MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

WacArnold

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Well got to finally hit patch and I’m a bit lost. Played with a new setup of icy conjurer, shackle, skoria w/ bunch of dots. Didn’t do great. Switched to Alfiq lich bloodspawn. Idk it just feels weird. I feel like I need a tad more sustain which I’ll be able to get with an infused back bar setup. I just don’t feel tanky enough. Bloodspawn didn’t let me brawl like I’ve been used to. Haven’t played from stealth in a long time. Honestly might go back to the old morrowind build of trans riposte skoria.

Damn thats not good to hear i was thinking about a dot build. What sucked about it?

ScruffyWhiskers

Wow. Templars have become a real PITA this update.

I'm feeling similar to Datthaw. Might take another extended break. Probably wait and see if any of the sets in the fall DLC are interesting.

The cast times on ulitmates, SH to be specific, are awful and poorly thought out. I guess it's equaled out because I've dodged dozens of incaps and nobody seems to run dawnbreaker anymore but maybe I've just been luck?. Still, the design decision does not fit the combat style that this game excels at. It's a glaring eyesore.

PvP is really in a sad state right now and it's depressing since it's been one of my favorite gaming experiences in the last 5 years. But the pops are low in Cyrodiil PC NA and declining. And it's the same people, three mans, guilds and ball groups that you see every day.

Without the mayhem events there is no new blood coming in. There has been no innovation to speak of. The Hammer is still not well thought out and could use some tuning. The map is static during most of the day, and even in prime time truth be told.

Don't like being so negative and I know how tough design is, but the current trend in PvP is decline. I would love to see a DLC devoted to Cyrodiil but I would guess that would not make financial sense. Still there is no reason PvP in this game could not sell copies. It's infinite end game material and done better than all its competitors, at least to my tastes.

Insco851

WacArnold wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Well got to finally hit patch and I’m a bit lost. Played with a new setup of icy conjurer, shackle, skoria w/ bunch of dots. Didn’t do great. Switched to Alfiq lich bloodspawn. Idk it just feels weird. I feel like I need a tad more sustain which I’ll be able to get with an infused back bar setup. I just don’t feel tanky enough. Bloodspawn didn’t let me brawl like I’ve been used to. Haven’t played from stealth in a long time. Honestly might go back to the old morrowind build of trans riposte skoria.

Damn thats not good to hear i was thinking about a dot build. What sucked about it?

Everyone and their brother is running purge. Stam dk rocking purge. Any purge set is being used heavily. Purge bots on the rise.

Maulkin

brandonv516 wrote: »

-The 2s snare removal from RaT is not enough. It needs to be upped to 4s.

Phantasmal Escape is your friend. It's a bit expensive but 4s immunity instead of 2s and 33s of Major Evasion. Which is great against those Templars you're having trouble against, as well as Wardens and Necros.

I don't rate RAT on MagBlade. Minor Force is meh in PvP due to Impen and especially in no-CP due to less crit chance. As for the speed buff, you can get it from Refreshing Path which is actually a solid skill especially when you're holding your ground.

Insco851

Maulkin wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

-The 2s snare removal from RaT is not enough. It needs to be upped to 4s.

Phantasmal Escape is your friend. It's a bit expensive but 4s immunity instead of 2s and 33s of Major Evasion. Which is great against those Templars you're having trouble against, as well as Wardens and Necros.

I don't rate RAT on MagBlade. Minor Force is meh in PvP due to Impen and especially in no-CP due to less crit chance. As for the speed buff, you can get it from Refreshing Path which is actually a solid skill especially when you're holding your ground.

I’m on the other side of this argument- crit dmg in pvp still king IF you build for it. Like anything you can’t half ass it and get those great results. When I went for a tankier setup and dropped the extra crit modifiers- I reaaaally felt it.

GhostofDatthaw

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Wow. Templars have become a real PITA this update.

PvP is really in a sad state right now and it's depressing since it's been one of my favorite gaming experiences in the last 5 years. But the pops are low in Cyrodiil PC NA and declining. And it's the same people, three mans, guilds and ball groups that you see every day.

Without the mayhem events there is no new blood coming in. There has been no innovation to speak of. The Hammer is still not well thought out and could use some tuning. The map is static during most of the day, and even in prime time truth be told.

Don't like being so negative and I know how tough design is, but the current trend in PvP is decline. I would love to see a DLC devoted to Cyrodiil but I would guess that would not make financial sense. Still there is no reason PvP in this game could not sell copies. It's infinite end game material and done better than all its competitors, at least to my tastes.

