ZOS, any chance for a global Action House?

justaquickword

Salix_alba wrote: »

no

How very constructive.

You do know nothing in the game is mandatory right?

🙄

JKorr

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I hate the current system... the TTC website is easy to use but the fact that you need a 3rd party site to buy stuff in game without getting ripped off or wasting time teleporting all over tamriel is ridiculous.

The existence of the TTC website and people using it to in fact circumvent the guild kiosk system and treat it as a global auction house -- that's strong evidence a lot of people in fact want a global auction house.
If those people who don't want one in fact refuse to use TTC or MM or anything of the sort at all, then that's something to discuss.

You also see a lot of complaining about how people list stuff on TTC at a lowball price, then pull it and relist it at a higher price. So you might be seeing strong evidence that a lot of people want an easier way to play the market/scam buyers. Not to mention some people don't want to take the time to visit the traders "in person" so to speak, to find bargains to buy and use or flip.

All of which points to people wanting a system that works like a global auction house because they are in effect using one.
If someone wants to argue against a global auction house, then they are being hypocritical if they are in effect using one even through third party providers.

um...no.

I'm using the current system. My one trading guild [I have 3 other social guilds that have traders too, but they aren't specifically "trading" guilds] does NOT have a space in one of the major "hub" towns. When I bother to put my mats out for sale, using MM for an idea of prices, I can end up with over 65k, for less than 30 items. In my non-trading guilds that have traders I'll put the duplicate recipes and motifs I end up with, priced at "guildies' prices" because I'm not trying to make tons of gold here. Whether any of my gms bother with TTC I have no idea. I never use it.

Daenyres wrote: »

I wish!!! I absolutely loathe the trading in this game. Everyone who shoots it down is benefiting from it, they have a trading guild , etc. Yes it's so dumb. You have to join a guild, all their rules and fees, then you get 30 slots and it lasts 30 days!!! I don't want to list something for 30 days. I wish it was like SWTOR. But they won't do it bc too many people like it for personal benefit. It's also a huge pita trying to figure out what things cost. And don't tell me about the add on, I play on PS4. Oh and don't forget that you have to join a guild, then they have a trader somewhere, and you have to hope your item is listed for the correct price and that someone will happen to pass by the town your trader is in, then on your specific guild trader, then find your item and then buy it. Fing sucks so much.

I am ever so thankful that I don't play on console. The community must really suck, and have outrageous demands/expectations judging from what people have posted.

I'm in 4 guilds currently. One is specifically a trading guild. 3 are social guilds. NONE of them have dues. None of them have mandatory sales. The "rules" are basically the same for all of them; log in at least once a week, don't be an *** to your guildmates. If you're going to be away for some reason like deployment/business travel/whatever, tell the gm so you won't be kicked for inactivity. Considering you log in if you're playing the game, I don't think that is a terribly difficult "rule" to obey. I also don't find it a horrible imposition to not be a jerk to other people, so that rule isn't too hard to follow either. Yes, I get 30 slots. For each guild. I'm not ambitious enough to keep 120 slots filled constantly. Have I had some items not sell? Of course. It happens. Means I either priced whatever it was too high, or I picked something that no one needs at the moment.

Another hint; if you're in a good guild, you can ask people for a price check, if you don't just want to pick a reasonable number yourself.

Dusk_Coven

tmbrinks wrote: »

By that logic, anybody using the current system is being hypocritical arguing for a global auction house.

Not even close.
The existence of an ALTERNATE system to what is available is the indicator.
And people aren't really using the current system at all--they aren't running around hours a day just looking for what they want. They are using the alternate system to BYPASS -- to "not use" -- the current system.

If the existing system were so satisfactory, TTC wouldn't be anywhere as popular.
The CONSEQUENCES of a global auction house -- that's a separate conversation. Those who want it would of course do well to look at how other implementations have turned out.

tmbrinks

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

By that logic, anybody using the current system is being hypocritical arguing for a global auction house.

Not even close.
The existence of an ALTERNATE system to what is available is the indicator.
And people aren't really using the current system at all--they aren't running around hours a day just looking for what they want. They are using the alternate system to BYPASS -- to "not use" -- the current system.

If the existing system were so satisfactory, TTC wouldn't be anywhere as popular.
The CONSEQUENCES of a global auction house -- that's a separate conversation. Those who want it would of course do well to look at how other implementations have turned out.

I was being somewhat facetious.

