Pvp Nightcapping idea

merevie

Everyone knows the night capping issue pvp has had for a long time.
What if instead of a 3 bar population limit, it dropped to a 2 bar limit for the four hours that are worst affected?

Urzigurumash

Have you seen the day capping though? It's even worse. What can we do about that?

Tommy_The_Gun

I have posted some ideas somewhere else on forums, (I will re-post them here) on how to make night / morning capping less annoying. The point here is: You are deciding about the victory in a PvP Campaign, by doing PvE stuff (PvDooring, fighting against keep doors and NPCs only, with no real players to defend them). This means that you can PvDoor entire map and enemy scroll and accumulate ridiculously high amount of Potential Points, not by PvP activity, but PvE activity.

Basic idea seems simple:
- Make changes in how Potential Points are calculated to reward more points for PvP and less for PvE.

How ? :
- By making Potential Points to take into account population difference. The higher the difference, the less points certain faction would get.
- This would require changing population "scale" from 3 bars + locked to something like 5 - 9 bars + locked.
- If faction A will capture Faction B objective, the game will "look" at population and compare them. If Faction A is locked and Faction B is 1 bar, then Faction A would get SIGNIFICANTLY less points.
- Depending on the population difference, the modifiers can be: 0x, 2x, 3x, 5x, 10x less points.
- This means that in a most drastic scenario, night / morning capping "locked" faction would get 10x less potential points. (Right now you get 1 point per captured enemy objective and 10 points for enemy Elder Scroll. With this change, in most drastic scenario, in order to get 1 point you would have to capture 10 objectives or 1 Elder Scroll).
- If enemy objective was captured when populations were different, the potential points "penalty" for capturing would stay the same, even if enemy population would grow. The only way to remove potential points "penalty" for certain objective would be to lose it & re-take it when populations are more or less equal.
- This would not affect your native objectives (keeps, towns, resources, outposts & Scrolls). You could capture them / retake and for those you would get normal points, regardless of population difference.
- This would not affect Alliance Points gained from capturing objectives (they would stay unchanged).

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I have an idea for night-capping.

Accept that roughly half the planet (geographically) has a different day/night cycle to you, and therefore what you call "night capping" some people call "normal day time".

Accept that during your day, you are the <insert emotional expletive> night-capper for the people you accuse of night-capping.

Accept that it makes perfect strategic and tactical sense to assault you enemy's bases when he is at his weakest.

Finally, accept that if you can't accept the three points above its time to quit PvP.


All The Best

JumpmanLane

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

I have an idea for night-capping.

Accept that roughly half the planet (geographically) has a different day/night cycle to you, and therefore what you call "night capping" some people call "normal day time".

Accept that during your day, you are the <insert emotional expletive> night-capper for the people you accuse of night-capping.

Accept that it makes perfect strategic and tactical sense to assault you enemy's bases when he is at his weakest.

Finally, accept that if you can't accept the three points above its time to quit PvP.


All The Best

People playing when they have time to play is one thing. People who set their alarm clocks to wake back up and play, when the people who kill them are off are NIGHTCAPPERS.

Deny it all you want. Defend it all you can; but, nightcapping happens. Oddly enough, none of the people doing it come to the forums and defend it.

People nightcap to go emp, similar to how people go emp on empty campaigns. People nightcap to actually KILL people. Even the most glorified ball Zergs ultimately end up dead in a field in primetime. Dead to a bunch of pugs no less. That’s why there’s these frenzied 24v1’s in the middle of the night lol.

technohic

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

I have an idea for night-capping.

Accept that roughly half the planet (geographically) has a different day/night cycle to you, and therefore what you call "night capping" some people call "normal day time".

Accept that during your day, you are the <insert emotional expletive> night-capper for the people you accuse of night-capping.

Accept that it makes perfect strategic and tactical sense to assault you enemy's bases when he is at his weakest.

Finally, accept that if you can't accept the three points above its time to quit PvP.


All The Best

That's why something like the post above yours works for everyone. Everyone still plays how they want, but score is correlated to chalenge.

