Werewolf Kit TOO STRONG

hesobad

So a well known youtuber recently released a video showing how he reached 2.4 mil damage in a BG. He racked somewhere around 30 or more kills in the video exploiting the strengths of werewolf in a no CP environment. Is this intended ZOS? In my opinion, this something that all players should be using in BGs, because it is far too effective for people not to be using. Will you look into this issue and make adjustments? This person obviously knows how to exploit game mechanics, what if everyone used that build and pulled damage like that? Werewolf needs to be addressed! It's far too strong in the right hands

Lets look at the WW kit!

Pact Leader makes it so that it is more difficult for classes to target the player werewolf, ESO has targeting issues to begin with. This is also why you see Magic Sorcs with Engine guardian, they can use the npc as a shield due to the targeting issue.

Roar with bloodlust to terrify up to 3 nearby enemies, fearing them for 3.3 seconds and setting them Off Balance for 5 seconds.
You and your allies gain Major Brutality, increasing your Weapon Damage by 20% for [X] seconds..
Increases Weapon Damage of nearby allies.
^ off balance is a damage increase and not needed to be added to a fear which is long and good enough! Plus the Major Brutality. This skill does too much

Crush enemy with a deafening howl, dealing 8291 Physical Damage.
Deals 30% more damage to enemies that are feared.
Deals more damage to enemies that are feared.
^Far too much synergy with the fear + off balance and a base damage that is too high

Werewolf Claws of Anguish apply Major Defile which has been an issue for a very long time in PvP. Why do WW get access to it???

Can't say this is glass cannon either:
Hircine Fortitude Invoke the Huntsman's blessing, healing you for 57% of your Max Health.
Increases the healing done.
How does a huge self heal make sense on a Werewolf??????????????????????????????????????????

Savage Strength passive scales ridiculously well. This kit is just too effective in no CP. Guys say what you want, I'm 100% right here and you can not convince me otherwise. Also sure you could say that he only is doing this because he is in a pre made with a pocket healer. Okay that is true, however he can take his pre made and fight against teams that are not pre made and absolutely wreck them. The BG system is flawed. The incoming speed nerfs will not nerf werewolf, it will indirectly buff werewolf because other classes will not be able to kite werewolfs.


They can bring WW in line by taking away the Major Defile, never should have been there to begin with. Take away the off balance from the fear. Reduce the damage of Howl of Agony

biggda76

op pls nerf

Qbiken

I don´t even know where to begin........

Here´s the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X17oxHu6G4

1. He´s using Molag Kena + Bloodmoon + Ravager if you´re interested in his setup.

2. His setup is build purely for damage and can´t survive on its own. Without a pocket healer + guard, Fengrush is dead in a matter of milliseconds in that setup (werewolf should be played in group with support so not implying that there´s anything wrong with what he´s doing). That werewolf is effective only because he´s got a templar healing and guarding him. The only issue you want to address in this video is how strong and broken guard is.

3. No exploits going on in this video, it just shows how well werewolf synergise with group play and additional support.

hesobad

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t even know where to begin........

Here´s the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X17oxHu6G4

1. He´s using Molag Kena + Bloodmoon + Ravager if you´re interested in his setup.

2. His setup is build purely for damage and can´t survive on its own. Without a pocket healer + guard, Fengrush is dead in a matter of milliseconds in that setup (werewolf should be played in group with support so not implying that there´s anything wrong with what he´s doing). That werewolf is effective only because he´s got a templar healing and guarding him. The only issue you want to address in this video is how strong and broken guard is.

3. No exploits going on in this video, it just shows how well werewolf synergise with group play and additional support.

Guard is a separate issue, but yes that is a huge problem. Yes he is squishy without a pocket healer, but any semi optimal group will have a support. There are many issues with werewolf, one is that you can not kite them as a magic class. In no CP magic classes can not run very high stamina. Werewolf can just spam fears, bleed you and light attack you do death. It is WAY too effective. there are other "glass cannon" builds than can not perform this well. The weapon damage is too high, leap is way too good, the fear and bleed just push it way over the top.

brandonv516

Yep pocket healer running Transmutation, Earthgore, Shards, Purge, Guard.

Nothing overpowered, nothing surprising. Still comes down to having a good group and/or terrible competition.

I could show the video of me getting 2.4m heals in BGs but it would probably bore you.

del9

He had a guard support and knows how to play the build well. Those kind of numbers can be achieved on many different non-WW builds.

Nothing OP here, move along devs.

montiferus

I think its funny the OP username is hesobad.

coincidence?

