Hostile to all option for Cryodiil, the change the pvp community needs.

Carespanker

Faction locks or no faction locks, do you know what all pvpers want? (other than the servers not to lag) Its to fight other players, to be rewarded for fighting other players, and for the content to be playable (vollendrung was a BAD idea that only caused faction stacking and lag). Ive been working with a majority of the NA player base (Thanks to the official PC NA PVP discords) for a while and its all they ever really ask for. Just take a look at what all of our pvp streamers have to say for the release of Greymoor if ya don't want to take just my word for it: https://youtu.be/ZQBP5DGhl7E

Hear me out, lets make up some lore reason behind players to be able to reject their factions and join a non-faction for as long as they choose, whether that be daedric worship (Personal Favorite), imperial mercenary work, or just your player choosing their own path- Regardless of the reason, give them a way to disregard their factions for a price (probably 100k ap on or off with a cooldown of the campaign) and become hostile to all 3 factions but their non-faction. This way, players from all factions can play with their friends and get fights on any character in any combination of alts. Tri faction guilds will no longer have to pick and choose their members for the day, small scale groups won't feel forced to play the same unrewarding map that they have been for 6 years straight, and everyone can get the fights they want without the droughts of not getting fights on the highest population faction or being zerged down from being the lowest population faction.

Now, of course there would be plenty of things needed to work out for this. For example, this would come with drawbacks of not having keep buffs or able to become emperor, but im sure you could make this worth it in some way for it to be even on all grounds (or don't to give players more of a challenge!). (Going back to my daedric prince worship, players could offset this with whatever boon they choose giving them benefits on the battlefield that suite their playstyle. )

Another thing is working out what would happen if you capture things, would you be allowed to capture things? If yes then the keeps should remain white as they go to no faction whatsoever, give no benifit other than ticks, and no npc's should be around to defend. If no then that would lead to longer fights and the non-faction players to use keeps to camp and of course lead into longer pvp fights which will just lead to bigger AP ticks.

How will grouping work? Well depending on how its implemented, either they disregard the ability to group altogether (to challenge all 1vXer's to put up or shut up.), the easy route of everyone on the non-faction can group with other non-faction players, or if they go with the daedric prince worshiping idea it could split into subcategories that can only work with other members of that cult. Regardless I think it would be amazing if EVERYONE outside of a group with the non-faction players to be hostile by default. Why is that? to enhance the amount of pvp, allow players a way to fight their friends when they want to in group vs group pvp (which could lead to tournaments with brackets that actually make sense).

What about where they would come from? Well, there is the imperial city that hasn't gotten any updates or love in 6 years (The Drake of Blades must be taking her sweet time fixing the place...). Its perfect for a non faction, their goal is to attack and be attacked by everyone and being evenly placed in the middle of all three would be perfect. Just fix the bridges and make some sort of makeshift hub separate to the rest of Imperial city... because god forbid we ever give the OTHER only pvp zone some love (saving that conversation for when Cyrodiil is fixed...).

What about elder scrolls? Either don't allow them to pick them up or, my personal idea, make it a giant chaosball. Dealing damage to every non-faction player around including the caster but also give benefits to holding one, like extra damage and double AP while inside the chaosball circle allowing the non-faction players to do what is known as "scroll trolling" even better. Small well-trained scale groups would LOVE the idea because that's what they do already! The go around with a scroll and kite through waves of every faction who wants it farming ticks off anyone whos unfortunate enough to get in their way.

And what rewards would it give? Achievements, titles, mounts, outfits - just anything other than housing furniture PLEASE! (I cant even fit anything else in my house anyway... also saving that conversation for a different thread...) As for actual campaign rewards? they should get nothing. They are rejecting their alliance and should not get alliance rewards for doing so. (This would also give players a reason to stay on their faction.)

Now that we got a basis of how it works, im going to go through the pros and cons.

Pros:

It will fix a lot of the lag by splitting faction stacks and further spreading out the player base.

It will fix faction imbalances. If one faction gets too big then just join the non-faction and beat em up.

It will make emperor hard to obtain again. If all these people are flooding out from the center of the map guess what their first target will be? Those juicy ring keeps.

