ZOS, any chance for a global Action House?

tmbrinks

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

and that benefit is ENORMOUS, and absolutely the reason why the system should stay the same.

(also, I think you're massively overestimating how much money a trade guildmaster makes... in fact, most I know, lose money most weeks doing things to support the guild, like raffles, auctions, location bidding, etc... along with the fact that running a big trade guild is a 10+ hour a week commitment.)

Hotdog_23

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

Well said.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

Well said.

If you seriously think GM's get super rich and have easy ways to get lots stuff, you know nothing about how guilds run and work they take.
FYI... I have put in millions of my own gold for bids for guild, I make nothing. Thats how it is with most all GM's.
You know nothing John Snow...

VoidCommander

So wouldn't you love to spend those 10 hours every week doing something that is actually fun? Instead of you spending millions of gold and hundreds of hours to provide free labor for the ESO community, wouldn't you prefer to just, have a global auction house?

Personally I don't like doing work for free, but if you want to spend all that time working for the community, good on you I guess. The rest of us would like to be able to purchase things for the lowest price quickly and efficiently.

JKorr

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

Please, please, please say you have evidence for the guildmasters getting millions of gold for no effort.

I see this posted over and over. Except no one ever proves it. In one of the threads about the "oh so edgy stick-it-to-da-man " fake guild takeover of Rawlhka, one gm who was fed up with the claims "getting traders is super cheap and the gms are rolling in gold they scammed off the guildmembers" posted the actual bid cost for the trader that they LOST. I know how much effort my trading guild gm puts into the guild. There is no "rolling in millions of gold", let alone "rolling in millions of gold with no effort".

Hotdog_23

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

Well said.

If you seriously think GM's get super rich and have easy ways to get lots stuff, you know nothing about how guilds run and work they take.
FYI... I have put in millions of my own gold for bids for guild, I make nothing. Thats how it is with most all GM's.
You know nothing John Snow...

I freely admit I know nothing and even less than most. Just personally experience.

I have been in a guild where the GM did it to make money and once, he freely admitted it I left. So yes, some do it. Other guilds I am in I know they are not in it for the money and they do a lot of the extra work to make it happen keeping a trading guild. Some have even said they put in their own gold to do it and so I increased my donation to said guild’s I really don’t make any money in guilds because I over give on donation to the guild and I am fine with that after all it is about fun for me and not a numbers/job. When I responded to the post my thought was exclusively about my former guild and not meant about all guilds at all. Poorly worded on my part but still true of some.

MattT1988

Oh god this crap again. Just take no for an answer will you.

Beardimus

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

I'm not defending trade guilds. I'm defending a system that benefits the little guys that put effort in.

This tall of monopolies and fat cat trade guilds is very tin foil hat. If a trade guild is rich it's because it's well run and all 500 members are getting rich.

Also any monopoliser folks would have a field day in AH. Market fixing overnight.

Dusk_Coven

We can't even do a search on a SINGLE guild trader without long delays before search results and the occasional time when it hangs.
A global auction house like in SWTOR or FFXIV would be great, but I think it's beyond ZOS's ability.

Vyvrhel

MattT1988 wrote: »

Oh god this crap again. Just take no for an answer will you.

Just no.

VaranisArano

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

Having been an officer in a trading guild, I'm really confused as to where you think we were skimming millions of gold for almost noneffort. I seem to remember donating my time, effort, gold and items on top of my regular sales.

preevious

I already told a lot of times how the current system is actually far better than a global AH, so I won't extend the same arguments again and again.

I"ll just add that :

It's absolutely impossible to perform sur a drastic change on a system on wich hundreds of players invested so considerably, just to please a bunch of people who just don't want to learn to use it.
It would be a gigantic lack of respect and consideration to all those that put hours upon hours on this system to make it work.

I mean, it's not that hard, really. I'm as casual as one can be, and I still manage to find anything I need, and even make some gold with it.

Annomaander_Rake

it will never happen, and I'm glad it won't ever happen. I do not like global auction houses. there's no way to reliably get to good deals first. there would ALWAYS be someone watching for any good deal that popped up. at least the way it is now, you have to travel place to place to find the gems in the rough, gives everyone a decent chance of finding good, flip-able deals

Annomaander_Rake

and besides, the only reason some people are so hung up on this is that they A) aren't in a good trading guild with a high traffic location have no concept of pricing items at a rate where people will actually buy them on purpose C) are too lazy to go from place to place to buy what they need. None of the above reasons are very valid arguments to go to a global auction house that would have a myriad of its own inherent problems.