Think of it more like a population imbalance adjustment similar to what we have in AP earnings. would probably help the more sparse populated campaigns maintain a healthy score as well.

And for those of you who are just awful and secretly do really want an advantage; you still will start off with scrolls and emp when population becomes balanced. I know they're out there. Whether its oceanic or people setting their alarms, People just want to hide behind the excuse to make themselves feel like they are PVPers. It's ok you little PVEers. We take a group of PvEers through a low pop campaign once a week as well. They just dont act like PVPers with some excuse.

Heelie

If you care that much about winning the campaign just play at night like the night cappers do, or just accept that people have different sleep schedules to you for various reasons, mostly because of their time zone.

redlink1979

Night capping? It's day time somewhere else...
You still aren't aware that the game is played globally. Europe and USA aren't the whole world, you know?

technohic

^ Explains when they play not how all are mostly in 1 faction. That reason is likely cause not really PVPers

Aurielle

This again?

tl;dr from the other million threads on this topic: (1) Your time zone is not the only time zone that matters; (2) population ebb and flow is normal during a 24 hr period for all three alliances; (3) some alliances have more consistently active players than others; this is the result of happenstance, not “stacking” or “night-capping.”

SoLooney

People are still complaining about night capping in pvp geez

vamp_emily

Dynamic PvP Population is a solution to many problems.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

JumpmanLane wrote: »

People playing when they have time to play is one thing. People who set their alarm clocks to wake back up and play, when the people who kill them are off are NIGHTCAPPERS.

No.

All they are doing is adjusting their offence to maximise the impact of your defensive weaknesses.

Every faction has equal access to the server, 24/7.

Recognising a weakness in an opponent and adjusting your strategy to exploit that weakness is not a bad thing - it is how every successful military campaign EVER has been won.

So side A has players setting alarm clocks to capture stuff when side B is under represented.
So what?

Seems like the smart move to me - as long as it within the rules of the game as defined by ZoS, and it is.

Asking for the rules to be changed to cover a weakness in your side sounds... ...well entitled to me.



All The Best

master_vanargand

Are the few people who do Night Capping the key to victory?
Stupid! Cyrodiil is very trash game.
So we need to change the score rules of Cyrodiil.

Make sure that you get low scores to all aliances if there are population differences between the alliances.
Cyrodiil should be able to get normal scores to all alliances when all alliances are full.

BNOC

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I have posted some ideas somewhere else on forums, (I will re-post them here) on how to make night / morning capping less annoying. The point here is: You are deciding about the victory in a PvP Campaign, by doing PvE stuff (PvDooring, fighting against keep doors and NPCs only, with no real players to defend them). This means that you can PvDoor entire map and enemy scroll and accumulate ridiculously high amount of Potential Points, not by PvP activity, but PvE activity.

Basic idea seems simple:
- Make changes in how Potential Points are calculated to reward more points for PvP and less for PvE.

How ? :
- By making Potential Points to take into account population difference. The higher the difference, the less points certain faction would get.
- This would require changing population "scale" from 3 bars + locked to something like 5 - 9 bars + locked.
- If faction A will capture Faction B objective, the game will "look" at population and compare them. If Faction A is locked and Faction B is 1 bar, then Faction A would get SIGNIFICANTLY less points.
- Depending on the population difference, the modifiers can be: 0x, 2x, 3x, 5x, 10x less points.
- This means that in a most drastic scenario, night / morning capping "locked" faction would get 10x less potential points. (Right now you get 1 point per captured enemy objective and 10 points for enemy Elder Scroll. With this change, in most drastic scenario, in order to get 1 point you would have to capture 10 objectives or 1 Elder Scroll).
- If enemy objective was captured when populations were different, the potential points "penalty" for capturing would stay the same, even if enemy population would grow. The only way to remove potential points "penalty" for certain objective would be to lose it & re-take it when populations are more or less equal.
- This would not affect your native objectives (keeps, towns, resources, outposts & Scrolls). You could capture them / retake and for those you would get normal points, regardless of population difference.
- This would not affect Alliance Points gained from capturing objectives (they would stay unchanged).