Yeah I agree. PvP was much different before the "solo" and "small scale" craze. The PvP I feel in love with was populated with multiple guilds running like 10-20 man groups and everyone pushing objectives and coordinating. In time that has died and new players just faction stack and the old players think grouping is below them.

fred4

Maulkin wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

-The 2s snare removal from RaT is not enough. It needs to be upped to 4s.

Phantasmal Escape is your friend. It's a bit expensive but 4s immunity instead of 2s and 33s of Major Evasion. Which is great against those Templars you're having trouble against, as well as Wardens and Necros.

I don't rate RAT on MagBlade. Minor Force is meh in PvP due to Impen and especially in no-CP due to less crit chance. As for the speed buff, you can get it from Refreshing Path which is actually a solid skill especially when you're holding your ground.

Agreed on Phantasmal Escape in principle. However, speaking as a perma-cloaking speedblade, who deliberately eschewed the shade for RAT, Refreshing Path: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha <tears streamin down face> hahahahahahahahaha.

ScruffyWhiskers

fred4 wrote: »

Agreed on Phantasmal Escape in principle. However, speaking as a perma-cloaking speedblade, who deliberately eschewed the shade for RAT, Refreshing Path: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha <tears streamin down face> hahahahahahahahaha.

How does that RAT & refreshing path work for you? Don't you get pinged hard while getting the path laid down? I assume you go RAT, Path, and cloak? Do you have to have steed and all swift to do this you think?

Insco851

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Agreed on Phantasmal Escape in principle. However, speaking as a perma-cloaking speedblade, who deliberately eschewed the shade for RAT, Refreshing Path: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha <tears streamin down face> hahahahahahahahaha.

How does that RAT & refreshing path work for you? Don't you get pinged hard while getting the path laid down? I assume you go RAT, Path, and cloak? Do you have to have steed and all swift to do this you think?

Imo the speed mnb without shade needs AT LEAST 1 swift and steed.

WacArnold

Insco851 wrote: »

WacArnold wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Well got to finally hit patch and I’m a bit lost. Played with a new setup of icy conjurer, shackle, skoria w/ bunch of dots. Didn’t do great. Switched to Alfiq lich bloodspawn. Idk it just feels weird. I feel like I need a tad more sustain which I’ll be able to get with an infused back bar setup. I just don’t feel tanky enough. Bloodspawn didn’t let me brawl like I’ve been used to. Haven’t played from stealth in a long time. Honestly might go back to the old morrowind build of trans riposte skoria.

Damn thats not good to hear i was thinking about a dot build. What sucked about it?

Everyone and their brother is running purge. Stam dk rocking purge. Any purge set is being used heavily. Purge bots on the rise.

Ah makes sense. Tbh i just dont see magblade working except bombs. Not seriously against good players from what im hearing it just sounds out classed by to wide of a margin. Way to many counters.

fred4

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Agreed on Phantasmal Escape in principle. However, speaking as a perma-cloaking speedblade, who deliberately eschewed the shade for RAT, Refreshing Path: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha <tears streamin down face> hahahahahahahahaha.

How does that RAT & refreshing path work for you? Don't you get pinged hard while getting the path laid down? I assume you go RAT, Path, and cloak? Do you have to have steed and all swift to do this you think?

Huh? I was laughing at the suggestion that Refreshing Path is a good skill for a cloaking magblade. Yes, I know that was just a general suggestion, but in the case of using Shadowy, no, it's not. It's IMO only good when using the other morph of cloak and, even then, it was nerfed into the ground as far as I can see. The idea of having a speed skill tied to a limited size ground AOE is IMO an oxymoron, not to mention that it gives away your position while cloaked. It doesn't really need further elaboration, but I am also so fast with all the speed I stack, that I would probably outrun the Path in one second. A useless skill for my playstyle at least.

I use Concealed, Steed, all Swift (gold), Windrunning and RAT. Phantasmal Escape may be worth trying instead of RAT, but the swap is bound to be situational at best. What you gain in immunity and damage reduction, you lose in repositioning speed. The purpose of my build is to outrange people. If they are fast, I am faster. Ultimately that is the more generally useful thing to do. I've tried Mirage in addition to RAT, but it hasn't felt great. I ultimately settled for Inner Light in it's place, as that slightly buffs my shields and gives me more crit healing. Didn't think I'd settle for that, but I don't need to cast it and it strangely feels better than many alternatives in my build.

