Hostile to all option for Cryodiil, the change the pvp community needs.

WilliamESO

Just nerf Block in pvp and nerf zergs like magicka deto skill ( above X players, their dmg are reduced by 50% or so)
Thanks me later
Eso World Best ever

Haquor

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I think it sounds like a good option. If youre working together then coordinate better. Not just spam.

TequilaFire

Man the trolling would be intense with collateral damage.
But at least I could kill that special person in zone chat. lol

amir412

It's good idea, but by now, you should have realized that this community wants you to play how they wants.
The majority are casuals, therefore anything outside casual thinking is not allowed.

TheFM

Id rather NOT have ZoS listen to streamers more. Some of them have good points, but making it so trolls can troll EVEN more is a big no no in my book.

TheFM

Cirantille wrote: »

TLDR but we need justice system

Like we should be able to hunt down all the trolls and kill them

If I had the gold for it I would put bounties on certain players heads to take them down a peg.

TheFM

Carespanker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

The thing is trolly players already troll their own factions though. Turn siege, steal scrolls to hand them off to their friends, and most importantly are toxic in chat... all these things would be avoided if they were not on your faction lol. As for pug farming, thats always going to be a thing as well... Instead of changing the player base to be pg rpers why not encourage more pvp in a pvp zone?

Yes, allowing them to chat in more than one chat at one time will DEF cut down on the toxic chat...wait.

Carespanker

TheFM wrote: »

Id rather NOT have ZoS listen to streamers more. Some of them have good points, but making it so trolls can troll EVEN more is a big no no in my book.

#1 im not a streamer and im actually against most streamers, but when they say we want servers to work, more ways to pvp, and more rewards for pvpers then yeah anyone should get behind that.

#2 Adding this would technically reduce trolling on your faction depending on your definition of trolling is in Cyrodiil.

Ulfgarde

Not really a good idea. Most problems would be fixed by just removing faction lock and adding actual rewards to PvP since it's crazily unrewarding to play in cyrodiil. Adding better rewards to pvp would incentivize smallscalers to play for the campaign and thus make the game world more interesting tactically. But this isn't the case which is why PvP community is basically dead.

x48rph

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Not really a good idea. Most problems would be fixed by just removing faction lock and adding actual rewards to PvP since it's crazily unrewarding to play in cyrodiil. Adding better rewards to pvp would incentivize smallscalers to play for the campaign and thus make the game world more interesting tactically. But this isn't the case which is why PvP community is basically dead.

Not really sure how faction lock keeps coming up. There's literally only going to be one faction locked campaign this patch so it's really a moot point and certainly not the cause of any issues now.

And sorry but they should not totally revamp how things work in Cyrodil just cause some people don't like it. I have seen some interesting ideas and stuff in this thread that could be quite fun but that needs to be implemented in a new environment/zone/whatever. Plenty of people enjoy cyrodil the way it is , or at least many aspects of it and don't want it "ruined"

Ulfgarde

x48rph wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Not really a good idea. Most problems would be fixed by just removing faction lock and adding actual rewards to PvP since it's crazily unrewarding to play in cyrodiil. Adding better rewards to pvp would incentivize smallscalers to play for the campaign and thus make the game world more interesting tactically. But this isn't the case which is why PvP community is basically dead.

Not really sure how faction lock keeps coming up. There's literally only going to be one faction locked campaign this patch so it's really a moot point and certainly not the cause of any issues now.

And sorry but they should not totally revamp how things work in Cyrodil just cause some people don't like it. I have seen some interesting ideas and stuff in this thread that could be quite fun but that needs to be implemented in a new environment/zone/whatever. Plenty of people enjoy cyrodil the way it is , or at least many aspects of it and don't want it "ruined"

"Only one faction-locked campaign" which is the CP one and happens to be the most populous. No-CP is another issue sure but CP is the "main" hub and no one is going to Haderus/Shor or whatever it's called now.

By issues I mean the one that OP brings up (like spreading out players, allowing you to play with your friends, etc.). These would all be literally fixed by the removal of faction lock. I didn't suggest any new mechanics other than make the game actually rewarding unlike OP.

