It's Official - For people wondering about group play

Commandment · May 2020

This is meant for people like me, who were waiting for them to finish this "experiment"

ZOS_SarahHecker wrote: »

Hey all,

At this time, there are no immediate plans to reintroduce group queuing for PvP Battlegrounds in ESO. We are focusing on game performance improvements, and monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback. If we do consider reintroducing group queueing for PvP Battlegrounds in the future, we’ll let everyone know.

Source https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526638/any-news-about-this-battleground-experiment/p4

UPDATE! Question #30 Q&A

Q: Last year Battlegrounds became Soloqueue. Is this permanent, or temporal?
A: We are still evaluating it. We havent seen a marked improvement. We didnt see a large change in player numbers. (Slight Improvement). We are still talking about it.
If we let players choose we would fragment the queues, and Battlegrounds wouldnt match up anymore. We are still in the evaluation process.

Source: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/633422102?t=06h31m00s
Transcript of what was said: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529552/transcribed-interview-with-rich-lambert-27-05-2020/p1

As I stated before in these forums, it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced. Now we can finally understand that a big part of the community kinda got s*** on. How can you "consider" putting back something when it's supposed to be an "experiment". Shouldn't it be directly " Will" be putting it back?

I admit though, using words like "soon" "if" "consider" "maybe" "future" is a good way to keep the hopeful players hopes up so they can stay. It's just a way to put a community down in a more subtle matter. I felt like i got done dirty after reading that post. Oh the crowns i kept getting, sad life, what a waste, the game was so good when I joined. It was so refreshing to play from games like WoW where they completely dumbed it down, and made it so a toddler can fiddle with it.

But I digress.

Well at least they finally admitted there stance for Elder Scroll 6, which was just ELDER SCROLL OFFLINE! That I can respect, rather than checking every patch notes from then to now to see if they would revert what they did, I finally got my answer. - Obviously a joke, I'm hoping, and praying ES6 is an amazing game, but I already know they are going to hit it hard with "creation club" it's going to be a dope vr game.

But it's not a problem, I will continue my support for ZOS especially when they finally realize that games were meant to be fun, and there will always be sore losers at the end of the day, and I guess that would be me hoping I could play with friends and family. I just hope they work out these "performance improvements" and "experiments" .

You had a good game ZOS, but as far as I can see, the freedom to build, create, and make your character as you wish will go away soon just as simple features like this does. I would be foolish not think i'll have interesting things like CP, or the ability to learn all the skill lines I have right now due to "performance changes". Introducing Ranked would have just been a better feature all in all, and have the old que back for people who just want to run around without organization and test things.

I still have High Hopes for ESO devs, i'm looking forward to try those greymoor, or other future expansion features when they finally decide to return group play. Guess I'll get to partake in them some day.

These are just my opinions, and interpretations of what is happening, and nothing more, but the spokesperson finally gave there stand on the game, and now I can finally rest. So in hopes in following there trend of making ESO a place where everyone can be equal I'll leave a link to my idea on another thread. To help further there agenda to making the game much progressive place where everyone can feel safe.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528622/did-the-recent-changes-to-bg-came-from-the-council-from-a-social-media-platform#latest

A thread made from a fellow ESO player to see whether people like grouping or pure solo (Pole)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530896/should-being-able-to-queue-as-a-group-of-2-3-or-4-players-be-reintroduced-to-battlegrounds#latest

Nick_Balza · June 2020

I think, it's pointless to tell how much me and my friends are disappointed with this "experiment". And it doesn't look like experiment at all. Yeah, people were complaining about so-called "Premades" for ages, and ZOS satisfied their claim.
Any "experiment" has terms, conditions and detailed information what is about, what's the reason of experiment and when it ends. We got nothing from this vital information. Even newbies product/project managers providing not such pointless tests, but running A/B test, which shows obvious winner and raw data about what players really need and what kind of game they want to play.

Response from ZOS on this urgent question is dry and not really looks like

monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback.

And it's late on 4 months. For 4 months people were waiting at least some information about this.

My friends and I have decided not to buy greymoor and canceled subscription, just because game is not providing fun and ability spend time together such as it was time ago, when we had ability to join some activities together.

I know that there are people, who are thinking in same way and want to play proper group PvP. I will support and group with anyone, who is about doing efforts to bring group activities back.

VaranisArano · June 2020

Interesting.

I suspect a lot of folks who were hoping it would be the same sort of failed experiment like CP Battlegrounds that lasted all of one update will be rather disappointed.

That being said, I guess this suits the fast-paced, kill-and-be-killed playstyle that ZOS prefers for Battlegrounds. Teamwork was (and still is) always the one factor they couldn't balance for.

Commandment · June 2020

Nick_Balza wrote: »

I think, it's pointless to tell how much me and my friends are disappointed with this "experiment". And it doesn't look like experiment at all. Yeah, people were complaining about so-called "Premades" for ages, and ZOS satisfied their claim.
Any "experiment" has terms, conditions and detailed information what is about, what's the reason of experiment and when it ends. We got nothing from this vital information. Even newbies product/project managers providing not such pointless tests, but running A/B test, which shows obvious winner and raw data about what players really need and what kind of game they want to play.

Response from ZOS on this urgent question is dry and not really looks like

monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback.

And it's late on 4 months. For 4 months people were waiting at least some information about this.

My friends and I have decided not to buy greymoor and canceled subscription, just because game is not providing fun and ability spend time together such as it was time ago, when we had ability to join some activities together.

I know that there are people, who are thinking in same way and want to play proper group PvP. I will support and group with anyone, who is about doing efforts to bring group activities back.

The truth be told, there aren't a big representation on these forums as many players can't log in or know hot to sign up for the forums. To give in to a small percentage of the players in the game who complains about people playing together in an mmo is a scary and sad place.

Theres no experiment besides checking how many people they could unsub, while catering to a small percentage of the community.

Rewans · June 2020

Morrowind was the greatest game of my childhood... In Oblivion I stacked sigil stones like treasures... In Skyrim I never finished the main story cos I always ended up at the other end of the continent cos of some side quest. This ESO... every developer who have part in this BG system should feel nothing else just shame. Its sad. Where is the old team?

My wife like furnishings so I have to find a game where she can also do cosmetic things while WE PLAY TOGETHER.

Elsonso · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

This is meant for people like me, who were waiting for them to finish this "experiment"

ZOS_SarahHecker wrote: »

Hey all,

At this time, there are no immediate plans to reintroduce group queuing for PvP Battlegrounds in ESO. We are focusing on game performance improvements, and monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback. If we do consider reintroducing group queueing for PvP Battlegrounds in the future, we’ll let everyone know.

Source https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526638/any-news-about-this-battleground-experiment/p4

As I stated before in these forums, it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced. Now we can finally understand that a big part of the community kinda got s*** on. How can you "consider" putting back something when it's supposed to be an "experiment". Shouldn't it be directly " Will" be putting it back?

Actually, Lambert touched on the experiment that they are running in his interview. Apparently, as part of all of this, they were looking for an increase in single players who were reluctant to play against organized groups. As I recall, Lambert's comment was along the lines of "we haven't seen any indication of that".

Now, I still think the bigger issue is related to reliability of the activity finder, and single player queues solved that, I guess.

Thoragaal · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

This is meant for people like me, who were waiting for them to finish this "experiment"

ZOS_SarahHecker wrote: »

Hey all,

At this time, there are no immediate plans to reintroduce group queuing for PvP Battlegrounds in ESO. We are focusing on game performance improvements, and monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback. If we do consider reintroducing group queueing for PvP Battlegrounds in the future, we’ll let everyone know.

Source https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526638/any-news-about-this-battleground-experiment/p4

As I stated before in these forums, it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced. Now we can finally understand that a big part of the community kinda got s*** on. How can you "consider" putting back something when it's supposed to be an "experiment". Shouldn't it be directly " Will" be putting it back?

From what I know the "experiment" was to see if the change would increase the popularity of BGs.
As Rich Lambert said, in a recent interview, it was however only a slight increase.
The transcribed version, with a link to the full interview, can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529552/transcribed-interview-with-rich-lambert-27-05-2020/p1

Commandment · June 2020

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

This is meant for people like me, who were waiting for them to finish this "experiment"

ZOS_SarahHecker wrote: »

Hey all,

At this time, there are no immediate plans to reintroduce group queuing for PvP Battlegrounds in ESO. We are focusing on game performance improvements, and monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback. If we do consider reintroducing group queueing for PvP Battlegrounds in the future, we’ll let everyone know.

Source https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526638/any-news-about-this-battleground-experiment/p4

As I stated before in these forums, it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced. Now we can finally understand that a big part of the community kinda got s*** on. How can you "consider" putting back something when it's supposed to be an "experiment". Shouldn't it be directly " Will" be putting it back?