You don't have to stack all speed, as I do. My objective in doing that is to stay on top of players when I have Zaan on them or to get away from them and into cloak as a defense. The synergy with Cloak is just enormous the more speed you stack. I don't use the shade, because I like playing a highly reactive build. The shade requires foresight and it conflicts with a speed build, as you outrange your own shade very quickly too. The fights I like most are the slightly unorganised ones where the battlefield is strewn with players of all factions and spread out in a forest or in front of a keep. I work by poking / ganking players at one end of the battlefield, but once it becomes obvious that too many of them have caught on and are likely to focus me, I switch to another place. Perma-cloaking and speed give you freedom. You can take opportunities everywhere on the battlefield that you might not otherwise be able to get to. Some players occupy or stakeout flags, hoping enemies will come to them. I am the complete opposite. I don't like sitting still.

Rianai

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

Iskiab

Magblade ‘can’ work still solo and BGs, you just have to work with what you’re given:
- Healthy Offering can be ‘okay’ but is nothing special
- Bonus crit damage
- Cloak
- Decent ultimate gen
- Good sustain passive
- Stealth/invisible speed with concealed

That about sums up magblade this patch. You can still make it work, but any build you can come up with might be better on another class.

Downside is being a bit weaker and less versatility. While you could make lots of builds work before the patch, now you need to play to the class’ strengths or be really underpowered.

fred4

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

Completely agree.

I forgot to mention the GCD cost myself. RAT is such a no brainer for me, because it combines snare / root removal with speed in one GCD. When under pressure, it becomes extremely critical what skills you cast and in what order. Often there is only time to spam Dampen and Healing Ward, then I tend to Fear, but the next step is very tricky. Cloak or RAT first? RAT leaves you visible and they will probably hit you, before you get into cloak. On the other hand Cloak leaves you too close, if you have a root or snare on you. They'll hit you with AOE.

I had to choose. I chose very high speed, very high sustain and, lately, high (1.3K) stamina sustain. Between all the different options, that plays the best for me. There is often no time for even RAT, but only a dodge roll will save you, as you can animation cancel that before the next GCD.

For all the benefits I combine in my build, tankiness is not one one of them. Sometimes builds work best when you fully commit to one approach. This is such a case. I would get tankiness from Merciless, the shade, a different armor set, such as Buffer of the Swift. If I was stacking that, I think Phantasmal Escape would fit in better. Without doing so, it just doesn't seem to tilt the balance in enough fights for me.

ScruffyWhiskers

fred4 wrote: »

Huh? I was laughing at the suggestion that Refreshing Path is a good skill for a cloaking magblade.....

I don't like sitting still.

Ah, I see. I thought you had traded shade for RAT and path.

I really hate having to trade off the burst hitting power for the mobility by going to swift and/or steed mundas. With this latest patch I'd say you can take about 3k health off of what you thought was a doable target assuming the guy can break cc and doesn't panic.

I basically take my chances that I don't have a highly motivated high mobility enemy with a detect pot or a group that can focus fire me and keep me out of mist then stealth with cc, soul strike, jabs etc until I reach an obstacle to get around. It's crazy unfair what a stam nb can do for escape and still hit harder than me.

fred4

@ScruffyWhiskers, I can totally see where you are coming from. Speed is a big sacrifice. Because mag-stacking works off percentages from Siphoning passives and Inner Light, your magicka collapses as soon as you don't fully commit to that. Add a dual-regen drink and it's completely in the dumpster. I have about 33K on my shielding bar, with Bright Throat's and a Willpower resto. Shields are crap. Swallow Soul and Concealed are laughable, hovering between 6K and 7K unbuffed, in CP.

ZOS have been rather sly in giving Caluurion and Zaan crit bonuses, whereas the procs don't actually crit. Magicka would have been far better to help with shields. Caluurion has an 18K tooltip in CP (my build) and won't crit. Merciless can get anywhere up to 25K, but not in a proc build, and it can crit. Caluurion plays better, but I think there is some balance after all.

At least you are a vampire. You have Mist. I am not - for RP reasons.

Stamblades, yeah. That has seemed unfair for a long time, but I have felt their nerf, since spring. There is a certain type of player who built their stamblade solely for attack. They would aim to simply overpower you and, in my case, they could. The tables have turned. When I run into such people now - and I recognise them by name - I often kill them after their gank attempt.

Magplars on the other hand? A "properly" specced magplar hits me for 1.5K non-crit and 2k crit with a single strike from Sweeps. I can maybe briefly match that, if I get a Caluurion and Zaan proc. This guy can hit me that hard non-stop and probably used a detect potion. That's an unwinnable fight for a melee magblade. Granted not all magplars are as aggressively specced.

