Trader swap issue - EU server

StabbityDoom

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

That was -one- reason off the top of my head, and a rather important one, too.

I guess it is important for you. You could also just bid more and win the bid or stay online until an inconvient moment if you really care that much.

And like people always say about nightcapping in Cyrodill "one person their downtime is another person their prime time".

Maybe the classrep who makes PvP builds without impen can take the trade classrep duties as his side gig?

Again, you are showing your ignorance on the subject. You cannot predict what someone else will bid - it's a blind bid. Someone could go and bid 100mil for all you know, and you will lose. You can't stop that from happening, but you can be there to scramble to try to find something. Why does this even matter to you?

Bosov

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

That was -one- reason off the top of my head, and a rather important one, too.

I guess it is important for you. You could also just bid more and win the bid or stay online until an inconvient moment if you really care that much.

And like people always say about nightcapping in Cyrodill "one person their downtime is another person their prime time".

Maybe the classrep who makes PvP builds without impen can take the trade classrep duties as his side gig?

Again, you are showing your ignorance on the subject. You cannot predict what someone else will bid - it's a blind bid. Someone could go and bid 100mil for all you know, and you will lose. You can't stop that from happening, but you can be there to scramble to try to find something. Why does this even matter to you?

I dont think there is a need for a trade rep... that is all. The rep program is bad enough as it is while it was a good idea.

Yeah sure, someone could do a 100mil bid. I dont know how often that does happen but i usually see the same guilds in the same spot so it doesnt seem to happen that often and certainly not for a long period.

Besides that, too bad if a big guild doesnt have a spot. There are enough other guilds who can offer the same services. A smaller guild could even grow big if a big guild doesnt get a spot and members leave that big trade guild.

They made fliptime more convient for themself. Okay, great. If that is the rather important chance the tradeguild GMs made i am sure we can handle without a trade rep.

Again, i just dont think a trade rep is needed. If we get a trade rep, will we also need a RP rep, a housing rep or a quests rep?

VaranisArano

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

That was -one- reason off the top of my head, and a rather important one, too.

I guess it is important for you. You could also just bid more and win the bid or stay online until an inconvient moment if you really care that much.

And like people always say about nightcapping in Cyrodill "one person their downtime is another person their prime time".

Maybe the classrep who makes PvP builds without impen can take the trade classrep duties as his side gig?

Again, you are showing your ignorance on the subject. You cannot predict what someone else will bid - it's a blind bid. Someone could go and bid 100mil for all you know, and you will lose. You can't stop that from happening, but you can be there to scramble to try to find something. Why does this even matter to you?

Again, i just dont think a trade rep is needed. If we get a trade rep, will we also need a RP rep, a housing rep or a quests rep?

The Housing community would love a Representative, just saying.

Or ZOS could figure out how to communicate better so that players don't feel like their section of the playerbase is being ignored if they don't have a Rep, but that's apparently harder than it seems since ZOS can't manage it.

MLGProPlayer

marius_buys wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

idk wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Thorvarg wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just letting you know that we are working on a resolution to this issue from yesterday. More details to come as we continue to investigate, stay tuned...

I think it is well understandable who has received excessive repayments. These guilds / guild leaders, of course, the sum must be deducted again. Once they have spent this money, and thus exploited intentionally, they should be banned permanently and their assets confiscated.

...and what about the loss of income due to insufficient testing?

I agree. It is sad so few players take seriously testing updates on the PTS which is the only way a change like this can be tested properly. The lack of interest is a serious flaw in testing such changes and you are right to call out the player base for the poor testing that was done. Maybe next time we will get more interest and more will be tested.

This was something that was hard to test. You needed GMs to log onto the PTS (which is a very small group of players), and it could only be tested once a week (using that very tiny sample, since only a small portion of the already small GM population was on the PTS). Having said that, the bug didn't arise on the PTS for those that did test it. Even now, it only showed up on PC/EU (PC/NA was fine).

Ever heard of software simulation? Quite commonly used to stress test a programme.

And how are PTS testers supposed to access software simulation? The post I quoted said PTS testers don't take testing seriously, but this wasn't something they could test any more thoroughly than they did.

