Feb 15 Cyrodiil Test Details

goldenarcher1

Gotta say this feels like the sledgehammer approach disabling all proc sets for that amount of time.

VaranisArano

I remain befuddled by ZOS' penchant for sweeping meta changes. I mean, I understand the theory behind horizontal progression and keeping players engaged by making big changes so the game feels different *new* and *exciting*. However these big shifts between the DOT meta, and tank meta, and proc meta, and no-proc meta that really only amount to overcorrections to balancing concerns aren't good. They speak to a game that values preventing stagnation more than it values actual balance and solid gameplay.

So if you like the no-proc meta, just keep in mind that ZOS doesn't want the no-proc meta to stagnate any more than they let any previous meta hang around too long past its sell-by date.

And now I have the unhappy thought that since ZOS must change things regularly in order to keep PVP fresh and they've committed to limiting sets until Q3...that leaves classes and skills on the chopping block. This long-lasting no-proc meta may be a prime case of "Be careful what we wish for."

ZarkingFrued

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

This is extremely upsetting. It's been fun for a change, but to leave 3 months of the majority of the game's sets unusable is frustrating as there is little diversity.

Not sure why we can't have a dedciated single campaign for this if this isn't for testing purposes. We have 2 CP campaigns.

The classes are diverse, and proc sets created an environment with no diversity. Everyone ran the same proc sets and it was boring and toxic

StaticWave

People bringing up build diversity as if the same 6 proc sets weren't dominating the meta, or the same 6 stat sets weren't dominating the meta before... As long as a meta exists there is no build diversity, its a sad truth.

LennytheThird

So why can't there just be a server without proc sets to keep those happy who want that silliness and one with proc sets?

JusticeSouldier

disabled, good.
but main issue were always healing and damagin procsets, not ones stat related like bloodspawn/balorg etc.
it's weird, that 7 years after eso been released, u still have no clear vision of what exact power should have different types of sets and skills.

automatic healing and automatic damaging sets should be always, always, always weaker than another ones.the more actions and mastery set require to be used...the more powerfull it should be.
single target sets should be stronger than aoe ones.
and absolutly the same with skills...

@ZOS_BrianWheeler cmn mates, start to adresss the problems, it's not that case to be solved with maul's hit like this one u done...

LadyLethalla

Irfind wrote: »

Hello my old friends Hundings and Spriggans

I wish I'd seen this post before I destroyed my Hundings gear >.<

AinSoph

Funny, it's like ZOS's idea of what a proc is was flawed in the 1st place...

Merforum

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, So what did we learn

1. the proc sets had NOTHING to do with any lag in Cyrodiil
2. this was only done to appease a handful of PVPers who incessantly like to whine about everything that kills them in PVP and NERF IT
3. those same people have been lying about how great no-proc PVP is and are now realizing that 6 months of this will be terrible
4. ZOS STOP LISTENING to a handful of loud PVPers and TRIAL Leaderboard PVEers who think they are god's gift to ESO & the world and just focus on the massive mid level player base that gives you all your money

But like I said long ago you might as well make cyrodill a place where there are no classes, no races, no skills, everyone is naked and all fights are determined by who can mash 3 buttons in a row the fastest. Your almost there....HAHAHAHAHA

JusticeSouldier

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Procs have ruined the game and ZoS is finally going to fix the issue.

they didn't said to fix this, just prolonged disabling them in cyrodiil.
instead of analyzing what is "procset" and differentiate them.
i'm not sure they going to fix this hole in combat system

WreckfulAbandon

StaticWave wrote: »

People bringing up build diversity as if the same 6 proc sets weren't dominating the meta, or the same 6 stat sets weren't dominating the meta before... As long as a meta exists there is no build diversity, its a sad truth.

The banned list has way too many sets on it. Plenty of sets that are not meta and are not overperforming would actually be viable in this kind of testing environment where the major outliers like Crimson and Vateshran are disabled, but instead they disable basically everything that does anything remotely interesting.

Alchimiste1

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

People bringing up build diversity as if the same 6 proc sets weren't dominating the meta, or the same 6 stat sets weren't dominating the meta before... As long as a meta exists there is no build diversity, its a sad truth.

The banned list has way too many sets on it. Plenty of sets that are not meta and are not overperforming would actually be viable in this kind of testing environment where the major outliers like Crimson and Vateshran are disabled, but instead they disable basically everything that does anything remotely interesting.

yes but his point is if say they allowed clever( which I would love them to do) then everyone will wear clever, so using diversity as an argument isn't very strong. Personally IM fine with these changes only wish they disabled cross healing too then it would be such a pure pvp experience especially given how damage is higher on pts

Sanctum74

Merforum wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, So what did we learn

1. the proc sets had NOTHING to do with any lag in Cyrodiil
2. this was only done to appease a handful of PVPers who incessantly like to whine about everything that kills them in PVP and NERF IT
3. those same people have been lying about how great no-proc PVP is and are now realizing that 6 months of this will be terrible
4. ZOS STOP LISTENING to a handful of loud PVPers and TRIAL Leaderboard PVEers who think they are god's gift to ESO & the world and just focus on the massive mid level player base that gives you all your money

But like I said long ago you might as well make cyrodill a place where there are no classes, no races, no skills, everyone is naked and all fights are determined by who can mash 3 buttons in a row the fastest. Your almost there....HAHAHAHAHA

A handful of pvpers? Lol every poll has shown the majority hate procs and prefer skill based combat. Guess you’re just gonna have to figure out how to press more than just 1 button.

