Premade groups are ruining battlegrounds...

VaranisArano

Joy_Division wrote: »

I wonder how many people think 4 good players are "premades".

As much as people like to think ESO caters to "noobs," the combat is not forgiving at all. The better and more experienced player almost always wins.

4 good players placed together randomly can crush the other teams, but they are unlikely to stay in that group if they continue playing BGs. Many of the complaints I see come from running into the same group of players (so, in a pre-made) over and over again due to the smaller population of battlegrounds. In that situation, it starts to feel like getting farmed at a Cyrodiil resources, but where the only option to walk away is to stop playing BGs for awhile.

Getting crushed once or twice by the random selection of good players on a team happens sometimes, and no doubt some players mistake that for a pre-made group. More problematic, however, is facing the same group of players over and over again where you can make a pretty good assumption that's a pre-made group where there's very little chance for the new or less experienced player to fight back effectively. As you say, the combat is not forgiving. Without the option to avoid that pre-made group they've been failing to beat, the only options are get good or quit playing.

Which is to say, if this were just a problem with players mistaking random selection of good players to be on a team together, we wouldn't expect to see people being beaten by the same group of teammates over and over again, which is a significant problem for Battlegrounds. Even in Cyrodiil, I'll fight the group that's farming PUGs at a resource once or twice, but if I see no chance at victory, I'm not going to through myself at them the 3rd or 4th time without reinforcements. That's be silly because I know the result and I don't enjoy being farmed over and over again. Its not any different for me in BGs. If I'm meeting the same group over and over and I can't beat them, I'm going to take a break (and probably research/practice counters, because "get good" doesn't happen instantly).

TelvanniWizard

Yes

oMrRust wrote: »

This should be simple for them to do.

2 queues.

1 solo only queue

and then

1 groups only queue.

I´m all in for this idea.

Muttsmutt

No

battlegrounds are ruining battlegrounds

matchmaking isn't that hard unless you're ZOS, let's not forget how it took them half a year to get the ready check working lmao, matchmaking would literally set everything on fire

Biro123

Yes

The sole reason I don't do bg's.

I don't buy the idea that there isn't the population for separate queues. Imho, if there were separate queues, there would be more BG players. A lot more.

In my experience of bg's in other MMOs, premades were always the minority.

Anotherone773

Yes

Biro123 wrote: »

The sole reason I don't do bg's.

I don't buy the idea that there isn't the population for separate queues. Imho, if there were separate queues, there would be more BG players. A lot more.

In my experience of bg's in other MMOs, premades were always the minority.

I also have a hard time swallowing this pill. When i queue on PC NA i can get a group within 3 minutes at most times of day. Id rather wait 6 or 7 minutes and get groups that were properly sorted. Besides i think if they improved things like this about BGS more people would queue for them and offset the extra wait time needed. I know i would queue more often if i knew that i wasnt going to get stuck against a premade farming PUGs for AP.

ak_pvp

Yes

Joy_Division wrote: »

I wonder how many people think 4 good players are "premades".

As much as people like to think ESO caters to "noobs," the combat is not forgiving at all. The better and more experienced player almost always wins.

Most people play multiple, so you can see who is who. Also if you know the general BG community then you can tell who often premakes.

People say it caters to noobs because of the many strengths for outnumbering and cheese that allows bad players to live. But put them 1v1 or 4v4 good vs v bad and it shows.

Seraphayel

Yes

Biro123 wrote: »

The sole reason I don't do bg's.

I don't buy the idea that there isn't the population for separate queues. Imho, if there were separate queues, there would be more BG players. A lot more.

In my experience of bg's in other MMOs, premades were always the minority.

Well, on PS4 I am waiting ~ 30min throughout the day for a battleground to open, in the evening it's 5-10min. I really don't know why this takes so long, but it could be an issue.

itscompton

Apache_Kid wrote: »

I've pugged into many groups before where we smashed the other teams 500-0. Pre-made groups aren't the problem it's good players. If you made it so that no one could queue into a group and have it all be solo queue there would still be games where one team stomps the other two because one team simply got the better players.

There is a large skill-gap in PvP which makes those who aren't very good feel hopeless in many BG matches.

Until they have a healthy enough population to support multiple queues the only advice I can offer is to practice more, get a better build, Or get some friends.


All of this being said, I PUG most of my BGs and come in at least 2nd almost every time and win quite a few. It feels even better when you smash a pre-mades with your Pug group.

Agreed, if the 4 players in a premade aren't very good their group won't win. My friend got me into BG's for the first time this week and without even talking to our teammates the teams we were on won about 70% of the time because we're both pretty decent and played the objectives.

Skander

No

And MMR sistem would change things, the metter is that we don't have enough players for it

FearlessOne_2014

No

As a PUG in BGs. Premades don't ruins BG.

ZOSes matchmaker ruins BGs for both Pre Mades and PUGs alike.

Demycilian

Yes

I remember how premades killed the bg of WildStar. These people then went on to cry and troll the forum how there are no queueues popping and that carebears are to blame. To finally continue their journey and kill the pvp in the next mmo.