SteveCampsOut

Titansteele wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Our GM just had sent a message telling we lost our trader for good after todays patch. And we lost the money we bidded too.

Mind you, we won the bid.

But then someone else managed to snatch the trader from under our noses. Now we have no money and no trader. We lost a crapton of money because we had lost the bid for two weeks in a row, and needed to rise the bid. And now this happened.

Something doesn't add up here, people were refunded 4 times the bids which is one of the problems encountered and a topic of hot discussion in this thread. You may have no trader but you should not have no money.

What part of they won the bid did you not understand? When you win the bid your gold is gone, even if the game glitches and allows exploiters to come along and hire your trader. Your bid gold is gone!

SteveCampsOut

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for everyone’s patience while we continue investigating the guild trader and multi-bidding issues that recently occurred on the PC EU server. To give everyone an update, the issues impacting the guild traders from this past weekend were ultimately tied to the overall game load and related processing requests. The cause was a high volume of add-on requests, game server requests, and multi-bid process requests all hitting at once.

As a temporary solution, we’ve disabled the guild history API functionality that addons use on the PC NA and EU servers until we have additional safeguards in place. Disabling this functionality is the quickest and least impactful way to effectively adjust the overall load on the game. We’re still working on adding the additional safeguards and once we’ve tested it internally, we’ll determine if it’s something we can hotfix or if we’ll need to add it to an incremental patch. We’re also discussing the possibility of moving when guild trader ownership switches to another time that’s outside of primetime hours, but still during a reasonable time.

As for the excess gold that some guilds received, we’re currently reviewing which guilds and individuals were affected and will be determining an appropriate course of action soon.

We apologize for the trouble and confusion all this has caused, and appreciate your continued patience.

There remain guilds who only placed one winning bid who lost their gold and got no refunds whatsoever. I hope you're "Looking Into" those issues as well!

StabbityDoom

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

That was -one- reason off the top of my head, and a rather important one, too.

I guess it is important for you. You could also just bid more and win the bid or stay online until an inconvient moment if you really care that much.

And like people always say about nightcapping in Cyrodill "one person their downtime is another person their prime time".

Maybe the classrep who makes PvP builds without impen can take the trade classrep duties as his side gig?

Again, you are showing your ignorance on the subject. You cannot predict what someone else will bid - it's a blind bid. Someone could go and bid 100mil for all you know, and you will lose. You can't stop that from happening, but you can be there to scramble to try to find something. Why does this even matter to you?

Again, i just dont think a trade rep is needed. If we get a trade rep, will we also need a RP rep, a housing rep or a quests rep?

The Housing community would love a Representative, just saying.

Or ZOS could figure out how to communicate better so that players don't feel like their section of the playerbase is being ignored if they don't have a Rep, but that's apparently harder than it seems since ZOS can't manage it.

I am also big into housing and let me tell you, we in housing need it a lot less than trading.

KappaKid83

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for everyone’s patience while we continue investigating the guild trader and multi-bidding issues that recently occurred on the PC EU server. To give everyone an update, the issues impacting the guild traders from this past weekend were ultimately tied to the overall game load and related processing requests. The cause was a high volume of add-on requests, game server requests, and multi-bid process requests all hitting at once.

As a temporary solution, we’ve disabled the guild history API functionality that addons use on the PC NA and EU servers until we have additional safeguards in place. Disabling this functionality is the quickest and least impactful way to effectively adjust the overall load on the game. We’re still working on adding the additional safeguards and once we’ve tested it internally, we’ll determine if it’s something we can hotfix or if we’ll need to add it to an incremental patch. We’re also discussing the possibility of moving when guild trader ownership switches to another time that’s outside of primetime hours, but still during a reasonable time.

As for the excess gold that some guilds received, we’re currently reviewing which guilds and individuals were affected and will be determining an appropriate course of action soon.

We apologize for the trouble and confusion all this has caused, and appreciate your continued patience.