It will allow players to see the value of actually learning how to PVP instead of PVDing their way to grand overlord.

It will allow anyone who JUST WANTS TO FIGHT PLAYERS a way to do just that, and they can be as toxic or elitist as they want in a space that would support it in a healthy way that wouldn't break faction loyalty.

It will allow players to play with friends of any faction. WHENEVER THEY WANT. (removing the need to remove faction locks all together- but my personal bias against that shouldn't affect this topic)

And most importantly, it's finally content for pvp that's not just a new siege weapon. ..Seriously, stop giving us those...

Cons: Well that's what the comments are for! Give me your best answers to what could possibly go wrong to this hypothetical suggestion and If they are valid cons I'll add them here via an edit.

Con 1: The types of players joining the non-faction could lead to it becoming a cesspool of toxic elitists.

Con 2: Players could use this to troll or grief factions of their choice. (more details on how would be welcome)

(to the Zos forum moderators, please don't delete my negative criticism, unlike you I value everyone's opinion and don't want them silenced so I can actually listen to what they have to say.)


Thank you for reading and Im looking forward to the feedback.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam

xinecallaw

This is an interesting idea, I am sure a lot of solo players and ball groups would love this option.

furiouslog

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

Carespanker

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

Gilvoth

Carespanker wrote: »

Facw what all pv ... snip

you speak for yourself, not the community.
i disagree with everything you suggest.

oxygen_thief

performance is the only thing they need to fix. i dont play in cyro and i wont play there because of lags so i dont care about keeps colors and additional factions.

VaranisArano

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

brandonv516

Gilvoth wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

Facw what all pv ... snip

you speak for yourself, not the community.
i disagree with everything you suggest.

It was just a suggestion (a fun one by the way), stop being so hostile.

StormeReigns

Interesting idea.
More on the fence on this. I'm mediocre at best in PvP. So... would be interesting to watch, but nothing really to write home about to. Was something similar in like 1 - 2 zones in CoH/V during their "Going Rogue" update.

Carespanker

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

The thing is trolly players already troll their own factions though. Turn siege, steal scrolls to hand them off to their friends, and most importantly are toxic in chat... all these things would be avoided if they were not on your faction lol. As for pug farming, thats always going to be a thing as well... Instead of changing the player base to be pg rpers why not encourage more pvp in a pvp zone?

VaranisArano

Carespanker wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

You also realize that Cyrodiil is designed and intended for faction v faction fights over keeps, resources, and scrolls that organically generate those player v player fights?

Tower farmers set up on resources because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Ball groups set up in keeps or with scrolls because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Fights generate around Alessia Bridge and Chalman Milegates because those are chokepoint locations between two important objectives. We don't see the same fights at Horunn milegate or the Bay Bridge.

Cyrodiil's objectives are designed to create PVP from a population that actually cares about working as a faction to win the campaign. As someone who does play to win the campaign, I can't complain about the quality of fights I find. There's plenty of Player v Player every time I go out to play even though because I'm doing plenty of fighting at and for objectives that are important for my faction. That's Cyrodiil working as intended. If you pick the important objectives (not just farming at some resource or out of the way keep), you'll never lack for good fights with other players.

x48rph

Not really sure how the video even supports this. Its one dude doing a bunch of cussing and the other picking on the live stream (which was actually funny).

Also , there's no way you speak for "ALL" pvpesr so please don't put it out there like it's a group consensus among everyone when it's not. Just state this what you'd like to see and leave it at that.

Along with that you can call it the "Official PVP Discord servers" all you want but unless it's administered and run by ZOS, which it's not, there's nothing official about it, it's just some pvp players who decided to make a discord like any other player run discord. (Not that there's anything wrong with that but it's far from official)

And finally , I respectfully disagree with your idea. It will just lead to a massive increase in trolling and take away from the actual purpose of Cyrodil which is large scale AvAvA warfare. I think this is where the misconception comes from. While Cyrodil is a PvP zone, it's whole purpose is not just so you can fight other players and nothing else. It's designed for Alliance vs Alliance vs Alliance warfare which involves taking and holding objectives, large scale fighting, sieging and counter sieging, ect, ect. If you just want to fight other players the entire time and not care about castles, objectives, whatever, that's what battleground death matches are for. I mean you can also do that in cyrodil as it is now, but the entire thing shouldn't be changed just to balance it around a few people's desire for such things.