The people who "enjoy" Cyrodiil in its current state are the ones who care the least about community and just care about rushing towards new keeps and getting an arbitrary rank. There is no sense of faction spirit, fun, or togetherness in this community. It's literally a bunch of brainlets rushing to keeps and then stacking when the hammer pops.

Keep in mind the small population of PvP compared to PvE and you will realize how let down we are. But ZOS has no reason to update PvP at all since it gives them little to no income compared to the far more active PvE population. Lmao

wazzz56

The fact that some of you look at rss farmers and such as "trolls" says an awful lot...the fact that some of you think the only way to play is large group because they give you the option for 24 person groups says a lot as well....maybe, just maybe, some people enjoy cyrodill but would rather play the game they bought in a manner they like...which by the way, unless you are the ones getting farmed for AP, it impacts your game play very little if any. And if you are in the 24 man getting farmed by a group on a rss or at an outpost or anywhere, is the problem with that small group or is it with you?

Carespanker wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

It is a complicated subject as those that enjoy small scale need to be satisfied as well as those that enjoy organized group play. The hard part is doing it in a way that is not at the expense of either play style because we have to face the fact that there are players that exist to troll and always find a way to do so.

Over my personal experience winning across all campaigns in PC NA, Ive come to realize that all types of players are needed to win a campaign; small scale, large scale, pugs, 1vxer's, trolls, zone generals, and so on. Even the players who don't play the map on your faction do their part for your faction as distractions for the other faction. As a good friend once said, "In Cyrodiil, we're all cogs in a clock and you need all the pieces to turn in the hands the right way." With that being said, I don't see it as adding more cogs to a working clock, I see it as making a whole new clock on its own. The zone trolls wont change you are right, but I'll tell you right now that a majority of them do just want to fight players with their friends and have a good time and giving them a place to do so would lessen their presence on your faction... and also add the plus side of being able to kill them after all these years.

this may be the most intelligent thing I have ever read on these forums.

Crixus8000

This is the main thing I wanted since I started pvp. Not having to be part of a faction would make the game so much more enjoyable with more fights to be had and then the faction loyalist guys wouldn't have to complain as much about people in their faction not helping map play.

pieratsos

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

You also realize that Cyrodiil is designed and intended for faction v faction fights over keeps, resources, and scrolls that organically generate those player v player fights?

Tower farmers set up on resources because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Ball groups set up in keeps or with scrolls because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Fights generate around Alessia Bridge and Chalman Milegates because those are chokepoint locations between two important objectives. We don't see the same fights at Horunn milegate or the Bay Bridge.

Cyrodiil's objectives are designed to create PVP from a population that actually cares about working as a faction to win the campaign. As someone who does play to win the campaign, I can't complain about the quality of fights I find. There's plenty of Player v Player every time I go out to play even though because I'm doing plenty of fighting at and for objectives that are important for my faction. That's Cyrodiil working as intended. If you pick the important objectives (not just farming at some resource or out of the way keep), you'll never lack for good fights with other players.

Define good fights

Knightpanther

Just take a look at what all of our pvp streamers have to say

I left the thread right there, who gives a *** about streamers, they don't speak for the pvp community only themselves.

Be safe

Mr_Walker

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

You also realize that Cyrodiil is designed and intended for faction v faction fights over keeps, resources, and scrolls that organically generate those player v player fights?

Tower farmers set up on resources because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Ball groups set up in keeps or with scrolls because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Fights generate around Alessia Bridge and Chalman Milegates because those are chokepoint locations between two important objectives. We don't see the same fights at Horunn milegate or the Bay Bridge.

Cyrodiil's objectives are designed to create PVP from a population that actually cares about working as a faction to win the campaign. As someone who does play to win the campaign, I can't complain about the quality of fights I find. There's plenty of Player v Player every time I go out to play even though because I'm doing plenty of fighting at and for objectives that are important for my faction. That's Cyrodiil working as intended. If you pick the important objectives (not just farming at some resource or out of the way keep), you'll never lack for good fights with other players.