Koolio

hesobad wrote: »

So a well known youtuber recently released a video showing how he reached 2.4 mil damage in a BG. He racked somewhere around 30 or more kills in the video exploiting the strengths of werewolf in a no CP environment. Is this intended ZOS? In my opinion, this something that all players should be using in BGs, because it is far too effective for people not to be using. Will you look into this issue and make adjustments? This person obviously knows how to exploit game mechanics, what if everyone used that build and pulled damage like that? Werewolf needs to be addressed! It's far too strong in the right hands

Lol. In gold heavy armor in Cp in WW. with 3200 Inpen got hit with a 15.5k snipe.


That’s from 42 meters away from stealth with no warning.


If his group was all the same WW running the same build the results would be way different.

leepalmer95

How to counter ww...

snare/ root them.

Thogard

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t even know where to begin........

Here´s the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X17oxHu6G4

1. He´s using Molag Kena + Bloodmoon + Ravager if you´re interested in his setup.

2. His setup is build purely for damage and can´t survive on its own. Without a pocket healer + guard, Fengrush is dead in a matter of milliseconds in that setup (werewolf should be played in group with support so not implying that there´s anything wrong with what he´s doing). That werewolf is effective only because he´s got a templar healing and guarding him. The only issue you want to address in this video is how strong and broken guard is.

3. No exploits going on in this video, it just shows how well werewolf synergise with group play and additional support.

Well said.

Pocket healers are OP.

Qbiken

Edit because this thread is pure bait....

Synapsis123

Someone fighting healers in a full damage build while being supported by healers got high damage...alert the presses. Why is that a surprise? If anything this says more about earthgore and guard being op and not werewolf. If he wasn't playing with 3 other support characters he would've died a ton of times.

Chrlynsch

Lol

hesobad wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t even know where to begin........

Here´s the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X17oxHu6G4

1. He´s using Molag Kena + Bloodmoon + Ravager if you´re interested in his setup.

2. His setup is build purely for damage and can´t survive on its own. Without a pocket healer + guard, Fengrush is dead in a matter of milliseconds in that setup (werewolf should be played in group with support so not implying that there´s anything wrong with what he´s doing). That werewolf is effective only because he´s got a templar healing and guarding him. The only issue you want to address in this video is how strong and broken guard is.

3. No exploits going on in this video, it just shows how well werewolf synergise with group play and additional support.

Guard is a separate issue, but yes that is a huge problem. Yes he is squishy without a pocket healer, but any semi optimal group will have a support. There are many issues with werewolf, one is that you can not kite them as a magic class. In no CP magic classes can not run very high stamina. Werewolf can just spam fears, bleed you and light attack you do death. It is WAY too effective. there are other "glass cannon" builds than can not perform this well. The weapon damage is too high, leap is way too good, the fear and bleed just push it way over the top.

I know it is hard to understand as all stam toons you come across shrug off snares without a studder but werewolves definitely can be countered and kited by magic toons, even more so with the upcoming speed nerfs for major expedition and expedition pots.

But as easy as it is for a werewolf to kill you, it is even easier for you to counter them. A werewolf has a base movement increase of 30%, which most classes have an ability that counters that 30% easily. On top of that any other snares applied to the wolf will stack, meaning that wolf becomes easier to deal with as their relentless Pursuit comes to a crawl. Teams like these just show how not to counter a wolf on a leash.

We dont see how much damage is being done by the other teammates (looks like 2 mag temps and 1 mag warden), or how much healing is being done. What 2.4 Million damage tells me is that he did enough damage to take down 120 players...

Chrlynsch

Anethum

its more about how unbalanced are premade (with heal-guard-bot on fengrush) vs randoms than ww.
Ww actually ugly designed. With support extremly bursty, without - permarooted/snared fat food for enemy.
I had matches with 2mln dmg on stamsorc and stamdk.
And u can have 2,4 mln dmg per match at stamwarden more easy.

Koolio

Thogard wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t even know where to begin........

Here´s the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X17oxHu6G4

1. He´s using Molag Kena + Bloodmoon + Ravager if you´re interested in his setup.

2. His setup is build purely for damage and can´t survive on its own. Without a pocket healer + guard, Fengrush is dead in a matter of milliseconds in that setup (werewolf should be played in group with support so not implying that there´s anything wrong with what he´s doing). That werewolf is effective only because he´s got a templar healing and guarding him. The only issue you want to address in this video is how strong and broken guard is.

3. No exploits going on in this video, it just shows how well werewolf synergise with group play and additional support.

Well said.