Qbiken

Would definitely like to see a "rogue faction"

Artim_X

Nah, these changes are not needed at all.

xWarbrain

Carespanker wrote: »

either they disregard the ability to group altogether (to challenge all 1vXer's to put up or shut up.)

If we split up by Daedric Prince, I'll be collecting more souls for Hermaeus Mora.

VaranisArano

Carespanker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

The thing is trolly players already troll their own factions though. Turn siege, steal scrolls to hand them off to their friends, and most importantly are toxic in chat... all these things would be avoided if they were not on your faction lol. As for pug farming, thats always going to be a thing as well... Instead of changing the player base to be pg rpers why not encourage more pvp in a pvp zone?

Sorry, but "Troll players will still troll your resources, keeps, and scrolls - in fact, they've got even more incentive to do it - but at least you won't have to listen to them in your own zone chat" is not actually a solution to less trolling in Cyrodiil. Particularly since scroll trolling on my own side can still happen - you assume that all the scroll trolling jerks would swap to play non-faction. Personally, I doubt it.


Furthermore, your "it'll encourage more PVP in a PVP zone" really tells me that it won't generate any more PVP for faction players. It'll generate more PVP for those non-faction players who now can fight anyone anywhere. But they are the only ones who are going to see a difference. (Kind of. You could could get effectively the same thing by taking an AD group way up into DC/EP territory and setting up shop there. Non-faction players just wouldn't have to work as hard.)

What it won't do is change anything for the remaining faction players. The non-faction players are just going to do the exact same things they did when they played for a certain faction. We'll still have the same tower farming groups hunting PUGs in ones and twosies until a group cleans them out. We'll still have enemy scroll groups trolling for AP. We'll still have groups trying to farm PUGs in keeps. We'll still have the same hanger-ons at the bridge fights trying to pick off stragglers. The ONLY difference is that they won't be red, blue, or yellow, and so they'll have zero incentive to do anything but farm until they get killed. There's no more PVP there for faction players than there was when those players fought under the colors of the enemy. Its the same old stuff from the same players who just won't be wearing a faction color.

BoraxFlux

Actually, I -am- curious for the new siege weapon. Sieging is one of the many aspects I like about Cyro.

xWarbrain

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

The thing is trolly players already troll their own factions though. Turn siege, steal scrolls to hand them off to their friends, and most importantly are toxic in chat... all these things would be avoided if they were not on your faction lol. As for pug farming, thats always going to be a thing as well... Instead of changing the player base to be pg rpers why not encourage more pvp in a pvp zone?

Sorry, but "Troll players will still troll your resources, keeps, and scrolls - in fact, they've got even more incentive to do it - but at least you won't have to listen to them in your own zone chat" is not actually a solution to less trolling in Cyrodiil. Particularly since scroll trolling on my own side can still happen - you assume that all the scroll trolling jerks would swap to play non-faction. Personally, I doubt it.


Furthermore, your "it'll encourage more PVP in a PVP zone" really tells me that it won't generate any more PVP for faction players. It'll generate more PVP for those non-faction players who now can fight anyone anywhere. But they are the only ones who are going to see a difference. (Kind of. You could could get effectively the same thing by taking an AD group way up into DC/EP territory and setting up shop there. Non-faction players just wouldn't have to work as hard.)

What it won't do is change anything for the remaining faction players. The non-faction players are just going to do the exact same things they did when they played for a certain faction. We'll still have the same tower farming groups hunting PUGs in ones and twosies until a group cleans them out. We'll still have enemy scroll groups trolling for AP. We'll still have groups trying to farm PUGs in keeps. We'll still have the same hanger-ons at the bridge fights trying to pick off stragglers. The ONLY difference is that they won't be red, blue, or yellow, and so they'll have zero incentive to do anything but farm until they get killed. There's no more PVP there for faction players than there was when those players fought under the colors of the enemy. Its the same old stuff from the same players who just won't be wearing a faction color.