From what I know the "experiment" was to see if the change would increase the popularity of BGs.
As Rich Lambert said, in a recent interview, it was however only a slight increase.
The transcribed version, with a link to the full interview, can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529552/transcribed-interview-with-rich-lambert-27-05-2020/p1

30.
Q: Last year Battlegrounds became Soloqueue. Is this permanent, or temporal?
A: We are still evaluating it. We havent seen a marked improvement. We didnt see a large change in player numbers. (Slight Improvement). We are still talking about it.
If we let players choose we would fragment the queues, and Battlegrounds wouldnt match up anymore. We are still in the evaluation process.

Just as I said before, it's straight up vague. How can there be no marked improvement, but theres apparently this "slight improvement" what is it 0.0001? Could it be more people are trying out BG's only due to the latest release of the expansion that may have brought in new players? Does it cause people to play more BG' or does he mean more people just do dailies? How long is this process? What exactly are they talking about thats so secretive? As far as I can see it's indefinite/never

I doubt they seen any of this slight improvement as they technically trashed a community of players. This wouldn't even be valid as an improvement even if they were just trying to fix the group finder as they took away a whole feature of grouping within the "group" finder.

At the end of the day it just shows there experiment was a fail that bore no fruits.

So now it comes down to 2 things, either they just don't care and told themselves "I want to innovate the game into elder scrolls offline", or they really just wanted to ghost in this new system so people can feel safe when they enter a BG.

Josira · June 2020

But what this really means is that this new Solo Only queue system Ticks all the boxes of what it means to be a Vampire.

Commandment · June 2020

Josira wrote: »

But what this really means is that this new Solo Only queue system Ticks all the boxes of what it means to be a Vampire.

Edgyyyyy, I felt like they could have at least revamped the werewolfs/fighter's guild as well since it's supposed to be a major expansion. to make it a complete set. Elder Twilight Offiline.

Josira · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

Josira wrote: »

But what this really means is that this new Solo Only queue system Ticks all the boxes of what it means to be a Vampire.

Edgyyyyy, I felt like they could have at least revamped the werewolfs/fighter's guild as well since it's supposed to be a major expansion. to make it a complete set. Elder Twilight Offiline.

That wouldn't truly tick all the boxes of what it means to be a vampire unless the reworks made werewolf cost 1.6k health per second its active and dawnbreaker damage yourself and allies for 100% extra damage per cast.

Thoragaal · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

This is meant for people like me, who were waiting for them to finish this "experiment"

ZOS_SarahHecker wrote: »

Hey all,

At this time, there are no immediate plans to reintroduce group queuing for PvP Battlegrounds in ESO. We are focusing on game performance improvements, and monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback. If we do consider reintroducing group queueing for PvP Battlegrounds in the future, we’ll let everyone know.

Source https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526638/any-news-about-this-battleground-experiment/p4

As I stated before in these forums, it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced. Now we can finally understand that a big part of the community kinda got s*** on. How can you "consider" putting back something when it's supposed to be an "experiment". Shouldn't it be directly " Will" be putting it back?

From what I know the "experiment" was to see if the change would increase the popularity of BGs.
As Rich Lambert said, in a recent interview, it was however only a slight increase.
The transcribed version, with a link to the full interview, can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529552/transcribed-interview-with-rich-lambert-27-05-2020/p1

30.
Q: Last year Battlegrounds became Soloqueue. Is this permanent, or temporal?
A: We are still evaluating it. We havent seen a marked improvement. We didnt see a large change in player numbers. (Slight Improvement). We are still talking about it.
If we let players choose we would fragment the queues, and Battlegrounds wouldnt match up anymore. We are still in the evaluation process.

Just as I said before, it's straight up vague. How can there be no marked improvement, but theres apparently this "slight improvement" what is it 0.0001? Could it be more people are trying out BG's only due to the latest release of the expansion that may have brought in new players? Does it cause people to play more BG' or does he mean more people just do dailies? How long is this process? What exactly are they talking about thats so secretive? As far as I can see it's indefinite/never

I doubt they seen any of this slight improvement as they technically trashed a community of players. This wouldn't even be valid as an improvement even if they were just trying to fix the group finder as they took away a whole feature of grouping within the "group" finder.

At the end of the day it just shows there experiment was a fail that bore no fruits.

So now it comes down to 2 things, either they just don't care and told themselves "I want to innovate the game into elder scrolls offline", or they really just wanted to ghost in this new system so people can feel safe when they enter a BG.

There hasn't really been a good time to measure current statistics. Things aren't exactly "normal".
More people are at home which is increasing player activity, it's simultanously degrading performance, along we have the Greymoor chapter being released which is also increasing the playerbase.
Things would have to settle down to a more "normal" state before anyone can draw any kind of useful conclusions.
You're probably gonna have to wait until autumn, maybe even winter, before they can even start collecting any useful data.
Keep in mind that these solo queues were introduced right before the covid-19 outbreak.

Commandment · June 2020

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

This is meant for people like me, who were waiting for them to finish this "experiment"

ZOS_SarahHecker wrote: »

Hey all,

At this time, there are no immediate plans to reintroduce group queuing for PvP Battlegrounds in ESO. We are focusing on game performance improvements, and monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback. If we do consider reintroducing group queueing for PvP Battlegrounds in the future, we’ll let everyone know.

Source https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526638/any-news-about-this-battleground-experiment/p4

As I stated before in these forums, it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced. Now we can finally understand that a big part of the community kinda got s*** on. How can you "consider" putting back something when it's supposed to be an "experiment". Shouldn't it be directly " Will" be putting it back?

From what I know the "experiment" was to see if the change would increase the popularity of BGs.
As Rich Lambert said, in a recent interview, it was however only a slight increase.
The transcribed version, with a link to the full interview, can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529552/transcribed-interview-with-rich-lambert-27-05-2020/p1

30.
Q: Last year Battlegrounds became Soloqueue. Is this permanent, or temporal?
A: We are still evaluating it. We havent seen a marked improvement. We didnt see a large change in player numbers. (Slight Improvement). We are still talking about it.
If we let players choose we would fragment the queues, and Battlegrounds wouldnt match up anymore. We are still in the evaluation process.

Just as I said before, it's straight up vague. How can there be no marked improvement, but theres apparently this "slight improvement" what is it 0.0001? Could it be more people are trying out BG's only due to the latest release of the expansion that may have brought in new players? Does it cause people to play more BG' or does he mean more people just do dailies? How long is this process? What exactly are they talking about thats so secretive? As far as I can see it's indefinite/never

I doubt they seen any of this slight improvement as they technically trashed a community of players. This wouldn't even be valid as an improvement even if they were just trying to fix the group finder as they took away a whole feature of grouping within the "group" finder.

At the end of the day it just shows there experiment was a fail that bore no fruits.

So now it comes down to 2 things, either they just don't care and told themselves "I want to innovate the game into elder scrolls offline", or they really just wanted to ghost in this new system so people can feel safe when they enter a BG.

There hasn't really been a good time to measure current statistics. Things aren't exactly "normal".
More people are at home which is increasing player activity, it's simultanously degrading performance, along we have the Greymoor chapter being released which is also increasing the playerbase.
Things would have to settle down to a more "normal" state before anyone can draw any kind of useful conclusions.
You're probably gonna have to wait until autumn, maybe even winter, before they can even start collecting any useful data.
Keep in mind that these solo queues were introduced right before the covid-19 outbreak.

Exactly why "experiments" should stay "experimental" in test servers.

But at the end of the day it's speculation when or "if" this "experiment" will end. For all we know it's never as well as it can be till the next expansion unless a dev says otherwise.

To release back a simple feature as PvP with a group of friends, or even just a friend would bring interest back to some people I'de bet, but if they're going to wait for/after the other big MMO's expansion coming out of the end of this year, they might just end up losing customers all together. As many good features ESO has that I really loved, I now realize they can just take it away in a heart beat as "experiments"

I really loved the Housing system in this game, CP levels which gave me more to do, and the voice actors, but sometimes certain things just weigh more than the other, and for me thats pvp.

I really really just hope Zenimax/Eso devs don't do a full back flip like Marvel and go full coo coo for co co puffs like there new "warriors" and the "children of atom". They've done a good job so far with the game (except the random removal for group pvp) but I feel personally that they should just find ways to upgrade the game and improve on what they are doing good, rather than downgrade it and remove things.

Good work on them for adding minigames to ESO, but PVP is a big aspect of a game, and a heavy one which is a deciding factor for people when choosing a game to play.

Unless you're secretly a dev talking under guise to inform people without stating something official with certain time frames then I would have my hopes up. Otherwise it's a no go on playing with friends indefinitely.

But thanks for bringing me info further on what the Dev said, I really appreciate it. It has given more insight.

Prospero_ESO · June 2020

A: We are still evaluating it. We havent seen a marked improvement. We didnt see a large change in player numbers. (Slight Improvement). We are still talking about it.

This answer is very strange to me. We have seen an abnormous influx of players since the last addons but nobody seems to be interested in PvP/BG´s? Why is that? Maybe ZOS should figure out how to attract more people for this mode instead of forcing people to play solo. Long time goal, in my opinion, should be separate queues for solo players and premades whenever possible.

wheem_ESO · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

Exactly why "experiments" should stay "experimental" in test servers.