Pocket healers are OP.

What funny is I brought multiple times how WW viability in very small scale got hurt bad with the heal scaling off max health now. Everyone said just go grab a pocket healer. So we do and immediately people ask for nerfs lol

IlCanis_LupuslI

meanwhile we console wws still are very unpatiently waiting for our Savage Strength fix....
Seriously how much longer do we have to wait???

Koolio

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

meanwhile we console wws still are very unpatiently waiting for our Savage Strength fix....
Seriously how much longer do we have to wait???

I’ve tried to get an answer but @ZOS pretty much ignores me now

IlCanis_LupuslI

ditto ... at this point im pretty furious...

Zer0oo

He is on a absolute class canon no sustain build and can only do it because he has a pocket healer. With such a support you can run a way more offensive setup that allows you to pull such high damage.

ChunkyCat

The sky is falling! haaaaaalp!!

Rohamad_Ali

Fengrush OP

ChunkyCat

hesobad wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t even know where to begin........

Here´s the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X17oxHu6G4

1. He´s using Molag Kena + Bloodmoon + Ravager if you´re interested in his setup.

2. His setup is build purely for damage and can´t survive on its own. Without a pocket healer + guard, Fengrush is dead in a matter of milliseconds in that setup (werewolf should be played in group with support so not implying that there´s anything wrong with what he´s doing). That werewolf is effective only because he´s got a templar healing and guarding him. The only issue you want to address in this video is how strong and broken guard is.

3. No exploits going on in this video, it just shows how well werewolf synergise with group play and additional support.

Guard is a separate issue, but yes that is a huge problem. Yes he is squishy without a pocket healer, but any semi optimal group will have a support. There are many issues with werewolf, one is that you can not kite them as a magic class. In no CP magic classes can not run very high stamina. Werewolf can just spam fears, bleed you and light attack you do death. It is WAY too effective. there are other "glass cannon" builds than can not perform this well. The weapon damage is too high, leap is way too good, the fear and bleed just push it way over the top.

A “semi optimal group” cannot do what Mograine is doing in that video as the healer.

Give credit where credit is due. He’s one of the best Guard-Plars in pvp, and he’s definitely the MVP in the above video and most of the other videos where Fengrush is slaughtering people.

Thogard

ChunkyCat wrote: »

hesobad wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t even know where to begin........

Here´s the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X17oxHu6G4

1. He´s using Molag Kena + Bloodmoon + Ravager if you´re interested in his setup.

2. His setup is build purely for damage and can´t survive on its own. Without a pocket healer + guard, Fengrush is dead in a matter of milliseconds in that setup (werewolf should be played in group with support so not implying that there´s anything wrong with what he´s doing). That werewolf is effective only because he´s got a templar healing and guarding him. The only issue you want to address in this video is how strong and broken guard is.

3. No exploits going on in this video, it just shows how well werewolf synergise with group play and additional support.

Guard is a separate issue, but yes that is a huge problem. Yes he is squishy without a pocket healer, but any semi optimal group will have a support. There are many issues with werewolf, one is that you can not kite them as a magic class. In no CP magic classes can not run very high stamina. Werewolf can just spam fears, bleed you and light attack you do death. It is WAY too effective. there are other "glass cannon" builds than can not perform this well. The weapon damage is too high, leap is way too good, the fear and bleed just push it way over the top.

A “semi optimal group” cannot do what Mograine is doing in that video as the healer.

Give credit where credit is due. He’s one of the best Guard-Plars in pvp, and he’s definitely the MVP in the above video and most of the other videos where Fengrush is slaughtering people.

Fengrush is an extremely talented Stam DPS - one of the best in BGs atm. I don’t think I’d call the guard person the MVP. But both of those builds definitely need the other to survive.

DarkJester1

What I don't understand is how he keeps his WW form up throughout the entire match.

Like, I get that one, since he only died twice, so he could constantly stay in combat and devour, but I've seen him die 7 or more times and still be able to get back into the fight before it expired.

When I used WW, that was one of the major issues I had, was keeping WW form up since it could take so long to get back into the fight from the starting point, and with multiple deaths that can cause it to expire.

Also, what's so great about bloodmoon? Someone please explain, because on paper it doesn't seem like something that is going to trigger often in non-CP.

I am glad he's using werewolf though because I love werewolf and I love seeing it utilized in pvp like this.

Juhasow

So organised group play is an exploit now ?

