Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Here we go again.
Let me start of with saying you do make a great point in the first part. Zos is gonna have to find a way to make it known to people how the new healing works in cyro. A lot of casuals dont bother forum unless they wanna complain, they dont bother patch notes etc so I agree with you on that one. Unless zos announces these new changes well this can and probably will be a highly confusing and frustrating part of cyrodiil for new(er)/casual players.
Having said that, [snip]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
2. Are you really pvping if ALL you want to/can do is just heal? What if no one of your faction is there and the enemy is sieging a keep. What is your course of action then? Heal the guards? Find a cozy corner to stealth in? Its funny to me how you guys claim to be so passionate about pvp but never seem to even consider switching to an actual pvp build Makes me think most just heal because it enables you to participate at the lowest possible level from relative safety. I could be wrong though
3. Stop always using the "play as you want" argument when you cant get your way. Youre free to play as you want I guess yeah, but in order to effectively play the game youre forced to play by a specific set of rules. This applies for pve content as it does for pvp. You guys just wanna live, work and die on easy street dont you. The cyro casual running 7 divines wasnt a meme for nothing. Yall wanted to play how you wanted and got absolutely demolished. Instead of learning and adapting what actually happened? The casual cried and smothering momma zos came in full cater mode and gave everyone free crit resist because god forbid one has to actually learn how the game works.
4. I again agree with you on the technical side of things. Im pretty sure that if zos considered the current state of cyro as a priority problem, if they even consider it a problem at all that is, theyd found a proper fix for it already. You cant tell me a company this big is this incompetent. So I dont know what theyre doing over there. Honestly I just dont believe they want to spend to money so were stuck with these types of improvements. But improvements none the less (according to console testimonials) I do hope zos doesnt stop here and uses these changes as stepping stones to hopefully eventually come up with a more suitable solution.
5. So yeah it sucks you cant play how you used to be able to play. But guess what. That has been basically patch after patch for the rest of us. You cant always get everything you want buddy
Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Here we go again.
Let me start of with saying you do make a great point in the first part. Zos is gonna have to find a way to make it known to people how the new healing works in cyro. A lot of casuals dont bother forum unless they wanna complain, they dont bother patch notes etc so I agree with you on that one. Unless zos announces these new changes well this can and probably will be a highly confusing and frustrating part of cyrodiil for new(er)/casual players.
Having said that, [snip]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
2. Are you really pvping if ALL you want to/can do is just heal? What if no one of your faction is there and the enemy is sieging a keep. What is your course of action then? Heal the guards? Find a cozy corner to stealth in? Its funny to me how you guys claim to be so passionate about pvp but never seem to even consider switching to an actual pvp build Makes me think most just heal because it enables you to participate at the lowest possible level from relative safety. I could be wrong though
3. Stop always using the "play as you want" argument when you cant get your way. Youre free to play as you want I guess yeah, but in order to effectively play the game youre forced to play by a specific set of rules. This applies for pve content as it does for pvp. You guys just wanna live, work and die on easy street dont you. The cyro casual running 7 divines wasnt a meme for nothing. Yall wanted to play how you wanted and got absolutely demolished. Instead of learning and adapting what actually happened? The casual cried and smothering momma zos came in full cater mode and gave everyone free crit resist because god forbid one has to actually learn how the game works.
4. I again agree with you on the technical side of things. Im pretty sure that if zos considered the current state of cyro as a priority problem, if they even consider it a problem at all that is, theyd found a proper fix for it already. You cant tell me a company this big is this incompetent. So I dont know what theyre doing over there. Honestly I just dont believe they want to spend to money so were stuck with these types of improvements. But improvements none the less (according to console testimonials) I do hope zos doesnt stop here and uses these changes as stepping stones to hopefully eventually come up with a more suitable solution.
5. So yeah it sucks you cant play how you used to be able to play. But guess what. That has been basically patch after patch for the rest of us. You cant always get everything you want buddy
I too understand why they dont want it. Im pretty sure we all doalterfenixeb17_ESO wrote: »Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Here we go again.
Let me start of with saying you do make a great point in the first part. Zos is gonna have to find a way to make it known to people how the new healing works in cyro. A lot of casuals dont bother forum unless they wanna complain, they dont bother patch notes etc so I agree with you on that one. Unless zos announces these new changes well this can and probably will be a highly confusing and frustrating part of cyrodiil for new(er)/casual players.