Not possible for ESO. I've seen you use this argument before, which just makes it sound like you've never actually played on the PTS. As a general rule, Battlegrounds may happen for the first couple days of a PTS cycle, after which point it basically becomes either dueling or PvE damage parsing on target dummies.

The only real way for Zenimax to experiment with BGs is to do it on the live servers (or perhaps some internal testing if it's just "under-the-hood" changes).

Thoragaal · June 2020

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Exactly why "experiments" should stay "experimental" in test servers.

Not possible for ESO. I've seen you use this argument before, which just makes it sound like you've never actually played on the PTS. As a general rule, Battlegrounds may happen for the first couple days of a PTS cycle, after which point it basically becomes either dueling or PvE damage parsing on target dummies.

The only real way for Zenimax to experiment with BGs is to do it on the live servers (or perhaps some internal testing if it's just "under-the-hood" changes).

Exactly this.
It needs to be tested on live. There are too many variables that's not showing up on test servers that otherwise would.
However, in general it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes. But if more people are participating than before then it's most of the time a step in the right direction.
Although it's too soon to say that it's been "a success or failure" in this case, since it might just be that many new players are trying out BG's and many of those players might not stay once things around the world starts settling down.
It's too soon to say anything in regards to solo queues vs group queues.

Commandment · June 2020

Thoragaal wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Exactly why "experiments" should stay "experimental" in test servers.

Not possible for ESO. I've seen you use this argument before, which just makes it sound like you've never actually played on the PTS. As a general rule, Battlegrounds may happen for the first couple days of a PTS cycle, after which point it basically becomes either dueling or PvE damage parsing on target dummies.

The only real way for Zenimax to experiment with BGs is to do it on the live servers (or perhaps some internal testing if it's just "under-the-hood" changes).

Exactly this.
It needs to be tested on live. There are too many variables that's not showing up on test servers that otherwise would.
However, in general it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes. But if more people are participating than before then it's most of the time a step in the right direction.
Although it's too soon to say that it's been "a success or failure" in this case, since it might just be that many new players are trying out BG's and many of those players might not stay once things around the world starts settling down.
It's too soon to say anything in regards to solo queues vs group queues.

Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers there research would still be bogus, merely stating more people participated in BG's wouldn't mean it's a success in anyways, especially without feedback from the players. There is no proof showing regular que wouldn't show the same results or higher during this time as it isn't really thrown in to the equation.

It's like when I did medical research on patient's. You have different groups, dependent variable, and independent variables, patients who go with the normal routine, and those who go with the modified routine. You "have" to "set" a time frame for how long the treatment will last. Then during and after the time frame you would continue to get your feedback, and an objective analysis on if there was improvements.

In the case of ESO, its completely remove the control group, insert forced test of a experimental group/ variable and see if more people plays (especially during a time of a expansion release, completely bad timing) which can result in a false positive. Which is why I would assume it's a fail even if they said there was this "slight" improvement which for all we would know is a 0.001% increase. Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted.

For all we know, more people who would have selected teaming up with friends (regular que) rather than going pure solo hero if given the choice. But then again, it's exactly as the dev said, this would fragment the ques most likely causing longer wait times. It's a poor experiment/research practice. There is also currently no communication of constructive feedback when playing BG's to know if the players like it at this point in time besides "hey that player clicked on the solo que for his daily". But as far as I can see, these forums are more filled with bring grouping back/ give group alternative rather than "I love playing alone", well except for that one thread where he was just showing how BG's were the same as the old (with screen shots)

Thoragaal · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Exactly why "experiments" should stay "experimental" in test servers.

Not possible for ESO. I've seen you use this argument before, which just makes it sound like you've never actually played on the PTS. As a general rule, Battlegrounds may happen for the first couple days of a PTS cycle, after which point it basically becomes either dueling or PvE damage parsing on target dummies.

The only real way for Zenimax to experiment with BGs is to do it on the live servers (or perhaps some internal testing if it's just "under-the-hood" changes).

Exactly this.
It needs to be tested on live. There are too many variables that's not showing up on test servers that otherwise would.
However, in general it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes. But if more people are participating than before then it's most of the time a step in the right direction.
Although it's too soon to say that it's been "a success or failure" in this case, since it might just be that many new players are trying out BG's and many of those players might not stay once things around the world starts settling down.
It's too soon to say anything in regards to solo queues vs group queues.

Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers there research would still be bogus, merely stating more people participated in BG's wouldn't mean it's a success in anyways, especially without feedback from the players. There is no proof showing regular que wouldn't show the same results or higher during this time as it isn't really thrown in to the equation.

It's like when I did medical research on patient's. You have different groups, dependent variable, and independent variables, patients who go with the normal routine, and those who go with the modified routine. You "have" to "set" a time frame for how long the treatment will last. Then during and after the time frame you would continue to get your feedback, and an objective analysis on if there was improvements.

In the case of ESO, its completely remove the control group, insert forced test of a experimental group/ variable and see if more people plays (especially during a time of a expansion release, completely bad timing) which can result in a false positive. Which is why I would assume it's a fail even if they said there was this "slight" improvement which for all we would know is a 0.001% increase. Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted.

For all we know, more people who would have selected teaming up with friends (regular que) rather than going pure solo hero if given the choice. But then again, it's exactly as the dev said, this would fragment the ques most likely causing longer wait times. It's a poor experiment/research practice. There is also currently no communication of constructive feedback when playing BG's to know if the players like it at this point in time besides "hey that player clicked on the solo que for his daily". But as far as I can see, these forums are more filled with bring grouping back/ give group alternative rather than "I love playing alone", well except for that one thread where he was just showing how BG's were the same as the old (with screen shots)

I agree with you to probably 99%. We're saying the same thing.
"Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers [...]" I 100% agree, that's why I'm saying "It's too soon to say anything" and Rich Lamber doesn't say anything about it being a success, he only states that "we haven't seen a marked improvement in terms of number of people playing". The only way they'd be able to draw some kind of conclusion from this "experiment" would be to compare old data with the new. But the current data is irrelevant, because: The performance issues has made many previously dedicated players to stop playing, many of whom which are/were into pvp ; Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back ; The new chapter has just released and many players are busy with that instead of doing BGs ; Once greymoor activity settles down many players might gravitate towards trying BGs. So on and so on. It's simply too many variables to draw any kind of reliable conclusion of the current data. We have to give it more time.

"It's like when I did medical research on patient's [...]" and there probably was a time frame. However that time frame has probably also been pushed forward due to everything else going on, because like you said yourself "Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted". At the moment there is no way of knowing.

"[...] It's a poor experiment/research practice [...]" what would be the alternative? Like I said myself, for example "[...] it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes" but beyond that I don't know how to improve their practices. And regarding changes, it's a lot down to their base coding. I would prefer if the "solo queue experiment" was a single patch update that had no ties to other changes.
"[...] these forums are more filled with bring grouping back [...]" and before that we had most people begging for an introduction of solo queues and people didn't make threads back then about how "I love playing in a group". People mainly come to the forum when they have something to complain about. From my own experience, with people in BGs, people seem to enjoy the solo queues over the group queues. But then again, I don't know anyone that preferred playing in a group before this change, so I have no idea how many people that are dissatisfied with it. Well, a part from you

Commandment · June 2020

Thoragaal wrote: »

I agree with you to probably 99%. We're saying the same thing.
"Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers [...]" I 100% agree, that's why I'm saying "It's too soon to say anything" and many of whom which are/were into pvp ; ;

I can understand that, but again it's vague what they are doing.. and it's been a good while to just receive such a disappointing statement they gave to us.

Rich Lamber doesn't say anything about it being a success, he only states that "we haven't seen a marked improvement in terms of number of people playing". The only way they'd be able to draw some kind of conclusion from this "experiment" would be to compare old data with the new. But the current data is irrelevant, because: The performance issues has made many previously dedicated players to stop playing.

Unfortunately I never implied if he said it was a success, It was my objective assumption after what he said given the time frame that group pvp has been removed.

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

I'll come back to this statement.

The new chapter has just released and many players are busy with that instead of doing BGs ; Once greymoor activity settles down many players might gravitate towards trying BGs. So on and so on. It's simply too many variables to draw any kind of reliable conclusion of the current data. We have to give it more time.

Granted these "may" be hidden variables, but can we not assume most players would do the activities they love the most Pver->PvE PvPer->PvP Rper->RPing. Shoot there was even a time I just decided to design my home, and took 1 month of my time

, and I'm still looking for ways to improve it, especially when they re-release pvp teaming up. Another thing is timing, really? before an expansion? What? Why? Seems like terrible timing.

Granted COVID came up, but then again they could have most likely reverted it and said they would experiment during another time frame as we know, it is an "experiment". Can you imagine a new couple getting into ESO, "Hey cool this game seems neat! Let's try PvP together!" "Oh wait.. teaming up isnt allowed in a mmo hmmm. "Let's try cyro for group PvP, oh wait whats that? You might not have the best computer specs or connection to handle the lag? Here comes the lag party to come slaughter us! Hurray!"

