Has The Elder Scrolls Online become a cash cow for ZOS?

dhboy123

Incase you need a quick run down in business basics, a cash cow is a product that offers a steady stream of income with very little maintenance. So for a long amount of time the game is gathering a larger income than it is outputting which is great for companies that are looking to progress into other streams of income or products that are coming to an end of their life cycle.

I've come to this conclusion as having been back playing for the last 3 months (played 2015-2018) I've noticed that the developer to player interaction almost seems to be non existent. There are hundreds if not thousands of threads asking for changes or even just asking for a simple answer that seem to go ignored time and time again (ironic that im writing a thread about it but what else can be done to get a point across?)

There also seems to be AN AMAZING amount of product placement and promotion going towards crown crates, these serve no purpose whatsoever in terms of game progression but are a quick cash grab for any developer. What astounded me the most is that there has been a major problem with fencing for PS4/XBOX users that has been going on for weeks that has been left broken yet ZOS will happily push out an update on crown crates.

I myself enjoy this game immensely but after only being back for a few months I feel that the playerbase is being somewhat ignored in terms of major issues (PVP) and things such as crown crates are just being churned out over and over again.

Just my 2 crowns.

Stx

I think the answer is an obvious yes. They add little content to the game, and add a lot of content to the crown store.

Edit: content isnt just quests and new zones. Its skins, costumes, mounts, pets, houses, etc.

That's why I pay my sub. And refuse to buy crowns and crown crates. If people keep spending thousands of dollars on crown crates nothing will ever change.

It's really sad to me that in the entire time I have played this game, every time I have seen a mount I wanted, I looked up how to get it and realised it is only available for cash, and a limited time at that.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Stx wrote: »

I think the answer is an obvious yes. They add little content to the game, and add a lot of content to the crown store.

That's why I pay my sub. And refuse to buy crowns and crown crates. If people keep spending thousands of dollars on crown crates nothing will ever change.

Little content to the game?? I think they've done really well introducing continuing content. I'm a satisfied customer.

tsaescishoeshiner

I don't think a Chapter, a DLC, and 4 dungeons every year constitutes "very little maintenance," not to mention all the cosmetics each month, which bring in a lot of business. There are also combat and balance teams. Unless you define what you mean by "very little maintenance," and can prove it, there's not much to say that ESO is a cash cow as you've defined it. Are there other examples you could give that could help?

The Crown Crates were finished and scheduled for release way before the fencing bug, so releasing a previously-scheduled, previously-developed product separately from fixing a current bug (that they're working on and say will require a big fix) doesn't really represent anything IMO.

dhboy123

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think a Chapter, a DLC, and 4 dungeons every year constitutes "very little maintenance," not to mention all the cosmetics each month, which bring in a lot of business. There are also combat and balance teams. Unless you define what you mean by "very little maintenance," and can prove it, there's not much to say that ESO is a cash cow as you've defined it. Are there other examples you could give that could help?

The Crown Crates were finished and scheduled for release way before the fencing bug, so releasing a previously-scheduled, previously-developed product separately from fixing a current bug (that they're working on and say will require a big fix) doesn't really represent anything IMO.

I think the chapter they released this year we would rather forget about honestly. But yes that really isn't much for an MMO with the amount of players that ESO currently has.

If you disregard the Chapter/DLC and dungeon releases the 'maintenance' of the game has been poorly let down the last 2 years.

Elsonso

dhboy123 wrote: »

I think the chapter they released this year we would rather forget about honestly.

Not even close.

dhboy123

Elsonso wrote: »

dhboy123 wrote: »

I think the chapter they released this year we would rather forget about honestly.

Not even close.

Judging from the majority of reviews given by reputable review companies and long term players..

Yes.

JTorus

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Little content to the game?? I think they've done really well introducing continuing content. I'm a satisfied customer.

Busy work =/= content
Recycled tropes =/= content

asuitandtyb14_ESO

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think a Chapter, a DLC, and 4 dungeons every year constitutes "very little maintenance," not to mention all the cosmetics each month, which bring in a lot of business. There are also combat and balance teams. Unless you define what you mean by "very little maintenance," and can prove it, there's not much to say that ESO is a cash cow as you've defined it. Are there other examples you could give that could help?