Having said that, [snip]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
2. Are you really pvping if ALL you want to/can do is just heal? What if no one of your faction is there and the enemy is sieging a keep. What is your course of action then? Heal the guards? Find a cozy corner to stealth in? Its funny to me how you guys claim to be so passionate about pvp but never seem to even consider switching to an actual pvp build Makes me think most just heal because it enables you to participate at the lowest possible level from relative safety. I could be wrong though
3. Stop always using the "play as you want" argument when you cant get your way. Youre free to play as you want I guess yeah, but in order to effectively play the game youre forced to play by a specific set of rules. This applies for pve content as it does for pvp. You guys just wanna live, work and die on easy street dont you. The cyro casual running 7 divines wasnt a meme for nothing. Yall wanted to play how you wanted and got absolutely demolished. Instead of learning and adapting what actually happened? The casual cried and smothering momma zos came in full cater mode and gave everyone free crit resist because god forbid one has to actually learn how the game works.
4. I again agree with you on the technical side of things. Im pretty sure that if zos considered the current state of cyro as a priority problem, if they even consider it a problem at all that is, theyd found a proper fix for it already. You cant tell me a company this big is this incompetent. So I dont know what theyre doing over there. Honestly I just dont believe they want to spend to money so were stuck with these types of improvements. But improvements none the less (according to console testimonials) I do hope zos doesnt stop here and uses these changes as stepping stones to hopefully eventually come up with a more suitable solution.
5. So yeah it sucks you cant play how you used to be able to play. But guess what. That has been basically patch after patch for the rest of us. You cant always get everything you want buddy
1. It is just that it is not settled which group is a monitory and which is not. I mean by what measure? How many actually openly supported the idea or how many left during last 2 weeks (or are still considering it)?
Solo healers are a minority in cyrodiil. You may have a point if you include the derps running around in cyro expecting to get healed by others. Ill admit that.
2. Unless you run some 1 vs X build and nobody shows up to defend then running off (or getting yourself killed) is basically everything you can do but that applies also to probably even almost every dps player too.
Exactomundooo, so why on earth would you have a group build when youre by yourself?? Thats why I cant stand the term solo healer. A solo healer by definition is useless because theres no one else but said healer to heal. You wear a group build, your activities rely solely on groups yet you dont want to group up.
3. In other games healer is expected to HEAL. Not do any damage but heal. In TESO in general (with an exception of Cyrodiil now) healer is always expected to heal again - regardless of if they are grouped or not. Also the only 3 areas where healers (and most other players too for that matter) are forced to group are trials, dungeon finder and Cyrodiil. All the rest of group content does not have such requirement
By all means brother, take your healer and hop into a veteran dungeon....by yourself....tell me how it goes. Dont get me wrong I hear what youre saying and I get it. What seems to be the issue here is people dont seem to realize the same character can fulfill different roles. My main can tank endgame content, can dd, if stamina healer was a thing it probably could do that too, it does pretty well in cyrodiil because it uses different builds for each situation. If you want to heal, you need to group up, if you want to play solo you need to get a solo build. You cant have it both. It isnt rocketscience.
4. If it is not the problem then why any testing or any changes at all? If something is not broken then do not fix it. Unless ofc ZoS sees current Cyro state as a problem.
If what is? If you mean the cross healing. The cross healing is a problem. Not only for performance sake but also simply for the gaming experience as it enables unhealthy gameplay. If you mean zos seeing current cyro (or honestly cyro the last few years) as a problem. I dont think they do, because it doesnt generate them enough money. But they have to keep up appearances, hence these bandaid solutions
5. Herę is the funny thing about those so called solo healers that supposedly are leeching as the biggest change for that kind of player currently is to either reroll i.e. sorc or start running with bow and spam arrows everywhere. Still no need for grouping really.
I dont know man, to me it only says a whole lot about that person if he thinks either being a healbot or a bowtard are the only ways to pvp. Lets get this straight, youre not forced to group up if you want to pvp. Youre forced to group up if you want to heal others.
And yes, I have stopped playing a healer. About a year ago. This change in fact is benefiting me personally, I just can understand why others may not want it.
[edited quoted post]
I think our disagreement lies in the fact that you think zos HAS to listen to you whereas I dont.Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Here we go again.
Let me start of with saying you do make a great point in the first part. Zos is gonna have to find a way to make it known to people how the new healing works in cyro. A lot of casuals dont bother forum unless they wanna complain, they dont bother patch notes etc so I agree with you on that one. Unless zos announces these new changes well this can and probably will be a highly confusing and frustrating part of cyrodiil for new(er)/casual players.
Having said that, [snip]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
2. Are you really pvping if ALL you want to/can do is just heal? What if no one of your faction is there and the enemy is sieging a keep. What is your course of action then? Heal the guards? Find a cozy corner to stealth in? Its funny to me how you guys claim to be so passionate about pvp but never seem to even consider switching to an actual pvp build Makes me think most just heal because it enables you to participate at the lowest possible level from relative safety. I could be wrong though
3. Stop always using the "play as you want" argument when you cant get your way. Youre free to play as you want I guess yeah, but in order to effectively play the game youre forced to play by a specific set of rules. This applies for pve content as it does for pvp. You guys just wanna live, work and die on easy street dont you. The cyro casual running 7 divines wasnt a meme for nothing. Yall wanted to play how you wanted and got absolutely demolished. Instead of learning and adapting what actually happened? The casual cried and smothering momma zos came in full cater mode and gave everyone free crit resist because god forbid one has to actually learn how the game works.