StaticWave

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

People bringing up build diversity as if the same 6 proc sets weren't dominating the meta, or the same 6 stat sets weren't dominating the meta before... As long as a meta exists there is no build diversity, its a sad truth.

The banned list has way too many sets on it. Plenty of sets that are not meta and are not overperforming would actually be viable in this kind of testing environment where the major outliers like Crimson and Vateshran are disabled, but instead they disable basically everything that does anything remotely interesting.

The fact is there will always be some meta setups. Looking back at proc meta you could clearly see what sets were widely used by almost every PvPer (Crimson, arena weapons, syvarras, etc.) Looking back at the stat meta before that you could also see what sets were commonly used (Fury, new moon acolyte, clever alc, etc.). In fact, there will also be a meta with these 15 sets (Spriggan, Beekeeper, Endurance,etc.).

If I were to pick between a no rules environment vs a limited sets environment, I would pick the latter every time. The perception that you lose "build diversity" clouds your own judgement. Diversity just does not exist in a game where 80% of the set choices are bad leaving you with only have 6-7 decent sets to use. At least in a limited set environment, skill is what truly matters apart from class imbalance.

Dr_Ganknstein

Ok so come September are you guys going to extend this "Test" period even further? This dumbed down version of Cyrodiil is boring. I need to know because I refuse to spend another dime on this game if you are going to exclude 90% of it in the main PVP zone. At least give us more sets to use is all I'm asking.

EldrathLlewain

And for those of us who just invested in mats and such for proc sets will you be refunding those, i think not, not impressed here.

HiImRex

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I think this is a great change and you guys are taking a risk here that will pay off long term in terms of balance.

Realistically in account of ESO pvp playerbase generally being fickle, overly dramatic, and difficult to please, I think 6 months is probably too long to add in a handful of new sets, but I understand the timeline is a business decision incorporating many circumstances the playerbase aren't privy too.

Having said that, I still think you guys should try and add in more sets with Q2 rather than Q3.

Most of the purely stat based DAMAGE sets are well-balanced relative to each other. The greater the conditions, downtimes, or restrictions, the higher the value.

Keep the 2pc monster set bonuses deactivated, find a way to code in specific sets, and allow sets such as automaton, war maiden, innate axiom, seventh legion, fury, clever alchemist, NMA, stuhn's, briarheart, etc. into Cyrodil and aim for Q2... would be ideal in my opinion to satisfy the most number of people with the least amount of work. Basically a "short list" of additional sets for Q2.

Then do a "long list" pass for Q3 or Q4, to consider borderline or potentially balance breaking sets such as the conditional sustain sets and defensive sets (Orgnum's Scales, Pariah, Armor Master, etc) as well as 2pc monster sets.

Oh, and definitely keep EV banned, or else the Cyro meta will be "chads who run EV" and "everyone else who feels a need to be special but is really just gimping themselves for no good reason".

silvereyes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3.

Yikes! That seems like a pretty immense change to drop on people out of the blue, especially coinciding with The Great CP 2.0 Grind of 2021. I don't PvP much, but I gotta say, I feel bad for y'all.

Ringod123

Wow, just when we thought you guys literally couldn't make a worse decision than the new CP system which doubles the time needed for new players to reach parity compared to the current system, you go and do this. If I hadn't already cancelled my ESO+ sub I certainly would be now.
Big thumbs down from me, absolutely shocking decision which just shows the teams utter lack of respect for PvP players.

UntouchableHunter

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

Literally what is the point in selling dlc if all of the sets available are not gonna be useable in cyrodiil? Every decision you make is honestly so bad It's just funny at this point.

Not plus and no dlc for me anymore. I have a hundreds of set that I can't use anymore this is ridiculous.

UntouchableHunter

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

This is extremely upsetting. It's been fun for a change, but to leave 3 months of the majority of the game's sets unusable is frustrating as there is little diversity.

Not sure why we can't have a dedciated single campaign for this if this isn't for testing purposes. We have 2 CP campaigns.

I don't understand why ZOS just don't make a no proc set campaign, give us the option

Demonhunter

So let me get this straight , there is proc sets in imperial city but not in Cyrodil . SO why is there no constant lag in imperial city and there is in Cyrodil with both being populated to the max ? Cause imp city is instanced and maybe the anwser is so obvious all along, make Cyrodil more instanced and bring in new servers.

So people like playing with no proc sets in Cyrodil but not imperial city? I fail to see the logic, but anyways... Say Zenimax never implements proc sets in Cyrodil even after fall 2021. For me the question is not whether I can adapt playing with no proc sets in Cyro or not, how is Zenimax going to balance the proc sets vs no proc sets? ... Right now the proc sets overwhelmingly outnumber the no proc sets.

