Are the out of control mat prices affecting your crafting???

tmbrinks

erliesc wrote: »

My charts go back at least 90 days (2xs 45) and they are now set to 120 days....though the data hasn't caught up yet.

45 days catches only the more recent data.

A different set of guilds would show different prices.

Too many are up de Nile...please get in your boats...come back to reality!

I do a lot of farming and usually don't buy that much unless needed for some project...do depend on good charts for price data. I rarely if ever pay over the avg price for anything...EXCEPT that the avg price for the above mats is not actually what I'd consider a true average. Which is the value of having longer term charts...I can see what the avg really is...not what denialists think it is...or should be.

I have no real issue with people overpaying for mats if that's what they want to do...denialists SHOULD pay more?

I will wait to see if prices come back to reality....meantime with my SUPERDUPER charts I will pay a fair value. LOL.

I notice you're still not showing your prices...

erliesc

I could get some screen captures...but that's too much work for too little return. The orig prices and most recent prices are accurate...at least for the 5 guilds I'm in.

Someone mentioned on this forum about doing a writ that required 30 bast...so you can see where the issue was (is).

Somebody made a "mistake" with the writs...or maybe an intentional "mistake"....thus prices spike.

I haven't done that many writs...just enough to finish crafting in most areas...eventually I just bought lower priced stuff and deconned it.

We'll see where the prices end up soon enough.

Meanwhile I'm thinking that the NPCs in this game are about to go on strike...they seem very dissatisfied! Endless complaints about things taking too long.

They (the NPCs) seem to think I'm a rather important person in this game...maybe I will try to organize them....they might get better working conditions? ;-)

tmbrinks

erliesc wrote: »

I could get some screen captures...but that's too much work for too little return. The orig prices and most recent prices are accurate...at least for the 5 guilds I'm in.

So, we're done then... You refuse to corroborate your shared data.

So, I have no choice to go with my personal data, with no other data points, which contradicts yours.

And thus, I have no conclusion I can make, other than you were exaggerating (at best), or flat out lying (at worst), got caught, and now realize you can't back it up, and refuse to share.

(also, your signature is extremely vulgar, and how it's still allowed here is beyond me)

erliesc

So you are not a fan of Hogan's Heroes?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0052308/?ref_=tt_cl_t3 John Banner would roll over in his grave!!!


You do realize that some guilds are very different and trade at different price levels?

For instance...I'm selling a bunch of purple glyphs for around 700 gold and I assume someone is buying them and then reselling them at maybe a 300 gold profit at a higher level guild where dues are required to trade. Or maybe I'm enabling somebody who is trying to corner the glyph market....

How bout a spreadsheet on guild prices relative to individual guilds?

I'm in one guild that is just under the point where dues are needed...down to one guild that is just surviving where I sell the lower level stuff. The different avgs between my guilds and your guilds are a reflection of the guilds involved.

This page generally shows lower prices than my guilds do on avg....

https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade

Tatanko

erliesc wrote: »

You do realize that some guilds are very different and trade at different price levels?

He has demonstrated on multiple occasions to be an authority on the subjects of crafting and trade in ESO. Insulting his experience with such a basic question does nothing but make you look worse.

erliesc wrote: »

How bout a spreadsheet on guild prices relative to individual guilds?

You won't produce any of your own data for us to see, but now you're asking for more from others? Doesn't work that way, bud.

erliesc

Well...I know what I know. It's been about 60 days since the price spikes...let me know WHEN prices go back down....

You will need at least 60 day charts to see the prices from BASELINE before the price spikes to current prices.

If you people are authorities...how's come I know stuff you don't?

Bast = 73.63

HWood = 266

Regulus = 46.52

newtinmpls

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You might consider collecting 50 heartwood from nodes to be work. My wife would disagree after a long day of meetings and writing training courses for corporate america, she likes the mindless wondering around collecting stuff.

This caught my eye, and I have something of a similar reaction. I work in health care (mental health to be exact) and the current US combination of insurance/crap/politics/stigma and huge need means I work all day in frustrating shades of grey.

I love going home and being "the good guy" and killing the "the bad guys" for a while. No insurance, no pre-authorization crap, no "patient centered care" regulations that impair what I'm trying to do, just lovely "they are bad, now they are dead."

I salute her peacefully gathering ways!!

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You also forgot a few things:
1) people can use event tickets for skaal explorer which helps with demand.
2) The writs do not have to be completed during the event. People can wait a few weeks or even months to do the writs.
3) People can just buy the style pages they need off traders, so at a certain price point someone will spend the dough and but the exact item they need as opposed to do writs for random pages.
4) The higher the price gets for mats, the more people who will see some/all of their own stock or farm it.

Supply and demand, basic economics. It wont even take a couple of months before the prices are nearly back to normal on mats.

Speaking for myself, I do like making things and I do like selling them, but I am flatly completely unwilling to buy mats. If I have enough I make it and use or sell it. If not, then I let it go for now and come back to it later.

tmbrinks

erliesc wrote: »

Well...I know what I know. It's been about 60 days since the price spikes...let me know WHEN prices go back down....

You will need at least 60 day charts to see the prices from BASELINE before the price spikes to current prices.

If you people are authorities...how's come I know stuff you don't?

Bast = 73.63

HWood = 266

Regulus = 46.52

You realize that by having data going back LONGER, you are catching MORE of the spike that occurred during the New Life Festival, thus RAISING your prices above what they're actually selling for.