The Crown Crates were finished and scheduled for release way before the fencing bug, so releasing a previously-scheduled, previously-developed product separately from fixing a current bug (that they're working on and say will require a big fix) doesn't really represent anything IMO.

You mean a tiny zone, followed by a tinier zone? A zone with enough content for a few weeks, at best. Some dungeons and a raid yes, but again, much less content in comparison to other competitor's expansions.

dhboy123

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think a Chapter, a DLC, and 4 dungeons every year constitutes "very little maintenance," not to mention all the cosmetics each month, which bring in a lot of business. There are also combat and balance teams. Unless you define what you mean by "very little maintenance," and can prove it, there's not much to say that ESO is a cash cow as you've defined it. Are there other examples you could give that could help?

The Crown Crates were finished and scheduled for release way before the fencing bug, so releasing a previously-scheduled, previously-developed product separately from fixing a current bug (that they're working on and say will require a big fix) doesn't really represent anything IMO.

You mean a tiny zone, followed by a tinier zone? A zone with enough content for a few weeks, at best. Some dungeons and a raid yes, but again, much less content in comparison to other competitor's expansions.

Agreed 100%

Nemesis7884

i mean the content stream is still steady but at the same time I do think greymoor was quite lazy in some regards "more of the same" (The art design was fantastic tough).. I give them the benefit of doubt in thinking that a lot of resources are being used for rebalancing and performance upgrades...

But ZOS - for next years chapter you REALLY have to step it up, not just more of the same but better writing, better story, more innovation, less repetition...

And I'd also love to see more interesting repeatable or light pvp content like new modes etc...new ways you can use housing etc... not more ways to do the same things but other things to do...

asuitandtyb14_ESO

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i mean the content stream is still steady but at the same time I do think greymoor was quite lazy in some regards "more of the same" (The art design was fantastic tough).. I give them the benefit of doubt in thinking that a lot of resources are being used for rebalancing and performance upgrades...

But ZOS - for next years chapter you REALLY have to step it up, not just more of the same but better writing, better story, more innovation, less repetition...

And I'd also love to see more interesting repeatable or light pvp content like new modes etc...new ways you can use housing etc... not more ways to do the same things but other things to do...

They should take inspiration from GW2's meta events, or WoW's world quests. Repeatable daily events that change periodically and affect the zone in unique ways.

Faulgor

Of course. Anyone paying for ESO is really just financing the Starfield MMO (or whatever their next project is).

dhboy123

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i mean the content stream is still steady but at the same time I do think greymoor was quite lazy in some regards "more of the same" (The art design was fantastic tough).. I give them the benefit of doubt in thinking that a lot of resources are being used for rebalancing and performance upgrades...

But ZOS - for next years chapter you REALLY have to step it up, not just more of the same but better writing, better story, more innovation, less repetition...

And I'd also love to see more interesting repeatable or light pvp content like new modes etc...new ways you can use housing etc... not more ways to do the same things but other things to do...

They should take inspiration from GW2's meta events, or WoW's world quests. Repeatable daily events that change periodically and affect the zone in unique ways.

Contemplating the switch to GW2 to be honest. How is it going there?

Zer0_CooL

Yet you're all busy riding across zones on your new crown crate mount, farming mythic items from your recently bought DLC...

Nemesis7884

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

i mean the content stream is still steady but at the same time I do think greymoor was quite lazy in some regards "more of the same" (The art design was fantastic tough).. I give them the benefit of doubt in thinking that a lot of resources are being used for rebalancing and performance upgrades...

But ZOS - for next years chapter you REALLY have to step it up, not just more of the same but better writing, better story, more innovation, less repetition...

And I'd also love to see more interesting repeatable or light pvp content like new modes etc...new ways you can use housing etc... not more ways to do the same things but other things to do...

They should take inspiration from GW2's meta events, or WoW's world quests. Repeatable daily events that change periodically and affect the zone in unique ways.

gw2 does really a great job at what content and content innovation they release...they just lack the playerbase and funding to do it at a frequent pace

Id also love if eso implemented some of gw2 lighthearted pvp modes which i really enjoyed like the racing, survival game etc.

dhboy123

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Yet you're all busy riding across zones on your new crown crate mount, farming mythic items from your recently bought DLC...