I don't run around for hours. I shop at a few places that I know usually has what I'm looking for. My personal time isn't worth going to every stall looking for a slightly cheaper price. I still don't want a global auction house. The decentralized system (which ZoS by the way took a lot of pains to make, and promote early on as being "unique"), has kept the economy stable for 6 years now. Prices feel pressure, because you can't really monopolize any item because of that time factor. The very thing that many are whinging about "having to go to multiple stalls" is what has kept the market stable. Take that out, and it could get really ugly, especially for new players.

(But who care's about them, right? /s)

And yes, you need to include the consequences of such a change in this conversation. Why the hell would you change to something without talking about the consequences of that change. To not do so would be moronic. You can't compartmentalize this like you're trying to do. The whole aspects of the proposed change need to be look at. And, in my opinion, the negatives far, far outweigh the potential positives.

Dusk_Coven

tmbrinks wrote: »

And yes, you need to include the consequences of such a change in this conversation. Why the hell would you change to something without talking about the consequences of that change. To not do so would be moronic. You can't compartmentalize this like you're trying to do. The whole aspects of the proposed change need to be look at. And, in my opinion, the negatives far, far outweigh the potential positives.

Sure we can, to a certain extent.
People want a particular feature of the global auction house so badly they created virtually created one and it's popular.
So how are you measuring the potential negatives outweighing a single positive that's apparently so imperative?
Could it be that people will actually not care (or think they won't) about those potential negatives because they are happy enough with the specific features they want? They are asking for a global auction house because that's at the least tolerable in other games based on their experience, and in comparison they don't like the ESO system. It's unlikely that someone thinks, "global auction houses are horrible in other games I've played -- so let's replace this one with a global auction house".
If even the detractors are using an alternative that's close to a global auction house, using it to circumvent as much as they can from the existing system, then clearly there's something about the concept that's desirable.

Proceeding carefully is of course necessary to avoid the mistakes of the past (i.e., other games with an established history of using a global auction house).

katanagirl1

@JKorr I don’t think the PS4 ESO community is bad at all. Most guilds use Discord Dwemer Automaton for price checking in lieu of TTC, though I believe those are still PC prices.

If you want to get a good feel for prices just checking traders in Elden Root, Wayrest, and Mournhold is good enough. Now that console has a search option and search history, it’s extremely quick compared to how it used to be. Probably 30 minutes tops including those annoyingly long loading screens.

I used to spend hours sifting through pages of listings to find a single motif. Sorry but I can’t feel sorry for anyone who says it’s bad now.

I am in one trading guild that is donation based and generally has a trader in a capital city, though it might be Alinor or Vivec City sometimes. There are no egregious rules about pricing or sales.

lethality_ESO

The guild trader system is one of the coolest things about ESO that sets it apart from the other 23894728 watered down in the name of "quality of life" MMOs. This adds some nice dimension to it.

Only thing I wouldn't mind is a *smaller* version, in the form of an individual player shop.

Where, I could own a house, set it to a "shop" (allowing public access) and offer a limited few slots of items for sale. Perhaps, even limit the shop to a specific category of items.

Then, it would be up to the individual player to market themselves and make their shop "known".

Anyway, I digress

Hanokihs

I used to agree with wanting an auction house, because I'll always hate having to bounce around looking for specific things, but I hate crashes more. And like someone previously noted, the game can barely keep up with searches in a single kiosk, so I doubt it can handle global searches.

You wanna cut back on tedium and headaches? Pick three or four cities, make the rounds, and give up for about 24 hours on anything you don't find or don't find at a good price.

volkeswagon

Many ideas such as increasing trader slots from 30 to 40 or 50 would help. Having 10 traders in the capitals instead of the current 7 and adding 1 or two more to other areas

idk

justaquickword wrote: »

This doesn't need to affect guilds negatively or be a permanent fixture.

An auction could just be a regular event where all players can congregate at a certain place on the map to buy/sell items "off the cuff" as it were.
Weekly/Fortnightly/Monthly, whatever works best.

It could work much as an antique action works in real life. The guild stores are your antique shops. The rest of us are scavenging around in "Car Boot Sales" (Grinding), In the hope of finding a bargain to sell at the next auction.

I'd suggest this is the perfect time for such an introduction because the new antiquities are a perfect example of items that could be sold at such events.

This doesn't have to impact guilds negatively, in fact it could have a positive effect on them if bargain hunters come knocking prior to the next event.

Obviously it's open to abuse, but what idea isn't open to abuse?

I think the sheer thrill of making the impulse buy would make this a great regular community event if it was set up correctly.