PS- Sorry for the second post.

Daenyres

I wish!!! I absolutely loathe the trading in this game. Everyone who shoots it down is benefiting from it, they have a trading guild , etc. Yes it's so dumb. You have to join a guild, all their rules and fees, then you get 30 slots and it lasts 30 days!!! I don't want to list something for 30 days. I wish it was like SWTOR. But they won't do it bc too many people like it for personal benefit. It's also a huge pita trying to figure out what things cost. And don't tell me about the add on, I play on PS4. Oh and don't forget that you have to join a guild, then they have a trader somewhere, and you have to hope your item is listed for the correct price and that someone will happen to pass by the town your trader is in, then on your specific guild trader, then find your item and then buy it. Fing sucks so much.

Daenyres

Ackwalan wrote: »

A auction house would really hurt the trade guilds. Perhaps a limited kind of auction house where you could only sell ten items a week might be doable.

so what? we could do w/out them anyway

Daenyres

VaranisArano wrote: »

Casual Trading:

Step 1: use guildfinder or ask in zone chat for a casual trade guild with low or no requirements that fit how you like to play. I've never had a problem finding guilds that fit me and I regularly see low/no requirement trade guilds recruiting.

Step 2: list items for approx the same price as your guildmates. Yeah, it'll take a bit to get a feel for your good selling price especially if you are selling rarer items, but that's honestly how I learned to trade without add-ons. List, see what sells, relist if needed; its casual sales - if you need to empty your listings quick to manage inventory, throw the ESO equivalent of an "Everything Must Go!" sale.

except when no one is selling what you are and your item lists for 30 days at a time

Daenyres

VoidCommander wrote: »

A lot of people here are saying things defending the trade guilds. Like okay, sure, those guildmasters will no longer have a way to get millions of gold for almost no effort anymore. Yes it would be disruptive to those trading guilds, but at the end of the day, why would you care?

Hear me out. Would it have made sense for the world to not adopt cars as transportation, solely because it would hurt the horse breeding industry (trade guilds in this case)?

Point being that most trade guilds are only there so people have the PRIVILEGE of selling their wares to other players passively. This serves little purpose, and having a global auction house would benefit everyone except for the equivalent of the top 1% of the ESO community.

The only benefit I can see from the current trading structure in ESO is that it makes fixing the market for certain goods much more difficult.

louder for those in the back

Taleof2Cities

Daenyres wrote: »

I wish!!! I absolutely loathe the trading in this game. Everyone who shoots it down is benefiting from it, they have a trading guild , etc. Yes it's so dumb. You have to join a guild, all their rules and fees, then you get 30 slots and it lasts 30 days!!! I don't want to list something for 30 days. I wish it was like SWTOR. But they won't do it bc too many people like it for personal benefit. It's also a huge pita trying to figure out what things cost. And don't tell me about the add on, I play on PS4. Oh and don't forget that you have to join a guild, then they have a trader somewhere, and you have to hope your item is listed for the correct price and that someone will happen to pass by the town your trader is in, then on your specific guild trader, then find your item and then buy it. Fing sucks so much.

As much as you personally despise joining guilds, @Daenyres, that's really the only way you're going to improve your trading skillset.

Especially on console ... where fellow guildies can likely help with tools and tips (including being able to price things correctly).

Of course, this assumes that you want to join a guild and improve yourself.

As the saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

The alternative is to keep making back-to-back posts like the 4 posts above mine ... until you're blue in the face about how the game design "isn't fair".

idk

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

We wouldn't need an auction house if they would make the trade guilds SEARCHABLE from a central location. They should also let you put down a deposit to hold the item until you can travel to the actual trader.

That’s essentially an Auction House, @Emma_Overload ... unless the global search did not include price of the search item.

Is that what you mean?

No. The items would still be stored at the individual guild traders. You would still have to travel to the trader to pick up the item. Traders would still have to belong to guilds to sell their items. And guilds would still have to bid for trading posts. All the mechanics that keep players milling about the cities would still be there, they just wouldn't have to waste as much time traveling through wayshrines (and loading screens) when they are shopping.