Define good fights

Hit Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl. A good fight will come and find you very quickly. All over the place, suddenly and violently.

pieratsos

Mr_Walker wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

You also realize that Cyrodiil is designed and intended for faction v faction fights over keeps, resources, and scrolls that organically generate those player v player fights?

Tower farmers set up on resources because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Ball groups set up in keeps or with scrolls because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Fights generate around Alessia Bridge and Chalman Milegates because those are chokepoint locations between two important objectives. We don't see the same fights at Horunn milegate or the Bay Bridge.

Cyrodiil's objectives are designed to create PVP from a population that actually cares about working as a faction to win the campaign. As someone who does play to win the campaign, I can't complain about the quality of fights I find. There's plenty of Player v Player every time I go out to play even though because I'm doing plenty of fighting at and for objectives that are important for my faction. That's Cyrodiil working as intended. If you pick the important objectives (not just farming at some resource or out of the way keep), you'll never lack for good fights with other players.

Define good fights

Hit Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl. A good fight will come and find you very quickly. All over the place, suddenly and violently.

So fight in an out of the way keep or some random resources. Which is actually the exact thing he said not to do to get "good fights" 😂

Metemsycosis

I feel that the lack of a mercenary faction is just plain ole dishonest as to how war actually works.

BRogueNZ

It happens anyway but whatevs
as far as disruption and griefing goes, though the word is a little harsh, it's common enough to be expected

Solo I guess it would become meta or get out

Crown

I posted a poll about this same idea in 2017: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374719/if-there-was-a-new-non-faction-that-could-attack-any-of-the-existing-factions-would-you-play-it/p1

VaranisArano

pieratsos wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

You also realize that Cyrodiil is designed and intended for faction v faction fights over keeps, resources, and scrolls that organically generate those player v player fights?

Tower farmers set up on resources because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Ball groups set up in keeps or with scrolls because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Fights generate around Alessia Bridge and Chalman Milegates because those are chokepoint locations between two important objectives. We don't see the same fights at Horunn milegate or the Bay Bridge.

Cyrodiil's objectives are designed to create PVP from a population that actually cares about working as a faction to win the campaign. As someone who does play to win the campaign, I can't complain about the quality of fights I find. There's plenty of Player v Player every time I go out to play even though because I'm doing plenty of fighting at and for objectives that are important for my faction. That's Cyrodiil working as intended. If you pick the important objectives (not just farming at some resource or out of the way keep), you'll never lack for good fights with other players.

Define good fights

Hit Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl. A good fight will come and find you very quickly. All over the place, suddenly and violently.

So fight in an out of the way keep or some random resources. Which is actually the exact thing he said not to do to get "good fights" 😂

No...
This ought to be basic knowledge for anyone who plays the map or cares about objectives, but Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl provoke a quick and violent response from faction players because capturing them is a requirement in order to take both scrolls.

Those are pretty much the opposite of "out of the way keeps", at least as much as something off the emp ring can be.

idk

Just because you discussed this idea with a Discord server called PC/NA PvP does not mean you spoke or worked with most of the PvP player base. Many do not bother with that Discord server. At that, you spoke only with those interested in discussing your idea, probably not even most in that discord.

Regardless, Zos is not going to go for this. It is open for griefing and for mercenary groups to sell their help to the alliance of choice to help people get Emporer and whatever.

In the end, there is zero benefits to the game (a requirement Zos has for making a change) and only negative aspects that can come out of it. We will be required to be part of one of the three alliances as long as this game exists, and we play it.

InaMoonlight

Love it when someone feels entitled to speak for eeeeeveeeeryone...?

Raudgrani

I might want it, but NOT in Cyrodiil if so. Perhaps in some other new area. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever in the current Cyrodiil zone, "deathmatching" arond keeps and stuff. I guess most can agree to that. But surely, in an all new area. Preferably a forested area, or a city like environment similar to Imperial City.

Zelos

Lol do you really think the playerbase can be trusted with an idea like this? I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying that rage and hostility in cyrodiil will increase 10 fold... which is bad for business and for new players(which this game is solely here for, rotating new players for a couple months and then they leave). Its not a game for veteran players anymore:) it's a game for players who just want to overland and do quests.