You also have still not shared a single screenshot of your data

So, a much better representation of CURRENT prices would be the 10-day MM pricing.



Let's just say, that if you used your current logic if I asked a question about this on one of my math tests, you wouldn't receive credit because of the faults in your reasoning

Disturbed_One

erliesc wrote: »

Well...I know what I know. It's been about 60 days since the price spikes...let me know WHEN prices go back down....

You will need at least 60 day charts to see the prices from BASELINE before the price spikes to current prices.

If you people are authorities...how's come I know stuff you don't?

Bast = 73.63

HWood = 266

Regulus = 46.52

They are going down. @tmbrinks has shown actual data proving that. You've just doubled down on trying to bully your (incorrect) opinion, and being arrogant about it as well.

Have you noticed not a person has agreed with your premise recently? None. That should be a pretty strong hint! Please take it.

Pinoh

erliesc wrote: »

2/11/20 Price Gouging Report:

Of the things I try to sell...I cannot find much of anything to make and sell where the craft cost is below 2000...seems that with most furniture etc.the craft cost has increased by 2-3xs or so.

The people running this game have allowed or caused the game economy to be severely stressed if not destroyed.

Trying to discourage crafting and move the game over to run and slash? Want to sell more furniture?

Yep pretty much. The game economy is severely out of control. Zos needs to cut the furnishing material requirements in half on pretty much everything. Or put furnishing materials in surveys. Pretty soon the prices at the luxury vendor will be bargains compared to what player crafted furnishings cost.

The people with an interest in selling what they farm for outrageous prices will try to defend the status quo. Those people clearly do not make furniture, or make very little. And are mostly interested in getting rich doing the farming they already do, or flipping stuff.

Its pretty disingenuous, for people to suggest that its a lack of farming that is the issue for people that want to complain about the cost of making furnishings. A reasonable amount of farming isn't going to get you the amount of rare drops recipes require. The imbalance was sort of disguised in the past by cheaply available materials on the traders. But the most recent new life festival blew the market out for furnishing materials.

And yeah flippers are cashing in; and I see no reason for them to stop. Reality isn't a conspiracy theory. For those in denial go watch some you tube videos on how to flip, there's about as many as videos on how to farm.

In any case, this is a game, not a job something quite a few people can't seem to understand on a fundamental level. The things in a game shouldn't devolve into a work like grind.

tmbrinks

Pinoh wrote: »

erliesc wrote: »

2/11/20 Price Gouging Report:

Of the things I try to sell...I cannot find much of anything to make and sell where the craft cost is below 2000...seems that with most furniture etc.the craft cost has increased by 2-3xs or so.

The people running this game have allowed or caused the game economy to be severely stressed if not destroyed.

Trying to discourage crafting and move the game over to run and slash? Want to sell more furniture?

Yep pretty much. The game economy is severely out of control. Zos needs to cut the furnishing material requirements in half on pretty much everything. Or put furnishing materials in surveys. Pretty soon the prices at the luxury vendor will be bargains compared to what player crafted furnishings cost.

The people with an interest in selling what they farm for outrageous prices will try to defend the status quo. Those people clearly do not make furniture, or make very little. And are mostly interested in getting rich doing the farming they already do, or flipping stuff.

Its pretty disingenuous, for people to suggest that its a lack of farming that is the issue for people that want to complain about the cost of making furnishings. A reasonable amount of farming isn't going to get you the amount of rare drops recipes require. The imbalance was sort of disguised in the past by cheaply available materials on the traders. But the most recent new life festival blew the market out for furnishing materials.

And yeah flippers are cashing in; and I see no reason for them to stop. Reality isn't a conspiracy theory. For those in denial go watch some you tube videos on how to flip, there's about as many as videos on how to farm.

In any case, this is a game, not a job something quite a few people can't seem to understand on a fundamental level. The things in a game shouldn't devolve into a work like grind.

I don't "farm" materials (only collect surveys, which, as you said don't drop the materials). I do collect materials as I'm out in the world questing (which I don't do much of anyways anymore)

I have 9 characters with the "Master Heartwood/Regulus/Bast Harvester" achievement. The materials drop, and for a long time, there wasn't much to use them for. The New Life Event changed that.

Furniture crafting had ENORMOUS profit margins for a long, long time because there was a high barrier to entry (some of the plans are really, really expensive... There are 5 in the game I don't have... 2 of them currently on sale. 1 for 15 million, the 2nd for 20 million). So, the profit margin has been narrowed because of a winnowing of materials that, in many cases were just piling up in people's craft bag.

Honestly, the craft bag is the single biggest driver of prices upwards, since people don't have to worry about inventory space, they just hoard materials, reducing the supply on the market. In many cases, I have no clue how much of many things I have since they just go right in the bag. (I'm not suggesting removal of the craft bag... god no, this game would be very difficult to play how I do without it!)

If somebody thinks that Heartwood is worth selling at 150g a piece, then that is the price they set. They make their gold and are happy with it. If a "flipper" knows that they are currently selling for 225-250g and want to take the risk of buying the heartwood at 150g and try and sell it at a higher price, then that is there prerogative. You talk about flipping like it's some shady, nefarious business. It's just another way to make gold in the game. I know plenty of flippers who've lost a lot of gold as a result of a bad purchase.

So, to summarize.

