Why so many Gamebreaking Overhauls??

Nova_J

Never have I seen a dev team that's so all over the place with their updates. I mean damn, you guys still have to fix stuff from the last major changes you made and you're adding new issues already???
I was under the impression that you guys were monitoring aoe/GC changes to help with server load and calculation. Now your overhauling the buff/debuff matrix to help fix the same issue and fix pvp and pve balance all in one go? Do you guys honestly think that is going to end well??

I understand that you are developers and we are players, and I'm not trying to tell you how to do your jobs but this just doesnt make much sense to me. Alot of the changes were to be direct nerfs to stam warden and stam necro. The changes to shalks, defile, and mending make that obvious. What I dont understand is that you not only made these changes nerf other classes that did NOT need it, but you didnt even take the opportunity to fix the classes you KNOW need help. The focus of this update SHOULDVE been reigning in stam warden and necro but also buffing its mag counterparts in pvp/pve and stam warden in pve. Why are you guys consistently biting off more than you can chew??
You've now put frost staves dps, mag dps efficiency considering you've slightly nerfed their sustain, decrease light attack damage by 10%, made their light armor spell pen passive much less potent, and adjusting all the skills to the new buff and debuff changes on your plate.

Who in their right mind decided that now was the perfect time to introduce a frost staff overhaul?? Like seriously. How about you guys take the time to look at the fact you've majorly nerfed healing to maybe.....oh I dont know, fix your severely underperforming healer trial sets. Or maybe shouldve taken another look at the fact that you buffed the skooma out of proc sets while simultaneously nerfing healing and defense by putting the cheapest source of instant 9k pen on a 1200k stam cost s&b skill?

Why the heck is frost staff changes one of your focuses right now? I understand people have wanted frost dps to be a real thing but now in my opinion just isnt the best time to do it, especially when the changes made make it even more of a support weapon than it already is. Frost staff changes, like the class changes I mentioned earlier, should be the focus of an update, not a side project you've probably devoted 2 people to complete.

You're consumer is already very hard to please, why does it seem like you guys like making your job harder? If I'm missing something please let me know, but at this point I'm thinking the devs are as lost as we are.

Gythral

[redacted due to containing facts]

Kosef

Maybe they are trying to...ah..I don't know....fix the game you lot spend so much time complaining about. Maybe they see things that we don't because they are developers and we are just forum dwellers. They could stay f it...and not fix anything. But then everyone would be crying about that. So be grateful you have a development team that is actually working on their game, and not just force feeding your crap until the next opportunity to make money off you.

I can tell a lot of people here haven't been involved with a game, where you get maybe one content patch and one good maintenance patch a year or at most twice a year. Try playing those games and see how you feel about the development team here.

It's not fanboyism either..I dislike a lot of what ZoS does..especially when it comes to the crown store, but damn stop complaining about everything.

Nova_J

Kosef wrote: »

Maybe they are trying to...ah..I don't know....fix the game you lot spend so much time complaining about. Maybe they see things that we don't because they are developers and we are just forum dwellers. They could stay f it...and not fix anything. But then everyone would be crying about that. So be grateful you have a development team that is actually working on their game, and not just force feeding your crap until the next opportunity to make money off you.

I can tell a lot of people here haven't been involved with a game, where you get maybe one content patch and one good maintenance patch a year or at most twice a year. Try playing those games and see how you feel about the development team here.

It's not fanboyism either..I dislike a lot of what ZoS does..especially when it comes to the crown store, but damn stop complaining about everything.

I'm not complaining about everything. I'm complaining about the fact that they arent allowing themselves to actually fix anything because they are bringing new issues with each massive change they bring. They arent allowing themselves time to fix their mistakes man, you dont see the problem with that??

Do you have any idea how long its gonna take them to adjust the hundreds of armor sets they recently buffed to the new buff/debuff changes? Or the fact that now many class skills will need to be looked at because they didnt adjust to align with the new changes?

What's the point of "updates" if you just keep kicking yourself in the butt everytime? I recognize the fact that they are doing something , but what they are doing and how they are going about doing it is all over the damn place. The things they are messing with wont be small or miniscule fixes. They will take lots of time and analysis. I dont want them to burnout because they were being too ambitious with their movements.

They need to have better threat analysis so they can prioritize their changes better. It makes zero sense that the frost changes is what they thought was the best to complement a buff/debuff overhaul.

