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Eastmarch Continuity Error: how Skald-King Joruun shatters this region's story (E. Pact spoilers)
Treshcore
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Hello there!
A few days ago, I decided to check UESP page about Eastmarch and found out that parts of this region's story quest are not connected as they should be. Quests related to Windhelm and Fort Amol are shown completely torn in there, meaning that you can skip Windhelm, go to Fort Amol and start to complete a huge storyline there instead of starting in a big city. Most regions in TESO are ok with it and even have some dialogue variants to note that you have already dealt with the main antagonist of the region (in Deshaan, for example, if you visited Shad Astula after killing Vox).
However, there was a problem with one character: Joruun the Scald-King who appears in both Windhelm and Fort Amol. You see, Joruun is a character who gets injured during one of the quests in Fort Amol. In theory, Joruun could appear nearly dead and more than alive just because story quests are not dependent on each other.
I decided to test it. I made a testing character, skipped everything possible and came directly to Eastmarch.
Upon arrival on Windhelm, I took the first story quest in this city, "Shadows Over Windhelm". However, I didn't completed it at this time: instead, I ran to Fort Amol (taking a "filler" story quest about Fort Morvunskar on the way which is not really important). After arrival to Fort Amol, I took a story quest there which is called "Sleeping on the Job". I completed it, completed "The Pride of a Prince". Then "The War Council" started.
And there starts the interesting part. At the end of this quest we find King Joruun in a very bad condition - poisoned and nearly dead. This quest is followed by "Lifeline" - a quest where we do everything possible to save him. However, at this moment I decided to go to Windhelm again. I completed "Shadows Over Windhelm", "The Konunleikar", "Windhelm's Champion" and finally got to "One Victor, One King" - the quest where we are supposed to meet King Joruun for the first time. And this is where this screenshot was taken.
Why it's important... Well, I can't say that this is really important for the players who go through storyline like it's intended to be walked through. However, sometimes I had thoughts to leave the intended order of quests and start exploring the world by my own. And even though I've never abandoned King Joruun after he gets poisoned (because I play in role-play style), I still think that his assassination attempt in Windhelm feels more logical in the beginning of Eastmarch storyline.
Bethesda, if you read this. Please, fix this. It's easy to do: just make quest "Sleeping on the Job" unavailable if player haven't completed "One Victor, One King". Also, please, check what you have done with The Rift storyline (for it's very connected to Eastmarch characters like, again, King Joruun)... and the whole game, I guess. For example, Alexandra Conele from Stonefalls can appear in the end of the quest "Restoring Order" even after her death in "Coral Heart". Also, I think that Queen Ayrenn and High King Emeric may share the same problems.
For the people who read this. I ask you to support my request and pay attention to quest continuity errors too. TESO doesn't suffer from it, but when some issues occur, they can hurt the perception of the game.
A few days ago, I decided to check UESP page about Eastmarch and found out that parts of this region's story quest are not connected as they should be. Quests related to Windhelm and Fort Amol are shown completely torn in there, meaning that you can skip Windhelm, go to Fort Amol and start to complete a huge storyline there instead of starting in a big city. Most regions in TESO are ok with it and even have some dialogue variants to note that you have already dealt with the main antagonist of the region (in Deshaan, for example, if you visited Shad Astula after killing Vox).
However, there was a problem with one character: Joruun the Scald-King who appears in both Windhelm and Fort Amol. You see, Joruun is a character who gets injured during one of the quests in Fort Amol. In theory, Joruun could appear nearly dead and more than alive just because story quests are not dependent on each other.
I decided to test it. I made a testing character, skipped everything possible and came directly to Eastmarch.
Upon arrival on Windhelm, I took the first story quest in this city, "Shadows Over Windhelm". However, I didn't completed it at this time: instead, I ran to Fort Amol (taking a "filler" story quest about Fort Morvunskar on the way which is not really important). After arrival to Fort Amol, I took a story quest there which is called "Sleeping on the Job". I completed it, completed "The Pride of a Prince". Then "The War Council" started.
And there starts the interesting part. At the end of this quest we find King Joruun in a very bad condition - poisoned and nearly dead. This quest is followed by "Lifeline" - a quest where we do everything possible to save him. However, at this moment I decided to go to Windhelm again. I completed "Shadows Over Windhelm", "The Konunleikar", "Windhelm's Champion" and finally got to "One Victor, One King" - the quest where we are supposed to meet King Joruun for the first time. And this is where this screenshot was taken.