4. I again agree with you on the technical side of things. Im pretty sure that if zos considered the current state of cyro as a priority problem, if they even consider it a problem at all that is, theyd found a proper fix for it already. You cant tell me a company this big is this incompetent. So I dont know what theyre doing over there. Honestly I just dont believe they want to spend to money so were stuck with these types of improvements. But improvements none the less (according to console testimonials) I do hope zos doesnt stop here and uses these changes as stepping stones to hopefully eventually come up with a more suitable solution.
5. So yeah it sucks you cant play how you used to be able to play. But guess what. That has been basically patch after patch for the rest of us. You cant always get everything you want buddy
Dude, I am playing DPS at all, I was referring to my Dad. And even tho he plays a healer, his Grand Overlord templar hits like a truck and can kill. Not everyone, no build is universal, but stably hold a firm position and capable of killing not careful players. As for me - I have a normal dd build, not PvP god but capable of handling 1v1 and 1vX at times. It is not about the adaptability of the PvP build, it is about enforcing the style of playing. I don't like playing in groups, I don't like guilds bcs most of the time those are useless except for selling stuff.
I completely understand, same here
The days of early WoW when MMORPG were mostly about socialising are gone with the games becoming more widespread and popular and catering for people with less time to spend on games. I am a PhD student and I have tons of stuff to do outside of gaming and when I come home having an hour to spend on ESO PvP I do not want to think about juxtaposing the efficacy of playing solo vs playing in a group - I have a lot of DEA efficacy analyses for my research throughout the day. I want to play, and play comfortably for myself. Sometimes I do join the groups but can't say it improves my gameplay much. On the contrary - I do not like following the crown from castle to castle spending most time on traveling rather than fighting. I don't want to read witty comments in the group chat for I do not care about them. This is a combat-oriented game, not logistics simulator. Ok, I am a DPS - I can manage playing without a group. Now let's get back to my Dad who for reasons presented previously does not join groups. He can no longer perform his role as a healer outside of group and is forced to play a certain way. As for the customer treatment, this is a bad policy to "force" the customer into using a product in a certain way after having advertised it the other way. If you wonder "why would you play a MMO without willing to group up?" - well, I am a misanthrope and I feel more comfortable playing with people but without any organisation, and I do not care if this is more efficient or not, I simply like it this way. There is a reason why in MOBA premade teams obviously are the ones that smash and participate in tournaments and whatsoever but most people simply play "Quick Match" with random teammates because it is fun. Not everyone cares about efficiency, because a game is not work but leaisure.
TMI IMO but okay
As for minority argument - here I would disagree completely. The majority of the population are pugs, this change is exactly directed at minority that you are talking about. Most people are running out of groups.
Because youre a pug doesnt mean you like others having to play the game for you. This change negatively affects out of group healbots and out of group players expecting external heals. We dont know how many of them are there so im judging my conclusions on whos being the loudest and so far they have been the healers.
You like the changes - great, good for you. For me it is not good and it is ok to disagree. My point, tho, that this would just drop the playerbase. I will probably play now and then but even running my magnecro with a heal mostly for myself and then running into a 1v2 allied player and finding not being able to save him by healing before getting into the fight ruins the whole logic of what is going on. I do not like that, so probably I would just quit PvP, hence ESO altogether. My Dad will likely follow the example. So would quit some other dudes who already have mentioned their decision in similar threads. It certainly would alleviate the lags - less people = less lags. However, it will also decrease the whole Alliance war PvP experience as campaigns would run stale as people pointed out during the AoE testing when a lot of people simply stopped doing Cyro. If that is ok with you - then I am truly happy that ZOS would improve the gameplay for at least some group of players.
Thats well within your and your dads rights. As you leave im sure there are people that come back because of these changes. I am one of them. Im sorry but how can you not smell the entitlement. "Cater to my needs and my needs alone or ill leave!" Ok fine adios amigo!
Still, the biggest concern of mine regarding all those changes is that they would not change the issues with lags because the reasons are different. Even removing layered healing and buffing would be better than this mathematically as it would remove tons of cumulative calculations instead of simply limiting those calculations by imposing group healing restrictions while keeping buff mechanics cumulative at the core. This indicated that ZOS are applying spreadsheet approach instead of actually doing the proper analysis. They are not playing their own game to understand the problems. And certainly they do not care about the hardware - a simple solution of a dedicated server for PvP location only would already improve the stuff greatly, while removing the idiotic Akamai bottlenecking by simply TALKING to Akamai (I've done 3 tickets regarding lags in the past and pin-pointed the reason - ZOS were ignoring it in messages but admitted they could not help it) would surely improve the quality of connections. A few more such poor decisions and the game will turn fully PvP with some atavism PvP system.