Ironically, you start off saying this does not need to affect guilds negatively but offer no logic or reasoning to support that in the diatribe of creative reasons you think this idea will bring. It is almost like the first sentence is just a distraction.

The reality is Zos wanted a system like the current system. They specifically stated they wanted a decentralized system for both having a social aspect to trading and so that more common things are not completely devalued by everyone posted their item for a few credits less as is common with central systems. You have offered nothing to counter that. Nothing to change Zos' mind.

Nestor

Here is the thing, this system benefits both Dedicated Capitalists and Casual Traders while providing an effect Gold Sink that removes hundreds of millions in gold from the Economy. It also makes sure that Rare items remain Rare and take time to find. It also incentivizes farmers and players to list things for sale.

If I need something, i can find it in a trade center. If i want something cheap, i can find that in a rural trade area, which are mostly near a wayshrine.

Casual traders can join a lower scale trade or social guild and sell their swag. Dedicated capitalists can deal with the prime areas and the requirements of those guilds.

idk

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

By that logic, anybody using the current system is being hypocritical arguing for a global auction house.

Not even close.
The existence of an ALTERNATE system to what is available is the indicator.

This is pretty much a strawman argument. Besides, that people will go for the easiest route regardless of its merits, Zos is not going to create a second trading system.

The current trading system does cater very well to both serious traders and more casual players. It has created a very robust economy where millions of gold are traded each day on each server. If this system was not performing to Zos' expectations then it would have been replaced long ago.

Elsonso

ESO Live covered this a while back.

"Auction House. There's been some questions about whether that's something we're ever going to consider. It's not something that we plan on considering. While global auction houses would be convenient, they are not ideal for the economy of the game, so it's not something that we're planning to do."

Edit: It is one of the very few things that they have actually said they were not going to do. Most times, they add in waffle words.

idk

Elsonso wrote: »

ESO Live covered this a while back.

"Auction House. There's been some questions about whether that's something we're ever going to consider. It's not something that we plan on considering. While global auction houses would be convenient, they are not ideal for the economy of the game, so it's not something that we're planning to do."

Edit: It is one of the very few things that they have actually said they were not going to do. Most times, they add in waffle words.

Best answer yet. (the quote this person provided from Zos).

PrimusNephilim

ZOS: No

FlopsyPrince

I am in several trading guilds, but I would support eliminating the need for them in favor of a global AH at any point in time.

Things that are a real pain with this system:

- Finding something to buy - Running around to all possible sellers to see if someone has it is a complete waste of time.
- Finding a reasonable price to sell something - Same problem when looking for a reasonable price for an item.
- Having to join a guild merely to get 30 slots in a trader is rather silly. And I am in some good ones and give above their suggested amount each week.
- Searching for several things, even just in one trade hub, takes a lot more resetting the search and running between vendors than it should.

Really bad system, but we are stuck with it. The fact that this specific idea comes up repeatedly should tell ZoS that it really needs to be done, or something like it.

Adding a global search feature as noted here, where you still had to run to the vendor, would be an acceptable way to minimize this.

Further optimize the search options, including being able to look for things (recipes, motifs) I can learn, would also help.

I play on the PS4, so addons are not an option. ZoS has chosen to offer the game on the PS4 so saying to "switch platforms" is not a good answer.

Eifleber

I have no objection against local player stores ..

BUT

.. there should be a real time game-wide search engine to find what you are looking for.
TTC really is incomplete and outdated; the first 10 cheapest entries are usually already sold.
It even happens that the mentioned guild trader isn' t even there anymore.

From a relatively new game that could have learned from the mistakes of its predecessors and with 6 years to improve and streamline and perfect this really is the least we could ask for.
.

NavalOffisah

Eifleber wrote: »

I have no objection against local player stores ..

BUT

.. there should be a real time game-wide search engine to find what you are looking for.

......So there should be an auction house?

Having a game wide search engine is essentially an auction house, you are just adding a layer by wanting to keep local stores. If I can search for items game wide then store location becomes irrelevant.

Eifleber

NavalOffisah wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

I have no objection against local player stores .. BUT .. there should be a real time game-wide search engine to find what you are looking for.

......So there should be an auction house?

Having a game wide search engine is essentially an auction house, you are just adding a layer by wanting to keep local stores. If I can search for items game wide then store location becomes irrelevant.

It's a lot better than what we have now, imo.

I just hate to waste hours of my life traveling around to find something that may not even be available on the whole server at all, like rare furniture. I mean, it's not like there are only stores in each capital. Or 10 stores, or 20.

