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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Will the Imperial City ever be fixed and give players a chance to opt out of PVP for story?
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Eifleber✭✭✭✭✭
It is? Thanks, that number was just to get the argument across ;-)Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »❆
Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU0 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Will dungeons, trials and overland content ever be fixed and give players a chance to opt out of PVE for story?8 -
Infectious1X✭✭✭I’m sure there are quite a few players here who actually enjoy having a hybrid zone, similar to that of nearly all zones in WoW. Some of us enjoy being able to grind, quest, level, etc all while simultaneously having a bit of PvP on the side. This is the ONLY hybrid zone in the entire game and of course there are those who feel the need to attempt to ruin it, all because they died more times in 6 mins than they have in their entire 4000 hrs of doing PvE.5
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sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭When are they going to fix the rest of the world and let me gank new players at their lowbie zones with open world pvp?
4 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Infectious1X wrote: »I’m sure there are quite a few players here who actually enjoy having a hybrid zone/quote]
Given the lack of population in IC at the best of times, you are correct, there are a few of you....0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I don't agree with what you said as being the real reason. Consider the following:
While it might not be "broken" in the technical sense (working as designed...?), there's something undeniably wrong with it that causes it to be widely disliked - and, as a result, largely empty most of the time, at least if we go by the population indicators on the campaign screen.IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
What you describe here is the life of pretty much every DLC after a period of time. We move on to the next DLC. That does not mean it is broken, especially considering it becomes a lot more active during IC related events just as other DLC zones become more active when they are involved in an event. So it is not broken at all.- IC is now part of the base game,
- It becoming part of the base game did little to improve its popularity,
- For comparison, Cyrodiil is (and was) part of the base game and it's still immensely popular, at least on PC.
- Also, BG popularity improved considerably after BGs became base game.
- Last but not least, PvP content is inherently not subject to the same kind of "burn out" as the (scripted, repetitive) PvE content does.
IC becoming crowded during IC-related events proves absolutely nothing - other than the fact that players like their lootboxes, or whatever other rewards the event drops. Which is just plain old human nature.
Case in point, the so-called "PvP week" of the 5th Anniversary event - a lot of PvEers showed up in Cyro for the town quest, even though some (many?) of them were using PvE gear and had no interest in any PvP, only in the lootboxes, some even going so far as to declare PvP a "detriment" to their "experience" of PvE farming the boxes.
In any case, outside of any related events, Cyro remains very popular whereas IC does not.
That is the case despite the fact that IC has (IMO) one of the best quest lines in the game, whereas Cyro only has some inconsequential fetchquests, so we can probably rule out any purely PvE reason for the difference in popularity between those zones.
IMO, IC is one of those half-baked ideas which sound good on paper but fail to work as intended in actual practice, due to the ever-so-pesky law of unintended consequences.
Everything breaks down somewhere around the premise of "(do PvE to) earn telvar from mobs and kill other players to grab their telvar too". Sounds nice in principle, but clearly it hasn't done IC's popularity much favor.
Nowadays we can also see a similar kind of design issue plaguing Cyrodiil: PvDooring undefended objectives is quite lucrative and has very few drawbacks, so naturally some groups do exactly that to farm AP without having to do any actual PvP most of the time.
You are certainly welcome to disagree. However, given that my statement holds up with every zone added to the game since launch my comment is very sound and has a lot of support from, again, every other zone added to the game other than the more recent ones.
Cyrodiil offers something different. An actual reason to be there as it strategy on the map, leaderboard, and constant rewards. That is the part that was left out of the PvP aspect of IC.
Of course, if OP means IC is broken because Zos did not incentivize PvP in IC well enough, then yes, that is correct.3 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like IC cause it's chaotic. I can go grab AIs to help battle and if I'm more aware I can help then assist me.PvP needs more love.1 -
CowNRB✭✭✭Fix what? sorry its not broken so you can't "fix" it. Yes i do think we need to add a story mode IC but remove everything out of it (like Tal var and keys frags) also think we need a dungeon set item reward box for people that pvp so they can buy the sets they want with ap.2 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.Wel .. there's 15.000 other quest in ESO, do the few in IC really matter that much?
Yes.Edited by TheRealPotoroo on 22 June 2020 03:25PC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_68505233 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭
There was a time when people would farm telvar to buy materials needed to craft their end game gear. The problem is most casual players and pve players don’t realize telvar is the best way to farm alchemy materials.