Recapitated

It's obvious that class balance hinges on m/M buffs so I don't know why the latter couldn't wait until the former was changed in parallel. Didn't need to happen this patch. Pushing out admittedly unfinished changes to live is bananas.

Jaimeh

Besides the effects on the game, this roller coster of huge changes every patch I think is also very tiring on the players as well.

Rungar

failure to address the root cause.

Nova_J

Rungar wrote: »

failure to address the root cause.

They dont really finish one solution before they try another one, it makes everything so messy.

Nova_J

Jaimeh wrote: »

Besides the effects on the game, this roller coster of huge changes every patch I think is also very tiring on the players as well.

Yea, vets are starting to not even bother golding out new sets for awhile. You never know what they're going to gut anymore lol.

caperb

Because they want people who don't buff, weave, ani-cancel and adjust builds to their group members to perform as good as people who do...

Honestly, they're ruining a great game with very good combat. The first priority should have been server performance (mainly PvP) and not buffing proc sets and playing with buffs.

Edit: obviously cooldowns fits in the skillless gameplay ZOS is aiming at now, so we don't need these either. If I want to queue up the same skillbar as all the other players of my class I'll play another MMO. In the current meta players are being carried too much by gear instead of their own actions.

Elwendryll

Jaraal

Nova_J wrote: »

Why the heck is frost staff changes one of your focuses right now?

Because it's a lot easier to adjust numbers on a weapon than fix stuck in combat bugs, server malfunction, infinite leading screens, vertical progression, Cyrodill rubberbanding, etc.

Thoragaal

Nova_J wrote: »

[...] Why are you guys consistently biting off more than you can chew??
[...]

They have a roadmap for all of these changes. About a year ago (if I remember correctly) they did mention they still have "class balance changes" to do after the weapon/guild skill balancing.
These changes are something ZOS has been aware of will happen for a long time (even before the announcement of said changes).

The main problem is that they're too damn rigid with their plan. They stick to it no matter what.
"Look here Gilliam, we know you wanna buff/nerf <insert skill>, but do you remember the meeting a year ago? That's right! First we have to follow the schedule, aaaand... it says... today we're sorting water reflection! If you have time over you can look at those skills."

But yeah, it sucks that we're getting bugs upon bugs because of it.

kargen27

"How about you guys take the time to look at the fact you've majorly nerfed healing to maybe.....oh I dont know, fix your severely underperforming healer trial sets."

I wasn't aware healers were underperforming. Most complaints I see are either about wanting buffs/debuffs because of how easy it is to over heal or healers not really needed.

VoxAdActa

Nova_J wrote: »

Never have I seen a dev team that's so all over the place with their updates. I mean damn, you guys still have to fix stuff from the last major changes you made and you're adding new issues already???

I see you've never played Overwatch or League.

Nova_J

kargen27 wrote: »

"How about you guys take the time to look at the fact you've majorly nerfed healing to maybe.....oh I dont know, fix your severely underperforming healer trial sets."

I wasn't aware healers were underperforming. Most complaints I see are either about wanting buffs/debuffs because of how easy it is to over heal or healers not really needed.

@kargen27
Healers are not underperforming. But the last update made 4 man dungeon sets better than any trial healer sets. Most trial sets worn by healers are sets for dps. Think about it, how many times have you actually seen a healer run a healer trial set?

Nova_J

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Never have I seen a dev team that's so all over the place with their updates. I mean damn, you guys still have to fix stuff from the last major changes you made and you're adding new issues already???

I see you've never played Overwatch or League.

You correct lol I have not.

Gythral

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

Never have I seen a dev team that's so all over the place with their updates. I mean damn, you guys still have to fix stuff from the last major changes you made and you're adding new issues already???

I see you've never played Overwatch or League.

nor ever will



But the comparision is tlke comparing apples with deadly nightshade

oXI_Viper_IXo

Over 6 years in and they are still treating the game like it's in beta, it's really quite embarrassing.

The sheer amount of major balance and gameplay changes they've done over the years and back and forth with buffs and nerfs (DoT changes for example) give the impression that they are severely indecisive and incompetent.

The constant need to keep making major changes to keep the game fresh or whatever feels like desperation and gives players change fatigue. At a certain point it's nice to have a bit of stability, but I fear that day will never come in ESO.