-
Your way around it with point multipliers sounds alright, but there's no way they'll do that.

The only reason Cyrodil is populated is because it's mainly PvO right? I expect the majority of those players wouldn't go in there if they actually had to hold their own to succeed, if they couldn't make gains based on advantages in numbers or weren't going to get placement rewards as easily.

Also the players that are in silly time zones compared to the server they play on will just moan that it's not fair when you take leaderboard rankings into account if you're stripping them of points because they're the only guys on the server and they're sitting in Cyro taking empty keeps.

Nice idea though

Gandrhulf_Harbard

technohic wrote: »

And for those of you who are just awful and secretly do really want an advantage;

You mean the people asking for night-capping to be stopped?

They are the ones asking for a mandated programmed advantage to be handed to them by ZoS.


All The Best

VaranisArano

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

I have an idea for night-capping.

Accept that roughly half the planet (geographically) has a different day/night cycle to you, and therefore what you call "night capping" some people call "normal day time".

Accept that during your day, you are the <insert emotional expletive> night-capper for the people you accuse of night-capping.

Accept that it makes perfect strategic and tactical sense to assault you enemy's bases when he is at his weakest.

Finally, accept that if you can't accept the three points above its time to quit PvP.


All The Best

People playing when they have time to play is one thing. People who set their alarm clocks to wake back up and play, when the people who kill them are off are NIGHTCAPPERS.

Deny it all you want. Defend it all you can; but, nightcapping happens. Oddly enough, none of the people doing it come to the forums and defend it.

People nightcap to go emp, similar to how people go emp on empty campaigns. People nightcap to actually KILL people. Even the most glorified ball Zergs ultimately end up dead in a field in primetime. Dead to a bunch of pugs no less. That’s why there’s these frenzied 24v1’s in the middle of the night lol.

Aside from the no-life marathon that is Emperorship (by design), who the heck wakes themself up from a perfectly good night sleep to play PVP?

Seriously?

The vast majority of so called nightcappers are people living in different timezones or play at night due to work schedules. And you know it.

I don't think I'm unusual when I say that I like winning the campaign, but I'm not going to set my alarm clock to wake me up at 2 in the morning in order to do so...

SpacemanSpiff1

dont like "night capping"? make some groups and play at "night" to balance out the population.

BNOC

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

People playing when they have time to play is one thing. People who set their alarm clocks to wake back up and play, when the people who kill them are off are NIGHTCAPPERS.

Recognising a weakness in an opponent and adjusting your strategy to exploit that weakness is not a bad thing - it is how every successful military campaign EVER has been won.

Sounds like recognition of personal weaknesses, not the other way around.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't think I'm unusual when I say that I like winning the campaign, but I'm not going to set my alarm clock to wake me up at 2 in the morning in order to do so...

You might not but I think you'd be amazed by the amount that do, there's PvErs that set alarms on Xbox Eu to go farm IC at 4am when it's safe, let alone the ones trying to push emp etc.

It's a regular event for those people and you spot them a mile off because they're weak.

I can't really say too much about nightcapping being all timezone based as we don't have massive variation in the EU, only the all nighters / unemployed / alarm setters.

Samadhi

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

I have an idea for night-capping.

Accept that roughly half the planet (geographically) has a different day/night cycle to you, and therefore what you call "night capping" some people call "normal day time".

Accept that during your day, you are the <insert emotional expletive> night-capper for the people you accuse of night-capping.

Accept that it makes perfect strategic and tactical sense to assault you enemy's bases when he is at his weakest.

Finally, accept that if you can't accept the three points above its time to quit PvP.