1. I am defending the system
2. I don't farm (for these types of materials). I do daily writs and "farm" master writs and gold improvement materials
3. I don't flip items at traders (unless I see a HUGE deal when shopping for something else, like somebody selling Dreugh Wax for 2k each)

So, I don't fit in your initial hypothesis. Got another one?

VaranisArano

Pinoh wrote: »

erliesc wrote: »

2/11/20 Price Gouging Report:

Of the things I try to sell...I cannot find much of anything to make and sell where the craft cost is below 2000...seems that with most furniture etc.the craft cost has increased by 2-3xs or so.

The people running this game have allowed or caused the game economy to be severely stressed if not destroyed.

Trying to discourage crafting and move the game over to run and slash? Want to sell more furniture?

Yep pretty much. The game economy is severely out of control. Zos needs to cut the furnishing material requirements in half on pretty much everything. Or put furnishing materials in surveys. Pretty soon the prices at the luxury vendor will be bargains compared to what player crafted furnishings cost.

The people with an interest in selling what they farm for outrageous prices will try to defend the status quo. Those people clearly do not make furniture, or make very little. And are mostly interested in getting rich doing the farming they already do, or flipping stuff.

Its pretty disingenuous, for people to suggest that its a lack of farming that is the issue for people that want to complain about the cost of making furnishings. A reasonable amount of farming isn't going to get you the amount of rare drops recipes require. The imbalance was sort of disguised in the past by cheaply available materials on the traders. But the most recent new life festival blew the market out for furnishing materials.

And yeah flippers are cashing in; and I see no reason for them to stop. Reality isn't a conspiracy theory. For those in denial go watch some you tube videos on how to flip, there's about as many as videos on how to farm.

In any case, this is a game, not a job something quite a few people can't seem to understand on a fundamental level. The things in a game shouldn't devolve into a work like grind.

What most people forget is that ZOS intends for Housing to be a long game and has ever since it was first introduced. Making your own furnishings is about as far from instant gratification as a game system can get. That's deliberate.

"But its a game, not a job."

Its an MMO. They thrive on players spending time or money on the game to accomplish what they want to. Grinding is part of the genre. And unless you've completely missed how this MMO works, grinding is absolutely a major part of ESO.

That being said, I'd be curious to know what you consider "a reasonable amount of farming." That's a very individual measure of time and I'm interested to hear a specific amount.

tmbrinks

VaranisArano wrote: »

Pinoh wrote: »

erliesc wrote: »

2/11/20 Price Gouging Report:

Of the things I try to sell...I cannot find much of anything to make and sell where the craft cost is below 2000...seems that with most furniture etc.the craft cost has increased by 2-3xs or so.

The people running this game have allowed or caused the game economy to be severely stressed if not destroyed.

Trying to discourage crafting and move the game over to run and slash? Want to sell more furniture?

Yep pretty much. The game economy is severely out of control. Zos needs to cut the furnishing material requirements in half on pretty much everything. Or put furnishing materials in surveys. Pretty soon the prices at the luxury vendor will be bargains compared to what player crafted furnishings cost.

The people with an interest in selling what they farm for outrageous prices will try to defend the status quo. Those people clearly do not make furniture, or make very little. And are mostly interested in getting rich doing the farming they already do, or flipping stuff.

Its pretty disingenuous, for people to suggest that its a lack of farming that is the issue for people that want to complain about the cost of making furnishings. A reasonable amount of farming isn't going to get you the amount of rare drops recipes require. The imbalance was sort of disguised in the past by cheaply available materials on the traders. But the most recent new life festival blew the market out for furnishing materials.

And yeah flippers are cashing in; and I see no reason for them to stop. Reality isn't a conspiracy theory. For those in denial go watch some you tube videos on how to flip, there's about as many as videos on how to farm.

In any case, this is a game, not a job something quite a few people can't seem to understand on a fundamental level. The things in a game shouldn't devolve into a work like grind.

What most people forget is that ZOS intends for Housing to be a long game and has ever since it was first introduced. Making your own furnishings is about as far from instant gratification as a game system can get. That's deliberate.

"But its a game, not a job."

Its an MMO. They thrive on players spending time or money on the game to accomplish what they want to. Grinding is part of the genre. And unless you've completely missed how this MMO works, grinding is absolutely a major part of ESO.

That being said, I'd be curious to know what you consider "a reasonable amount of farming." That's a very individual measure of time and I'm interested to hear a specific amount.

and in the grand scheme of MMOs, ESO is one of the least grindy.

Thanks to tradeable drops from group members, and to transmutation system, the grind has been reduced astronomically, and the game is in a much better place for it.

erliesc

Current as of 2/25/20...

Bast = 73.63...71.42

HWood = 266...262.52

Regulus = 46.52...46.02

Bast and Regulus going down fairly fast (though the avgs don't show it yet) ...but the real issue is HWood...not dropping much...was always an issue due to it's slow spawn rate. 70 days since the SPIKE.

VaranisArano

erliesc wrote: »

Current as of 2/25/20...

Bast = 73.63...71.42

HWood = 266...262.52

Regulus = 46.52...46.02

Bast and Regulus going down fairly fast (though the avgs don't show it yet) ...but the real issue is HWood...not dropping much...was always an issue due to it's slow spawn rate. 70 days since the SPIKE.

Oh, hey, an update.