U wot m8? Never bought a crown crate in my life, got Greymoor full expansion off CDkey for £25

Just seen some guy post about how he spent £1400 on crown crates and didn't even get the Apex mount. Now that's funding the cash cow.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Id also love if eso implemented some of gw2 lighthearted pvp modes which i really enjoyed like the racing, survival game etc.

Can't remember the last PVP update for ESO, apart from them removing teams from battlegrounds.

Zer0_CooL

dhboy123 wrote: »

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Yet you're all busy riding across zones on your new crown crate mount, farming mythic items from your recently bought DLC...

U wot m8? Never bought a crown crate in my life, got Greymoor full expansion off CDkey for £25

Just seen some guy post about how he spent £1400 on crown crates and didn't even get the Apex mount. Now that's funding the cash cow.

1400 bucks?! Unfortunately ZOS shares are not open traded, otherwise i'd get some of that crate cash

Mayrael

Check dev trakcer, they are answerwing bugs and such threads - they "JUST" ignore threads about performance. They can't handle it and nothing is going to change because they have no idead how to improve it. Game will "heal" on its own at some point, when the players will start to leave

Sergykid

you are playing a business, not a game. So why do you complain? Tell me an MMO that is not a business. I don't know any MMO that cares about balance and ingame activities rather than content to sell or stuff to sugar the eyes of the consumer

dhboy123

Sergykid wrote: »

you are playing a business, not a game. So why do you complain? Tell me an MMO that is not a business. I don't know any MMO that cares about balance and ingame activities rather than content to sell or stuff to sugar the eyes of the consumer

Ok... wow.

1. No, we are playing a game which is also a business. The business part is a by product of the game, some games are made without any intention of becoming a business..
2. Many MMO's focus on the balance and ingame activities otherwise the MMO itself will not gain enough players to be profitable. This is business 101.
3. Wow.

Jerkling

dhboy123 wrote: »

Incase you need a quick run down in business basics, a cash cow is a product that offers a steady stream of income with very little maintenance.

If you know what a cash cow is then you should be able to answer that question yourself. Though the maintenance part is wrong, that not how cash cow is defined.

ESO isn't becoming a cash cow, it has always been one. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

dhboy123

Jerkling wrote: »

dhboy123 wrote: »

Incase you need a quick run down in business basics, a cash cow is a product that offers a steady stream of income with very little maintenance.

If you know what a cash cow is then you should be able to answer that question yourself. Though the maintenance part is wrong, that not how cash cow is defined.

ESO isn't becoming a cash cow, it has always been one. [snip]

The term cash cow is a metaphor for a "dairy cow" used on farms to produce milk, offering a steady stream of income with little maintenance. Cash cows are products or services that have achieved market leader status, provide positive cash flows and a return on assets (ROA) that exceeds the market growth rate.

The literal definition of the word. It's impossible for a product to always be a cash cow. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Raudgrani

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think a Chapter, a DLC, and 4 dungeons every year constitutes "very little maintenance," not to mention all the cosmetics each month, which bring in a lot of business. There are also combat and balance teams. Unless you define what you mean by "very little maintenance," and can prove it, there's not much to say that ESO is a cash cow as you've defined it. Are there other examples you could give that could help?

The Crown Crates were finished and scheduled for release way before the fencing bug, so releasing a previously-scheduled, previously-developed product separately from fixing a current bug (that they're working on and say will require a big fix) doesn't really represent anything IMO.

You mean a tiny zone, followed by a tinier zone? A zone with enough content for a few weeks, at best. Some dungeons and a raid yes, but again, much less content in comparison to other competitor's expansions.

I don't get how the new zone is considered "tiny" by so many, do you even count Blackreach underneat it? Overland area is probably about the size of Murkmire, but then you have Blackreach with quite some area underneath it. Saying it's "tiny" is simply not right, compared to previous zones. Summerset for example may be bigger, but then we are queued for another additional area this year - and if I'm not all wrong, this was not the case with Summerset. We had all of that at once.

ZOS has a lot to answer for, and this new chapter isn't perfect - but seriously, why can't we be factual?
What we really should focus at, is how they even let through bizarre glitches like harrowstorms being bugged for hours, trash mobs that can't be targeted nor killed, fencing that doesn't work, Cyrodiil performance and so on - and how they seriously can stomach to openly declare they have "hotfixed" a glitch where you could gain 100's of thousands of XP from glitched dwarven spiders in Blackreach, INSTEAD of focusing on hotfixing fencing, the harrowstorms or any of the other errors that really do affect the players in a negative way.