I don't agree with what you said as being the real reason. Consider the following:
While it might not be "broken" in the technical sense (working as designed...?), there's something undeniably wrong with it that causes it to be widely disliked - and, as a result, largely empty most of the time, at least if we go by the population indicators on the campaign screen.IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
What you describe here is the life of pretty much every DLC after a period of time. We move on to the next DLC. That does not mean it is broken, especially considering it becomes a lot more active during IC related events just as other DLC zones become more active when they are involved in an event. So it is not broken at all.- IC is now part of the base game,
- It becoming part of the base game did little to improve its popularity,
- For comparison, Cyrodiil is (and was) part of the base game and it's still immensely popular, at least on PC.
- Also, BG popularity improved considerably after BGs became base game.
- Last but not least, PvP content is inherently not subject to the same kind of "burn out" as the (scripted, repetitive) PvE content does.
IC becoming crowded during IC-related events proves absolutely nothing - other than the fact that players like their lootboxes, or whatever other rewards the event drops. Which is just plain old human nature.
Case in point, the so-called "PvP week" of the 5th Anniversary event - a lot of PvEers showed up in Cyro for the town quest, even though some (many?) of them were using PvE gear and had no interest in any PvP, only in the lootboxes, some even going so far as to declare PvP a "detriment" to their "experience" of PvE farming the boxes.
In any case, outside of any related events, Cyro remains very popular whereas IC does not.
That is the case despite the fact that IC has (IMO) one of the best quest lines in the game, whereas Cyro only has some inconsequential fetchquests, so we can probably rule out any purely PvE reason for the difference in popularity between those zones.
IMO, IC is one of those half-baked ideas which sound good on paper but fail to work as intended in actual practice, due to the ever-so-pesky law of unintended consequences.
Everything breaks down somewhere around the premise of "(do PvE to) earn telvar from mobs and kill other players to grab their telvar too". Sounds nice in principle, but clearly it hasn't done IC's popularity much favor.
Nowadays we can also see a similar kind of design issue plaguing Cyrodiil: PvDooring undefended objectives is quite lucrative and has very few drawbacks, so naturally some groups do exactly that to farm AP without having to do any actual PvP most of the time.
You are certainly welcome to disagree. However, given that my statement holds up with every zone added to the game since launch my comment is very sound and has a lot of support from, again, every other zone added to the game other than the more recent ones.
Cyrodiil offers something different. An actual reason to be there as it strategy on the map, leaderboard, and constant rewards. That is the part that was left out of the PvP aspect of IC.
Of course, if OP means IC is broken because Zos did not incentivize PvP in IC well enough, then yes, that is correct.
I think they need to make the actual sewer bosses drop gold material improvement, hakeijo, and other types of items used for in game. Add new motifs to the zone that can only be farmed by killing sewer bosses, molag, and the portals.
There are tons of easy things that ZOS could do to improve the sewers.
I would say leave the districts alone as they provide the most telvar gains via boss farming.
2 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭TheRealPotoroo wrote: »IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.Wel .. there's 15.000 other quest in ESO, do the few in IC really matter that much?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1
Imperial city is acting as designed. ZOS just needs to update/upgrade rewards for this zone.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no questing allowed in pvp areas
No questing without the risk of PVP in PVP areas, just as ZOS intended.TheRealPotoroo wrote: »IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.
While locker rooms would be a nice QOL addition, there's nothing preventing players from switching to a build meant for PVP for minimal costs and delays. Or vice versa. My MagDK is both a PVP Healer and a PVE tank, and I manually swap stuff around without add-ons.
You can also do reasonably well in IC with modifying your PVE style Instead of a full switch around. When I go in on my PVE characters, I tend to swap one of my PVE sets for impen Plague Doctor, which is fairly cheap and makes me look just bulky enough to give the gankers pause and me a fighting chance in an ambush.
There's something indefensible here, but I think its deliberately failing to prepare for PVP in a PvPvE zone, and then whining when it turns out you prepared to fail.3 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.Wel .. there's 15.000 other quest in ESO, do the few in IC really matter that much?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1
Imperial city is acting as designed. ZOS just needs to update/upgrade rewards for this zone.
The way it's designed is totally broken, for reasons explained ad nauseum.VaranisArano wrote: »no questing allowed in pvp areas
No questing without the risk of PVP in PVP areas, just as ZOS intended.TheRealPotoroo wrote: »IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.
While locker rooms would be a nice QOL addition, there's nothing preventing players from switching to a build meant for PVP for minimal costs and delays. Or vice versa. My MagDK is both a PVP Healer and a PVE tank, and I manually swap stuff around without add-ons.