It is always patience, it is always server load, it is always turn off this function or that function. Please tell me when an actual fix is going to come, and don't point me to the road map of changes I understand that is a timeline you are shooting for but at this rate will not attain. You are not responsible for the development of this game but the people who are that you report for should be ashamed. The performance on both servers is at an all time low since the Elsweyr patch and it seems no one cares to make an impactful change within your organization. It's time for a change, to the servers and the team, this is pathetic.

tahol10069

@ZOS_GinaBruno And what about guilds that a) won their bid b) didn't get the trader because someone snatched it from under their noses for 10k because people could just go to a trader and do that c) didn't get the bid back and are now out of the bid money for the next round.

Because comes next Sunday, we are out of luck. Might aswell disband the whole guild. You came up with this stupid trading system that gate keeps the trading, this is the result. How are you going to fix that?

rumple9

Trading is end game for me

silvereyes

rumple9 wrote: »

Trading was end game for me

Fixed that for you.

Grimm13

kate.georgeb16_ESO wrote: »

Just a thought, if the server load meant that it took the server too long to process the bids, why don't they simply close bidding a bit earlier, say half an hour before trader swap, and give the server longer to process it? Alternatively leave it longer before traders are available for hire, say 15 minutes instead of 5 minutes?

This. Last bid 15min before closing traders for processing on the appointed hour. All traders close while processing the bids and reopen 15 min after the appointed hour with the new winners and open traders can be hired.

ZOS we also need to ask yourself why are some many addons are in use. The answer is because your lacks the features that players want and you have been lazy in making your game. You created this debacle by passing the buck to the Addon dev's instead of making them features of your game. Yet as pointed out consoles do not have addons and they still have the lag issues.

The real truth is that your system was not designed to handle the number of players that you have. As the population has grown so to has it become more and more apparent that your code can not handle it. Stop passing the buck, own your issues and fix the problems. The policy of not going back into previously released content to fix it needs to stop. You just add problems on top of problems.

Fix the problems before doing more DLC's. Create a survey that appears at load in until completed to find out what is important to players. Keep doing the surveys as needs do change, should be quarterly.

Have Dev's communicate in the threads, they do not have to answer all questions but post something so players know they have seen it at least.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Grimm13

reoskit wrote: »

I’d QFT you @silvereyes, but it’s a long (and completely correct) post.

Amen to everything you said.

agreed. I suggested the reduced 2 - 3 bids because I did foresee that it might not go as thought. Even said that it would allow them to measure how much added load on the servers it would cause and then they can see about increasing the bid numbers gradually.

I am very familiar with systems on paper should work a certain way in theory but in practice do not. Too many factors that are not added in the theories.

Kosbert

So we can agree that nothing will happen. Like after a bot report, the answer is "We investigate the case, but we won't inform you about the outcome".

wenchmore420b14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for everyone’s patience while we continue investigating the guild trader and multi-bidding issues that recently occurred on the PC EU server. To give everyone an update, the issues impacting the guild traders from this past weekend were ultimately tied to the overall game load and related processing requests. The cause was a high volume of add-on requests, game server requests, and multi-bid process requests all hitting at once.

As a temporary solution, we’ve disabled the guild history API functionality that addons use on the PC NA and EU servers until we have additional safeguards in place. Disabling this functionality is the quickest and least impactful way to effectively adjust the overall load on the game. We’re still working on adding the additional safeguards and once we’ve tested it internally, we’ll determine if it’s something we can hotfix or if we’ll need to add it to an incremental patch. We’re also discussing the possibility of moving when guild trader ownership switches to another time that’s outside of primetime hours, but still during a reasonable time.

As for the excess gold that some guilds received, we’re currently reviewing which guilds and individuals were affected and will be determining an appropriate course of action soon.

We apologize for the trouble and confusion all this has caused, and appreciate your continued patience.

Wow!! Just got home from work and 6+ new pages to this thread!!
Well. I'll start here and if I replicate a response, sorry.

Is EU that much a larger base than NA?
All went ok with NA. (Except we still didn't want it !!!)
Add-Ons? Really? Server/Bid requests? But NA was fine?

Not gonna question more about this BUT I just want to say/ remind ZoS...........
WE TOLD YOU!!! In PTS feedback, 50+ pages of response, and majority of GM's PLEADING not to go live with this!!!
There was NO WAY it could be tested properly in PTS. We as a group of GM's Told you, explained to you, and asked for you to communicate with us about this and we were ignored.