I liked the local stores in EVE (that doesn't have instant travel wayshrines) but how ESO does it is basically just annoying players.

Taleof2Cities

Eifleber wrote: »

I liked the local stores in EVE (that doesn't have instant travel wayshrines) but how ESO does it is basically just annoying players.

When you peel away that layer of "annoying", there are some very good deals out there for patient players.

Regardless, ZOS hasn't shown any interest in an Auction House ... and don't expect that to miraculously change to cater to players who don't want to be resourceful.

Luckylancer

VoidCommander wrote: »

So wouldn't you love to spend those 10 hours every week doing something that is actually fun? Instead of you spending millions of gold and hundreds of hours to provide free labor for the ESO community, wouldn't you prefer to just, have a global auction house?

This sums up everything. Guild traders are artifical chores. Game will be fine without them.

Eifleber

To let the fanatical trade guild people keep their trading pleasures I'd propose a real-time overview of what's for sale, an in-game comprehensive TTC so you at least know what's for sale and where.

That would improve matters already by 5000%.

As someone else proposed: have the option to even buy through the system for an extra fee (say +10%) or go to the shop and get it yourself.
.

FlopsyPrince

Eifleber wrote: »

To let the fanatical trade guild people keep their trading pleasures I'd propose a real-time overview of what's for sale, an in-game comprehensive TTC so you at least know what's for sale and where.

That would improve matters already by 5000%.

As someone else proposed: have the option to even buy through the system for an extra fee (say +10%) or go to the shop and get it yourself.
.

That would work much better. At least I could find something I want.

I don't think most people get ESO to play the "hunt for stuff on guild vendors" game.

idk

Eifleber wrote: »

To let the fanatical trade guild people keep their trading pleasures I'd propose a real-time overview of what's for sale, an in-game comprehensive TTC so you at least know what's for sale and where.

That would improve matters already by 5000%.

As someone else proposed: have the option to even buy through the system for an extra fee (say +10%) or go to the shop and get it yourself.
.

@Eifleber

It seems those fanatical trade guild people are the solid majority since the poll you created shows that not even 1/3 of the respondents want an auction house at all. That is a super minority.

And most of the other respondents say they want no change at all. Considering how well received the current system is and how it handled hundreds of millions of gold in transitions per day it seems that it is working great as it is.

Eifleber

idk wrote: »

It seems those fanatical trade guild people are the solid majority since the poll you created shows that not even 1/3 of the respondents want an auction house at all. That is a super minority.

And most of the other respondents say they want no change at all. Considering how well received the current system is and how it handled hundreds of millions of gold in transitions per day it seems that it is working great as it is.

If the voters on the forum are representative for the full playerbase I guess you are right.

Still I can not imagine that the average player actually likes it to travel around for an hour in search of some rare product. And in the end may not find it at all. It seems completely illogical that people actually want this.
.

Kwoung

Eifleber wrote: »

Still I can not imagine that the average player actually likes it to travel around for an hour in search of some rare product. And in the end may not find it at all. It seems completely illogical that people actually want this.

I keep seeing this argument in favor of a global AH, why? Is it so hard to load a single addon or visit a website that gives you exactly this information? The argument that I do not want to spend hours running around, but refuse to use addons or websites that keep you from having to do just that, makes no sense to me. If someone is actually running around searching vendors manually to see if those vendors have what they need at the price they want to pay, then seriously, those people are nuts. Yeah, MM & ATT will slow your game down, quite a bit, but TTC seems pretty lightweight and has all the info you need. How anyone plays without at least it running to let them know that staff they just looted is worth 400k gold, or the item on that vendor is way overpriced, is beyond me.

I like playing the trading game, I like buying the mats I need at the price I am willing to pay, and turning them into an item I can sell for a decent enough profit. Most of the time when the mats pop up for sale at my price point, someone got to them first, but then there are times I snagged them. An AH would pretty much guarantee I would never be able to buy what I need, unless I was sitting there hitting refresh on the AH screen all day, like most other games require you do. Even then I would lose, because AH bots always snag up desirable items instantly and re-list them at a profit. They prey on the uninformed and profit off it, as does the current system in ESO to an extent, except the entire player base has the chance to profit off a "steal", not just the guy with the fastest internet and well written bot.

Eifleber

Kwoung wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Still I can not imagine that the average player actually likes it to travel around for an hour in search of some rare product. And in the end may not find it at all. It seems completely illogical that people actually want this.