You can also do reasonably well in IC with modifying your PVE style Instead of a full switch around. When I go in on my PVE characters, I tend to swap one of my PVE sets for impen Plague Doctor, which is fairly cheap and makes me look just bulky enough to give the gankers pause and me a fighting chance in an ambush.
There's something indefensible here, but I think its deliberately failing to prepare for PVP in a PvPvE zone, and then whining when it turns out you prepared to fail.
To have a build that's remotely competitive in PVP a PVE player must change everything from sets to CP and even rotation. ZOS flat out refuse to make this feasible. Pretending this is remotely acceptable is indefensible. All we want is the quests.Edited by TheRealPotoroo on 22 June 2020 22:00PC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_68505232 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭TheRealPotoroo wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.Wel .. there's 15.000 other quest in ESO, do the few in IC really matter that much?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1
Imperial city is acting as designed. ZOS just needs to update/upgrade rewards for this zone.
The way it's designed is totally broken, for reasons explained ad nauseum.VaranisArano wrote: »no questing allowed in pvp areas
No questing without the risk of PVP in PVP areas, just as ZOS intended.TheRealPotoroo wrote: »IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.
While locker rooms would be a nice QOL addition, there's nothing preventing players from switching to a build meant for PVP for minimal costs and delays. Or vice versa. My MagDK is both a PVP Healer and a PVE tank, and I manually swap stuff around without add-ons.
You can also do reasonably well in IC with modifying your PVE style Instead of a full switch around. When I go in on my PVE characters, I tend to swap one of my PVE sets for impen Plague Doctor, which is fairly cheap and makes me look just bulky enough to give the gankers pause and me a fighting chance in an ambush.
There's something indefensible here, but I think its deliberately failing to prepare for PVP in a PvPvE zone, and then whining when it turns out you prepared to fail.
To have a build that's remotely competitive in PVP a PVE player must change everything from sets to CP and even rotation. ZOS flat out refuse to make this feasible. Pretending this is remotely acceptable is indefensible. All we want is the quests.
You don’t have to change anything just wear pvp gear. Everything in there dies fast even with pvp gear on.
Don’t have to min max which is essentially overland zone6 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheRealPotoroo wrote: »IC is not broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together. Like all other DLC zones it was immensely popular in its early days and like all other DLC zones, it's popularity wanes some with time. But it is not broken.
IC is totally broken broken because it has PvP and PvE mixed together, which is why the OP's wish is never going to go away as long as ESO is around. We know from years of bitter experience that the two modes are utterly incompatible to the point where they are essentially different games. Adding insult to injury is the fact that ZOS refuse to provide a locker room so that players can switch between different builds for each mode without penalty or delay. This means that PVE players are always at a huge disadvantage in IC, which is indefensible.
And having PvE and PvP mixed together is broken because...you don't like it? Personally, I love it. I know quite a few other people who enjoy it too. Of course, there're those that don't, but there're people who dislike every aspect of the game, from fishing to trials, if ZOS added content on the 'we need to make it so no one dislikes it' premise, they'd never add anything at all.
Imho the only problem IC has is it needs more incentive for actual PvP. You're free to disagree, but you're also free to not go there.
Well in this case you'll just have to grit your teeth, get yourself some PvP gear, briefly readup on PvP basics and go in, accepting the risk. There's nothing broken here. You're consciously making a choice of going into a PvP enabled zone because you find the rewards important enough to do so.Edited by Magdalina on 29 June 2020 18:012 -
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etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a PVE player I would certainly like a non PVP version of IC for the story parts of it. I'd agree entirely though that some of the PvP rewards don't belong in a PvE version. It probably also ought to be a separate instance so we don't confuse the PvP version and it's not like cyrodiil where very PvE player joins a campaign at level 10, clicks through the mindless tutorial, gets 3 skill points and rapids and then quits.
Too many toons not enough time1 -
VaranisArano wrote: »There's nothing to "fix" about Imperial City being PvPvE content. That's precisely how it was designed and intended.
Now, I'm fine with an additional "story-mode" Imperial City as long as it removes ALL of the rewards and achievements. Those were designed to be gained with the risk of PVP. You don't get to "opt out" of intended risk without also "opting out" of the rewards. While we're at it, perhaps we can get a similarly reward-less "story mode" for dungeons and trials for people who dislike/can't do group content.
I understand this sentiment, but a PvE-only story mode is completely unnecessary. It's not even that long of a quest line.