Everything you say is obviously coming from the perspective of a Zergling. Not everyone wants to play your way.

AP doesn't mean a thing to a lot of people. Its a byproduct.

Actually fighting each other is more fun to some people than running over groups that you outnumber 10 to 1 or taking empty keeps.

Donny_Vito

Can you give a TLDR summary please?

I promise I'll get back to reading in full at some point...

VaranisArano

xWarbrain wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

The thing is trolly players already troll their own factions though. Turn siege, steal scrolls to hand them off to their friends, and most importantly are toxic in chat... all these things would be avoided if they were not on your faction lol. As for pug farming, thats always going to be a thing as well... Instead of changing the player base to be pg rpers why not encourage more pvp in a pvp zone?

Sorry, but "Troll players will still troll your resources, keeps, and scrolls - in fact, they've got even more incentive to do it - but at least you won't have to listen to them in your own zone chat" is not actually a solution to less trolling in Cyrodiil. Particularly since scroll trolling on my own side can still happen - you assume that all the scroll trolling jerks would swap to play non-faction. Personally, I doubt it.


Furthermore, your "it'll encourage more PVP in a PVP zone" really tells me that it won't generate any more PVP for faction players. It'll generate more PVP for those non-faction players who now can fight anyone anywhere. But they are the only ones who are going to see a difference. (Kind of. You could could get effectively the same thing by taking an AD group way up into DC/EP territory and setting up shop there. Non-faction players just wouldn't have to work as hard.)

What it won't do is change anything for the remaining faction players. The non-faction players are just going to do the exact same things they did when they played for a certain faction. We'll still have the same tower farming groups hunting PUGs in ones and twosies until a group cleans them out. We'll still have enemy scroll groups trolling for AP. We'll still have groups trying to farm PUGs in keeps. We'll still have the same hanger-ons at the bridge fights trying to pick off stragglers. The ONLY difference is that they won't be red, blue, or yellow, and so they'll have zero incentive to do anything but farm until they get killed. There's no more PVP there for faction players than there was when those players fought under the colors of the enemy. Its the same old stuff from the same players who just won't be wearing a faction color.

Everything you say is obviously coming from the perspective of a Zergling. Not everyone wants to play your way.

AP doesn't mean a thing to a lot of people. Its a byproduct.

Actually fighting each other is more fun to some people than running over groups that you outnumber 10 to 1 or taking empty keeps.

I'm pretty upfront that I play with a faction loyal guild and that I prefer the large fights Cyrodiil was designed for. I get plenty of Player v Player fights doing just that.

That being said, my point is still valid. The OP claims that adding a non-faction option would increase Player v Player for players who otherwise just PvDoor. It might increase PVP but only for the non-faction players who can now fight everyone. Its not even adding something you can't do now - if you want the experience of fighting surrounded by enemies, just strike deep into the opposite side of the map from your own alliance's territory. I see small DC groups hanging out by the AD/EP Alessia Bridge fight often enough.

The OP's suggestion doesn't increase or even change the sort of fights that the remaining faction players already have. We already fight enemy faction groups camping random resources, back keeps, or scrolls. The only thing it changes is the color of the enemy.

Carespanker

Alright, ill tackle these one a time. Please don't see this as disagreeing or attempting to disrespect any of you, im just debating my hypothetical fever dream here, and as stated above I value all opinions not just my own.

Gilvoth wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

Facw what all pv ... snip

you speak for yourself, not the community.
i disagree with everything you suggest.

When I say I speak for the community I mean I speak for My community- which happens to be the majority of North America's guilds and gm's oddly enough... regardless, forgive me for that misconception. When I ask do you know what all pvpers want, i address it with the 3 things that all pvpers want (besides their servers to work) as stated in the first post; "to fight other players"- aka the definition of pvp, "to be rewarded for fighting players"- aka the motivation for pvping in the first place, and "for the content to be playable"- as in for it not to harm ability to pvp in the first place. If ya disagree with all three of those things then are you actually a pvper? and if claim so do you know what PVP means? Regardless for the rest of the post past that I do not speak for ALL pvpers, otherwise it would be their idea and ide be crediting them.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

So if two groups on the same faction siege a keep they can unintendedlly kill each other with collateral damage? That does not seem productive.