Other than the bit dramatic end part there I fully agree
[Edited quoted post]
I think you may be missing the point here really. Those dps you are talking about will either leave pissed or reroll something more resilient. This change, as you have noticed, is aimed at more people than just haters that do not group. Will those ungrouped players change because of that? No, they will either leave or stick to their current play style, just with changed builds. Priority also will change since so far they may have even cared if they are able (even with some healer's help) kill their target or not. Now play style is already changing (there are already people playing that which can be noticed) to approach: survive and hit as many targets as possible while surrounded by group. Cross healing here just does not matter in this case that much since chances of being hit that hard are basically minimal anyway. Which from that pov makes this change just pointless as it will not in the end resolve anything while it just indeed pissed some players that very often are indeed team players tending to group up with others (yes, even formally to have a crown to follow).I too understand why they dont want it. Im pretty sure we all doalterfenixeb17_ESO wrote: »Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Here we go again.
Let me start of with saying you do make a great point in the first part. Zos is gonna have to find a way to make it known to people how the new healing works in cyro. A lot of casuals dont bother forum unless they wanna complain, they dont bother patch notes etc so I agree with you on that one. Unless zos announces these new changes well this can and probably will be a highly confusing and frustrating part of cyrodiil for new(er)/casual players.
Having said that, [snip]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
2. Are you really pvping if ALL you want to/can do is just heal? What if no one of your faction is there and the enemy is sieging a keep. What is your course of action then? Heal the guards? Find a cozy corner to stealth in? Its funny to me how you guys claim to be so passionate about pvp but never seem to even consider switching to an actual pvp build Makes me think most just heal because it enables you to participate at the lowest possible level from relative safety. I could be wrong though
3. Stop always using the "play as you want" argument when you cant get your way. Youre free to play as you want I guess yeah, but in order to effectively play the game youre forced to play by a specific set of rules. This applies for pve content as it does for pvp. You guys just wanna live, work and die on easy street dont you. The cyro casual running 7 divines wasnt a meme for nothing. Yall wanted to play how you wanted and got absolutely demolished. Instead of learning and adapting what actually happened? The casual cried and smothering momma zos came in full cater mode and gave everyone free crit resist because god forbid one has to actually learn how the game works.
4. I again agree with you on the technical side of things. Im pretty sure that if zos considered the current state of cyro as a priority problem, if they even consider it a problem at all that is, theyd found a proper fix for it already. You cant tell me a company this big is this incompetent. So I dont know what theyre doing over there. Honestly I just dont believe they want to spend to money so were stuck with these types of improvements. But improvements none the less (according to console testimonials) I do hope zos doesnt stop here and uses these changes as stepping stones to hopefully eventually come up with a more suitable solution.
5. So yeah it sucks you cant play how you used to be able to play. But guess what. That has been basically patch after patch for the rest of us. You cant always get everything you want buddy
1. It is just that it is not settled which group is a monitory and which is not. I mean by what measure? How many actually openly supported the idea or how many left during last 2 weeks (or are still considering it)?
Solo healers are a minority in cyrodiil. You may have a point if you include the derps running around in cyro expecting to get healed by others. Ill admit that.
2. Unless you run some 1 vs X build and nobody shows up to defend then running off (or getting yourself killed) is basically everything you can do but that applies also to probably even almost every dps player too.
Exactomundooo, so why on earth would you have a group build when youre by yourself?? Thats why I cant stand the term solo healer. A solo healer by definition is useless because theres no one else but said healer to heal. You wear a group build, your activities rely solely on groups yet you dont want to group up.
3. In other games healer is expected to HEAL. Not do any damage but heal. In TESO in general (with an exception of Cyrodiil now) healer is always expected to heal again - regardless of if they are grouped or not. Also the only 3 areas where healers (and most other players too for that matter) are forced to group are trials, dungeon finder and Cyrodiil. All the rest of group content does not have such requirement
By all means brother, take your healer and hop into a veteran dungeon....by yourself....tell me how it goes. Dont get me wrong I hear what youre saying and I get it. What seems to be the issue here is people dont seem to realize the same character can fulfill different roles. My main can tank endgame content, can dd, if stamina healer was a thing it probably could do that too, it does pretty well in cyrodiil because it uses different builds for each situation. If you want to heal, you need to group up, if you want to play solo you need to get a solo build. You cant have it both. It isnt rocketscience.
4. If it is not the problem then why any testing or any changes at all? If something is not broken then do not fix it. Unless ofc ZoS sees current Cyro state as a problem.