So, I saw poisoned King Joruun with my own eyes in Fort Amol, have a quest to save him... but at this time he's standing right behind the menu feeling alive.
Why it's important... Well, I can't say that this is really important for the players who go through storyline like it's intended to be walked through. However, sometimes I had thoughts to leave the intended order of quests and start exploring the world by my own. And even though I've never abandoned King Joruun after he gets poisoned (because I play in role-play style), I still think that his assassination attempt in Windhelm feels more logical in the beginning of Eastmarch storyline.
Bethesda, if you read this. Please, fix this. It's easy to do: just make quest "Sleeping on the Job" unavailable if player haven't completed "One Victor, One King". Also, please, check what you have done with The Rift storyline (for it's very connected to Eastmarch characters like, again, King Joruun)... and the whole game, I guess. For example, Alexandra Conele from Stonefalls can appear in the end of the quest "Restoring Order" even after her death in "Coral Heart". Also, I think that Queen Ayrenn and High King Emeric may share the same problems.
For the people who read this. I ask you to support my request and pay attention to quest continuity errors too. TESO doesn't suffer from it, but when some issues occur, they can hurt the perception of the game.
Even though TESO is a great game, it suffers from continuity issues that may hurt narrative experience and confuse lore-caring players. If we want TESO to be a decent exemplar in The Elder Scrolls series, these problems need to be fixed. Please, acknowledge with this information more in this thread. Thank you.
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Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Definitely agree. You might like this thread I made years ago which goes through all the base-game continuity errors: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/306039/cadwells-almanac-and-the-alliance-storyUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The AD questline is even worse if you do the zones out of order, because NPCs actually die (and stay dead, as opposed to MQ shenangians). It's kinda awkward trying to make nice to somebody I killed already.Edited by VaranisArano on 19 April 2021 20:562 -
Treshcore✭✭✭Definitely agree. You might like this thread I made years ago which goes through all the base-game continuity errors: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/306039/cadwells-almanac-and-the-alliance-story
Man, I should add your post into my bookmarks! I haven't read it yet, but I see how AMAZING your work on that was.Even though TESO is a great game, it suffers from continuity issues that may hurt narrative experience and confuse lore-caring players. If we want TESO to be a decent exemplar in The Elder Scrolls series, these problems need to be fixed. Please, acknowledge with this information more in this thread. Thank you.0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The AD questline is even worse if you do the zones out of order, because NPCs actually die (and stay dead, as opposed to MQ shenangians). It's kinda awkward trying to make nice to somebody I killed already.
Yeah I have a whole separate thread on that one
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547750/temporal-consolidation-of-the-aldmeri-dominionUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp2 -
Kandrecar✭✭My explanation to why quest are this way and why there is noting wrong with them and no need for a fix is that the events of TESO are happening during a Dragonbreak, meaning that linear time currently does not exist. They mentioned this when Summerset was released, it was kinda shown during one of the quests when you talk to Darien Gautier near the end of Summerset where he can appear to have come from the future based on how you played, and on top of that Sotha Sil explains to you in Clockwork City that you are a "Prisoner" and are not strictly bound by natural laws like everybody else and can make up your own destiny as you choose, while everybody else, even the living gods, have no choise in where to be and what to do.0 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
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Yesterday I spoke with the old Green Lady at Khenarthi's Roost. I've already completed the AD storyline lmao.VaranisArano wrote: »The AD questline is even worse if you do the zones out of order, because NPCs actually die (and stay dead, as opposed to MQ shenangians). It's kinda awkward trying to make nice to somebody I killed already.
Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr0 -
DawnsLight65✭✭✭
Yesterday I spoke with the old Green Lady at Khenarthi's Roost. I've already completed the AD storyline lmao.VaranisArano wrote: »The AD questline is even worse if you do the zones out of order, because NPCs actually die (and stay dead, as opposed to MQ shenangians). It's kinda awkward trying to make nice to somebody I killed already.
Yeah, I did the Grahtwood main quest and then went to Khenarthi's roost. I was totally confused for a time cause they werent MY Silvenar and Green Lady!Ra'avi Ahjonihr Khajit Stamblade, Level 1500Master ThiefCrafter and ExplorerHero of the Dominion, Pact, and CovenantMember of the DragonguardFriend to Razum-darFavored of Azura'It does not matter to M'aiq how strong or smart one is. It only matters what one can do.' -M'aiq the Liar0