I've been farming a fair bit and tracking what I pick up for furnishing mats for the last 10 hours of farming. Its interesting.

Turns out that I can reliably farm enough Heartwood to make a purple or gold housing item in about an hour, while making a loop of Craglorn. Mundane Runes, the most expensive of the mats, are even better.

That sounds bad - one item an hour? Except that ZOS always intended for Housing to be a slow process where players take time to fill out their houses rather than simply crafting everything at once. So that doesn't surprise me.

But for the players who do want it all right away, the best way to bypass that is gold. Since I'm farming Craglorn and I'm getting an average of 1 or 2 Potent Nirncrux a loop, I can afford to buy around another 90-200 heartwood at your price with an hour's work. I'm not hoarding my other mats I farm so I'm making more gold which would let me buy more furnishing mats. My actual profit has been close to 75-100k a day thanks to nirncrux and selling raw mats at a good market price.

This could be done by any player with some cheap speed sets, maxed craft and keen eye passives, the farming CP passives, and an hour or so to farm. That's not something a brand new player can manage quickly, but its definitely something that housing players who want to craft their own furnishings can manage since they already have to train up the crafts.

I guess I'm not really seeing the ruinous effect on the economy or even the housing market...at least for players willing to put in some time to farm mats or make money in other ways. What I am seeing is that ZOS still does expect players to put in the time to farm or make gold in order to do their housing, which is exactly the design they intended with Homestead.

Pinoh

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

activity.Current as of 2/28/20...
we were running investigations surrounding some suspicious black market activity.

I guess the question is there anyone here left to deny that market manipulation takes place. I guess there probably are; just doing the typical apologist attacks on anyone who complains about something. Or perhaps they were/are just vile commodity flippers, defending their illicit practices. Oh my!

Now that you've got some of the black market players, it's time for some market correction! Yay ZOS for looking after the players, don't just stop half way though. Put furnishing materials in surveys and/or reduce requirements in furniture plans.

But anyway, let's be honest here, we all spend too much time on a game. And probably have time management issues. But most of us want to actually spend that time, you know actually playing a game, not doing something that emulates work on some basic level.

Grind in other games is mostly irrelevant, if the reward to grind is too low here. then that's an issue for this game and the players here. If you like playing even grindier games, go for it. Playing a game that emulates a factory line mindless gathering mentality. umm kind of, sort of, isn't really a game at all to most people, despite all the farm game lovers that may exist.

Unlike a reeses peanut butter cup, when you put your mindless farming game, into my stabbing things game, or house decorating game. It doesn't in fact make it better. In fact it makes it much much worse.

Oh it's gated housing you say, its supposed to work that way. Yes it is gated, by selling 100 dollar houses, you know the hundred bucks. Yeah I know there are some cheaper ones that are just 40 or 50 as well. The gate is the money, you know what keeps the game running; not a life of servitude in an imaginary game to try to furnish an imaginary house. Even the apologists defending the grind, say it takes an hour of hard core farming to make a piece a furniture. So um just 700 hours to furnish that mansion you just paid a hundred bucks for.

So housing already has a huge buy in cost. The recipes are already rare and or expensive, providing a second hurdle. Why does it also have massive amounts of rare materials to make the furnishings? They are placed in the recipes at basic farming material quantities, about the same as vendor style materials. The actually rare style materials are only required in quantities or 1 or 2 by comparison. It's nuts, furnishing materials need to be adjusted down and treated like rare items that aren't in surveys and provided in massive quantities to players.

VaranisArano

Pinoh wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

activity.Current as of 2/28/20...
we were running investigations surrounding some suspicious black market activity.

I guess the question is there anyone here left to deny that market manipulation takes place. I guess there probably are; just doing the typical apologist attacks on anyone who complains about something. Or perhaps they were/are just vile commodity flippers, defending their illicit practices. Oh my!

Now that you've got some of the black market players, it's time for some market correction! Yay ZOS for looking after the players, don't just stop half way though. Put furnishing materials in surveys and/or reduce requirements in furniture plans.

But anyway, let's be honest here, we all spend too much time on a game. And probably have time management issues. But most of us want to actually spend that time, you know actually playing a game, not doing something that emulates work on some basic level.

Grind in other games is mostly irrelevant, if the reward to grind is too low here. then that's an issue for this game and the players here. If you like playing even grindier games, go for it. Playing a game that emulates a factory line mindless gathering mentality. umm kind of, sort of, isn't really a game at all to most people, despite all the farm game lovers that may exist.

Unlike a reeses peanut butter cup, when you put your mindless farming game, into my stabbing things game, or house decorating game. It doesn't in fact make it better. In fact it makes it much much worse.

Oh it's gated housing you say, its supposed to work that way. Yes it is gated, by selling 100 dollar houses, you know the hundred bucks. Yeah I know there are some cheaper ones that are just 40 or 50 as well. The gate is the money, you know what keeps the game running; not a life of servitude in an imaginary game to try to furnish an imaginary house. Even the apologists defending the grind, say it takes an hour of hard core farming to make a piece a furniture. So um just 700 hours to furnish that mansion you just paid a hundred bucks for.

So housing already has a huge buy in cost. The recipes are already rare and or expensive, providing a second hurdle. Why does it also have massive amounts of rare materials to make the furnishings? They are placed in the recipes at basic farming material quantities, about the same as vendor style materials. The actually rare style materials are only required in quantities or 1 or 2 by comparison. It's nuts, furnishing materials need to be adjusted down and treated like rare items that aren't in surveys and provided in massive quantities to players.