I keep seeing this argument in favor of a global AH, why? Is it so hard to load a single addon or visit a website that gives you exactly this information? The argument that I do not want to spend hours running around, but refuse to use addons or websites that keep you from having to do just that, makes no sense to me.

If TTC worked real-time and was flawless and integrated into the game (I even advocated this option) I d' say you are absolutely right.

But it isnt.

• lots of stuff for sale isnt listed on TTC
• a lot of stuff on TTC isn't for sale anymore (or at all)

1. After months of playing I get the feeling that or example a player want to sell stuff for say 5000 gold. What they do is list the same thing on TTC for 2500 gold as well so people come to their shop, not finding the cheap version but only the expensive one. The seller hopes the player doesn't bother visiting other shops (long loading times - why waste another half an hour tp' ing between zones while you could actually be playing the game) so may decide to buy the expensive one.

2. You can also count on it that the cheapest 10% listed on TTC is already sold - or not available for other reasons (see above under 1.). The chance that the cheapest entries are still there (or were there at all, there is no check) is about 2%. Very tiresome, annoying and time consuming.

3. Sometimes it even happens that the shop mentioned on TTC has already moved away from the registred location.
Is there any check that it ever existed at all?

If abovementioned problems would be solved i would agree with you.

I get the funny idea that some people can only think/argue from a sellers perspective, not from a buyer/consumer point of view.
Where it comes down to is that I JUST DO NOT WANT TO SPEND MORE THAN 5 MINUTES FINDING AND BUYING WHAT I WANT. Everything preventing this is annoying and taking away from the game.

As it is now: 1 to 3 Auction Houses > Guild Shops + TTC
.

idk

Eifleber wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It seems those fanatical trade guild people are the solid majority since the poll you created shows that not even 1/3 of the respondents want an auction house at all. That is a super minority.

And most of the other respondents say they want no change at all. Considering how well received the current system is and how it handled hundreds of millions of gold in transitions per day it seems that it is working great as it is.

If the voters on the forum are representative for the full playerbase I guess you are right.

Still I can not imagine that the average player actually likes it to travel around for an hour in search of some rare product. And in the end may not find it at all. It seems completely illogical that people actually want this.
.

@Eifleber

You are the one who created the recent poll. My guess is you would be singing a different toon if the response to the poll was not 2/3s against your opinion.

Not that it matters. As I mentioned in your thread, but you seemed to have passed over, there is a performance issue. Having a central AH, or even have it split into 3 as you seem to suggest, the query of searches is immensely larger creating a significantly greater load on the servers. It is a database and this fact about database queries.

Considering that we already have a performance issue that Zos has been struggling I doubt Zos would even begin to consider creating central auction houses as it would be a complete mess. ESO does not use tiny servers like WoW and FF14 so the queries here would be significantly larger anything either of those games has ever seen.

Tommy_The_Gun

I think that the best way to implement something similar to "Auction House" without pissing off a lot of dedicated traders who put a lot of effort into trading "end-game" is to add a "buy" option for the guild traders vendor npcs.
How it would work ? Very similar to current cod selling - but you will be able to post an "order" of what would you like to buy and for what price. Any player visting trader npc (whatever in trading guild or not) will be able to see that offer and as long as they have requierd item in their invetory - they will be able to sell it to you.

Tbh. This is imho the biggest problem with trading in ESO. Trader npcs don't act as traders - they are sellers as they can only sell stuff and are unable to buy stuff from players.

Eifleber

idk wrote: »

there is a performance issue. Having a central AH, or even have it split into 3 as you seem to suggest, the query of searches is immensely larger creating a significantly greater load on the servers. It is a database and this fact about database queries.

Considering that we already have a performance issue that Zos has been struggling I doubt Zos would even begin to consider creating central auction houses as it would be a complete mess. ESO does not use tiny servers like WoW and FF14 so the queries here would be significantly larger anything either of those games has ever seen.

Not sure how many you know about databases and servers but stuff like stuff for sale can easily be hosted on a seperate server. So big searches don' t have any impact on the game server (just like a huge Google seach doesn' t lock your computer as it is performed somewhere else). The calculations and searches are performed on the other server and only the results are transfered to the game server interface.

Next to that I bet all the stuff is already hosted in one big database (most probably one per server, like NA/PC, EU/Xbox etc) because if every shop had its own table, seaches within a guild shop would be performed within a blink of an eye. Which clearly isn't the case.

So it's actually not a very valid argument.

Next to that, as I mentioned in my previous post #88, I actually don't really care what system the game uses as long as I can find and buy whatever I want within 5 minutes.
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