"It's like when I did medical research on patient's [...]" and there probably was a time frame. However that time frame has probably also been pushed forward due to everything else going on, because like you said yourself "Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted". At the moment there is no way of knowing.

But based on what was said in his statement you can conclude nothing really changed as there is no marked improvement or large change in player numbers. Thus so far my objective opinion is it's a fail experiment.

"[...] It's a poor experiment/research practice [...]" what would be the alternative? Like I said myself, for example "[...] it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes" but beyond that I don't know how to improve their practices. And regarding changes, it's a lot down to their base coding. I would prefer if the "solo queue experiment" was a single patch update that had no ties to other changes.

Granted that these were changes for "performance" in there words what ever that may be, but this experiment I felt could have been done better. If i were to do drastic changes like they did under an "experiment" I would guise it under as a event for a option to do solo que and state it as a secondary temporary option with the current regular que in the case that it does become a complete disaster rather than just removing a feature thats already working. This would lead to the infamous "we want 2 ques" which i highly disagree on because as the dev stated it would fragment the ques of course unless they make that second que a ranked que.. Give some reward for playing it and give a box at the end of the matches in either type you play before leaving if they enjoyed the match, disliked it, or felt neutral about it, and maybe a section if they want to leave a comment. The more games you play the more rewards you get (Then they get the mean average of your reaction of all the games you played to have it calculated) then be processed with everyone else at the end of the experiment to see what people felt during the games. Then finally at the end of the event distribute a small questionnaire to gauge the players that they can sign up for to express there reactions and feelings towards the experiment, which is scored up to see how likable the idea was, or maybe if it's just because of the group finder in general. As well as give incentive to those willing to answer it as they given there time to help make ESO a better game. I'm not saying my idea is perfect, and may be a smart one, but I'de rather not remove things from my players just because. I understand this would give the team a challenge as it requires extensive coding which could cause more bugs besides the statement "it will fragment ques". I know it may be hard, as I have no clue how extensive coding is. Again this is more like my take on it.

As a side note if it was a problem with the group finder as some may say, then I really don't see the purpose of removing grouping in BG's. If they "decided" to return grouping it would just break there system again since they are only testing for solo ques.

"[...] these forums are more filled with bring grouping back [...]" and before that we had most people begging for an introduction of solo queues and people didn't make threads back then about how "I love playing in a group". People mainly come to the forum when they have something to complain about. From my own experience, with people in BGs, people seem to enjoy the solo queues over the group queues. , so I have no idea how many people that are dissatisfied with it. Well, a part from you

Granted, and I 100% agree that complainers will complain on forums I came on these forums, and found out how to log in as soon as I saw the patch notes.

So first from my personal experience with BG's solo play, it's no different than previous BG's there always a alpha group, sometimes theres 2 alpha groups ganging on the beta groups spawn for points. No one in chat saying "WOW SOLO PLAY IS SO AMAZING" I see more saying things like "MAN THAT GUYS CLASS IS OP!" "WHY DID THEY PUT ALL THE SWEATY SORCS AND TEMPLARS IN ONE TEAM" "NB! RABLE RABLE RABLE!" "THAT GUY ON MY TEAM ISN'T PULLING HIS WEIGHT! HE'S NOTING DOING MY REQUIRED AMOUNT OF DAMAGE!!!" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE DO THE OBJECTIVE!! PLEASEEE!! THIS ISN'T DEATH MATCH!" "RANDOM CURSE WORDS, THEN LEAVES BATTLEGROUND" "WE HAVE NO HEALER, WAHH WAHHHH WAHHHH" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE STICK TOGETHER?" "YOU ALL SUCK"- 0/20/0

I also never said I knew how many people are dissatisfied, but I did announced it in-game in many zones and got more negative feedback rather than hurray hurrah!, as well as those who were oblivious to the change, my purpose was to promote people to go on the forums and give there feedback to hopefully stop what they just dumped on people!

I can see where you can have that assumption that I act like I'm all knowing which I can humbly say that I really am not, but let's be honest hear, ZOS doesn't care to share any information with people even as simple as something like BG, and how MMR works

And as a fellow intellectual, I'de suggest you not put out to many BS contradictions and exaggerate some of your statements in things like

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

and

'But then again, I don't know anyone that preferred playing in a group before this change"

In the same argument how would you claim your first statement if your second statement claims you know nobody? Then again maybe you somehow know the statistics for every type of player that left the game for certain reason which none of us has access too, as well as the apparent knowledge about how they coded the game

If you read my OP, I clearly state these are my objective opinions, I admit I have no numbers, or statistic to back anything up just speculations and concerns for the game i came to enjoy. ESO is an amazing game, but they done something really dirty this time. I'm only using my visual, and personal experience to see subjective opinion's from others to come up with my own conclusion. From an honest stand point prepatch of grouping removals, not to honk my own horn, but even if I played solo, and I did exceptionally well in my team, I would get hate whisper claiming I'm in a premade, and thats the only reason I'm good. So if you ask why would I want to group with others if I think I'm decent at solo play? In general I like spending time with others, and finding a way to bond with my family as those grow apart and we move our own directions. ESO was a good place for bonding. Doesn't mean I team up with someone we make a winning combo, sometimes we like to do jank things in BG's to see if they work to have fun. Which games were meant for.. To have fun.

But as a closing statement ESO ZOS dev's are most likely not reading these post nor care that we have anything to say, so at the end of the day as much as I'de like to believe, us debating over something like this is most likely pointless, we are pretty much just 2 locked up dudes in there rooms typing at air. Unless you were a dev, I'de take many of your words in mind, so to them I hope they keep working to make ESO better, and hopefully they give us our ability to play with friends/family.

Thoragaal · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

I agree with you to probably 99%. We're saying the same thing.
"Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers [...]" I 100% agree, that's why I'm saying "It's too soon to say anything" and many of whom which are/were into pvp ; ;

I can understand that, but again it's vague what they are doing.. and it's been a good while to just receive such a disappointing statement they gave to us.

Rich Lamber doesn't say anything about it being a success, he only states that "we haven't seen a marked improvement in terms of number of people playing". The only way they'd be able to draw some kind of conclusion from this "experiment" would be to compare old data with the new. But the current data is irrelevant, because: The performance issues has made many previously dedicated players to stop playing.

Unfortunately I never implied if he said it was a success, It was my objective assumption after what he said given the time frame that group pvp has been removed.

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

I'll come back to this statement.

The new chapter has just released and many players are busy with that instead of doing BGs ; Once greymoor activity settles down many players might gravitate towards trying BGs. So on and so on. It's simply too many variables to draw any kind of reliable conclusion of the current data. We have to give it more time.

Granted these "may" be hidden variables, but can we not assume most players would do the activities they love the most Pver->PvE PvPer->PvP Rper->RPing. Shoot there was even a time I just decided to design my home, and took 1 month of my time , and I'm still looking for ways to improve it, especially when they re-release pvp teaming up. Another thing is timing, really? before an expansion? What? Why? Seems like terrible timing.

Granted COVID came up, but then again they could have most likely reverted it and said they would experiment during another time frame as we know, it is an "experiment". Can you imagine a new couple getting into ESO, "Hey cool this game seems neat! Let's try PvP together!" "Oh wait.. teaming up isnt allowed in a mmo hmmm. "Let's try cyro for group PvP, oh wait whats that? You might not have the best computer specs or connection to handle the lag? Here comes the lag party to come slaughter us! Hurray!"

"It's like when I did medical research on patient's [...]" and there probably was a time frame. However that time frame has probably also been pushed forward due to everything else going on, because like you said yourself "Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted". At the moment there is no way of knowing.

But based on what was said in his statement you can conclude nothing really changed as there is no marked improvement or large change in player numbers. Thus so far my objective opinion is it's a fail experiment.

"[...] It's a poor experiment/research practice [...]" what would be the alternative? Like I said myself, for example "[...] it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes" but beyond that I don't know how to improve their practices. And regarding changes, it's a lot down to their base coding. I would prefer if the "solo queue experiment" was a single patch update that had no ties to other changes.

Granted that these were changes for "performance" in there words what ever that may be, but this experiment I felt could have been done better. If i were to do drastic changes like they did under an "experiment" I would guise it under as a event for a option to do solo que and state it as a secondary temporary option with the current regular que in the case that it does become a complete disaster rather than just removing a feature thats already working. This would lead to the infamous "we want 2 ques" which i highly disagree on because as the dev stated it would fragment the ques of course unless they make that second que a ranked que.. Give some reward for playing it and give a box at the end of the matches in either type you play before leaving if they enjoyed the match, disliked it, or felt neutral about it, and maybe a section if they want to leave a comment. The more games you play the more rewards you get (Then they get the mean average of your reaction of all the games you played to have it calculated) then be processed with everyone else at the end of the experiment to see what people felt during the games. Then finally at the end of the event distribute a small questionnaire to gauge the players that they can sign up for to express there reactions and feelings towards the experiment, which is scored up to see how likable the idea was, or maybe if it's just because of the group finder in general. As well as give incentive to those willing to answer it as they given there time to help make ESO a better game. I'm not saying my idea is perfect, and may be a smart one, but I'de rather not remove things from my players just because.