If what is? If you mean the cross healing. The cross healing is a problem. Not only for performance sake but also simply for the gaming experience as it enables unhealthy gameplay. If you mean zos seeing current cyro (or honestly cyro the last few years) as a problem. I dont think they do, because it doesnt generate them enough money. But they have to keep up appearances, hence these bandaid solutions
5. Herę is the funny thing about those so called solo healers that supposedly are leeching as the biggest change for that kind of player currently is to either reroll i.e. sorc or start running with bow and spam arrows everywhere. Still no need for grouping really.
I dont know man, to me it only says a whole lot about that person if he thinks either being a healbot or a bowtard are the only ways to pvp. Lets get this straight, youre not forced to group up if you want to pvp. Youre forced to group up if you want to heal others.
And yes, I have stopped playing a healer. About a year ago. This change in fact is benefiting me personally, I just can understand why others may not want it.
[edited quoted post]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
OR they will slot their own heals. Again its like theres a belief only dedicated healers are able to heal in this game I dont get it.alterfenixeb17_ESO wrote: »I think you may be missing the point here really. Those dps you are talking about will either leave pissed or reroll something more resilient. This change, as you have noticed, is aimed at more people than just haters that do not group. Will those ungrouped players change because of that? No, they will either leave or stick to their current play style, just with changed builds. Priority also will change since so far they may have even cared if they are able (even with some healer's help) kill their target or not. Now play style is already changing (there are already people playing that which can be noticed) to approach: survive and hit as many targets as possible while surrounded by group. Cross healing here just does not matter in this case that much since chances of being hit that hard are basically minimal anyway. Which from that pov makes this change just pointless as it will not in the end resolve anything while it just indeed pissed some players that very often are indeed team players tending to group up with others (yes, even formally to have a crown to follow).I too understand why they dont want it. Im pretty sure we all doalterfenixeb17_ESO wrote: »Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Here we go again.
Let me start of with saying you do make a great point in the first part. Zos is gonna have to find a way to make it known to people how the new healing works in cyro. A lot of casuals dont bother forum unless they wanna complain, they dont bother patch notes etc so I agree with you on that one. Unless zos announces these new changes well this can and probably will be a highly confusing and frustrating part of cyrodiil for new(er)/casual players.
Having said that, [snip]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
2. Are you really pvping if ALL you want to/can do is just heal? What if no one of your faction is there and the enemy is sieging a keep. What is your course of action then? Heal the guards? Find a cozy corner to stealth in? Its funny to me how you guys claim to be so passionate about pvp but never seem to even consider switching to an actual pvp build Makes me think most just heal because it enables you to participate at the lowest possible level from relative safety. I could be wrong though
3. Stop always using the "play as you want" argument when you cant get your way. Youre free to play as you want I guess yeah, but in order to effectively play the game youre forced to play by a specific set of rules. This applies for pve content as it does for pvp. You guys just wanna live, work and die on easy street dont you. The cyro casual running 7 divines wasnt a meme for nothing. Yall wanted to play how you wanted and got absolutely demolished. Instead of learning and adapting what actually happened? The casual cried and smothering momma zos came in full cater mode and gave everyone free crit resist because god forbid one has to actually learn how the game works.
4. I again agree with you on the technical side of things. Im pretty sure that if zos considered the current state of cyro as a priority problem, if they even consider it a problem at all that is, theyd found a proper fix for it already. You cant tell me a company this big is this incompetent. So I dont know what theyre doing over there. Honestly I just dont believe they want to spend to money so were stuck with these types of improvements. But improvements none the less (according to console testimonials) I do hope zos doesnt stop here and uses these changes as stepping stones to hopefully eventually come up with a more suitable solution.
5. So yeah it sucks you cant play how you used to be able to play. But guess what. That has been basically patch after patch for the rest of us. You cant always get everything you want buddy
1. It is just that it is not settled which group is a monitory and which is not. I mean by what measure? How many actually openly supported the idea or how many left during last 2 weeks (or are still considering it)?
Solo healers are a minority in cyrodiil. You may have a point if you include the derps running around in cyro expecting to get healed by others. Ill admit that.
2. Unless you run some 1 vs X build and nobody shows up to defend then running off (or getting yourself killed) is basically everything you can do but that applies also to probably even almost every dps player too.
Exactomundooo, so why on earth would you have a group build when youre by yourself?? Thats why I cant stand the term solo healer. A solo healer by definition is useless because theres no one else but said healer to heal. You wear a group build, your activities rely solely on groups yet you dont want to group up.
3. In other games healer is expected to HEAL. Not do any damage but heal. In TESO in general (with an exception of Cyrodiil now) healer is always expected to heal again - regardless of if they are grouped or not. Also the only 3 areas where healers (and most other players too for that matter) are forced to group are trials, dungeon finder and Cyrodiil. All the rest of group content does not have such requirement
By all means brother, take your healer and hop into a veteran dungeon....by yourself....tell me how it goes. Dont get me wrong I hear what youre saying and I get it. What seems to be the issue here is people dont seem to realize the same character can fulfill different roles. My main can tank endgame content, can dd, if stamina healer was a thing it probably could do that too, it does pretty well in cyrodiil because it uses different builds for each situation. If you want to heal, you need to group up, if you want to play solo you need to get a solo build. You cant have it both. It isnt rocketscience.
