Make less incentive for kill counts in Non-deathmatch BG games?

marshill88

More often than I wish, in BG matches such as Chaosball or domination, there are people on my team who only care about their kill counts. Of course, this generally causes the entire team to lose. Would it be a good idea to make less incentive for playing like this?

Brrrofski

No thanks.

Instead, make kills count towards score.

Most of us don't want to play chaosball, or domination or whatever.

We want to play TDM.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and that run around doing objectives.

[Edit to remove bait]

marshill88

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

Instead, make kills count towards score.

Most of us don't want to play chaosball, or domination or whatever.

We want to play TDM.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and that run around doing objectives.

that's fine with me as well...my main point is the way it is now, players who focus on kill counts outside of DM are horrible teammates and ruin the team's chances of winning.

Marcus_Aurelius

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and that run around doing objectives.

You know that "PvP" doesn't mean player killing players, right?

[Edit to remove bait]

Jaraal

It's ZOS' fault for making people play modes they don't want to play. Don't blame the players for playing as they intended when they queued up.

Fhritz

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

Instead, make kills count towards score.

Most of us don't want to play chaosball, or domination or whatever.

We want to play TDM.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and that run around doing objectives.

No, thanks.

Instead, go play cyro.

Most of us don't want to play with fools who just care about kills.

We want to play battleground

Make kill count less (in non -DM game), then player will stop ruining someone else game for their own pleasure. The dumb player who just care about pure pvp will go back into cyrodill or anything he wants, and the one who actually play battleground the way it should be will be in a team where everyone think the same.

---

Nah, seriously. Battlegrounds are here dor making some diversity in pvp, with fun gamemode and different objective. Sure, you may want small scale pvp, but you also need to follow the rule of the game ! If you don't like any of the battleground gamemode (exept DM) then don't play it !

Marcus_Aurelius

Jaraal wrote: »

It's ZOS' fault for making people play modes they don't want to play. Don't blame the players for playing as they intended when they queued up.

I agree, ZoS should let us choose whath we want to play.
But people should show respect to others who enjoy different thing.

Jaraal

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

It's ZOS' fault for making people play modes they don't want to play. Don't blame the players for playing as they intended when they queued up.

I agree, ZoS should let us choose whath we want to play.
But people should show respect to others who enjoy different thing.

How? By dropping from a match mode they didn't want to play? That penalizes not only the person who was waiting in the queue and now has to wait even longer to requeue, but it also penalizes the team of now 3 players as well.

Lady_Galadhiel

I find it hilarious when people just go to kill other players in BG matches what aren't DM's.
I mean in Bg's you have plenty of chances to kill others at almost all times by just completing the objective and game mode and contributing towards the win.

relentless_turnip

I have never understood why people don't want to PvP in PvP. I will play the objective to some degree, but I queue for a BG to fight other players and have zero time for my team mates that complain about it. In the same way I have no time for people that complain about getting killed in IC. You are in a PvP zone the over arching theme shouldn't come as a suprise to you.

In fact I think zos should do more to incentives PvP in the games that reward avoiding it. Like domination should have only have 2 flags so you have to fight for them. Otherwise the team that avoids PvP usually wins.

Brrrofski

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and the cowards that go 0 0 0 and just run around doing objectives.

You know that "PvP" doesn't mean player killing players, right?

Well when players finish a game without a zero kill, what's the point?

Joining a game to hold sprint for 5 minutes.

That isn't PvP.

And yeh, it does give a clear indication of my mentality. I want to fight people, not run around the outside of the map with a ball.

Brrrofski

Fhritz wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

Instead, make kills count towards score.

Most of us don't want to play chaosball, or domination or whatever.

We want to play TDM.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and the cowards that go 0 0 0 and just run around doing objectives.

No, thanks.

Instead, go play cyro.

Most of us don't want to play with fools who just care about kills.

We want to play battleground

Make kill count less (in non -DM game), then player will stop ruining someone else game for their own pleasure. The dumb player who just care about pure pvp will go back into cyrodill or anything he wants, and the one who actually play battleground the way it should be will be in a team where everyone think the same.