As a side note if it was a problem with the group finder as some may say, then I really don't see the purpose of removing grouping in BG's. If they "decided" to return grouping it would just break there system again since they are only testing for solo ques.

"[...] these forums are more filled with bring grouping back [...]" and before that we had most people begging for an introduction of solo queues and people didn't make threads back then about how "I love playing in a group". People mainly come to the forum when they have something to complain about. From my own experience, with people in BGs, people seem to enjoy the solo queues over the group queues. , so I have no idea how many people that are dissatisfied with it. Well, a part from you

Granted, and I 100% agree that complainers will complain on forums I came on these forums, and found out how to log in as soon as I saw the patch notes.

So first from my personal experience with BG's solo play, it's no different than previous BG's there always a alpha group, sometimes theres 2 alpha groups ganging on the beta groups spawn for points. No one in chat saying "WOW SOLO PLAY IS SO AMAZING" I see more saying things like "MAN THAT GUYS CLASS IS OP!" "WHY DID THEY PUT ALL THE SWEATY SORCS AND TEMPLARS IN ONE TEAM" "NB! RABLE RABLE RABLE!" "THAT GUY ON MY TEAM ISN'T PULLING HIS WEIGHT! HE'S NOTING DOING MY REQUIRED AMOUNT OF DAMAGE!!!" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE DO THE OBJECTIVE!! PLEASEEE!! THIS ISN'T DEATH MATCH!" "RANDOM CURSE WORDS, THEN LEAVES BATTLEGROUND" "WE HAVE NO HEALER, WAHH WAHHHH WAHHHH" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE STICK TOGETHER?" "YOU ALL SUCK"- 0/20/0

I also never said I knew how many people are dissatisfied, but I did announced it in-game in many zones and got more negative feedback rather than hurray hurrah!, as well as those who were oblivious to the change, my purpose was to promote people to go on the forums and give there feedback to hopefully stop what they just dumped on people!

I can see where you can have that assumption that I act like I'm all knowing which I can humbly say that I really am not, but let's be honest hear, ZOS doesn't care to share any information with people even as simple as something like BG, and how MMR works

And as a fellow intellectual, I'de suggest you not put out to many BS contradictions and exaggerate some of your statements in things like

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

and

'But then again, I don't know anyone that preferred playing in a group before this change"

In the same argument how would you claim your first statement if your second statement claims you know nobody? Then again maybe you somehow know the statistics for every type of player that left the game for certain reason which none of us has access too, as well as the apparent knowledge about how they coded the game

If you read my OP, I clearly state these are my objective opinions, I admit I have no numbers, or statistic to back anything up just speculations and concerns for the game i came to enjoy. ESO is an amazing game, but they done something really dirty this time. I'm only using my visual, and personal experience to see subjective opinion's from others to come up with my own conclusion. From an honest stand point prepatch of grouping removals, not to honk my own horn, but even if I played solo, and I did exceptionally well in my team, I would get hate whisper claiming I'm in a premade, and thats the only reason I'm good. So if you ask why would I want to group with others if I think I'm decent at solo play? In general I like spending time with others, and finding a way to bond with my family as those grow apart and we move our own directions. ESO was a good place for bonding. Doesn't mean I team up with someone we make a winning combo, sometimes we like to do jank things in BG's to see if they work to have fun. Which games were meant for.. To have fun.

But as a closing statement ESO ZOS dev's are most likely not reading these post nor care that we have anything to say, so at the end of the day as much as I'de like to believe, us debating over something like this is most likely pointless, we are pretty much just 2 locked up dudes in there rooms typing at air. Unless you were a dev, I'de take many of your words in mind, so to them I hope they keep working to make ESO better, and hopefully they give us our ability to play with friends/family.

Wow, that's a long reply!

First of all, apologies if I don't read everything, I was just about to go sleep.
Anyway, I don't know anyone personally that's quit BGs because they can't group up, but I have read people stating that they have. Whether it's true (that they quit) or not I have no idea. Sorry, I was being really unclear about the distinction, I partly blame a long phone call I had in the middle of my reply

"I can see where you can have that assumption [...]" absolutely not. I mostly view your PoV as something you're concerned with.
I mostly object to the part where you say "[...] it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced". To me it sounds a lot like you think ZOS deliberately tried to be ambiguous with the change, maybe even that they tried to fool the community, which I sincerely doubt. At least about the BGs... but for example, I have no doubt in my mind that they're not telling the whole story to why performance is the way it is, while simultanously being able to say things like "we're working hard on it".

EDIT: Btw, it's nice having a civil, maybe even constructive, conversation for once on these forums. Thank you!

Commandment · June 2020

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

I agree with you to probably 99%. We're saying the same thing.
"Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers [...]" I 100% agree, that's why I'm saying "It's too soon to say anything" and many of whom which are/were into pvp ; ;

I can understand that, but again it's vague what they are doing.. and it's been a good while to just receive such a disappointing statement they gave to us.

Rich Lamber doesn't say anything about it being a success, he only states that "we haven't seen a marked improvement in terms of number of people playing". The only way they'd be able to draw some kind of conclusion from this "experiment" would be to compare old data with the new. But the current data is irrelevant, because: The performance issues has made many previously dedicated players to stop playing.

Unfortunately I never implied if he said it was a success, It was my objective assumption after what he said given the time frame that group pvp has been removed.

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

I'll come back to this statement.

The new chapter has just released and many players are busy with that instead of doing BGs ; Once greymoor activity settles down many players might gravitate towards trying BGs. So on and so on. It's simply too many variables to draw any kind of reliable conclusion of the current data. We have to give it more time.

Granted these "may" be hidden variables, but can we not assume most players would do the activities they love the most Pver->PvE PvPer->PvP Rper->RPing. Shoot there was even a time I just decided to design my home, and took 1 month of my time , and I'm still looking for ways to improve it, especially when they re-release pvp teaming up. Another thing is timing, really? before an expansion? What? Why? Seems like terrible timing.

Granted COVID came up, but then again they could have most likely reverted it and said they would experiment during another time frame as we know, it is an "experiment". Can you imagine a new couple getting into ESO, "Hey cool this game seems neat! Let's try PvP together!" "Oh wait.. teaming up isnt allowed in a mmo hmmm. "Let's try cyro for group PvP, oh wait whats that? You might not have the best computer specs or connection to handle the lag? Here comes the lag party to come slaughter us! Hurray!"

"It's like when I did medical research on patient's [...]" and there probably was a time frame. However that time frame has probably also been pushed forward due to everything else going on, because like you said yourself "Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted". At the moment there is no way of knowing.

But based on what was said in his statement you can conclude nothing really changed as there is no marked improvement or large change in player numbers. Thus so far my objective opinion is it's a fail experiment.

"[...] It's a poor experiment/research practice [...]" what would be the alternative? Like I said myself, for example "[...] it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes" but beyond that I don't know how to improve their practices. And regarding changes, it's a lot down to their base coding. I would prefer if the "solo queue experiment" was a single patch update that had no ties to other changes.

Granted that these were changes for "performance" in there words what ever that may be, but this experiment I felt could have been done better. If i were to do drastic changes like they did under an "experiment" I would guise it under as a event for a option to do solo que and state it as a secondary temporary option with the current regular que in the case that it does become a complete disaster rather than just removing a feature thats already working. This would lead to the infamous "we want 2 ques" which i highly disagree on because as the dev stated it would fragment the ques of course unless they make that second que a ranked que.. Give some reward for playing it and give a box at the end of the matches in either type you play before leaving if they enjoyed the match, disliked it, or felt neutral about it, and maybe a section if they want to leave a comment. The more games you play the more rewards you get (Then they get the mean average of your reaction of all the games you played to have it calculated) then be processed with everyone else at the end of the experiment to see what people felt during the games. Then finally at the end of the event distribute a small questionnaire to gauge the players that they can sign up for to express there reactions and feelings towards the experiment, which is scored up to see how likable the idea was, or maybe if it's just because of the group finder in general. As well as give incentive to those willing to answer it as they given there time to help make ESO a better game. I'm not saying my idea is perfect, and may be a smart one, but I'de rather not remove things from my players just because.

As a side note if it was a problem with the group finder as some may say, then I really don't see the purpose of removing grouping in BG's. If they "decided" to return grouping it would just break there system again since they are only testing for solo ques.

"[...] these forums are more filled with bring grouping back [...]" and before that we had most people begging for an introduction of solo queues and people didn't make threads back then about how "I love playing in a group". People mainly come to the forum when they have something to complain about. From my own experience, with people in BGs, people seem to enjoy the solo queues over the group queues. , so I have no idea how many people that are dissatisfied with it. Well, a part from you

Granted, and I 100% agree that complainers will complain on forums I came on these forums, and found out how to log in as soon as I saw the patch notes.