OP just grab some buddies or hire a PvP veteran to protect you while you do the group event portions of the quests.
I am trying to do the main Imperial City story right now, but I can't because I keep getting ganked. So I know for a fact that you are completely wrong forever. I am not having any fun in the Imperial City, in fact it's quite upsetting that my time is being completely wasted, not to mention the complete breaking of immersion.
The ones defending are mainly just suffering Cognitive Dissonance because they are defending the games honor.1 -
VaranisArano wrote: »Why would any self respecting PVP player not want this change?
If you are a real PVP player and you go into a PVP zone it should mean that you want to fight other players. The typical PVE player trying to quest has no intention of ability to fight. Any PVP player who gets satisfaction from killing a player like that is a joke.
I would love to go into IC or Cyro and know that all the other players actually want to PVP.
The way I see it, everyone in Cyrodiil or Imperial City may not want to PVP, but they definitely DO want to be in a PVP-enabled zone. They willingly and deliberately queued up for those PvPvE zones. They decided whatever reward they entered the zone to acquire was worth the risk of PVP.
The continuation of the main story takes place in the Imperial City. A lot of people want to complete the story2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LordProteus wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Why would any self respecting PVP player not want this change?
If you are a real PVP player and you go into a PVP zone it should mean that you want to fight other players. The typical PVE player trying to quest has no intention of ability to fight. Any PVP player who gets satisfaction from killing a player like that is a joke.
I would love to go into IC or Cyro and know that all the other players actually want to PVP.
The way I see it, everyone in Cyrodiil or Imperial City may not want to PVP, but they definitely DO want to be in a PVP-enabled zone. They willingly and deliberately queued up for those PvPvE zones. They decided whatever reward they entered the zone to acquire was worth the risk of PVP.
The continuation of the main story takes place in the Imperial City. A lot of people want to complete the story
Yep. The continuation of the main quest takes place in a PVP-enabled zone. It's up to you to decide whether experiencing the quest (or whatever other reason people want to go to IC) is worth willingly queuing up for a PVP-enabled zone and enduring the risk of PVP.1 -
VaranisArano wrote: »LordProteus wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Why would any self respecting PVP player not want this change?
If you are a real PVP player and you go into a PVP zone it should mean that you want to fight other players. The typical PVE player trying to quest has no intention of ability to fight. Any PVP player who gets satisfaction from killing a player like that is a joke.
I would love to go into IC or Cyro and know that all the other players actually want to PVP.
The way I see it, everyone in Cyrodiil or Imperial City may not want to PVP, but they definitely DO want to be in a PVP-enabled zone. They willingly and deliberately queued up for those PvPvE zones. They decided whatever reward they entered the zone to acquire was worth the risk of PVP.
The continuation of the main story takes place in the Imperial City. A lot of people want to complete the story
Yep. The continuation of the main quest takes place in a PVP-enabled zone. It's up to you to decide whether experiencing the quest (or whatever other reason people want to go to IC) is worth willingly queuing up for a PVP-enabled zone and enduring the risk of PVP.
We can conclude then a lack of general intelligence regarding the decision to put the main story in a PVP zone where a lot of people will be unable to experience it.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LordProteus wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »LordProteus wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Why would any self respecting PVP player not want this change?
If you are a real PVP player and you go into a PVP zone it should mean that you want to fight other players. The typical PVE player trying to quest has no intention of ability to fight. Any PVP player who gets satisfaction from killing a player like that is a joke.
I would love to go into IC or Cyro and know that all the other players actually want to PVP.
The way I see it, everyone in Cyrodiil or Imperial City may not want to PVP, but they definitely DO want to be in a PVP-enabled zone. They willingly and deliberately queued up for those PvPvE zones. They decided whatever reward they entered the zone to acquire was worth the risk of PVP.
The continuation of the main story takes place in the Imperial City. A lot of people want to complete the story
Yep. The continuation of the main quest takes place in a PVP-enabled zone. It's up to you to decide whether experiencing the quest (or whatever other reason people want to go to IC) is worth willingly queuing up for a PVP-enabled zone and enduring the risk of PVP.
We can conclude then a lack of general intelligence regarding the decision to put the main story in a PVP zone where a lot of people will be unable to experience it.
I think it made a lot more sense when it was released, much closer to when ZOS still thought the Alliance War was a pretty good end game for players (And it's based off of Darkness Falls).
Obviously, the general failure of Imperial City in a mostly PVE-centric franchise rather put paid to that idea, but it wasn't necessarily something ZOS saw coming,1