I believe you are missing the point of the whole thing, the point is to kill eachother... ya know Player vs Player?... instead of attacking doors?...- Its to appeal to people who want to fight other players, which is why taking keeps in general for them should feel unrewarding and not worth the effort for anything other than creating a spawn location. If they want to "be productive" thats what the factions would still be for.

You also realize that Cyrodiil is designed and intended for faction v faction fights over keeps, resources, and scrolls that organically generate those player v player fights?

Tower farmers set up on resources because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Ball groups set up in keeps or with scrolls because they know players will come there to recapture them.
Fights generate around Alessia Bridge and Chalman Milegates because those are chokepoint locations between two important objectives. We don't see the same fights at Horunn milegate or the Bay Bridge.

Cyrodiil's objectives are designed to create PVP from a population that actually cares about working as a faction to win the campaign. As someone who does play to win the campaign, I can't complain about the quality of fights I find. There's plenty of Player v Player every time I go out to play even though because I'm doing plenty of fighting at and for objectives that are important for my faction. That's Cyrodiil working as intended. If you pick the important objectives (not just farming at some resource or out of the way keep), you'll never lack for good fights with other players.

Yes I do understand how Cyrodiil works, Ive been playing it for 6 years and I honestly believe we need less additions to the game that cause heavy zerg stacks, the "organic" nature of Cyrodiil itself is destroyed by the sheer amount of lag caused at these objects due to the way that they that the players use them for their best interest. Take milegate man for example, https://imgur.com/a/3BCxHGe using these objectives as they are intended are just a bigger lagfests of a faction stacks, the same could be said for volendrung and keep defense...

Cyrodiil's design itself is flawed for its own performance and I humbly suggest that one of the best ways to fix this would be to spread the player base out through the chaos that nonfaction players could provide through simply creating more pvp situations.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

The thing is trolly players already troll their own factions though. Turn siege, steal scrolls to hand them off to their friends, and most importantly are toxic in chat... all these things would be avoided if they were not on your faction lol. As for pug farming, thats always going to be a thing as well... Instead of changing the player base to be pg rpers why not encourage more pvp in a pvp zone?

Sorry, but "Troll players will still troll your resources, keeps, and scrolls - in fact, they've got even more incentive to do it - but at least you won't have to listen to them in your own zone chat" is not actually a solution to less trolling in Cyrodiil. Particularly since scroll trolling on my own side can still happen - you assume that all the scroll trolling jerks would swap to play non-faction. Personally, I doubt it.


Furthermore, your "it'll encourage more PVP in a PVP zone" really tells me that it won't generate any more PVP for faction players. It'll generate more PVP for those non-faction players who now can fight anyone anywhere. But they are the only ones who are going to see a difference. (Kind of. You could could get effectively the same thing by taking an AD group way up into DC/EP territory and setting up shop there. Non-faction players just wouldn't have to work as hard.)

What it won't do is change anything for the remaining faction players. The non-faction players are just going to do the exact same things they did when they played for a certain faction. We'll still have the same tower farming groups hunting PUGs in ones and twosies until a group cleans them out. We'll still have enemy scroll groups trolling for AP. We'll still have groups trying to farm PUGs in keeps. We'll still have the same hanger-ons at the bridge fights trying to pick off stragglers. The ONLY difference is that they won't be red, blue, or yellow, and so they'll have zero incentive to do anything but farm until they get killed. There's no more PVP there for faction players than there was when those players fought under the colors of the enemy. Its the same old stuff from the same players who just won't be wearing a faction color.

I do agree that making a toxic elitest safe space would be one of the cons of this situation, but it will not change what they already do in cyrodiil currently so it wouldn't effect the current gameplay in that sense. Frankly it hurts more when your own faction is to blame for giving a scroll or volendrung away to the enemy. At least with this they'd have to fight their way through your faction to get their own agenda done.

kalunte

Definatly no point in making another "faction".