Over 2M dmg was done because he was the only pure DD spec in his group so his allies were doing close to none dmg and since it looks like this match had somewhat decent matchmaker level and enemies were kinda sturdy plus there were healers in enemie teams and bleeds are very effective in situations like that. Look at the fact that because this "OP exploiting" match it still tooked almost full duration which is also factor that allowed to build up higher overall dmg. The real wreck would happen if he would have something around 900k dmg and match would end up in 7 minutes because that would mean he just nuked everyone there instantly. I dare to say that literally any fully DD specced setup would deal closee to 2M dmg in similar match with similar groups composition.

As for the build itself the general idea behind it was well known since Wolfhunter PTS but hey now it's OP because "well known youtuber recently released a video" lol.

hesobad

You guys are saying I'm wrong, go look at the werewolf kit! I have a stam sorc werewolf and I can't sit here and say that it is not OP.

There are targeting issues with ESO. Pact Leader makes it so that it is more difficult for classes to target the player werewolf.

Roar with bloodlust to terrify up to 3 nearby enemies, fearing them for 3.3 seconds and setting them Off Balance for 5 seconds.
You and your allies gain Major Brutality, increasing your Weapon Damage by 20% for [X] seconds..
Increases Weapon Damage of nearby allies.
^ off balance is a damage increase and not needed to be added to a fear which is long and good enough!

Crush enemy with a deafening howl, dealing 8291 Physical Damage.
Deals 30% more damage to enemies that are feared.
Deals more damage to enemies that are feared.

^Far too much synergy with the fear + off balance

Werewolf Claws of Anguish apply Major Defile which has been an issue for a very long time in PvP.

Savage Strength passive scales ridiculously well. This kit is just too effective in no CP. Guys say what you want, I'm 100% right here and you can not convince me otherwise. Also sure you could say that he only is doing this because he is in a pre made with a pocket healer. Okay that is true, however he can take his pre made and fight against teams that are not pre made and absolutely wreck them. The BG system is flawed. The incoming speed nerfs will not nerf werewolf, it will indirectly buff werewolf because other classes will not be able to kite werewolfs.


They can bring WW in line by taking away the Major Defile, never should have been there to begin with. Take away the off balance from the fear. Reduce the damage of Howl of Agony

CatchMeTrolling

Seems I was already beat to it . You can’t do any of that on a WW without someone spamming heals for you. Go in solo and see how you do.

Sharee

hesobad wrote: »

You guys are saying I'm wrong, go look at the werewolf kit! I have a stam sorc werewolf and I can't sit here and say that it is not OP.

There are barely any werewolves to be seen in cyrodiil at all. If what you say was true, you wouldn't be able to take a leak from a keep wall without hitting at least one.

Qbiken

hesobad wrote: »

You guys are saying I'm wrong, go look at the werewolf kit! I have a stam sorc werewolf and I can't sit here and say that it is not OP.

There are targeting issues with ESO. Pact Leader makes it so that it is more difficult for classes to target the player werewolf.

Roar with bloodlust to terrify up to 3 nearby enemies, fearing them for 3.3 seconds and setting them Off Balance for 5 seconds.
You and your allies gain Major Brutality, increasing your Weapon Damage by 20% for [X] seconds..
Increases Weapon Damage of nearby allies.
^ off balance is a damage increase and not needed to be added to a fear which is long and good enough!

Crush enemy with a deafening howl, dealing 8291 Physical Damage.
Deals 30% more damage to enemies that are feared.
Deals more damage to enemies that are feared.

^Far too much synergy with the fear + off balance

Werewolf Claws of Anguish apply Major Defile which has been an issue for a very long time in PvP.

Savage Strength passive scales ridiculously well. This kit is just too effective in no CP. Guys say what you want, I'm 100% right here and you can not convince me otherwise. Also sure you could say that he only is doing this because he is in a pre made with a pocket healer. Okay that is true, however he can take his pre made and fight against teams that are not pre made and absolutely wreck them. The BG system is flawed. The incoming speed nerfs will not nerf werewolf, it will indirectly buff werewolf because other classes will not be able to kite werewolfs.


They can bring WW in line by taking away the Major Defile, never should have been there to begin with. Take away the off balance from the fear. Reduce the damage of Howl of Agony

Sounds like a L2P issue if you ask me.

jcm2606

WW is easy to counter. Pump them full of dots, the more poison the better. CC. Dawnbreaker. Most of the time they drop dead, while the good ones absolutely struggle to heal past all the pressure, allowing you to close the kill.

WW is strong, but it isn't broken. If Feng didn't have that pocket healer, he'd drop dead the moment he'd enter combat.