But you went live with it anyway....
Even with NA going ok, I spent extra hours of game play, a 2 week raffle, and millions of my gold to have a "Adjusting" and "Just live with it" attitude.
Then I read about our EU brethren and what happened?
All I can say is .... Does anyone have a GoT "Shame" meme????
Shame ZoS, Shame!!!!!

My 2 Drakes!
Huzzah!!

JPS

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To give everyone an update, the issues impacting the guild traders from this past weekend were ultimately tied to the overall game load and related processing requests. The cause was a high volume of add-on requests, game server requests, and multi-bid process requests all hitting at once.

As a temporary solution, we’ve disabled the guild history API functionality that addons use on the PC NA and EU servers until we have additional safeguards in place. Disabling this functionality is the quickest and least impactful way to effectively adjust the overall load on the game.

Right... because disabling history and API functionality AFTER the problem occured and knowing it won't occur untill at least next sunday, solves... what exactly? It only aggrivates me more that once again you make me deaf, dumb and blind and unable to properly run a guild, basicly for nothing. Seriously, you people....

Derra

Dosuul wrote: »

@ban spammers

You can't ban the guild masters for getting more gold back, since it's not their fault, the system freaked out.

I just hope this Sunday all will be back to normal and live goes on.

If they spent any of it they took advantage of an obivous game error.

This isn´t different from getting bugged achievements in trials - apart from that it´s actually harming other players. Permaban is the only action that makes any sense.

vesselwiththepestle

Exploiting = ban

So it is possible the same happens another sunday! also it could happen on other servers, too, if they have unusual high load.

Great!

Arrodisia

IMO most of the issues in this game are caused by lagging servers and bugs.

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

Oh come on, it is not like running a trade guild is rocket science and guildleaders of trade guilds should have a say in how the trade system in the game should be working.

Personally i would rather have all the marketstall npcs deleted and replaced with one big action house.

What is a trade rep going to add to the discusion? "As a representitive of the traders in Tamriel and other areas, i suggest we lower the taxes on sales by a certain percentage."

Bolded the most relevant portion.

I'm sure your question was rhetorical but I'll go ahead and pretend you wanted an answer.

Off of the top of my head, here are 4 things trade guild GMs helped influence:

- Bid Flips not in the middle of the night or during maintenance
- End of bid spying part 1
- End of bid spying part 2
- Better organized trading hubs (see: Vvardenfell, Summerset, Rimmen vs. Abah's Landing, Wrothgar)

I believe you bolded the wrong part.

Doesnt the system work with bidding whenever you want? You lose the gold the moment you bid but get it back if you dont get the tradespot? Does the flip time really matter.. only if you want to wait to bid until the very last moment i guess.

Bid spying.. well that could have been a reason to wait until the very last moment to bid.

Me, not a trade guild GM, could have told that to them. Those early dlc areas locations are just stupid. Wrothgar is located at a bad spot but when you had to do max level writs in Wrothgar you did pass them. There are also the traders in that little quest town but nobody goes there. Thieves guild location was just stupid.. in a harbor on boats and nowhere near a Wayshrine. Im glad they put the traders in better places but still... do you need a trade rep for that?

I dont know... doesnt really seem like a guild trader rep is needed. The whole rep program looks like a failed thing anyway...

How about - looking for an empty spot if you don't get your bid? It's possible, even now. If you don't know what you are talking about, why are you criticizing the people who do, AND who take enough interest to come here to inform ZOS about it?

So the big guild leader input was "change swaptimes for a more convient time for us so we can find a replacement spot?"

Yeah not sure if you really need a rep for that.

That was -one- reason off the top of my head, and a rather important one, too.

Yes. It was important for many GM's

JPS

Derra wrote: »

If they spent any of it they took advantage of an obivous game error.

This isn´t different from getting bugged achievements in trials - apart from that it´s actually harming other players. Permaban is the only action that makes any sense.

Errrmmmm, ok.. So how does getting a Guild Trader as a result of a bug fit into your whole sense of righteousness? Because isn't that exploiting a bug too ? What about the gold aquired from sales trough said trader ? And those people in those guilds taking advantage by inflated prices? Should those people be banned as well ?