4. If it is not the problem then why any testing or any changes at all? If something is not broken then do not fix it. Unless ofc ZoS sees current Cyro state as a problem.
If what is? If you mean the cross healing. The cross healing is a problem. Not only for performance sake but also simply for the gaming experience as it enables unhealthy gameplay. If you mean zos seeing current cyro (or honestly cyro the last few years) as a problem. I dont think they do, because it doesnt generate them enough money. But they have to keep up appearances, hence these bandaid solutions
5. Herę is the funny thing about those so called solo healers that supposedly are leeching as the biggest change for that kind of player currently is to either reroll i.e. sorc or start running with bow and spam arrows everywhere. Still no need for grouping really.
I dont know man, to me it only says a whole lot about that person if he thinks either being a healbot or a bowtard are the only ways to pvp. Lets get this straight, youre not forced to group up if you want to pvp. Youre forced to group up if you want to heal others.
And yes, I have stopped playing a healer. About a year ago. This change in fact is benefiting me personally, I just can understand why others may not want it.
[edited quoted post]
Hmmmm1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
This doesn't even address the "needs of the many" though. ZoS has LITERALLY stated that it doesn't make a significant difference to the server calculations and that they're only doing it because THEY "liked the behavioural changes". If it'd actually made a significant difference and they stated as such, sure, people would still complain but more people would accept it.
Instead we get this nebulous "behavioural changes" excuse for it. What behavioural changes? We don't know, ZoS hasn't bothered to elaborate.
But we do know for sure that the change hasn't been made to make the performance of the game better.
Hmmmm
I guess everyone claiming theyve experienced better performance since the patch are a bunch of liars then because zos said that cant be possible and zos never is wrong.
Do you always believe what zos says or are you just cherrypicking the things that fit your narrative?
I mean you dont have to go far, theres even a thread on this forum where people said the game ran better for them. Check on twitch and you can find people here nd there talking about how the changes seemed to be positive for the performance.
But nah thats all a farce because momma zos said otherwise.
Why is the answer to over performing smart heals a nerf to zergs? Are those same heals not over performing in groups as well? Why aren't THEY nerfed? PVE? I just don't understand this idea that because healing is so easy in ESO, let's reserve that easy and powerful tool for groups only.
Here's a question, how do you know the healers and their zerglings weren't already grouped up? Your perception was that it's all just a mass of solo players "playing the way they want", when it was probably a mix of groups and solo players intermingling. Not every group stacks on crown.
SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »Imagine bringing more than 12Why is the answer to over performing smart heals a nerf to zergs? Are those same heals not over performing in groups as well? Why aren't THEY nerfed? PVE? I just don't understand this idea that because healing is so easy in ESO, let's reserve that easy and powerful tool for groups only.
Here's a question, how do you know the healers and their zerglings weren't already grouped up? Your perception was that it's all just a mass of solo players "playing the way they want", when it was probably a mix of groups and solo players intermingling. Not every group stacks on crown.
The problem comes from cross healing. That is what they are eliminating. It doesn't matter if healers group up. What matters is that a healer in one group can't heal somebody in a different group.
SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »Imagine bringing more than 12Why is the answer to over performing smart heals a nerf to zergs? Are those same heals not over performing in groups as well? Why aren't THEY nerfed? PVE? I just don't understand this idea that because healing is so easy in ESO, let's reserve that easy and powerful tool for groups only.
Here's a question, how do you know the healers and their zerglings weren't already grouped up? Your perception was that it's all just a mass of solo players "playing the way they want", when it was probably a mix of groups and solo players intermingling. Not every group stacks on crown.
The problem comes from cross healing. That is what they are eliminating. It doesn't matter if healers group up. What matters is that a healer in one group can't heal somebody in a different group.
Why does that matter? They're all your enemies, you fight them all, but you don't want them to work together? That makes no sense.
SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »Imagine bringing more than 12Why is the answer to over performing smart heals a nerf to zergs? Are those same heals not over performing in groups as well? Why aren't THEY nerfed? PVE? I just don't understand this idea that because healing is so easy in ESO, let's reserve that easy and powerful tool for groups only.
Here's a question, how do you know the healers and their zerglings weren't already grouped up? Your perception was that it's all just a mass of solo players "playing the way they want", when it was probably a mix of groups and solo players intermingling. Not every group stacks on crown.
The problem comes from cross healing. That is what they are eliminating. It doesn't matter if healers group up. What matters is that a healer in one group can't heal somebody in a different group.