So first from my personal experience with BG's solo play, it's no different than previous BG's there always a alpha group, sometimes theres 2 alpha groups ganging on the beta groups spawn for points. No one in chat saying "WOW SOLO PLAY IS SO AMAZING" I see more saying things like "MAN THAT GUYS CLASS IS OP!" "WHY DID THEY PUT ALL THE SWEATY SORCS AND TEMPLARS IN ONE TEAM" "NB! RABLE RABLE RABLE!" "THAT GUY ON MY TEAM ISN'T PULLING HIS WEIGHT! HE'S NOTING DOING MY REQUIRED AMOUNT OF DAMAGE!!!" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE DO THE OBJECTIVE!! PLEASEEE!! THIS ISN'T DEATH MATCH!" "RANDOM CURSE WORDS, THEN LEAVES BATTLEGROUND" "WE HAVE NO HEALER, WAHH WAHHHH WAHHHH" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE STICK TOGETHER?" "YOU ALL SUCK"- 0/20/0

I also never said I knew how many people are dissatisfied, but I did announced it in-game in many zones and got more negative feedback rather than hurray hurrah!, as well as those who were oblivious to the change, my purpose was to promote people to go on the forums and give there feedback to hopefully stop what they just dumped on people!

I can see where you can have that assumption that I act like I'm all knowing which I can humbly say that I really am not, but let's be honest hear, ZOS doesn't care to share any information with people even as simple as something like BG, and how MMR works

And as a fellow intellectual, I'de suggest you not put out to many BS contradictions and exaggerate some of your statements in things like

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

and

'But then again, I don't know anyone that preferred playing in a group before this change"

In the same argument how would you claim your first statement if your second statement claims you know nobody? Then again maybe you somehow know the statistics for every type of player that left the game for certain reason which none of us has access too, as well as the apparent knowledge about how they coded the game

If you read my OP, I clearly state these are my objective opinions, I admit I have no numbers, or statistic to back anything up just speculations and concerns for the game i came to enjoy. ESO is an amazing game, but they done something really dirty this time. I'm only using my visual, and personal experience to see subjective opinion's from others to come up with my own conclusion. From an honest stand point prepatch of grouping removals, not to honk my own horn, but even if I played solo, and I did exceptionally well in my team, I would get hate whisper claiming I'm in a premade, and thats the only reason I'm good. So if you ask why would I want to group with others if I think I'm decent at solo play? In general I like spending time with others, and finding a way to bond with my family as those grow apart and we move our own directions. ESO was a good place for bonding. Doesn't mean I team up with someone we make a winning combo, sometimes we like to do jank things in BG's to see if they work to have fun. Which games were meant for.. To have fun.

But as a closing statement ESO ZOS dev's are most likely not reading these post nor care that we have anything to say, so at the end of the day as much as I'de like to believe, us debating over something like this is most likely pointless, we are pretty much just 2 locked up dudes in there rooms typing at air. Unless you were a dev, I'de take many of your words in mind, so to them I hope they keep working to make ESO better, and hopefully they give us our ability to play with friends/family.

Wow, that's a long reply!
First of all, apologies if I don't read everything, I was just about to go sleep.
Anyway, I don't know anyone personally that's quit BGs because they can't group up, but I have read people stating that they have. Whether it's true (that they quit) or not I have no idea. Sorry, I was being really unclear about the distinction, I partly blame a long phone call I had in the middle of my reply
"I can see where you can have that assumption [...]" absolutely not. I mostly view your PoV as something you're concerned with.
I mostly object to the part where you say "[...] it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced". To me it sounds a lot like you think ZOS deliberately tried to be ambiguous with the change, maybe even that they tried to fool the community, which I sincerely doubt. At least about the BGs... but for example, I have no doubt in my mind that they're not telling the whole story to why performance is the way it is, while simultanously being able to say things like "we're working hard on it".

EDIT: Btw, it's nice having a civil, maybe even constructive, conversation for once on these forums. Thank you!

Haha Np, i wanted to add a TLDR' disclaimer - Skip to certain point haha

I understand and can accept your objection, I just felt more like it was underhanded, and just came straight out of no where, especially if you don't read patch notes which I'm sure a lot of people would care to read since it's so much to read. More than anything they probably would just skip to class changes to see what there dealing with..

Thoragaal · June 2020

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

I agree with you to probably 99%. We're saying the same thing.
"Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers [...]" I 100% agree, that's why I'm saying "It's too soon to say anything" and many of whom which are/were into pvp ; ;

I can understand that, but again it's vague what they are doing.. and it's been a good while to just receive such a disappointing statement they gave to us.

Rich Lamber doesn't say anything about it being a success, he only states that "we haven't seen a marked improvement in terms of number of people playing". The only way they'd be able to draw some kind of conclusion from this "experiment" would be to compare old data with the new. But the current data is irrelevant, because: The performance issues has made many previously dedicated players to stop playing.

Unfortunately I never implied if he said it was a success, It was my objective assumption after what he said given the time frame that group pvp has been removed.

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

I'll come back to this statement.

The new chapter has just released and many players are busy with that instead of doing BGs ; Once greymoor activity settles down many players might gravitate towards trying BGs. So on and so on. It's simply too many variables to draw any kind of reliable conclusion of the current data. We have to give it more time.

Granted these "may" be hidden variables, but can we not assume most players would do the activities they love the most Pver->PvE PvPer->PvP Rper->RPing. Shoot there was even a time I just decided to design my home, and took 1 month of my time , and I'm still looking for ways to improve it, especially when they re-release pvp teaming up. Another thing is timing, really? before an expansion? What? Why? Seems like terrible timing.

Granted COVID came up, but then again they could have most likely reverted it and said they would experiment during another time frame as we know, it is an "experiment". Can you imagine a new couple getting into ESO, "Hey cool this game seems neat! Let's try PvP together!" "Oh wait.. teaming up isnt allowed in a mmo hmmm. "Let's try cyro for group PvP, oh wait whats that? You might not have the best computer specs or connection to handle the lag? Here comes the lag party to come slaughter us! Hurray!"

"It's like when I did medical research on patient's [...]" and there probably was a time frame. However that time frame has probably also been pushed forward due to everything else going on, because like you said yourself "Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted". At the moment there is no way of knowing.

But based on what was said in his statement you can conclude nothing really changed as there is no marked improvement or large change in player numbers. Thus so far my objective opinion is it's a fail experiment.

"[...] It's a poor experiment/research practice [...]" what would be the alternative? Like I said myself, for example "[...] it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes" but beyond that I don't know how to improve their practices. And regarding changes, it's a lot down to their base coding. I would prefer if the "solo queue experiment" was a single patch update that had no ties to other changes.

Granted that these were changes for "performance" in there words what ever that may be, but this experiment I felt could have been done better. If i were to do drastic changes like they did under an "experiment" I would guise it under as a event for a option to do solo que and state it as a secondary temporary option with the current regular que in the case that it does become a complete disaster rather than just removing a feature thats already working. This would lead to the infamous "we want 2 ques" which i highly disagree on because as the dev stated it would fragment the ques of course unless they make that second que a ranked que.. Give some reward for playing it and give a box at the end of the matches in either type you play before leaving if they enjoyed the match, disliked it, or felt neutral about it, and maybe a section if they want to leave a comment. The more games you play the more rewards you get (Then they get the mean average of your reaction of all the games you played to have it calculated) then be processed with everyone else at the end of the experiment to see what people felt during the games. Then finally at the end of the event distribute a small questionnaire to gauge the players that they can sign up for to express there reactions and feelings towards the experiment, which is scored up to see how likable the idea was, or maybe if it's just because of the group finder in general. As well as give incentive to those willing to answer it as they given there time to help make ESO a better game. I'm not saying my idea is perfect, and may be a smart one, but I'de rather not remove things from my players just because.

As a side note if it was a problem with the group finder as some may say, then I really don't see the purpose of removing grouping in BG's. If they "decided" to return grouping it would just break there system again since they are only testing for solo ques.

"[...] these forums are more filled with bring grouping back [...]" and before that we had most people begging for an introduction of solo queues and people didn't make threads back then about how "I love playing in a group". People mainly come to the forum when they have something to complain about. From my own experience, with people in BGs, people seem to enjoy the solo queues over the group queues. , so I have no idea how many people that are dissatisfied with it. Well, a part from you

Granted, and I 100% agree that complainers will complain on forums I came on these forums, and found out how to log in as soon as I saw the patch notes.

So first from my personal experience with BG's solo play, it's no different than previous BG's there always a alpha group, sometimes theres 2 alpha groups ganging on the beta groups spawn for points. No one in chat saying "WOW SOLO PLAY IS SO AMAZING" I see more saying things like "MAN THAT GUYS CLASS IS OP!" "WHY DID THEY PUT ALL THE SWEATY SORCS AND TEMPLARS IN ONE TEAM" "NB! RABLE RABLE RABLE!" "THAT GUY ON MY TEAM ISN'T PULLING HIS WEIGHT! HE'S NOTING DOING MY REQUIRED AMOUNT OF DAMAGE!!!" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE DO THE OBJECTIVE!! PLEASEEE!! THIS ISN'T DEATH MATCH!" "RANDOM CURSE WORDS, THEN LEAVES BATTLEGROUND" "WE HAVE NO HEALER, WAHH WAHHHH WAHHHH" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE STICK TOGETHER?" "YOU ALL SUCK"- 0/20/0

I also never said I knew how many people are dissatisfied, but I did announced it in-game in many zones and got more negative feedback rather than hurray hurrah!, as well as those who were oblivious to the change, my purpose was to promote people to go on the forums and give there feedback to hopefully stop what they just dumped on people!