Carespanker

Zelos wrote: »

Lol do you really think the playerbase can be trusted with an idea like this? I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying that rage and hostility in cyrodiil will increase 10 fold... which is bad for business and for new players(which this game is solely here for, rotating new players for a couple months and then they leave). Its not a game for veteran players anymore:) it's a game for players who just want to overland and do quests.

I absolutely would not trust eso's playerbase with anything- like we're really terrible people lol. Always finding new ways to break the game and then complain its broken to the devs who we claim don't care enough to give us more nice things to break- there's no pleasing this fandom. However, this particular idea is something intended to be broken for the best results leading to more interactions and more replayability for veteran players while adding more content for players to explore. To explain, you're right eso has no replayability after you did the expansions endgame trials, grinded out GO, and so on and you are simply only playing for interactions inbetween patches leaving cyrodiil as the best place chill and find said interactions. With this proposal, players would have the choice of sit around pvding afk in a faction stack or cause as much chaos as possible for more rewards to spread out the faction stacks to lower the lag and thus creating more interactions for all players.

Will it lead to toxic players? Prob, but we already have those. Will it lead to scroll trolls? Yeah, but we already have those. At the very least all these players would be hostile to ALL including other players choosing this option that they are not grouped with outside of a factions zone chat reducing zone trolls altogether and keeping toxicity where it belongs, in an aspect of the game that does nothing but help the servers keep the playerbase spread reducing the lag.

There's a lesson I learned when making the pvp discords (specifically AD because they're the most toxic faction on PC/NA) is that if you work against specific aspects of your community- toxicity specifically- you will never have everyones support (in AD's case it was about 40% toxic btw), so I built ways that the toxic playerbase of AD could be put to more use than fighting eachother in zone chat to achieve their goals for their faction. Its the same concept here, the pvp community will always naturally have toxic people; its in our DNA to be competitive and hate eachother that's why we like it so much so why work against it? Why not support it and direct it in a way that can be used for the betterment of all instead?

mague

Nope

pieratsos

VaranisArano wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

You also realize that Cyrodiil is designed and intended for faction v faction fights over keeps, resources, and scrolls that organically generate those player v player fights?

Tower farmers set up on resources because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Ball groups set up in keeps or with scrolls because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Fights generate around Alessia Bridge and Chalman Milegates because those are chokepoint locations between two important objectives. We don't see the same fights at Horunn milegate or the Bay Bridge.

Cyrodiil's objectives are designed to create PVP from a population that actually cares about working as a faction to win the campaign. As someone who does play to win the campaign, I can't complain about the quality of fights I find. There's plenty of Player v Player every time I go out to play even though because I'm doing plenty of fighting at and for objectives that are important for my faction. That's Cyrodiil working as intended. If you pick the important objectives (not just farming at some resource or out of the way keep), you'll never lack for good fights with other players.

Define good fights

Hit Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl. A good fight will come and find you very quickly. All over the place, suddenly and violently.

So fight in an out of the way keep or some random resources. Which is actually the exact thing he said not to do to get "good fights" 😂

No...
This ought to be basic knowledge for anyone who plays the map or cares about objectives, but Arrius/Glademist/Faregyl provoke a quick and violent response from faction players because capturing them is a requirement in order to take both scrolls.

Those are pretty much the opposite of "out of the way keeps", at least as much as something off the emp ring can be.

Well pretty much nothing is out of the way keeps

Heimdarm

While I do not support the original idea of this thread, I think there could be a 4th rogue faction in cyrodiil who are against the 3 major factions, but allied to each other withing the rogue faction. However, we do not need another group to siege and conquer keeps and towns, instead of these, this faction could have a special outlawish campaign goal in cyrodiil like harassing caravans, attack resource deposits etc.

Lotus781

My time spent in cyrodiil was being abused for not being at the same supreme lvl as the other elitist vets scurrying around, it was just a torrent of abuse.I can see why they gave this part of the game away for free who would pay for that?