Your logic is flawed. And by my guess mostly fuelled by envy. As goes for most of the people whining in here.

Derra

JPS wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If they spent any of it they took advantage of an obivous game error.

This isn´t different from getting bugged achievements in trials - apart from that it´s actually harming other players. Permaban is the only action that makes any sense.

Errrmmmm, ok.. So how does getting a Guild Trader as a result of a bug fit into your whole sense of righteousness? Because isn't that exploiting a bug too ? What about the gold aquired from sales trough said trader ? And those people in those guilds taking advantage by inflated prices? Should those people be banned as well ?

Your logic is flawed. And by my guess mostly fuelled by envy. As goes for most of the people whining in here.

So for you being affected by a bug unintentionally (being in a guild that got a trader) and taking advantage of a bug intentionally and knowingly (getting money back you know you didn´t bid + spending) is the same thing?

IDK how the guild trader thing worked or which guild got the trader in the end. So i have no idea how much control people had over that.

I know that if you got refunded too much money and spent it then you intentionally abused an obvious bug. So no - my logic is NOT flawed. Intentional bugabuse to gain personal advantage => ban. Being affected by a bug unintentionally or not taking advantage of it => nothing should happen.

I´m not envious in any form or shape. I just hate people that intentionally abuse bugs - which is what happened. Those people deserve to get punished.
Could you perhaps explain to me what i would be envious of?

For me it sounds like you´re one of those bugabusers and i hope you get permabanned if you are.

JPS

Yes, I am one of those. I also spend well over 150 euro each month on crowns to actually pay for my trader. Ban me, I dare you.

Thorvarg

I just checked the various (illegal) Goldseller sites. The price for 1 million gold is currently at about 15, - Euro. This means that the largest repayments, with complete sale, bring the appropriate guild leaders 15000, -Euro to 45000, -Euro. Do you think they are worried about possible / imminent sanctions by ZOS?

Derra

JPS wrote: »

Yes, I am one of those. I also spend well over 150 euro each month on crowns to actually pay for my trader. Ban me, I dare you.

I´m a possible a financial advantage - i shouldn´t get punished.

Gotta give it to you though. That´s the first time i´ve seen someone flatout admit being morally bankrupt.

JPS

I guess you don't get around much….

Derra

JPS wrote: »

I guess you don't get around much….

Usually the ppl don´t admit it ; )

anitajoneb17_ESO

reoskit wrote: »

All fair points, so long as multibidding actually works. Right now, how confident are you in that system?

You know I've always been pro-multibidding, and as a system, I'm still in favour of it. There's no denying that the technical implementation right now on EU is a complete disaster, but that's the technical side of things, not the system as such.
Considering that things went smooth on NA, we can safely assume that the overall server performance issues on EU are to blame, and not the multibidding code as such. So yes, so far I'm still confident in that system. And yes, my questions regarding the flip time implied "under long term normal circumstances, assuming the code and the server work as intended".

DragonRacer wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

To those asking that ZOS consults with GMs before setting (perhaps) another timing for the traders' flip : may I ask why ?

You raise valid points.

Here are my reasons for why trader flip at a reasonably accessible time would still be desired:

1. To try and survive/hire in case of a disaster scenario like what PC EU just endured

2. To try and hire in the event that all bids failed and if you can find an open trader. The likelihood of open traders seems like it would be less due to multi-bidding, but there is still that chance. And not all guilds can afford to place a back-up bid or multiple back-up bids. One could say "well, that is the guild's fault" but that's a bit callous. I actually know of a dues-charging guild that plans to stick with just the one primary bid due to how their weekly income looks versus the types of traders they are accustomed to bidding on. And there are plenty of small and medium-sized guilds who can only fundraise what they can fundraise weekly and place their one bid... it would be good that, if their bid loses, they would still have a chance to try and find an open trader to hire. Since multi-bidding does them absolutely no good whatsoever and changes nothing for their GMing lives in that instance.