I can see where you can have that assumption that I act like I'm all knowing which I can humbly say that I really am not, but let's be honest hear, ZOS doesn't care to share any information with people even as simple as something like BG, and how MMR works

And as a fellow intellectual, I'de suggest you not put out to many BS contradictions and exaggerate some of your statements in things like

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

and

'But then again, I don't know anyone that preferred playing in a group before this change"

In the same argument how would you claim your first statement if your second statement claims you know nobody? Then again maybe you somehow know the statistics for every type of player that left the game for certain reason which none of us has access too, as well as the apparent knowledge about how they coded the game

If you read my OP, I clearly state these are my objective opinions, I admit I have no numbers, or statistic to back anything up just speculations and concerns for the game i came to enjoy. ESO is an amazing game, but they done something really dirty this time. I'm only using my visual, and personal experience to see subjective opinion's from others to come up with my own conclusion. From an honest stand point prepatch of grouping removals, not to honk my own horn, but even if I played solo, and I did exceptionally well in my team, I would get hate whisper claiming I'm in a premade, and thats the only reason I'm good. So if you ask why would I want to group with others if I think I'm decent at solo play? In general I like spending time with others, and finding a way to bond with my family as those grow apart and we move our own directions. ESO was a good place for bonding. Doesn't mean I team up with someone we make a winning combo, sometimes we like to do jank things in BG's to see if they work to have fun. Which games were meant for.. To have fun.

But as a closing statement ESO ZOS dev's are most likely not reading these post nor care that we have anything to say, so at the end of the day as much as I'de like to believe, us debating over something like this is most likely pointless, we are pretty much just 2 locked up dudes in there rooms typing at air. Unless you were a dev, I'de take many of your words in mind, so to them I hope they keep working to make ESO better, and hopefully they give us our ability to play with friends/family.

Wow, that's a long reply!
First of all, apologies if I don't read everything, I was just about to go sleep.
Anyway, I don't know anyone personally that's quit BGs because they can't group up, but I have read people stating that they have. Whether it's true (that they quit) or not I have no idea. Sorry, I was being really unclear about the distinction, I partly blame a long phone call I had in the middle of my reply
"I can see where you can have that assumption [...]" absolutely not. I mostly view your PoV as something you're concerned with.
I mostly object to the part where you say "[...] it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced". To me it sounds a lot like you think ZOS deliberately tried to be ambiguous with the change, maybe even that they tried to fool the community, which I sincerely doubt. At least about the BGs... but for example, I have no doubt in my mind that they're not telling the whole story to why performance is the way it is, while simultanously being able to say things like "we're working hard on it".

EDIT: Btw, it's nice having a civil, maybe even constructive, conversation for once on these forums. Thank you!

Haha Np, i wanted to add a TLDR' disclaimer - Skip to certain point haha

I understand and can accept your objection, I just felt more like it was underhanded, and just came straight out of no where, especially if you don't read patch notes which I'm sure a lot of people would care to read since it's so much to read. More than anything they probably would just skip to class changes to see what there dealing with..

On a possitive note, people that previously didn't read patch notes or only read specific parts, might be more inclined reading everything in the future. It might even make people come to the forums more often

Something completely off topic though, but when I first started using these forums I found it unnecessarily difficult to sign up. I think I had to get some activation code I got when I first bought the game, but since I got the game on release it had already been several years. I had to contact support to get an activation code so I could just leave a comment.
So I can totally understand why many people don't even bother participating on these forums.

Commandment · June 2020

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Thoragaal wrote: »

I agree with you to probably 99%. We're saying the same thing.
"Even if they did "need" to do it using the live servers [...]" I 100% agree, that's why I'm saying "It's too soon to say anything" and many of whom which are/were into pvp ; ;

I can understand that, but again it's vague what they are doing.. and it's been a good while to just receive such a disappointing statement they gave to us.

Rich Lamber doesn't say anything about it being a success, he only states that "we haven't seen a marked improvement in terms of number of people playing". The only way they'd be able to draw some kind of conclusion from this "experiment" would be to compare old data with the new. But the current data is irrelevant, because: The performance issues has made many previously dedicated players to stop playing.

Unfortunately I never implied if he said it was a success, It was my objective assumption after what he said given the time frame that group pvp has been removed.

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

I'll come back to this statement.

The new chapter has just released and many players are busy with that instead of doing BGs ; Once greymoor activity settles down many players might gravitate towards trying BGs. So on and so on. It's simply too many variables to draw any kind of reliable conclusion of the current data. We have to give it more time.

Granted these "may" be hidden variables, but can we not assume most players would do the activities they love the most Pver->PvE PvPer->PvP Rper->RPing. Shoot there was even a time I just decided to design my home, and took 1 month of my time , and I'm still looking for ways to improve it, especially when they re-release pvp teaming up. Another thing is timing, really? before an expansion? What? Why? Seems like terrible timing.

Granted COVID came up, but then again they could have most likely reverted it and said they would experiment during another time frame as we know, it is an "experiment". Can you imagine a new couple getting into ESO, "Hey cool this game seems neat! Let's try PvP together!" "Oh wait.. teaming up isnt allowed in a mmo hmmm. "Let's try cyro for group PvP, oh wait whats that? You might not have the best computer specs or connection to handle the lag? Here comes the lag party to come slaughter us! Hurray!"

"It's like when I did medical research on patient's [...]" and there probably was a time frame. However that time frame has probably also been pushed forward due to everything else going on, because like you said yourself "Was it a constant increase? or was it just the highest peak before it plummeted". At the moment there is no way of knowing.

But based on what was said in his statement you can conclude nothing really changed as there is no marked improvement or large change in player numbers. Thus so far my objective opinion is it's a fail experiment.

"[...] It's a poor experiment/research practice [...]" what would be the alternative? Like I said myself, for example "[...] it would be nice if they had the option to revert certain changes" but beyond that I don't know how to improve their practices. And regarding changes, it's a lot down to their base coding. I would prefer if the "solo queue experiment" was a single patch update that had no ties to other changes.

Granted that these were changes for "performance" in there words what ever that may be, but this experiment I felt could have been done better. If i were to do drastic changes like they did under an "experiment" I would guise it under as a event for a option to do solo que and state it as a secondary temporary option with the current regular que in the case that it does become a complete disaster rather than just removing a feature thats already working. This would lead to the infamous "we want 2 ques" which i highly disagree on because as the dev stated it would fragment the ques of course unless they make that second que a ranked que.. Give some reward for playing it and give a box at the end of the matches in either type you play before leaving if they enjoyed the match, disliked it, or felt neutral about it, and maybe a section if they want to leave a comment. The more games you play the more rewards you get (Then they get the mean average of your reaction of all the games you played to have it calculated) then be processed with everyone else at the end of the experiment to see what people felt during the games. Then finally at the end of the event distribute a small questionnaire to gauge the players that they can sign up for to express there reactions and feelings towards the experiment, which is scored up to see how likable the idea was, or maybe if it's just because of the group finder in general. As well as give incentive to those willing to answer it as they given there time to help make ESO a better game. I'm not saying my idea is perfect, and may be a smart one, but I'de rather not remove things from my players just because.

As a side note if it was a problem with the group finder as some may say, then I really don't see the purpose of removing grouping in BG's. If they "decided" to return grouping it would just break there system again since they are only testing for solo ques.

"[...] these forums are more filled with bring grouping back [...]" and before that we had most people begging for an introduction of solo queues and people didn't make threads back then about how "I love playing in a group". People mainly come to the forum when they have something to complain about. From my own experience, with people in BGs, people seem to enjoy the solo queues over the group queues. , so I have no idea how many people that are dissatisfied with it. Well, a part from you

Granted, and I 100% agree that complainers will complain on forums I came on these forums, and found out how to log in as soon as I saw the patch notes.

So first from my personal experience with BG's solo play, it's no different than previous BG's there always a alpha group, sometimes theres 2 alpha groups ganging on the beta groups spawn for points. No one in chat saying "WOW SOLO PLAY IS SO AMAZING" I see more saying things like "MAN THAT GUYS CLASS IS OP!" "WHY DID THEY PUT ALL THE SWEATY SORCS AND TEMPLARS IN ONE TEAM" "NB! RABLE RABLE RABLE!" "THAT GUY ON MY TEAM ISN'T PULLING HIS WEIGHT! HE'S NOTING DOING MY REQUIRED AMOUNT OF DAMAGE!!!" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE DO THE OBJECTIVE!! PLEASEEE!! THIS ISN'T DEATH MATCH!" "RANDOM CURSE WORDS, THEN LEAVES BATTLEGROUND" "WE HAVE NO HEALER, WAHH WAHHHH WAHHHH" "GUYS CAN WE PLEASE STICK TOGETHER?" "YOU ALL SUCK"- 0/20/0

I also never said I knew how many people are dissatisfied, but I did announced it in-game in many zones and got more negative feedback rather than hurray hurrah!, as well as those who were oblivious to the change, my purpose was to promote people to go on the forums and give there feedback to hopefully stop what they just dumped on people!