Why does that matter? They're all your enemies, you fight them all, but you don't want them to work together? That makes no sense.
It's really bad for performance. It creates a space that encourages lazy teamwork instead of proactive and skillful teamwork. Zergs are also really strong. Prior this change the only way you could defeat a faction stack was with your own faction stack or a ballgroup.
It is also a terrible design feature for a game to have. It probably should never have made it into the game to begin with.
SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »Imagine bringing more than 12Why is the answer to over performing smart heals a nerf to zergs? Are those same heals not over performing in groups as well? Why aren't THEY nerfed? PVE? I just don't understand this idea that because healing is so easy in ESO, let's reserve that easy and powerful tool for groups only.
Here's a question, how do you know the healers and their zerglings weren't already grouped up? Your perception was that it's all just a mass of solo players "playing the way they want", when it was probably a mix of groups and solo players intermingling. Not every group stacks on crown.
The problem comes from cross healing. That is what they are eliminating. It doesn't matter if healers group up. What matters is that a healer in one group can't heal somebody in a different group.
Why does that matter? They're all your enemies, you fight them all, but you don't want them to work together? That makes no sense.
I too understand why they dont want it. Im pretty sure we all doalterfenixeb17_ESO wrote: »Terrible change as it enforces certain gameplay upon people and creates understanding walls for newbies.
Firstly, as it has been put above already, imagine being a newcomer to ESO interested in PvP. You level up healer because, say, you played a priest in WoW and like supporting. You join Cyro looking for action, teleport to keep, try to heal, and... nothing. It will take time to figure out you have to be in group to heal. Quite a discouragement for some people. If those have no interest in PvE, the game basically loses population.
Secondly, there are tons of reasons why healers or anyone else does not play in groups: being shy, just trying to casually relax after work for a short time without willing to stick to some group, willing to be flexible and choosing objectives, etc, etc. This change takes away flexibility and makes the ad of ESO "play the way you want" a hypocritical one.
Thirdly, there are many other reasons why there were lags. For two years already people have been complaining about Akamai bottlenecking (for NA especially), poor network packets routing (when Ausies get their packets routed to Asia and only then to US), etc. Were those addressed? Nope. Addressing this in tickets is similarly useless.
To illustrate the first two points - I play with my Dad who started playing on NA with me because I played here. He doesn't speak English well to consider joining group or communicating. He just plays an hour or two after job as his templar healer and seeks action here and there and certainly would not enjoy sticking to group for PvD or endless galloping over the map instead of fighting. This change literally kills the game for him because he plays only PvP. And there are many casuals like him. Will nerfing the game for these people improve performance? Surprisingly - yes, because they would simply leave, decreasing the PvP population.
Very and very sad. Real technical issues are ignored, terrible changes are implemented, only lootboxes get development while PvP is generally ignored.
Here we go again.
Let me start of with saying you do make a great point in the first part. Zos is gonna have to find a way to make it known to people how the new healing works in cyro. A lot of casuals dont bother forum unless they wanna complain, they dont bother patch notes etc so I agree with you on that one. Unless zos announces these new changes well this can and probably will be a highly confusing and frustrating part of cyrodiil for new(er)/casual players.
Having said that, [snip]
1. Never should something be implemented to cater to a minority, especially if the needs of the many outweighs the wants of that few.
2. Are you really pvping if ALL you want to/can do is just heal? What if no one of your faction is there and the enemy is sieging a keep. What is your course of action then? Heal the guards? Find a cozy corner to stealth in? Its funny to me how you guys claim to be so passionate about pvp but never seem to even consider switching to an actual pvp build Makes me think most just heal because it enables you to participate at the lowest possible level from relative safety. I could be wrong though
3. Stop always using the "play as you want" argument when you cant get your way. Youre free to play as you want I guess yeah, but in order to effectively play the game youre forced to play by a specific set of rules. This applies for pve content as it does for pvp. You guys just wanna live, work and die on easy street dont you. The cyro casual running 7 divines wasnt a meme for nothing. Yall wanted to play how you wanted and got absolutely demolished. Instead of learning and adapting what actually happened? The casual cried and smothering momma zos came in full cater mode and gave everyone free crit resist because god forbid one has to actually learn how the game works.
4. I again agree with you on the technical side of things. Im pretty sure that if zos considered the current state of cyro as a priority problem, if they even consider it a problem at all that is, theyd found a proper fix for it already. You cant tell me a company this big is this incompetent. So I dont know what theyre doing over there. Honestly I just dont believe they want to spend to money so were stuck with these types of improvements. But improvements none the less (according to console testimonials) I do hope zos doesnt stop here and uses these changes as stepping stones to hopefully eventually come up with a more suitable solution.
5. So yeah it sucks you cant play how you used to be able to play. But guess what. That has been basically patch after patch for the rest of us. You cant always get everything you want buddy
1. It is just that it is not settled which group is a monitory and which is not. I mean by what measure? How many actually openly supported the idea or how many left during last 2 weeks (or are still considering it)?