Here's what would be different:

1) Rich guilds would no longer be able to monopolize the market by hogging the best trading spots every week, simply because the centralized search would level the playing field for all guilds. Guilds might still prefer a spot on Rawlka or Deshan for prestige and bragging rights, but there would be no significant financial advantage.

2) Players will be able to find the items they are looking for quickly and place deposits on the items they intend to buy. In order to keep greedy players from locking up the market by placing too many deposits, the number of deposits per player could be limited and the length of time the items would be held could be limited, too.

3) Sellers would be free to list their items at ANY guild trader (that they belonged to) without feeling penalized or disadvantaged. Rich, greedy cartel guilds would no longer be able to demand ridiculous dues or fees from sellers, because all trading spots would be more or less equal. Even the smallest, poorest guilds would be able to sell their wares efficiently.

Hiding the price of the item as you suggest would just be irritating to the shopper. The whole point of centralized search would be to make shopping a more pleasant experience for the player.

First of all, it completely ignores one of the specific reasons Zos mentioned for the guild based trading. They wanted the decentralized to keep prices for items higher since a central system has players typically posting an item for 1 gold less than the previous item. In reality, Zos should find a way to eliminate Tamriel Trade from working while still letting guild leaders see how much each player sold that week.

In the end, those rich guilds you are complaining about are just better managed. Good guild leaders do make the difference though gold sellers enhanced by crown trading has messed things up some. Case in point about guild leaders making or breaking the guild. I was in a solid trading guild in the first year of the game. After the guild leader left the game those that took over did not have a clue and the guild was no longer able to compete and instead took to complaining in the forums. Fast forward a few years and those lame-duck leaders were replaced with someone that had the wisdom to turn that failing guild back into a successful one that is able to reliably get a good location.

Regardless, Zos clearly wanted a guild based trading system for the reason mentioned above along with others like having a more social trading system since guild members would more likely than not frequent their own guild store. The system works, guilds are constantly recruiting and there are plenty of guilds in good locations that do not have any required payment, only required sales. I know because I am in one.

Stx

I hate the current system... the TTC website is easy to use but the fact that you need a 3rd party site to buy stuff in game without getting ripped off or wasting time teleporting all over tamriel is ridiculous.

Tatanko

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

The alternative is to keep making back-to-back posts like the 4 posts above mine ... until you're blue in the face about how the game design "isn't fair".

They aren't even reading the (very valid) replies to the posts they are quoting. Their mind has been made up and no amount of logic and evidence to the contrary will make them change their stance.

katanagirl1

The game is attracting more casuals than ever the way it’s pushing werewolf updates, vampire updates, etc. Those are the things new players go for so they don’t have to worry about builds.

I used to see people asking for taxis to another zone, now I see them asking for taxi to some wayshrine within the zone.

This is a very complex game and I like the idea where you get more out of it when you put more effort into it, like guilds and traders. It was a game-changer for me, I went for years without one and wish I hadn’t.

Dusk_Coven

Stx wrote: »

I hate the current system... the TTC website is easy to use but the fact that you need a 3rd party site to buy stuff in game without getting ripped off or wasting time teleporting all over tamriel is ridiculous.

The existence of the TTC website and people using it to in fact circumvent the guild kiosk system and treat it as a global auction house -- that's strong evidence a lot of people in fact want a global auction house.
If those people who don't want one in fact refuse to use TTC or MM or anything of the sort at all, then that's something to discuss.

Taleof2Cities

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I hate the current system... the TTC website is easy to use but the fact that you need a 3rd party site to buy stuff in game without getting ripped off or wasting time teleporting all over tamriel is ridiculous.

The existence of the TTC website and people using it to in fact circumvent the guild kiosk system and treat it as a global auction house -- that's strong evidence a lot of people in fact want a global auction house.
If those people who don't want one in fact refuse to use TTC or MM or anything of the sort at all, then that's something to discuss.

TTC has it's limitations, @Dusk_Coven ... so quoting it like it's the bible probably isn't the best way to support your argument:

- TTC is never real time. It's only updated when players update their TTC client. Therefore, you're never guaranteed the best deal. Especially on high traffic items like raw crafting mats.
- Not every guild nor every player participates in TTC. In other words, great deals can be found under the TTC radar that are not reported on the website.
- TTC is NOT console friendly. Website updates are much fewer and farther between (versus PC) because there's no easy interface for Xbox and PS4.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you and I think about an auction house ... it's what ZOS thinks.