But people go on about complaining about the storyline going nowhere, Crown Store being greedy and the size of the new area. I mean, yeah....

dhboy123

Jerkling wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

dhboy123 wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

Im guessing we are assuming high maintenance = money spent = higher market share, therefore that sentance would be wrong. That would be a 'star' or a 'question mark'.. A star being high cash generation with high cash usage and a question mark being low cash generation with high cash usage.

Go read about the growth share matrix, its quite interesting.

asuitandtyb14_ESO

Raudgrani wrote: »

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think a Chapter, a DLC, and 4 dungeons every year constitutes "very little maintenance," not to mention all the cosmetics each month, which bring in a lot of business. There are also combat and balance teams. Unless you define what you mean by "very little maintenance," and can prove it, there's not much to say that ESO is a cash cow as you've defined it. Are there other examples you could give that could help?

The Crown Crates were finished and scheduled for release way before the fencing bug, so releasing a previously-scheduled, previously-developed product separately from fixing a current bug (that they're working on and say will require a big fix) doesn't really represent anything IMO.

You mean a tiny zone, followed by a tinier zone? A zone with enough content for a few weeks, at best. Some dungeons and a raid yes, but again, much less content in comparison to other competitor's expansions.

I don't get how the new zone is considered "tiny" by so many, do you even count Blackreach underneat it? Overland area is probably about the size of Murkmire, but then you have Blackreach with quite some area underneath it. Saying it's "tiny" is simply not right, compared to previous zones. Summerset for example may be bigger, but then we are queued for another additional area this year - and if I'm not all wrong, this was not the case with Summerset. We had all of that at once.

ZOS has a lot to answer for, and this new chapter isn't perfect - but seriously, why can't we be factual?
What we really should focus at, is how they even let through bizarre glitches like harrowstorms being bugged for hours, trash mobs that can't be targeted nor killed, fencing that doesn't work, Cyrodiil performance and so on - and how they seriously can stomach to openly declare they have "hotfixed" a glitch where you could gain 100's of thousands of XP from glitched dwarven spiders in Blackreach, INSTEAD of focusing on hotfixing fencing, the harrowstorms or any of the other errors that really do affect the players in a negative way.

But people go on about complaining about the storyline going nowhere, Crown Store being greedy and the size of the new area. I mean, yeah....

Well my opinion is my own, and subjective, but if a lot of other people share it, maybe there's a reason for that. That being said, yes I consider Blackreach as part of the description, and as a factor in the overall size. It's still small. I thought Elsweyr was a bit small, and electing to not complete it, and to cut out out the middle was pathetic. If it was fully completed as a province, I would not have been impressed, I would have been satisfied. I'm nowhere close to either of those feelings with Greymoor. In fact, it's my last chapter purchase. I expected to see Tamriel completed sometime in my lifetime. Releasing a quarter of a province over the course of a year is not good enough. I know, Markarth is coming. That region will probably be smaller than Southern Elsweyr. Even with a generous Markarth region, they need to be striving to offer a lot more. Again, compare the quantity and quality of what's produced (on the topic of expansions) to GW2 or WoW. It's not close, and Zeni is charging just as much as they do for a box price, they are getting a lot of crown store cash, and probably a good amount of subscriptions.

Bradyfjord

In my opinion, Greymoor feels much smaller than Morrowind or Summerset, which I would hold as the better examples of how ESO should have it's chapters. The smaller DLC content could be used to expand story and create story bridges to new chapters. I would also like new additions to gameplay like weapon/craft/guild skills for example.

Comparing a chapter drop to a DLC is what many of the community are doing because that's how it feels. It feels like a DLC rather than a proper chapter, even if there are the same number of assets (terrain, npc's, etc) added into the game.

Also, I don't enjoy how Antiquties plays out. I would have rather had a weapon skill line or guild skill instead that gave us new build options. Antiquities, as it plays, reminds me of Wow's archaeology. Both Antiquities and Archaeology are boring for me because I prefer content that requires me to utilize my (moderately thought out) character build. Although I liked seeing the npc Gabrielle Benelle again.

Not trying to attack anyone. If you like Greymoor I am happy for you. But it certainly feels smaller to me in size as well as quantity/quality of gameplay additions.