Hey, don't misrepresent my data.

That hour? Not only got me enough mats to make a single piece of the most expensive furniture (more pieces if you have less expensive tastes), but also made me plenty of gold with which to buy even more mats or premade furniture. Even from my first post, its clear that 700 hours is an exaggeration once you include the profit I make from farming.

I've since finished up my data and sold the results, so 12 hrs of farming (10 Craglorn loops over about a week and a half) netted me:
Heartwood: 170
Mundane Rune: 256
Gold from sales: 1,023,651
As you can see, the actual furnishing mat drops are rather irrelevant when you consider how many mats/recipes I can buy for 1 million gold.

No offense, but its never, ever taken me 700 hours to furnish a house. Just because you don't want to farm doesn't mean its not a viable way to furnish a house. I don't care for the flipping game myself, so I make my money from farming and selling mats at reasonable prices to other players and then use that money to fund furnishing a house. Nor is farming the only way to make money in ESO - there's plenty of ways to make steady money playing other content, particularly the justice system.

Ever since Homestead launched Housing, ZOS made it clear that furnishing your house wasn't supposed to be something that happens all at once. Its something that takes time and gold. But I'll be blunt - 12 hours farming for 1 million gold or so will make a pretty good dent on furnishing a large house for most players. Even for a player who's determined to buy their own recipes and mats to build everything with their own hands.

Pinoh

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hey, don't misrepresent my data.
I've since finished up my data and sold the results, so 12 hrs of farming.....Gold from sales: 1,023,651
As you can see, the actual furnishing mat drops are rather irrelevant when you consider how many mats/recipes I can buy for 1 million gold.

Ever since Homestead launched Housing, ZOS made it clear that furnishing your house wasn't supposed to be something that happens all at once. Its something that takes time and gold. But I'll be blunt - 12 hours farming for 1 million gold or so will make a pretty good dent on furnishing a large house for most players. Even for a player who's determined to buy their own recipes and mats to build everything with their own hands.

There wasn't any data to misrepresent, you said it took you an hour to make one three legged chair. Sort of anecdotal and from a sample size, so small as to be meaningless. But hey, good job trying to keep track of that. Here's your gold star.

All I take away form that is you sold it all. So you Don't actually craft stuff and sell that right, because you know, that would pretty much be insane in today's commodity market. Yep furniture crafting is broken, your own 'data' makes this abundantly clear, furniture is worth less than the materials it takes to make. Or you'd be selling furniture, since it seems you're keen on making lots of in game gold.

So all you've proven, is that they need to reduce the costs of making furniture; thank you for your time and contribution to making this case. Not that it wasn't blatantly obvious to begin with.

Pretty sure they meant unlocking achievements, not it taking months to gather crafting materials. But hey, potato or potatoe?

tmbrinks

Pinoh wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hey, don't misrepresent my data.
I've since finished up my data and sold the results, so 12 hrs of farming.....Gold from sales: 1,023,651
As you can see, the actual furnishing mat drops are rather irrelevant when you consider how many mats/recipes I can buy for 1 million gold.

Ever since Homestead launched Housing, ZOS made it clear that furnishing your house wasn't supposed to be something that happens all at once. Its something that takes time and gold. But I'll be blunt - 12 hours farming for 1 million gold or so will make a pretty good dent on furnishing a large house for most players. Even for a player who's determined to buy their own recipes and mats to build everything with their own hands.

There wasn't any data to misrepresent, you said it took you an hour to make one three legged chair. Sort of anecdotal and from a sample size, so small as to be meaningless. But hey, good job trying to keep track of that. Here's your gold star.

All I take away form that is you sold it all. So you Don't actually craft stuff and sell that right, because you know, that would pretty much be insane in today's commodity market. Yep furniture crafting is broken, your own 'data' makes this abundantly clear, furniture is worth less than the materials it takes to make. Or you'd be selling furniture, since it seems you're keen on making lots of in game gold.

So all you've proven, is that they need to reduce the costs of making furniture; thank you for your time and contribution to making this case. Not that it wasn't blatantly obvious to begin with.

Pretty sure they meant unlocking achievements, not it taking months to gather crafting materials. But hey, potato or potatoe?

Continuing to misrepresent, and twist his statements to "prove" your point?

It doesn't matter the source of the gold/materials/etc. Point was an hour of time provided enough "resources" (be it heartwood/regulus/etc, or gold from selling other items) to be able to make a sizable dent in furnishing a house.

Yet, you still will erroneously argue that "It takes an hour to make a 3 legged chair".

Just like in real life, you don't have to do everything yourself to get everything, you are allowed to barter and trade to get items that are earned in tasks you don't enjoy. Some people like farming, some people like playing the trading game, some like doing writs. We each have our niche. We all also have our threshold for what we'll do and at what cost. Yes, there is some cost involved, furnishing is expensive, it's meant to be a gold sink, and it's a fairly good one, thank goodness, otherwise inflation would be even worse.

(The ONLY argument you could make about the expense of some materials is the usage of Chromium PLATINGS in some plans... they should be a GRAIN or two instead)

tmbrinks

Pinoh wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

activity.Current as of 2/28/20...
we were running investigations surrounding some suspicious black market activity.