Just for laughs I went into IC with my stam DK, who I hardly play these days. Put on Steed, Fury, 7th, Troll King, gold food and the new Lingering + stam pots. I had 2K health regen without Troll King. I had Cauterize, Vigor and decent damage. Ran into a magplar who melted all my alliance mates. Completely different story. My DK was quite impossible to kill. I couldn't make a dent in him either, but then again I was trying Noxious Breath as a spammable.

godchucknzilla

This is a fun build I've been working on for BG:

Vampire
Attro mundus
Jewelry enchants mag recovery

Skoria/Calurion/Icy Conjurer/2x willpower rings

Or Maelstrom resto instead of will power rings

Food: tri food

Front Bar, fire destro callurion:
Swallow soul/Impale/cloak/concealed weapon/race against time/soul harvest

Rear Bar, healing staff icy conjurer:
Consuming trap/debilitate/structured entrophy/radiant regeneration/time stop/soul siphon

Strategy:
Light them up with dots and either time stop on them or on yourself then cloak, then swallow soul or concealed weapons, light attack impale until dead, soul harvest tanky healing types if needed. Escape with cloak and Rat, OP bugged escapes.

Maulkin

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

Maulkin

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

fred4

I was wrong to dismiss Refreshing Path. Just looked at the tooltip, which is decent, and the Expedition persists for 4 seconds. That's not bad. Still wouldn't suit my build, but not bad.

GhostofDatthaw

I always liked path and phantismal on dark cloak builds because the mit from aoe and the extra hot from path. The mobility aspect of it for me is more situational. I can sit there snared and just keep the aoe mit fighting one or two, the heals and cloak would keep me up. I only start keeping the snare removal up when I kite but if I have good positioning it's just like 1-2 spams while sprinting with my 17k Stam then I image into the shadows. Total reset. That style has again been nerfed though.

With shadowy I'm the whole point is to avoid as much direct damage as possible. Last build I was running in cyro and ic is balorg, btb, spinners, brp resto. I have fought one on one fights with some pretty top notch "meta" players on pcna and held my ground. With shadow and dueling it's all about mobility. And I don't mean like shade around a tree, I mean like being able to keep up Stam for roll Dodge, cloak abuse on single target and stuns, perma 6s cc on cooldown. The key for magnb is pure offense and just don't get hit. That's just how it is now in my experience because if you're not pure offense you can't kills the meta.

GhostofDatthaw

In terms of cyrodill, now that shade is fixed, rocks and elevation is magnb strength

Oh yeah btw last time I was playing, even with shade cost inc and ***, best way to think about it in more even solo fights is shade into a resto heavy if you need. I will pull like a 8m shade off to get me out of melee agro, clench the sucker, then resto heavy. Off the bat I have good mana back and 2 extra procs on mercy for the next combo. Works a little different vs ranged but vs ranged I can trade very easily with cloak dodges and burst timing

Koensol

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

HowlKimchi

Refreshing path is indeed good! Unfortunately I don't have any room for the skill in my back bar, since I'm not really built to stand my ground. RAT, cloak, siphoning strikes, healing ward, and shade are more essential than refreshing path. I still want to make a dot based tanky magblade build though and I think refreshing path would be essential on that.

Maulkin

HaruKamui wrote: »

Refreshing path is indeed good! Unfortunately I don't have any room for the skill in my back bar, since I'm not really built to stand my ground. RAT, cloak, siphoning strikes, healing ward, and shade are more essential than refreshing path. I still want to make a dot based tanky magblade build though and I think refreshing path would be essential on that.

That's pretty much what I play. Debilitate, Entropy, Lotus Fan, Poisons, Zaan... you get a lot of DoT dmg ticking. And you still have some burst with a Soul Harvest-> Fear->Merciless combo. Then Path, Regeneration, Swallow Soul and Merciless will provide decent heals while you grind your opponent down.

But obviously gotta be careful about being staying in fights too long and getting outnumbered. It's a build with a lot of constant pressure that can slug it out and win fights, but it doesn't have the crazy burst dmg that can take an opponent from 100->0 in 2-3 secs allowing you to pick off opponents quickly. You will fail to kill most tanky or elusive opponents that simply chose to run around LOS obstacles instead of fighting. And you'll have to make your peace with that instead of over-extending.

Iskiab

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

zammo

Iskiab wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

The problem of using path + phantasmal escape for mobility is the cost - in every regard. The actual resource cost (7k+ for both combined compard to less than 3k for rat), the "gcd cost" which is especially crucial under heavy pressure - when the mobility is needed the most, and the bar space, because path is one of the worst heal skills for solo play, so it doesn't really work as replacement for other - better - heal skills.
And that's not even taking into consideration that casting path breaks cloak and gives the enemies a big red glowing sign where there running nb just went - gl escaping from a hungry zerg with this.