1st: Since small groups and ball groups already go into other factions war (like blues heading for sej while they dont even have their home keeps..) to take the winners AP, what would it add for real?

2nd: you can already fight everyone but your team in BG.

3rd: the goal in cyrodiil is either run for emperorship or take as many keep/ressource/scroll as possible, what would be the point having a "faction" that wouldnt actually care about any of those on the long run?

4th: to me you're only asking for a toxicity contest that would add nothing good. again, if you just want to fight: deathmatches are for you.

Katahdin

I don't agree with the suggested changes.

I dont see how a "fourth faction" is going to balance the map. It's just going to create more trolls to cause problems. It could even create more imbalance if the majority of players abandon their faction and bandwagon to it

AhPook_Is_Here

It sounds like an interesting idea. I play 3 way chess with a buddy, 2 of us face off and the 3rd can just knock the pieces off the board whenever they want or move pieces around wherever they want or return captured pieces. It's a really interesting game, try it with your friends, I think you will enjoy it too.

Carespanker

VaranisArano wrote: »

xWarbrain wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Carespanker wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Um, kindly don't lump me in with this "all PVPers" you say really want to play factionless PVP that really amounts to trolling the regular factions and leeching off the players who are actually fighting for their alliance.

This is basically the sort of PUG farming behavior we already see out of tower farming small scale and some ball groups farming in keeps or with scrolls writ large and devoid of even the minor fig leaf of benefiting your faction.

I'm not a fan of encouraging even more trolling in Cyrodiil and its clear that such is a feature of your idea, not a bug.

The thing is trolly players already troll their own factions though. Turn siege, steal scrolls to hand them off to their friends, and most importantly are toxic in chat... all these things would be avoided if they were not on your faction lol. As for pug farming, thats always going to be a thing as well... Instead of changing the player base to be pg rpers why not encourage more pvp in a pvp zone?

Sorry, but "Troll players will still troll your resources, keeps, and scrolls - in fact, they've got even more incentive to do it - but at least you won't have to listen to them in your own zone chat" is not actually a solution to less trolling in Cyrodiil. Particularly since scroll trolling on my own side can still happen - you assume that all the scroll trolling jerks would swap to play non-faction. Personally, I doubt it.


Furthermore, your "it'll encourage more PVP in a PVP zone" really tells me that it won't generate any more PVP for faction players. It'll generate more PVP for those non-faction players who now can fight anyone anywhere. But they are the only ones who are going to see a difference. (Kind of. You could could get effectively the same thing by taking an AD group way up into DC/EP territory and setting up shop there. Non-faction players just wouldn't have to work as hard.)

What it won't do is change anything for the remaining faction players. The non-faction players are just going to do the exact same things they did when they played for a certain faction. We'll still have the same tower farming groups hunting PUGs in ones and twosies until a group cleans them out. We'll still have enemy scroll groups trolling for AP. We'll still have groups trying to farm PUGs in keeps. We'll still have the same hanger-ons at the bridge fights trying to pick off stragglers. The ONLY difference is that they won't be red, blue, or yellow, and so they'll have zero incentive to do anything but farm until they get killed. There's no more PVP there for faction players than there was when those players fought under the colors of the enemy. Its the same old stuff from the same players who just won't be wearing a faction color.

Everything you say is obviously coming from the perspective of a Zergling. Not everyone wants to play your way.

AP doesn't mean a thing to a lot of people. Its a byproduct.

Actually fighting each other is more fun to some people than running over groups that you outnumber 10 to 1 or taking empty keeps.

I'm pretty upfront that I play with a faction loyal guild and that I prefer the large fights Cyrodiil was designed for. I get plenty of Player v Player fights doing just that.

That being said, my point is still valid. The OP claims that adding a non-faction option would increase Player v Player for players who otherwise just PvDoor. It might increase PVP but only for the non-faction players who can now fight everyone. Its not even adding something you can't do now - if you want the experience of fighting surrounded by enemies, just strike deep into the opposite side of the map from your own alliance's territory. I see small DC groups hanging out by the AD/EP Alessia Bridge fight often enough.