I guess the question is there anyone here left to deny that market manipulation takes place. I guess there probably are; just doing the typical apologist attacks on anyone who complains about something. Or perhaps they were/are just vile commodity flippers, defending their illicit practices. Oh my!

Gold Selling does not equal ESO market manipulation. Any good price tracking add-on will omit outliers anyways, I know mine does... and conveniently my prices are 20-30% lower... So, using bad data (or purposefully keeping bad data in the set) to prove a point, sounds fishy.

You are conflating two completely separate issues.

VaranisArano

Pinoh wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hey, don't misrepresent my data.
I've since finished up my data and sold the results, so 12 hrs of farming.....Gold from sales: 1,023,651
As you can see, the actual furnishing mat drops are rather irrelevant when you consider how many mats/recipes I can buy for 1 million gold.

Ever since Homestead launched Housing, ZOS made it clear that furnishing your house wasn't supposed to be something that happens all at once. Its something that takes time and gold. But I'll be blunt - 12 hours farming for 1 million gold or so will make a pretty good dent on furnishing a large house for most players. Even for a player who's determined to buy their own recipes and mats to build everything with their own hands.

There wasn't any data to misrepresent, you said it took you an hour to make one three legged chair. Sort of anecdotal and from a sample size, so small as to be meaningless. But hey, good job trying to keep track of that. Here's your gold star.

All I take away form that is you sold it all. So you Don't actually craft stuff and sell that right, because you know, that would pretty much be insane in today's commodity market. Yep furniture crafting is broken, your own 'data' makes this abundantly clear, furniture is worth less than the materials it takes to make. Or you'd be selling furniture, since it seems you're keen on making lots of in game gold.

So all you've proven, is that they need to reduce the costs of making furniture; thank you for your time and contribution to making this case. Not that it wasn't blatantly obvious to begin with.

Pretty sure they meant unlocking achievements, not it taking months to gather crafting materials. But hey, potato or potatoe?

Since it wasn't entirely clear, that gold doesn't include the furnishing mats -those would be used to craft my own furniture. It includes the regular crafting mats, reagents, nirncrux, etc. that I did sell because I'm long past the point of hoarding.

If you do the math using the OP's numbers, spending the full amount of gold, I could buy around 3,848 extra heartwood at their recent most expensive price. Most purple plans require 13 Heartwood and gold plans require 15 Heartwood.

And you'd be incorrect about my motives re: the profitability of crafting furnishings anyway. I farm primarily because its relaxing. I could make money crafting furnishings and selling them, but the market for furnishings is so much smaller and less stable than the market for mats that its not really worth my time. Sure, I'd get more profit out of crafting furnishings, but if I decided to break into that market, I'd need another trading guild for those additional listings and I don't want to bother when my current methods are easier and bring an acceptable amount of profit.


I mean, honestly, this comes down to what we think is an acceptable amount of time spent to furnish a house.

From my perspective, there's nothing preventing players from earning gold through various in game activities to fund their Housing habit. As with any MMO, you get out of it what you put in. 12 hours farming for 1 million gold to spend on furnishing mats or furnishings? Since I find it relaxing, I'm willing to say that's reasonable. Someone for whom farming is like pulling teeth can disagree.

Your suggestion is that ZOS should make it easier for players to fund their housing habit without having to dedicate much, if any, time to gaining mats or gold to furnish their houses. I believe I asked you earlier what you considered a "reasonable amount of farming" and you've still not provided an answer.

So do tell. What do you consider a "reasonable amount of farming"? I'd like to test your measure - assuming its an actual measurable amount of farming, not just "I should be able to fund my furnishings from looting chests and killing mobs in my daily dungeons" or "I should be able to fund my furnishings by just picking up the nodes on the way to the nearest town."

VaranisArano

tmbrinks wrote: »

Pinoh wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Hey, don't misrepresent my data.
I've since finished up my data and sold the results, so 12 hrs of farming.....Gold from sales: 1,023,651
As you can see, the actual furnishing mat drops are rather irrelevant when you consider how many mats/recipes I can buy for 1 million gold.

Ever since Homestead launched Housing, ZOS made it clear that furnishing your house wasn't supposed to be something that happens all at once. Its something that takes time and gold. But I'll be blunt - 12 hours farming for 1 million gold or so will make a pretty good dent on furnishing a large house for most players. Even for a player who's determined to buy their own recipes and mats to build everything with their own hands.

There wasn't any data to misrepresent, you said it took you an hour to make one three legged chair. Sort of anecdotal and from a sample size, so small as to be meaningless. But hey, good job trying to keep track of that. Here's your gold star.

All I take away form that is you sold it all. So you Don't actually craft stuff and sell that right, because you know, that would pretty much be insane in today's commodity market. Yep furniture crafting is broken, your own 'data' makes this abundantly clear, furniture is worth less than the materials it takes to make. Or you'd be selling furniture, since it seems you're keen on making lots of in game gold.

So all you've proven, is that they need to reduce the costs of making furniture; thank you for your time and contribution to making this case. Not that it wasn't blatantly obvious to begin with.

Pretty sure they meant unlocking achievements, not it taking months to gather crafting materials. But hey, potato or potatoe?

Continuing to misrepresent, and twist his statements to "prove" your point?

It doesn't matter the source of the gold/materials/etc. Point was an hour of time provided enough "resources" (be it heartwood/regulus/etc, or gold from selling other items) to be able to make a sizable dent in furnishing a house.