It doesn't personally affect me either way. I plan to place multiple bids and whatever day/time is decided to be the new time, then I will place my bids prior to then. It would suck if it flips in the middle of the night or when I'm at work because I will, of course, be champing at the bit to know if we won or lost - the instant gratification of standing there watching it happen and knowing you either won or you need to scramble is reassuring in that at least you know right then and there. But changing wouldn't be the end of the world to me. Heck, as it is, I am only able to be present for current trader flip for half of the year anyway because once Daylight Savings Time hits, flip happens right at our family dinner time and so I have to fully rely on my officers to do what needs to be done if we lose.

As far as if all GMs would be able to agree upon a day/time... unsure. Possibly, since folks seem to do just fine with the status quo day/time. But most likely not because there will never be accounting for all possible time zones and work/personal schedules which will always inevitably change anyway as GMs come and go. *shrugs*

Thanks for your detailed explanations. I understand that the bids and the trader flip are a big part of the thrill & stress of running a trading guild, and therefore, GMs want to "be there" when it happens, whether some action can still be undertaken or not.

The problem I see with consulting GMs about a potential new trader flip schedule is that the "most convenient time" for "most GMs" will most probably also be the "most convenient time for most players", which means super-prime-time... while the intention behind moving that schedule would be to transfer the flip outside of peak hours, which probably means inconvenient for most GMs...

anitajoneb17_ESO

JPS wrote: »

Yes, I am one of those. I also spend well over 150 euro each month on crowns to actually pay for my trader.

.... whaaaaaat ???? Oh my...
Oh well, what you do with your cash is your business, but still... I don't get it :-)

agegarton

Moonsorrow wrote: »

All gm & officers of those trade guilds who did get duplicate gold and spent it to buy markets half empty out of all valuable materials, consumables and gear to launder it and to later up the prices to make even more gold should get a permanent BAN.

No need to explain, they ruined the whole economy. Exploited error in code = TOS violation. One that affects our whole EU server and makes finding even some simple materials really hard. Playing has become frustrating.

Been really bad experience the last days, lots of toxicity because of it. Need strict punishments so people remember next time and really think before exploiting.

I know there are mostly honest trade guild leaders, but.. even reading this thread, couple clear cases can be seen who are defending the ones who went to spent the exploited gold and say there should not be punishments. Tells a lot. Scared because might end up without their account.

We need permanent bans for those who exploited the duplicate gold. No other choice. I wish ZOS will be strict on this issue. We the majority of players who have to "live" with this economy will support heavy punishments so let that Volendrung hit hard on all exploiters since they made our daily playing a lot less fun.

You patently do not know what you’re talking about. The ignorance of your post is staggering. I suggest you read up on the issue, or STFU.

agegarton

Derra wrote: »

JPS wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If they spent any of it they took advantage of an obivous game error.

This isn´t different from getting bugged achievements in trials - apart from that it´s actually harming other players. Permaban is the only action that makes any sense.

Errrmmmm, ok.. So how does getting a Guild Trader as a result of a bug fit into your whole sense of righteousness? Because isn't that exploiting a bug too ? What about the gold aquired from sales trough said trader ? And those people in those guilds taking advantage by inflated prices? Should those people be banned as well ?

Your logic is flawed. And by my guess mostly fuelled by envy. As goes for most of the people whining in here.

So for you being affected by a bug unintentionally (being in a guild that got a trader) and taking advantage of a bug intentionally and knowingly (getting money back you know you didn´t bid + spending) is the same thing?

IDK how the guild trader thing worked or which guild got the trader in the end. So i have no idea how much control people had over that.

I know that if you got refunded too much money and spent it then you intentionally abused an obvious bug. So no - my logic is NOT flawed. Intentional bugabuse to gain personal advantage => ban. Being affected by a bug unintentionally or not taking advantage of it => nothing should happen.

I´m not envious in any form or shape. I just hate people that intentionally abuse bugs - which is what happened. Those people deserve to get punished.
Could you perhaps explain to me what i would be envious of?

For me it sounds like you´re one of those bugabusers and i hope you get permabanned if you are.

Who has intentionally abused anything.....? Great post mate - you admit you haven’t got a clue what happened or how guild trader bids work, but you insist on making BS comments anyway. What a prat.