ESO has a unique trading system that works fine and ZOS has zero interest in changing it.

JKorr

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I hate the current system... the TTC website is easy to use but the fact that you need a 3rd party site to buy stuff in game without getting ripped off or wasting time teleporting all over tamriel is ridiculous.

The existence of the TTC website and people using it to in fact circumvent the guild kiosk system and treat it as a global auction house -- that's strong evidence a lot of people in fact want a global auction house.
If those people who don't want one in fact refuse to use TTC or MM or anything of the sort at all, then that's something to discuss.

You also see a lot of complaining about how people list stuff on TTC at a lowball price, then pull it and relist it at a higher price. So you might be seeing strong evidence that a lot of people want an easier way to play the market/scam buyers. Not to mention some people don't want to take the time to visit the traders "in person" so to speak, to find bargains to buy and use or flip.

Dusk_Coven

JKorr wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I hate the current system... the TTC website is easy to use but the fact that you need a 3rd party site to buy stuff in game without getting ripped off or wasting time teleporting all over tamriel is ridiculous.

The existence of the TTC website and people using it to in fact circumvent the guild kiosk system and treat it as a global auction house -- that's strong evidence a lot of people in fact want a global auction house.
If those people who don't want one in fact refuse to use TTC or MM or anything of the sort at all, then that's something to discuss.

You also see a lot of complaining about how people list stuff on TTC at a lowball price, then pull it and relist it at a higher price. So you might be seeing strong evidence that a lot of people want an easier way to play the market/scam buyers. Not to mention some people don't want to take the time to visit the traders "in person" so to speak, to find bargains to buy and use or flip.

All of which points to people wanting a system that works like a global auction house because they are in effect using one.
If someone wants to argue against a global auction house, then they are being hypocritical if they are in effect using one even through third party providers.

tmbrinks

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I hate the current system... the TTC website is easy to use but the fact that you need a 3rd party site to buy stuff in game without getting ripped off or wasting time teleporting all over tamriel is ridiculous.

The existence of the TTC website and people using it to in fact circumvent the guild kiosk system and treat it as a global auction house -- that's strong evidence a lot of people in fact want a global auction house.
If those people who don't want one in fact refuse to use TTC or MM or anything of the sort at all, then that's something to discuss.

You also see a lot of complaining about how people list stuff on TTC at a lowball price, then pull it and relist it at a higher price. So you might be seeing strong evidence that a lot of people want an easier way to play the market/scam buyers. Not to mention some people don't want to take the time to visit the traders "in person" so to speak, to find bargains to buy and use or flip.

All of which points to people wanting a system that works like a global auction house because they are in effect using one.
If someone wants to argue against a global auction house, then they are being hypocritical if they are in effect using one even through third party providers.

By that logic, anybody using the current system is being hypocritical arguing for a global auction house. (TTC is nowhere near a "global auction house" yes, it gives you information on what it listed. But it's only what's been uploaded, good deals never make it on to TTC, the information is never "trolled" by the add-on when the item is for sale).

You're talking about Dreugh Wax prices and their effect on Gold Clothing master writs in another thread. You go to a global auction house, and I would bet you see at least a 50% increase in Wax prices, if not more. Because now somebody, who has a lot of gold already will be able to run a script, quickly buy all the wax listed at lower prices, and resell them for higher. 1 person (or a small group) will be able to corner the market, for high use, valuable items, like Wax.

justaquickword

This doesn't need to affect guilds negatively or be a permanent fixture.

An auction could just be a regular event where all players can congregate at a certain place on the map to buy/sell items "off the cuff" as it were.
Weekly/Fortnightly/Monthly, whatever works best.

It could work much as an antique action works in real life. The guild stores are your antique shops. The rest of us are scavenging around in "Car Boot Sales" (Grinding), In the hope of finding a bargain to sell at the next auction.

I'd suggest this is the perfect time for such an introduction because the new antiquities are a perfect example of items that could be sold at such events.

This doesn't have to impact guilds negatively, in fact it could have a positive effect on them if bargain hunters come knocking prior to the next event.

Obviously it's open to abuse, but what idea isn't open to abuse?

I think the sheer thrill of making the impulse buy would make this a great regular community event if it was set up correctly.

Salix_alba

no