I can see where you can have that assumption that I act like I'm all knowing which I can humbly say that I really am not, but let's be honest hear, ZOS doesn't care to share any information with people even as simple as something like BG, and how MMR works

And as a fellow intellectual, I'de suggest you not put out to many BS contradictions and exaggerate some of your statements in things like

Many BG players disappeared because they can't group up anymore and it's too soon to say if they will come back

and

'But then again, I don't know anyone that preferred playing in a group before this change"

In the same argument how would you claim your first statement if your second statement claims you know nobody? Then again maybe you somehow know the statistics for every type of player that left the game for certain reason which none of us has access too, as well as the apparent knowledge about how they coded the game

If you read my OP, I clearly state these are my objective opinions, I admit I have no numbers, or statistic to back anything up just speculations and concerns for the game i came to enjoy. ESO is an amazing game, but they done something really dirty this time. I'm only using my visual, and personal experience to see subjective opinion's from others to come up with my own conclusion. From an honest stand point prepatch of grouping removals, not to honk my own horn, but even if I played solo, and I did exceptionally well in my team, I would get hate whisper claiming I'm in a premade, and thats the only reason I'm good. So if you ask why would I want to group with others if I think I'm decent at solo play? In general I like spending time with others, and finding a way to bond with my family as those grow apart and we move our own directions. ESO was a good place for bonding. Doesn't mean I team up with someone we make a winning combo, sometimes we like to do jank things in BG's to see if they work to have fun. Which games were meant for.. To have fun.

But as a closing statement ESO ZOS dev's are most likely not reading these post nor care that we have anything to say, so at the end of the day as much as I'de like to believe, us debating over something like this is most likely pointless, we are pretty much just 2 locked up dudes in there rooms typing at air. Unless you were a dev, I'de take many of your words in mind, so to them I hope they keep working to make ESO better, and hopefully they give us our ability to play with friends/family.

Wow, that's a long reply!
First of all, apologies if I don't read everything, I was just about to go sleep.
Anyway, I don't know anyone personally that's quit BGs because they can't group up, but I have read people stating that they have. Whether it's true (that they quit) or not I have no idea. Sorry, I was being really unclear about the distinction, I partly blame a long phone call I had in the middle of my reply
"I can see where you can have that assumption [...]" absolutely not. I mostly view your PoV as something you're concerned with.
I mostly object to the part where you say "[...] it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced". To me it sounds a lot like you think ZOS deliberately tried to be ambiguous with the change, maybe even that they tried to fool the community, which I sincerely doubt. At least about the BGs... but for example, I have no doubt in my mind that they're not telling the whole story to why performance is the way it is, while simultanously being able to say things like "we're working hard on it".

EDIT: Btw, it's nice having a civil, maybe even constructive, conversation for once on these forums. Thank you!

Haha Np, i wanted to add a TLDR' disclaimer - Skip to certain point haha

I understand and can accept your objection, I just felt more like it was underhanded, and just came straight out of no where, especially if you don't read patch notes which I'm sure a lot of people would care to read since it's so much to read. More than anything they probably would just skip to class changes to see what there dealing with..

On a possitive note, people that previously didn't read patch notes or only read specific parts, might be more inclined reading everything in the future. It might even make people come to the forums more often
Something completely off topic though, but when I first started using these forums I found it unnecessarily difficult to sign up. I think I had to get some activation code I got when I first bought the game, but since I got the game on release it had already been several years. I had to contact support to get an activation code so I could just leave a comment.
So I can totally understand why many people don't even bother participating on these forums.

100% on point, same here. This is the first game where you have to send a ticket to a gm to get access to talk on the forums lol.

precambria · June 2020

Less people do BGs now I know this because I know basically all the regulars and high MMR players on PC NA, there is less of them now there is no mistaking it I can't even count how many people just quit since this change, if they showed us the actual numbers of people who queue and than re-queue before/after this change we would see that if their measurement of success if based on that this has been an abject failure.

Foto1 · June 2020

I am pleased with the experiment. solo players 2.5 years suffered from premade

Commandment · June 2020

precambria wrote: »

Less people do BGs now I know this because I know basically all the regulars and high MMR players on PC NA, there is less of them now there is no mistaking it I can't even count how many people just quit since this change, if they showed us the actual numbers of people who queue and than re-queue before/after this change we would see that if their measurement of success if based on that this has been an abject failure.

110% on the mark my dude.

Foto1 wrote: »

I am pleased with the experiment. solo players 2.5 years suffered from premade

That's good to hear, but can you prove these "premades" you suffered too were in majority of your matches, were you one of those people who ran into a group of 4 expecting to go rambo? There are many variables that could have caused your suffering besides the "premades". Time and experience doesn't always correlate/ measure the ability, knowledge, and skill level.

Just like now, there will still be that "premade" like team that is just grouped up with competent players with sweaty builds that will smash everyone else. As far as I can see, it's more or the less the same, but with less options to choose how you want to join the game.

fred4 · June 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

This is meant for people like me, who were waiting for them to finish this "experiment"

ZOS_SarahHecker wrote: »

Hey all,

At this time, there are no immediate plans to reintroduce group queuing for PvP Battlegrounds in ESO. We are focusing on game performance improvements, and monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback. If we do consider reintroducing group queueing for PvP Battlegrounds in the future, we’ll let everyone know.

Source https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526638/any-news-about-this-battleground-experiment/p4

As I stated before in these forums, it was a big change disguised as a "experiment". No "experiment" ever goes live in any mmorpg unless it was meant to be introduced. Now we can finally understand that a big part of the community kinda got s*** on. How can you "consider" putting back something when it's supposed to be an "experiment". Shouldn't it be directly " Will" be putting it back?

Actually, Lambert touched on the experiment that they are running in his interview. Apparently, as part of all of this, they were looking for an increase in single players who were reluctant to play against organized groups. As I recall, Lambert's comment was along the lines of "we haven't seen any indication of that".

I am one of the people who wrote BGs off when they were introduced. Solo queueing suits me, but I rarely revisit them. It's not the only issue they have / had:

(1) I don't like dying. This is not up for discussion. It's just a psychological fact. Success, for me, is defined by kill / death ratio, not by BG scoring, which I find stupid, incomprehensible and opaque, but most of all not reflective of my performance in any way that I actually care about. A simple "goal difference" would IMO be so much better. The plethora of non-Deathmatch modes is also not something I have any interest in. Perhaps in the long run, but Deathmatch would have to be made good first.

(2) BGs are no CP. Cyrodiil is unplayable most days. The knock-on effect is that I frequently play in IC. Historically at least, the place to be was CP IC, because that makes solo farming bosses much less tedious when there is a lull in PvP. As a result all my characters are geared for CP.

I know there are merits to no CP and some people prefer it. I'm only saying that open world statistically favors CP. IC is a reason for some of us. The other is because CP Cyrodiil is / has been the only campaign with any action on some platforms.

P.S. I have nothing against no CP. I only think that having two different PvP modes and only one type of mode supported by BGs hurts them, albeit I understand it's due to overall lack of players.

Alomar · June 2020

Nick_Balza wrote: »

I think, it's pointless to tell how much me and my friends are disappointed with this "experiment". And it doesn't look like experiment at all. Yeah, people were complaining about so-called "Premades" for ages, and ZOS satisfied their claim.
Any "experiment" has terms, conditions and detailed information what is about, what's the reason of experiment and when it ends. We got nothing from this vital information. Even newbies product/project managers providing not such pointless tests, but running A/B test, which shows obvious winner and raw data about what players really need and what kind of game they want to play.

Response from ZOS on this urgent question is dry and not really looks like

monitoring PvP Battlegrounds activity and feedback.

And it's late on 4 months. For 4 months people were waiting at least some information about this.

My friends and I have decided not to buy greymoor and canceled subscription, just because game is not providing fun and ability spend time together such as it was time ago, when we had ability to join some activities together.

I know that there are people, who are thinking in same way and want to play proper group PvP. I will support and group with anyone, who is about doing efforts to bring group activities back.

The thing is this change wasn't done to "satisfy any claims" or to be solo friendly vs. group play....it's worse than that. ZOS has openly stated on this forum this change was done for "performance reasons". Their failed battleground performance improvement patch last November was the last straw in admitting how broken their mmr system was. Rather than developing a new one or rolling it back, they do what ZOS does with all non-cash shop features and pushes a band-aid fix. Yet, uninformed people here and ingame feel like this was done to benefit their solo playstyle...like that's a priority in an mmo.