I mean how you play, where you play and how you build is obviously very important in skill selection... it goes without saying.

You mentioned solo play and zergs (ergo Cyro). In that context I'd probably pick RAT too. I play BGs 99% of the time and wear 5-heavy Pariah. I don't really play the cloaky style, which isn't really suited anyway in very AoE heavy fights in confined spaces. So Phantasmal Escape is a must and Refreshing is both good ground heals and mobility for the whole group. I would argue they are superior to RAT for Cyro group play too.

I don't have a problem sustaining them in no-CP with 5 heavy and no sustain set, although I am a Breton. The cost isn't a consideration for me.

In Cyro larger groups I still use refreshing, but in BGs I don’t think it’s worth it.

While you ‘can’ sustain Refreshing Path check your magicka next time you’re in a BG. Say you have just won an engagement and are on the move and using refreshing path, it costs about 1k magicka a second to maintain major expedition, which means you’ll need 2k recovery to maintain it.

What I don’t like isn’t that I can’t afford it, it’s that if I use it to get around I’ve spent all the magicka I could have recovered and go into the next engagement down resources. Keep track of your magicka pool next BG and you’ll see what I mean. If you use the BRP resto or shields it ends up being a seminal loss of resources, the same cost as two harness magickas or healing wards.

I disagree and I'm acutely aware of my magicka, as any magblade is in BGs. I have a 1.5k base (without pots) mag regen in heavy, in no-CP. And Path costs 3.2k. So even if I had to keep up maj exp, the magicka loss is ~200 every 4 secs. Which is quite frankly nothing.

But I don't need to maintain maj exp for more than 6-8" anyway. The speed is merely a re-positioning tool. It's the ground heal that I do keep up in static fights because along with Regeneration, I can offer a lot of of support for the team while doing dmg.

Magicka/health/stamina ticks every 2 seconds, not every second. So with 1500 mag regen you’re getting 750 magicka a second.

Read his post again. He only needs to cast it every 4 seconds. 2x 1500 = 3000. His path costs 3.200 so he only loses 200 magicka. Like really I don't get why you think it is hard to sustain. 3.2k is really not much and on light armor its even better.

Also what you all forget is that refreshing path + phantasmal escape brings more than just mobility and heals. It also brings group utility, major evasion AND shadow passives which you need to get from another skill if you dont use path, which will end up costing you more magicka.

You don’t get 4 seconds of major expedition from refreshing path, you get just under 4 seconds. If you want to maintain major expedition you need to cast it every 3 seconds.

The example I was using was every 3 seconds, so 1k a second to maintain the expedition. Either way the point I was making is right, to maintain expedition and use refreshing to get around you’re sacrificing all your recovery and going into your next engagement lower magicka.

The healing has been improved, but the cost has been at the expense of using the ability for getting around with major expedition.

You maintain ~3.9s of major expedition after leaving the path. Nobody is making you jump straight off the thing. you can activate it, and run the length of the path, then still have 3.9s of major expedition when you leave it at the end. Oh, and then seeing as the path has a 12 second duration, you can even go back to it, and get major expedition refreshed again for no extra cost. It's easily one of the best sources of major expedition there is.

My point is if you're using it as an escape tool, you can cast it, run in a straight line down the thing (at least a couple of seconds even when sprinting), and then even after you leave the path you've still got that full 3.9s to run as far as you can. You're talking at least 6 seconds sprinting with major expedition, have you seen how far that will take you?

But then that's not even the beauty of the skill. Fight on the path. that 3.9s when you step off the path allows you to literally run circles around your opponent while refreshing the buff every time you step back onto the path, for the full 12 second duration.

And it's healing has now been buffed to semi respectable levels.

Even before this patch I never understood the amount of hate this skill gets.

ScruffyWhiskers

I've been goofing around with ref path and it's not bad. I go mist for a little distance, block cancel, hit path then bar swap to cloak. The fun is the psychological effect of the path. You can go straight or veer off quickly. Opponents sometimes think it is a ground AoE so they hesitate to enter.

Of course it's not fool proof. I've been swatted a bunch of times by Temps jabbing and sweeping, Stam Sorcs hurricaning, and streaking mag sorcs, all with detect pots. It does seem to be a decent alternative to investing heavily into swift and steed.

It also gives me some way to contribute when chasing a ball group around a keep besides AP for getting run over when it reverses.