---

Nah, seriously. Battlegrounds are here dor making some diversity in pvp, with fun gamemode and different objective. Sure, you may want small scale pvp, but you also need to follow the rule of the game ! If you don't like any of the battleground gamemode (exept DM) then don't play it !

Nah, I'll still just kill people.

I don't care about winning or losing a BG.

I care about fighting people.

Guess I'll continue being a hindrance to my team. Or they could makes kills also count towards score. Pleases everyone.

ThePedge

or just give PvP players a Deathmatch queue

Let the roleplayers play Ring a Ring o' Rosie capturing flags without moaning that in PLAYER vs PLAYER gamemode, that some players want to fight other players.

Mythreindeer

ThePedge wrote: »

or just give PvP players a Deathmatch queue

Let the roleplayers play Ring a Ring o' Rosie capturing flags without moaning that in PLAYER vs PLAYER gamemode, that some players want to fight other players.

Yep, pretty much this.

seldomseenkd

Both boxing and chess are PvP activities.

Marcus_Aurelius

People doing objectives are not roleplayer, are people playing Player vS Player mode in the intended way.
Please ZoS give a DM only queue so the bad boys can go there and us scaried guy can play our silly BG modes.

Bad boys feel they are so good for killing people doing other things, but I've seen some of you in Cyro and you are not that scary when other people are there to fight you.

zvavi

Make kills grant bonus to objective captures (double score from objective you are on for the next 10 seconds, on second kill it is prolonged) to give initiative for those running around and getting kills to go for objectives. (And draw more fire power towards them).

nukk3r

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

Instead, make kills count towards score.

Most of us don't want to play chaosball, or domination or whatever.

We want to play TDM.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and that run around doing objectives.

Why are TDM fans are so upset about being outsmarted and outmaneuvered in tactical modes? There are different games with different rulesets and you guys are trying to bruteforce your way through all of them. One of the best feelings you can get in BGs is when your team snatches two relics while other teams fight between their bases.

Brrrofski wrote: »

I don't care about winning or losing a BG.

I care about fighting people.

So you play a team-based mode and sabotage the team effort by following your own agenda even if it means the team will lose? Why don't you just 1vX/smallscale in cyro? The place is full of people willing to just fight with nothing at stake.

BloodMagicLord

marshill88 wrote: »

More often than I wish, in BG matches such as Chaosball or domination, there are people on my team who only care about their kill counts. Of course, this generally causes the entire team to lose. Would it be a good idea to make less incentive for playing like this?

A much better way to solve this would be to once again make it so you can choose which game-mode you want to do. I really don't understand why they undid this.
These are players who want to play in deathmatch but are being forced into game modes that they do not like. Not everyone likes chasing around a ball or running around with a banner for 10 minutes.

Jackey

I saw a magsorc running around in Crazy King spamming Mages Fury racking up around 60 kills. It didn't really help the team at all because he was just stealing kills instead of taking flags. They lost obviously.

I think BGs needs some rework to make it more exciting and rewarding to bring in more players so they can have a separate queue for those that only want to play Death Match.

Milli_Rabbit

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

Instead, make kills count towards score.

Most of us don't want to play chaosball, or domination or whatever.

We want to play TDM.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and that run around doing objectives.

Speak for yourself. I love the other game modes. Pvp needs to be more than just killing more players.

bmnoble

Just disable the kill counter in the matches that focus on objectives instead of kills.

That or make it so kills count towards the score if they kill someone within a certain proximity to the capture flags, near the relic or chaos ball, that might at least herd them towards the objectives.

Pauwer

Yea, i also like the minigames on bgs. And i love pvp. I think if queue for deathmatch is added, the other ones will take ages to fill up. I think most would choose to play dm. I myself enjoy the other games too, so... i dunno. Some folks will only focus on killing, some want to play the objective. Kill the killers first i guess

Viewsfrom6ix

Domination in Arcane University is the worst. It is the biggest BG map and it even have different levels. I've had so many games where the winning team's first player went 0-0-0 because all they did was run around in circles avoiding all fights and stand still on a flag for a few seconds. Where is the fun in that?

At least remove the big maps for Crazy King and Domination.

Andre_Noir

Fhritz wrote: »

No, thanks.