All The Best

It should be a rite of passage for all college-age adults to spend 4-8 years working night shifts
there are so many things that society takes for granted as being acceptable during the day but absurd during the night
remember trying to sleep in a *** appartment while the neighbours next door blared their music and the lady downstairs hammered on the wall and screamed trying to get them to turn it down

meanwhile, on my days off since my schedule was to be up all night, it was a quick lesson to me that even things as simple as cleaning or doing the dishes may result in my neighbours calling the cops on me due to after hours noise laws

there is sort of an absurd perception that the human animal must be either diurnal or mad, like a rabid bat crawling the streets during daylight hours

think that if people could more readily accept the normality of individuals awake at "crazy hours" within our own immediate societies,
it would be easier to accept the functionality of individuals who actually experience daytime hours while our own circadian rhythm is insisting the whole world need to stop and let us rest

frostz417

1. Quit caring about campaign score. It’s dumb and an absurdly broken system which fails.
2. Remove faction locks because they’ve contributed to night capping further

Gandrhulf_Harbard

BNOC wrote: »

It's a regular event for those people and you spot them a mile off because they're weak.

So weak in fact PvP'ers are begging ZoS to ban them.

That makes no sense.

All The Best

TequilaFire

Not to mention if you see they are weak you must be on at night as well so go kill them!

Donny_Vito

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I have posted some ideas somewhere else on forums, (I will re-post them here) on how to make night / morning capping less annoying. The point here is: You are deciding about the victory in a PvP Campaign, by doing PvE stuff (PvDooring, fighting against keep doors and NPCs only, with no real players to defend them). This means that you can PvDoor entire map and enemy scroll and accumulate ridiculously high amount of Potential Points, not by PvP activity, but PvE activity.

Basic idea seems simple:
- Make changes in how Potential Points are calculated to reward more points for PvP and less for PvE.

How ? :
- By making Potential Points to take into account population difference. The higher the difference, the less points certain faction would get.
- This would require changing population "scale" from 3 bars + locked to something like 5 - 9 bars + locked.
- If faction A will capture Faction B objective, the game will "look" at population and compare them. If Faction A is locked and Faction B is 1 bar, then Faction A would get SIGNIFICANTLY less points.
- Depending on the population difference, the modifiers can be: 0x, 2x, 3x, 5x, 10x less points.
- This means that in a most drastic scenario, night / morning capping "locked" faction would get 10x less potential points. (Right now you get 1 point per captured enemy objective and 10 points for enemy Elder Scroll. With this change, in most drastic scenario, in order to get 1 point you would have to capture 10 objectives or 1 Elder Scroll).
- If enemy objective was captured when populations were different, the potential points "penalty" for capturing would stay the same, even if enemy population would grow. The only way to remove potential points "penalty" for certain objective would be to lose it & re-take it when populations are more or less equal.
- This would not affect your native objectives (keeps, towns, resources, outposts & Scrolls). You could capture them / retake and for those you would get normal points, regardless of population difference.
- This would not affect Alliance Points gained from capturing objectives (they would stay unchanged).

I think the only problem with the AP modifiers is that people will abuse it. PvP'ers (including myself) are notorious for exploiting anything that's beneficial to their advantage. This would be no different.

BNOC

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

It's a regular event for those people and you spot them a mile off because they're weak.

So weak in fact PvP'ers are begging ZoS to ban them.

That makes no sense.

All The Best

Who said ban? Nobody in here did.

If you could get into Dom/Crazy King/CTF in BG's but guarantee you'd be the only person in the game, would you go do it?

therift

The real problem is After-School-Capping.

Hordes of EP steamrolling the map before working adults get home from work. This must stop! I suggest EP players must post images of completed homework/professors' assignments as a condition to enter Cyrodiil!

Unfair! Booo! ZoS do something about this broken mechanic! Cyrodiil completely unplayable! Booo!



*rolls eyes*

Gandrhulf_Harbard

BNOC wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

It's a regular event for those people and you spot them a mile off because they're weak.

So weak in fact PvP'ers are begging ZoS to ban them.

That makes no sense.

All The Best

Who said ban? Nobody in here did.

If you could get into Dom/Crazy King/CTF in BG's but guarantee you'd be the only person in the game, would you go do it?