TineaCruris

dhboy123 wrote: »

Incase you need a quick run down in business basics, a cash cow is a product that offers a steady stream of income with very little maintenance. So for a long amount of time the game is gathering a larger income than it is outputting which is great for companies that are looking to progress into other streams of income or products that are coming to an end of their life cycle.

I've come to this conclusion as having been back playing for the last 3 months (played 2015-2018) I've noticed that the developer to player interaction almost seems to be non existent. There are hundreds if not thousands of threads asking for changes or even just asking for a simple answer that seem to go ignored time and time again (ironic that im writing a thread about it but what else can be done to get a point across?)

There also seems to be AN AMAZING amount of product placement and promotion going towards crown crates, these serve no purpose whatsoever in terms of game progression but are a quick cash grab for any developer. What astounded me the most is that there has been a major problem with fencing for PS4/XBOX users that has been going on for weeks that has been left broken yet ZOS will happily push out an update on crown crates.

I myself enjoy this game immensely but after only being back for a few months I feel that the playerbase is being somewhat ignored in terms of major issues (PVP) and things such as crown crates are just being churned out over and over again.

Just my 2 crowns.

Yes. ESO desperately needs a direct competitor that offers a nearly identical product/game (minus the crown crates and intense marketing).....and it sounds like that is only about a month away.

Maitenance means fixing the bugs. Years of releasing new content while disregarding major bugs, like the rez yourself bug, leads people to call ESO a "cash cow" because that's what it's looking like after Greymoor for sure. The entire focus is on selling shiny items to new players, not fixing anything that's wrong with the game play.

TineaCruris

Raudgrani wrote: »

asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think a Chapter, a DLC, and 4 dungeons every year constitutes "very little maintenance," not to mention all the cosmetics each month, which bring in a lot of business. There are also combat and balance teams. Unless you define what you mean by "very little maintenance," and can prove it, there's not much to say that ESO is a cash cow as you've defined it. Are there other examples you could give that could help?

The Crown Crates were finished and scheduled for release way before the fencing bug, so releasing a previously-scheduled, previously-developed product separately from fixing a current bug (that they're working on and say will require a big fix) doesn't really represent anything IMO.

You mean a tiny zone, followed by a tinier zone? A zone with enough content for a few weeks, at best. Some dungeons and a raid yes, but again, much less content in comparison to other competitor's expansions.

I don't get how the new zone is considered "tiny" by so many, do you even count Blackreach underneat it? Overland area is probably about the size of Murkmire, but then you have Blackreach with quite some area underneath it. Saying it's "tiny" is simply not right, compared to previous zones. Summerset for example may be bigger, but then we are queued for another additional area this year - and if I'm not all wrong, this was not the case with Summerset. We had all of that at once.

ZOS has a lot to answer for, and this new chapter isn't perfect - but seriously, why can't we be factual?
What we really should focus at, is how they even let through bizarre glitches like harrowstorms being bugged for hours, trash mobs that can't be targeted nor killed, fencing that doesn't work, Cyrodiil performance and so on - and how they seriously can stomach to openly declare they have "hotfixed" a glitch where you could gain 100's of thousands of XP from glitched dwarven spiders in Blackreach, INSTEAD of focusing on hotfixing fencing, the harrowstorms or any of the other errors that really do affect the players in a negative way.

But people go on about complaining about the storyline going nowhere, Crown Store being greedy and the size of the new area. I mean, yeah....

Blackreach is large in footprint, but pretty small in content. There isn't much down there, it's just big.

Zer0_CooL

Bradyfjord wrote: »

In my opinion, Greymoor feels much smaller than Morrowind or Summerset, which I would hold as the better examples of how ESO should have it's chapters.

Orsinium is the only good example of how a chapter should look like. Awesome and big map that invites for exploring with multiple worldbosses, public dungeons and even an Arena. Also nice costumes that were gained through playing not purchasing. That all accessible with ESO+.

Lysette

Sergykid wrote: »

you are playing a business, not a game. So why do you complain? Tell me an MMO that is not a business. I don't know any MMO that cares about balance and ingame activities rather than content to sell or stuff to sugar the eyes of the consumer

I know one though - which is done by passionate devs, experienced in proper balancing doing it really careful and well and it is around since 2003 not going anywhere anytime soon - I let you guess what MMO that is - hint: it's pvp everywhere.