the Dwarves went.
it leaves us to imagination, and it needs to and did stay that way in skyrim and in morrowind.

nothing was lost as you describe.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

No, I prefer to live in ignorance

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Skullstachio wrote: »

I sometimes like to think that the dragon god of time (akatosh) sent all the souls of the dwarves in tamriel careening through into an alternative universal timeline in the elder scrolls universe as no doubt the events of red mountain and the attempted manipulation of Lorkhans Heart would no doubt catch the attention of said dragon god, hence a proverbial dragonbreak which would not only keep the dwarves from misusing the heart for their own selfish desires (whatever they may be aside from creating the numidium.) but also keeping all manner of tamrielians from ever discerning the truth.

I also know that, if there is anything that would hold the answers to the dwarves disappearance, it may either be Hermaeus Mora (provided you have knowledge sufficient enough to exchange for such cosmic ululation) or to seek out a particular Elder Scroll which may or may not hold that truth about the dwarves disappearance in high esteem.

VaranisArano is 100% accurate though, some mysteries are best left unanswered until a particular point in ESO’s history where it may end up becoming more significant.

If I could give you a thousand awesomes, I would. Cheers!

So totally agree with @Sylvermynx .
Very well written.
1,000 Huzzahs!!!

Watchdog

@ZeroDPS - Honest answer is, that your poll is intentially biased in favour of the answer you want to hear.

The Dwemer lore is so attractive exactly because of the mystery of their disapearance and their legacy the other races barely understand the functions of.

There is no way Tamriel could learn what happened to them in the 2nd Era and this absolutely amazing discovery would not be known in the 3rd and 4th Eras, hence invalidating the previous single player games taking place during those Eras.