The OP's suggestion doesn't increase or even change the sort of fights that the remaining faction players already have. We already fight enemy faction groups camping random resources, back keeps, or scrolls. The only thing it changes is the color of the enemy.

Believe it or not, im also 100% a faction loyalist myself and im against removing faction locks and prefer playing the map first over just looking for fights. But thats not the bias I want to bring to this post. I personally just want to fix performance and give more interactions for players other than zerging the map. A large portion of the game already do this and wish for better ways to do this which is what sparked the idea in the first place. I for one would love to see these little troublemakers running around WHILE im playing the map for my faction to give a sense of fresh experiences with every battle.

TequilaFire

Yeah, seems like you want to create a "spoiler" faction which would be used to troll players in the other factions trying to play the campaign against each other. It would be abused to control the map if a guild joined the spoiler faction and decided to side with a regular faction.

xWarbrain

I think the majority of players that would support this idea don't come to the forums.

Anyone suggesting BGs instead of this clearly doesn't get it.

Cirantille

TLDR but we need justice system

Like we should be able to hunt down all the trolls and kill them

x48rph

Carespanker wrote: »

Yes I do understand how Cyrodiil works, Ive been playing it for 6 years and I honestly believe we need less additions to the game that cause heavy zerg stacks, the "organic" nature of Cyrodiil itself is destroyed by the sheer amount of lag caused at these objects due to the way that they that the players use them for their best interest. Take milegate man for example, https://imgur.com/a/3BCxHGe using these objectives as they are intended are just a bigger lagfests of a faction stacks, the same could be said for volendrung and keep defense...

Cyrodiil's design itself is flawed for its own performance and I humbly suggest that one of the best ways to fix this would be to spread the player base out through the chaos that nonfaction players could provide through simply creating more pvp situations.

So this is about the only part I agree with that they really need to do something about the lag. Now they do have this whole year of performance improvements which while I personally think won't fix anything in cyrodil cause I'm a pessimist about anything zos does anymore, we should at least wait this out and see where we are when they're done before asking for large scale changes to the way things work. Besides, it would probably take them that long at least to even begin to work on something like that. It's not just a flip of the switch coding wise to implement a change like that, not to mention the cost of all those hours of coding gets weighed against the potential profits which in my opinion at most it'll be a wash since some people might be attracted to such a feature but others will surely be turned off by it and leave.

VaranisArano

"It'll get players to spread out which will help performance!"
ZOS has been trying to get players to spread out for ages in many different ways. It doesn't work. Players still bunch up at important objectives. (Volundrung did NOT help.)
Adding non-faction players won't help spread players out. Why not? Because non-faction players have no way to generate fights except to camp at already important objectives or to join in already ongoing fights. They aren't going to do anything different to spread players out than an enemy faction group could already do.

"Frankly it hurts more when your own faction is to blame for giving a scroll or volendrung away to the enemy. At least with this they'd have to fight their way through your faction to get their own agenda done."
Your solution is not the cure-all for scroll trolling. Sure, some scroll trolls might swap, but there's still nothing stopping people from your own faction from doing it. So from where I'm sitting, it really looks like encouraging even more trolling while doing nothing to discourage the existing forms we already have.

It might turn out to be a moot point, as I'm not sure how many non-faction groups could or would mount a scroll grab, or how many non-faction players would survive grabbing a scroll from a temple in the middle of an alliance run. Which means I suspect anyone wanting to troll or hand over a scroll would stick with an alliance since that's the easiest way to grab a scroll in the first place. A non-faction group would be safest trying to attack the scroll runner during the run and that's comparatively much riskier for a non-farming group troll. Volundrung is in the same boat - if you want to be a troll or hand it over to another alliance, its much more effective to do it as a faction player instead of trying to do it when everyone around can kill you.

So sadly, I suspect there's plenty of incentive for the dedicated trolls to stay on an alliance - not least because of the frustration and anger they feed off of when their alliance zone chat lights up at them.

IndianaJames7

I kinda like the sound of this... I think adding more factions/reducing the amount of players on each would encourage more fun small scale fighting, and probably reduce some of the faction stacking that is causing lag.