Instead, go play cyro.

Cyro is the MOST non oriented for kills PVP mode

Jierdanit

nukk3r wrote: »

Why are TDM fans are so upset about being outsmarted and outmaneuvered in tactical modes? There are different games with different rulesets and you guys are trying to bruteforce your way through all of them. One of the best feelings you can get in BGs is when your team snatches two relics while other teams fight between their bases.

What exactly about the situation you described is outsmarting?

The only thing that is is instead of actually fighting other players (like you are kind of supposed to in PvP), your team decides to run around the enemies who are fighting each other, to not take part in the PvP part of the BG.

That doesnt show that you outsmarted anyone, but just that those gamemodes are so badly designed that the teams who engage in the least amount of fighting are usually going to win those PvP modes.

nukk3r wrote: »

So you play a team-based mode and sabotage the team effort by following your own agenda even if it means the team will lose? Why don't you just 1vX/smallscale in cyro? The place is full of people willing to just fight with nothing at stake.

First of all, no one is really sabotaging their team, as them fighting the enemies instead of "playing the objective" is not actually hurting the team, but just doesnt gain them points.

And a big reason why people dont just go into Cyro instead might be that they actually want to have more than 3 FPS while fighting

Starlight_Whisper

Brrrofski wrote: »

No thanks.

Instead, make kills count towards score.

Most of us don't want to play chaosball, or domination or whatever.

We want to play TDM.

The other modes all encourage avoiding PvP. They're dumb.

Make kills count towards score, then both players can contribute. The ones that like fighting, and that run around doing objectives.

Pvp isn't just killing. The other modes take more engaging experience for player vs player

Ninrod86

Op is the kind of person that leaves his teamates on team fight to die so he can chase flags and stuff.

FFS just put deathmatch que back plz. I hate with passion those flag bgs and I will always focus on kills instead of objectives.

Sylosi

Deathmatch is generally the most one dimensional, most badly balanced, lowest skilled type of PvP in games, which is why most games go with some sort of objective mode to up the skill cap through more teamwork / communication, tactics, map awareness, rotations, etc beyond simply what the typical deathmatch teamfight offers.

The problem with ESO's battlegrounds is they are appalling badly designed, not least because they are based on 3 teams, so its way too easy for players or even a whole team to run objectives whilst other players / teams are engaged.

They should have simply gone for a 2 team design and one game mode that does a decent job of forcing fights, objective play and offers different types of fights / play, Conquest for example.

Reverb

Fighting and killing is the incentive. People who do BG for actual PVP don’t care about objectives or points, they are there to fight. Since they removed the Death Matcj queue, every game is now a death match, objectives be damned.

I hear so many complaints from friends about a great match they were in with well balanced teams and fun fights, completely ruined by someone who ran all the relics and ruined everyone’s fun by ending the match. From their point of view, it’s selfish to put the objectives ahead of team play.

StaticWave

There are 3 categories of kill-count-focused players in BG:

1) The ones that try to steal kills from other teams with execute abilities
2) The ones that run into 2 teams and die multiple times
3) The ones that carefully pick their battle and either disrupt an entire team or protect their teammates who are doing objectives

You see, there are a lot of players who fall in category 1 or 2, and those are usually useless to a team. But category 3, now that is useful. Players in category 3 don’t care about game objective and will still focus on kills, but they will help their teammates who are doing objectives. I’m a category 3 player, and I will often go to the other team and create a path. This basically means I will camp the enemy team’s base and take out any defender for my team to capture the relic, or I will clear out flags so my team can safely capture them. I’m fully focusing on kills, but I also do it in a way that helps my team.

Yet, I sometimes still get flamed when we lose. Why? It isn’t my problem that objective-focused players fail to capitalize on the kills that I made. Quite often I see players who flame me for not playing objectives, but go 2-10 in K/D. Meanwhile I’m 15-1 and still effectively doing my job as a space creator in the team.

There is a balance between killing only and objective only. Players who mindlessly chase after kills are useless for their team. Players who are mindlessly throwing themselves at defended objectives are also useless for their team. The true balance is when you play for objectives, but also give other teams a run for their life.