Brovah

Maybe all of these changes were just to keep the crowd busy. Microsoft was already in the picture, so they didn't want to invest in their game.. it's still a business...

Marcus_Thracius

Hey here is for Microsoft to buy new Eu servers

BigBragg

In Elder Spreadsheets Online, the devs like to show the bosses just how much they have done. Sadly, sometimes doing a lot of work doesn't mean doing the right work.

Who knows perhaps things will shift in the future. “I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.” ― Bill Gates

Nova_J

Thoragaal wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

[...] Why are you guys consistently biting off more than you can chew??
[...]

They have a roadmap for all of these changes. About a year ago (if I remember correctly) they did mention they still have "class balance changes" to do after the weapon/guild skill balancing.
These changes are something ZOS has been aware of will happen for a long time (even before the announcement of said changes).

The main problem is that they're too damn rigid with their plan. They stick to it no matter what.
"Look here Gilliam, we know you wanna buff/nerf <insert skill>, but do you remember the meeting a year ago? That's right! First we have to follow the schedule, aaaand... it says... today we're sorting water reflection! If you have time over you can look at those skills."

But yeah, it sucks that we're getting bugs upon bugs because of it.

So this roadmap they're following doesnt allow for much flexibility? Lol so they're just dealing with unexpected outcomes on the fly? Wow.

BleedMe_AnOcean

Observation:

People in the forum when a tweaks give them a significant advantage over others: "omg stop whining and learn to play it's fine and works as intended"

People in the forum when those tweaks are rolled back for balance: "OMG ZOS BROKE THE GAME!!!!"

To be fair, though, it happens in every MMO.

NeillMcAttack

This whole thread is a complete hoard of pure waffling from players that don’t understand the imbalances and steps needed to address them. The m/M system was a joke to the point that diversity in PvP and Trials was so obviously weighted towards simply acquiring and rotating these buffs making every situation feel the same. If players want diversity, class identity, and choice of play style. They need to understand that a baseline to balance around is required. This game and it’s systems are very complex and will require patching over multiple large updates, as they have mentioned numerous times.

Any time a player speaks about balance through nothing but buffs, I tune out, because that individual knows nothing about balance.

Nova_J

BleedMe_AnOcean wrote: »

Observation:

People in the forum when a tweaks give them a significant advantage over others: "omg stop whining and learn to play it's fine and works as intended"

People in the forum when those tweaks are rolled back for balance: "OMG ZOS BROKE THE GAME!!!!"

To be fair, though, it happens in every MMO.

......I dont see how that applies to anything I wrote in my thread.

Jaraal

Nova_J wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Nova_J wrote: »

[...] Why are you guys consistently biting off more than you can chew??
[...]

They have a roadmap for all of these changes. About a year ago (if I remember correctly) they did mention they still have "class balance changes" to do after the weapon/guild skill balancing.
These changes are something ZOS has been aware of will happen for a long time (even before the announcement of said changes).

The main problem is that they're too damn rigid with their plan. They stick to it no matter what.
"Look here Gilliam, we know you wanna buff/nerf <insert skill>, but do you remember the meeting a year ago? That's right! First we have to follow the schedule, aaaand... it says... today we're sorting water reflection! If you have time over you can look at those skills."

But yeah, it sucks that we're getting bugs upon bugs because of it.

So this roadmap they're following doesnt allow for much flexibility? Lol so they're just dealing with unexpected outcomes on the fly? Wow.

They're flexible enough to make a huge change, then a couple of weeks later roll it back and make a big jump in the other direction. The yo yo balancing is tiring to the player base, for sure.

They make changes on test, ask for feedback, and then 90% of the time completely ignore said feedback and do whatever they were planning to do all along. The wild changes certainly don't instill confidence in competence. The number of players bailing out right now is telling.

Jaraal

They keep talking about something called "standards", but I'm not convinced that they actually know what the standards should be. If they did, they would have standardized the whole thing at once and gotten it over with, instead of dragging it out and making us feel the pain for years. We should have had the opportunity to adjust to the plan a long time ago, rather than dealing with the constant uncertainty they seem to enjoy putting us through.

Raideen

The greatest choice I ever made in ESO, was never to get heavily involved in PVP. Others games do it much better and for less RL money.