Are we to assume that if they never bring back proc sets in Cyro, future sets in expansions will always be stat based only? So keep the same number of proc sets currently for imp city and just start populating the no proc sets for Cyro in the future?

** Note : Most MMORPG's have proc sets btw.

MasterSpatula

rbfrgsp wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

This is going to make a lot of people very happy and a lot of people very upset.

I'm in the happy category, but I think a proc campaign and a no-proc campaign is a better way to do this.

This a lot of happy people - why aren't they playing? PC EU has been deserted this week. When volendrung spawned today at early evening primetime, it drew a 20v20 fight. That was it. And that was the biggest battle of the day. The zone has become a ghost town due to this test and six months of it will kill the game format.

I can't answer your question, since I never saw the problem. There was a queue every single time I entered Cyrodiil in the last three weeks.

--

Looking at this thread is downright dismaying. It makes sense that when this test went live, there were three threads on the front page at once full of people raving about how much they loved it with without much disagreement--the people who didn't like it had little to say on the matter. And it also makes sense that now that it's long-term, this thread is full of complaints from people who hate the change. The stakes changed, and so which faction is vocal has changed.

What doesn't make a lick of sense is the latter group just pretending the former group doesn't even exist and wasn't wildly proclaiming their enjoyment of the test. And what also makes no sense is Gina saying that lag actually increased during the test because of the large number of players in Cyrodiil and people cherry-picking that statement to claim that no-proc caused lag and therefore shouldn't go forward.... and also no one liked it. somehow.

Come on, we can disagree but still be better than this.

WreckfulAbandon

StaticWave wrote: »

The fact is there will always be some meta setups. Looking back at proc meta you could clearly see what sets were widely used by almost every PvPer (Crimson, arena weapons, syvarras, etc.) Looking back at the stat meta before that you could also see what sets were commonly used (Fury, new moon acolyte, clever alc, etc.). In fact, there will also be a meta with these 15 sets (Spriggan, Beekeeper, Endurance,etc.).

If I were to pick between a no rules environment vs a limited sets environment, I would pick the latter every time. The perception that you lose "build diversity" clouds your own judgement. Diversity just does not exist in a game where 80% of the set choices are bad leaving you with only have 6-7 decent sets to use. At least in a limited set environment, skill is what truly matters apart from class imbalance.

You're not wrong but I still think it's insane that sets like Automaton, Willow's Path, and Innate Axiom are going to be put in the same category as more egregious, actual proc sets. There's gotta be a different choice other than the 2 extremes presented.

Roztlin45

This has to be one of the worst moves in a mmo, ever. Dumping on years of peoples.work to farm and upgrade sets that can only be used realistically in pvp. All for a few people that would.not be satisfied not matter what you do. By the way all the constant test and nerfing is what is know as you don't have a plan and go from one knee jerk to the next. You can not always go by public opinion. Set a standard and stick to it. Otherwise it looks.like you don't know what your doing!

mmolegends44

this game fell off when they got rid of the meteor animation years ago zos you guys are LIT all these years and changes you guys made to pvp you might as well turn cyrodiil into tag have everyone running after each other no weapons no gear screw it

HomelessKoala

@ZOS_GinaBruno if your all truly set on making these changes permanent please at least make a seperate “no-proc” campaign for it. Don’t go and ruin Grayhost for players that have been playing for years. Myself and my guild won’t be entering cyrodiil while you have this blanket ban on and if it lasts longer than Q3 we will be moving to another game

Vetixio

The no procs has been very popular with people including myself and a lot of old players/people who quit have come back to the game as no procs makes the game significantly more balanced. Imagine having to use skills in PvP to do damage and heal so many people have got used to their armor doing it for them. Plus they are going to change the coding of gear such as Seducer to work in Cyro, so there will be more build diversity soon!

Katahdin

this is hilarious

People have been saying for years "ZoS separate out PVE and PVP"
"ZOS proc sets are ruining Cyrodiil", I shouldnt be killed by underwear"

Yes A LOT of people said in Cyro and on the forums that the game play was more fun without the stupid proc sets

So they actually decide to make some separation with how PVP and PVE work and they remove proc sets and say there is more changes to come in Q3 and people STILL complain.

IMO
We dont have 100K troll Harbinger necros any more - stupidest set they ever put in the game
People actually have to use SKILLS to fight and not light attack and wait for your underwear to kill your opponents
Ball groups actually DIE for a change

I like it

Sorcs and wardens are a tad too strong comparatively but they could bring other characters up to par

I think we are going to see a lot of sets reworked

Dr_Ganknstein

Vetixio wrote: »

I think it is a good idea, imagine having to use skills in PvP to do damage and heal so many people have got used to their armor doing it for them. Plus they are going to change the coding of gear such as Seducer to work in Cyro, so there will be more build diversity soon!

Imagine paying for a game and all of its DLC and expansions only to suddenly not be able to use 90% of it in the main PVP zone. You guys are lumping every set with a proc condition into one basket. They basically excluded nearly every DLC set including the one that is about to be released and then some; lol. Build creativity is gone with the limited sets we have to choose from.