Yet, you still will erroneously argue that "It takes an hour to make a 3 legged chair".

Just like in real life, you don't have to do everything yourself to get everything, you are allowed to barter and trade to get items that are earned in tasks you don't enjoy. Some people like farming, some people like playing the trading game, some like doing writs. We each have our niche. We all also have our threshold for what we'll do and at what cost. Yes, there is some cost involved, furnishing is expensive, it's meant to be a gold sink, and it's a fairly good one, thank goodness, otherwise inflation would be even worse.

(The ONLY argument you could make about the expense of some materials is the usage of Chromium PLATINGS in some plans... they should be a GRAIN or two instead)

Yep.

Just to clarify a point or two where I think I was confusing, I may have been unintentionally confusing when I first said I got enough Heartwood to make an epic or legendary item in about an hour. Most epic items require 13 Heartwood. Most legendary items require 15 Heartwood.

My final drop rate was, on average, 14 Heartwood an hour. There's one data sample where I wrote 5 and I'm not sure if I miswrote since 15 would be much more in line with the rest of my samples, but I went with 5 for the math.

As I had stated, that looks horrible. Only 14 Heartwood an hour? But as you also note, that doesn't include the profit I make from selling the other items I farm, which lets me buy a lot more Heartwood.


And the "decent sized dent on furnishing a house' was in reference to the 1 million gold for 12 hours of farming. Though to be fair, an hourly average of 85k gold is nothing to sneeze at either. That's an extra 319 Heartwood I can buy if I need to.


Math is fun!
If I limit myself to solely what I farm out of this air, I get 14 heartwood an hour. How awful!
If I sell whatever I don't need for a reasonable profit, I get 333 Heartwood.
So there's a disparity there, sure, but I'm pretty sure it points to the ability of players to get gold from a variety of activities in order to fund their housing habit if they desire.

idk

erliesc wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Every Crafting Related event spikes prices on in demand materials. They always float down after the event is over.

This only affects the unprepared or newer player who has not built up a stock.

To insulate your self, just buy a couple of stacks of the mats you will use before the next event, which should be the Anniversery event. And, even then, you should only need cloth, other mats are self sustaining or a net gain.

Disagree. IF the more or less *ncompetant people who run this game would use a standard deviation limit on prices...the extremes would be avoided. There would be much less chance of any player affecting prices and profiting from "price fixing games" Prices would and could still move but would only reflect the general demand....not somebodies get rich quick scheme.

I think the price issues are now affecting guild trader prices as those who profited are starting to hog the guild trader spots?

It's real wonderful that some can anticipate price moves due to "events" and all...very clever...but not if it trashes the overall pricing system....and the game.

The issue is just a PITA for me...since I have enough game gold to get thru it. But it just ruins the game for newer players who now learn that they can't trust the pricing system...and can't get ahead because of it.

This makes no sense. This person accuses the devs of being incompetent because they have not incompetent because we have a supply and demand system instead of socialist price controls. It seems to be a little bit if entitlement going on here.

If you find the price of an item to high go out and do the work to get it yourself for free. It really is that simple and works better than bashing the devs so absurd.

It is just as odd that this person bashes guilds that have players smart enough to sell their wares when the demand for them is high. That is just smart players reaping the reward for their effort.

I_killed_Vivec

idk wrote: »

erliesc wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Every Crafting Related event spikes prices on in demand materials. They always float down after the event is over.

This only affects the unprepared or newer player who has not built up a stock.

To insulate your self, just buy a couple of stacks of the mats you will use before the next event, which should be the Anniversery event. And, even then, you should only need cloth, other mats are self sustaining or a net gain.

Disagree. IF the more or less *ncompetant people who run this game would use a standard deviation limit on prices...the extremes would be avoided. There would be much less chance of any player affecting prices and profiting from "price fixing games" Prices would and could still move but would only reflect the general demand....not somebodies get rich quick scheme.

I think the price issues are now affecting guild trader prices as those who profited are starting to hog the guild trader spots?

It's real wonderful that some can anticipate price moves due to "events" and all...very clever...but not if it trashes the overall pricing system....and the game.

The issue is just a PITA for me...since I have enough game gold to get thru it. But it just ruins the game for newer players who now learn that they can't trust the pricing system...and can't get ahead because of it.

This makes no sense. This person accuses the devs of being incompetent because they have not incompetent because we have a supply and demand system instead of socialist price controls. It seems to be a little bit if entitlement going on here.

If you find the price of an item to high go out and do the work to get it yourself for free. It really is that simple and works better than bashing the devs so absurd.

It is just as odd that this person bashes guilds that have players smart enough to sell their wares when the demand for them is high. That is just smart players reaping the reward for their effort.

People want price controls on stuff they want to buy, and a free market economy on things they want to sell

Though the devs don't completely ignore prices - they switched writs that required nirnroot when the price of that got out of hand, and they mark down the value of legendary woodworking master writs, presumably because resin is so much cheaper than wax or tempers.

JKorr

Pinoh wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

activity.Current as of 2/28/20...
we were running investigations surrounding some suspicious black market activity.

I guess the question is there anyone here left to deny that market manipulation takes place. I guess there probably are; just doing the typical apologist attacks on anyone who complains about something. Or perhaps they were/are just vile commodity flippers, defending their illicit practices. Oh my!