It's PvP.

When you log in to play it, you can only ever face the opponent in front of you.

If he didn't turn up in full strength, lucky days, take that win.

If he did turn up in full strength, you got a fight on your hands.

Either way, no whining going to change it.

---

All these people complaining about night capping; do they sit back and not fight if they out number their opponents?

Of course they don't.

But soon as they are out numbered it's "w'ah, w'ah, ZoS, stop night-capping nao".

That's hypocrisy.

Worse, it's entitled hypocrisy.


All The Best

TequilaFire

Night capping and QQ about it has existed in every world wide MMO like Guild Wars for example.
Just part of the genre get over it and take the keeps back.
Bank the ap.

Actually if players and guilds in an alliance would actually communicate they as defenders could also set their alarm clocks to stop the capping. Or even recruit guilds and players in other time zones to help.

VaranisArano

BNOC wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

People playing when they have time to play is one thing. People who set their alarm clocks to wake back up and play, when the people who kill them are off are NIGHTCAPPERS.

Recognising a weakness in an opponent and adjusting your strategy to exploit that weakness is not a bad thing - it is how every successful military campaign EVER has been won.

Sounds like recognition of personal weaknesses, not the other way around.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't think I'm unusual when I say that I like winning the campaign, but I'm not going to set my alarm clock to wake me up at 2 in the morning in order to do so...

You might not but I think you'd be amazed by the amount that do, there's PvErs that set alarms on Xbox Eu to go farm IC at 4am when it's safe, let alone the ones trying to push emp etc.

It's a regular event for those people and you spot them a mile off because they're weak.

I can't really say too much about nightcapping being all timezone based as we don't have massive variation in the EU, only the all nighters / unemployed / alarm setters.

See, this is why its important to specify Server/Platform.

I'm on PC/NA where we have a HUGE timezone difference due to ZOS's lack of an Oceanic server. On PC/NA, and probably any of the NA servers, by far the vast majority of so-called night-cappers are people playing during their own timezones' after-work/evening hours.

I don't know which server/Platform the person I responded to is on. If EU, perhaps that makes more sense. If NA, I have a hard time believing that alarm clock setters make up more than a tiny fraction.

(I'm ignoring Emperorship runs because that is literally designed to reward no-lifing play and gaining AP constantly even/especially when no one is on to compete. There's no way around that if you want Emperor.)

Aurielle

VaranisArano wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

I have an idea for night-capping.

Accept that roughly half the planet (geographically) has a different day/night cycle to you, and therefore what you call "night capping" some people call "normal day time".

Accept that during your day, you are the <insert emotional expletive> night-capper for the people you accuse of night-capping.

Accept that it makes perfect strategic and tactical sense to assault you enemy's bases when he is at his weakest.

Finally, accept that if you can't accept the three points above its time to quit PvP.


All The Best

People playing when they have time to play is one thing. People who set their alarm clocks to wake back up and play, when the people who kill them are off are NIGHTCAPPERS.

Deny it all you want. Defend it all you can; but, nightcapping happens. Oddly enough, none of the people doing it come to the forums and defend it.

People nightcap to go emp, similar to how people go emp on empty campaigns. People nightcap to actually KILL people. Even the most glorified ball Zergs ultimately end up dead in a field in primetime. Dead to a bunch of pugs no less. That’s why there’s these frenzied 24v1’s in the middle of the night lol.

Aside from the no-life marathon that is Emperorship (by design), who the heck wakes themself up from a perfectly good night sleep to play PVP?

Seriously?

The vast majority of so called nightcappers are people living in different timezones or play at night due to work schedules. And you know it.

I don't think I'm unusual when I say that I like winning the campaign, but I'm not going to set my alarm clock to wake me up at 2 in the morning in order to do so...

Jumpman’s AD friend told him that some guilds set alarms to nightcap, so it must be true.

Kagukan

Its 5 o clock somewhere. What some consider off hours is not off hours to others. No one should be penalized for the time of day they play.