Solo healers are a minority in cyrodiil. You may have a point if you include the derps running around in cyro expecting to get healed by others. Ill admit that.
2. Unless you run some 1 vs X build and nobody shows up to defend then running off (or getting yourself killed) is basically everything you can do but that applies also to probably even almost every dps player too.
Exactomundooo, so why on earth would you have a group build when youre by yourself?? Thats why I cant stand the term solo healer. A solo healer by definition is useless because theres no one else but said healer to heal. You wear a group build, your activities rely solely on groups yet you dont want to group up.
3. In other games healer is expected to HEAL. Not do any damage but heal. In TESO in general (with an exception of Cyrodiil now) healer is always expected to heal again - regardless of if they are grouped or not. Also the only 3 areas where healers (and most other players too for that matter) are forced to group are trials, dungeon finder and Cyrodiil. All the rest of group content does not have such requirement
By all means brother, take your healer and hop into a veteran dungeon....by yourself....tell me how it goes. Dont get me wrong I hear what youre saying and I get it. What seems to be the issue here is people dont seem to realize the same character can fulfill different roles. My main can tank endgame content, can dd, if stamina healer was a thing it probably could do that too, it does pretty well in cyrodiil because it uses different builds for each situation. If you want to heal, you need to group up, if you want to play solo you need to get a solo build. You cant have it both. It isnt rocketscience.
4. If it is not the problem then why any testing or any changes at all? If something is not broken then do not fix it. Unless ofc ZoS sees current Cyro state as a problem.
If what is? If you mean the cross healing. The cross healing is a problem. Not only for performance sake but also simply for the gaming experience as it enables unhealthy gameplay. If you mean zos seeing current cyro (or honestly cyro the last few years) as a problem. I dont think they do, because it doesnt generate them enough money. But they have to keep up appearances, hence these bandaid solutions
5. Herę is the funny thing about those so called solo healers that supposedly are leeching as the biggest change for that kind of player currently is to either reroll i.e. sorc or start running with bow and spam arrows everywhere. Still no need for grouping really.
I dont know man, to me it only says a whole lot about that person if he thinks either being a healbot or a bowtard are the only ways to pvp. Lets get this straight, youre not forced to group up if you want to pvp. Youre forced to group up if you want to heal others.
And yes, I have stopped playing a healer. About a year ago. This change in fact is benefiting me personally, I just can understand why others may not want it.
[edited quoted post]
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The main reason why its a good thing is that people were constantly asking for ball group nerfs and rejoicing that the tests would 'remove ball groups' only to have them buffed by the resultant changes
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The main reason why its a good thing is that people were constantly asking for ball group nerfs and rejoicing that the tests would 'remove ball groups' only to have them buffed by the resultant changes
I don't think anyone was under the impression those changes would nerf ball groups. I've constantly been echoing why it wouldn't do anything but empower them.
Group play isnt bad. Some of the mechanics they've cemented into their survival and left untouched makes them operate with too much safety and ease though.
SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »It's really bad for performance. It creates a space that encourages lazy teamwork instead of proactive and skillful teamwork. Zergs are also really strong. Prior this change the only way you could defeat a faction stack was with your own faction stack or a ballgroup.
It is also a terrible design feature for a game to have. It probably should never have made it into the game to begin with.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The main reason why its a good thing is that people were constantly asking for ball group nerfs and rejoicing that the tests would 'remove ball groups' only to have them buffed by the resultant changes
I don't think anyone was under the impression those changes would nerf ball groups. I've constantly been echoing why it wouldn't do anything but empower them.
Group play isnt bad. Some of the mechanics they've cemented into their survival and left untouched makes them operate with too much safety and ease though.
SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »Imagine bringing more than 12Why is the answer to over performing smart heals a nerf to zergs? Are those same heals not over performing in groups as well? Why aren't THEY nerfed? PVE? I just don't understand this idea that because healing is so easy in ESO, let's reserve that easy and powerful tool for groups only.
Here's a question, how do you know the healers and their zerglings weren't already grouped up? Your perception was that it's all just a mass of solo players "playing the way they want", when it was probably a mix of groups and solo players intermingling. Not every group stacks on crown.
The problem comes from cross healing. That is what they are eliminating. It doesn't matter if healers group up. What matters is that a healer in one group can't heal somebody in a different group.
Why does that matter? They're all your enemies, you fight them all, but you don't want them to work together? That makes no sense.
It's really bad for performance. It creates a space that encourages lazy teamwork instead of proactive and skillful teamwork. Zergs are also really strong. Prior this change the only way you could defeat a faction stack was with your own faction stack or a ballgroup.
It is also a terrible design feature for a game to have. It probably should never have made it into the game to begin with.