Now that you've got some of the black market players, it's time for some market correction! Yay ZOS for looking after the players, don't just stop half way though. Put furnishing materials in surveys and/or reduce requirements in furniture plans.

But anyway, let's be honest here, we all spend too much time on a game. And probably have time management issues. But most of us want to actually spend that time, you know actually playing a game, not doing something that emulates work on some basic level.

Grind in other games is mostly irrelevant, if the reward to grind is too low here. then that's an issue for this game and the players here. If you like playing even grindier games, go for it. Playing a game that emulates a factory line mindless gathering mentality. umm kind of, sort of, isn't really a game at all to most people, despite all the farm game lovers that may exist.

Unlike a reeses peanut butter cup, when you put your mindless farming game, into my stabbing things game, or house decorating game. It doesn't in fact make it better. In fact it makes it much much worse.

Oh it's gated housing you say, its supposed to work that way. Yes it is gated, by selling 100 dollar houses, you know the hundred bucks. Yeah I know there are some cheaper ones that are just 40 or 50 as well. The gate is the money, you know what keeps the game running; not a life of servitude in an imaginary game to try to furnish an imaginary house. Even the apologists defending the grind, say it takes an hour of hard core farming to make a piece a furniture. So um just 700 hours to furnish that mansion you just paid a hundred bucks for.

So housing already has a huge buy in cost. The recipes are already rare and or expensive, providing a second hurdle. Why does it also have massive amounts of rare materials to make the furnishings? They are placed in the recipes at basic farming material quantities, about the same as vendor style materials. The actually rare style materials are only required in quantities or 1 or 2 by comparison. It's nuts, furnishing materials need to be adjusted down and treated like rare items that aren't in surveys and provided in massive quantities to players.

It really would have been nice to have the full quote, instead of a cherry-picked single sentence. I have to ask. How do you know that Gina was referring to mats/ingredients at the traders? It sounded a lot more like they were going after botters/goldsellers. Because someone posted the email they got about why they were banned.

Gina's post:

Hi everyone,

First, we want to clarify that the bans in question had nothing to do with utilizing any addons. In this case, we were running investigations surrounding some suspicious black market activity. We have several ways we monitor for suspicious activity, and when an investigation needs to take place, some innocent accounts will unintentionally get swept up during that time.

We worked as quickly as possible to unban any accounts that were found to be uninvolved; if your account was initially affected and you have since been unbanned, you have nothing to be worried about and your account will remain in good standing.

As we historically don’t allow for discussion surrounding disciplinary actions, we’re going to close this thread. If you have further questions, please reach out to our Support team by submitting a ticket on the website.

This is what one poster got:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6631853/#Comment_6631853

darthgummibear_ESO

With the exception of a couple region-specific mats I farm all my own stuff, so no. When you buy things from a trader you are effectively buying someone else's time. If you can't find a price suitable for you, farm it yourself. Like others have said, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Ri_Khan

Well the price gouging parasites certainly have come out in full force for the Jubilee event. Been watching common items be cherry picked at their normal price and then get reposted a little while later marked up 6-7x. These people are gross.

erliesc

So it has been almost 4 MONTHS since the price SPIKES started and here are the current results:


Bast...orig avg = 14-15 current avg = 56.... 3.7xs the price

Regulus...orig avg = 12 current avg = 30.... 2.5xs the price

Heartwood...orig avg = 30 current avg = 242.... 8xs the price


Could it be that this was INTENTIONAL? LOL!!!

Apparently it wasn't incompetence...or it would have been fixed by now.


I have 6 month charts...so I'll report on this ongoing debacle on a more or less monthly basis...

....

A fair warning: I have a lot of cred with the NPCs in this game (they constantly tell me how important I am) ....one word from me and they will likely ALL go on strike...all across Tamriel...then we'll see who's running the show...

Jaimeh

I've noticed the price increase as well, especially with mundane rune being sold for 600/per a while back all of a sudden. Now it's dropped to 300-350, but generally prices are overall higher. Some of it could have been due to market manipulation, I'll give you that (because that mundane rune spike was really out of the blue), but it's being maintained because of demand, otherwise prices would drop back down. More and more players are getting into Housing, and since most furniture require heartwood/mundane rune, these are in constant demand. There are more houses and more recipes added to the game as well, plus, I really think people did more farming before the events were introduced. As a result, furnishing mats sell well and sell fast, without any market shenanigans going on. It's always a pain to have your crafting being limited by the materials, but like VaranisArano said above, it's more efficient to farm for the gold rather than the material itself.

tmbrinks

Jaimeh wrote: »

I've noticed the price increase as well, especially with mundane rune being sold for 600/per a while back all of a sudden. Now it's dropped to 300-350, but generally prices are overall higher. Some of it could have been due to market manipulation, I'll give you that (because that mundane rune spike was really out of the blue), but it's being maintained because of demand, otherwise prices would drop back down. More and more players are getting into Housing, and since most furniture require heartwood/mundane rune, these are in constant demand. There are more houses and more recipes added to the game as well, plus, I really think people did more farming before the events were introduced. As a result, furnishing mats sell well and sell fast, without any market shenanigans going on. It's always a pain to have your crafting being limited by the materials, but like VaranisArano said above, it's more efficient to farm for the gold rather than the material itself.

Hmm... a logical reason for why things are the way they are... without resorting to tinfoil hat theories. I like!