After a while this world just seems to be caught in a loop.

Jura23

Yes

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

There should definitely be a solo only queue in addition to the currently one. I know I'd play BGs a lot more if there was.

During late nights its not easy getting into a bg even early in night i have troubles with or without a group premade. If they made separate queues it would end up like the dungeon finder. Broken

Maybe ppl don't que because they don't want to be farmed by premades. I sure know I wouldn't,

Cinbri

Jura23 wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

There should definitely be a solo only queue in addition to the currently one. I know I'd play BGs a lot more if there was.

During late nights its not easy getting into a bg even early in night i have troubles with or without a group premade. If they made separate queues it would end up like the dungeon finder. Broken

Maybe ppl don't que because they don't want to be farmed by premades. I sure know I wouldn't,

Than why people didn't que when matchmaking was broken and allowed only solo q?

The_Brosteen

I personally think bgs should loose the game modes and have two queues, team and solo. Team will be how it is now but only deathmatch, solo will be a 5 or 6 player free for all.
Just my thoughts.

Shadowmaster

Yes

aliyavana wrote: »

Yes, nothing you can really do when your In a pug and the other group is a 4 stack of experienced pvpers.

Agree that they should break it out into "public" and "premade" queues but disagree that premades ruin the content.

Shadowmaster

Yes

Joy_Division wrote: »

I wonder how many people think 4 good players are "premades".

As much as people like to think ESO caters to "noobs," the combat is not forgiving at all. The better and more experienced player almost always wins.

I'd argue it's "almost always wins. I'd also point out in my opinion, it should be that way.

ak_pvp

Yes

Cinbri wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

There should definitely be a solo only queue in addition to the currently one. I know I'd play BGs a lot more if there was.

During late nights its not easy getting into a bg even early in night i have troubles with or without a group premade. If they made separate queues it would end up like the dungeon finder. Broken

Maybe ppl don't que because they don't want to be farmed by premades. I sure know I wouldn't,

Than why people didn't que when matchmaking was broken and allowed only solo q?

It was broken for solo too, just not as grievously broken. That is why.

Most games I play are full pugs, but then the occasional premade comes.

Seraphayel

Yes

Again, fighting a premade group once or twice is no problem. But when they're farming you the whole evening it becomes a chore and really turns you away from doing battlegrounds.

Tasear

Yes

Match making would be ideal.

munster1404

I don't care about premade groups. I just want to accrue enough APs to unlock essential Alliance War skill lines. I don't even mind getting last place in BG.

NyassaV

No

I'm very sorry that your unorganized pug with maybe only 1 or 2 "good" players isn't winning. Honestly sometimes 2 members of the group are the pugs and the other two are premade and just work well while the pugs fill in the gaps. I oly hear complaints about RNG which is nothing new

Cinbri

ak_pvp wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

There should definitely be a solo only queue in addition to the currently one. I know I'd play BGs a lot more if there was.

During late nights its not easy getting into a bg even early in night i have troubles with or without a group premade. If they made separate queues it would end up like the dungeon finder. Broken

Maybe ppl don't que because they don't want to be farmed by premades. I sure know I wouldn't,

Than why people didn't que when matchmaking was broken and allowed only solo q?

It was broken for solo too, just not as grievously broken. That is why.

Most games I play are full pugs, but then the occasional premade comes.

It was perfectly fine for solo queuers. Not the first weeks tho.
And people back than were saying "if i cant play with friends - i wont play it" and because of it q was still very long sometimes - people didnt want to solo q. But right after group q was fixed - bgs became alive.
Btw it seems mm does have some hidden mechanic of group q: if you q solo you will get matches fast, if you q with 3 or 4 - you might wait match for long, depends if other premades are q, and most likely you will get match of premade vs premade. Ofc if other prem not q you will either sit in q for 15+min or placed against random groups that made of 2+2/2+1+1.

WeyounTM

Yes

This one has had a lot of fun playing BGs, despite only doing it in solo queue and playing a weird support build. But I have to agree that once you run into premade stacks, things will get ugly pretty quickly. On the other hand you can get into a great pug team and get a lot of satisfaction by killing that premade team in another round...

At this point in time the population playing BGs might be its biggest problem. Hence why this one doesnt understand why the premades still go on with their farming business, no matter the consequences.
When I saw a popular streamer crushing through BGs with his high-skilled-friends team I wondered...."Wouldn't it be more skillfull to just split up in two 2 man groups and see if you can duke it out AGAINST each other...."?
But no....let the farming never end until even the last solo queue player has gone and you can wait 3 hours with your 4 man stack to get a matchup.

So yes, I agree....ZOS has done quite a bit wrong to get BGs to the place they are now. But we, as a whole community share some responsibility too. If you only play with your 4 man group in your comfortzone to go wreck people you are no better than ZOS for letting unbalanced BGs happening in the first place.

Leogon

Yes

It doesn't matter how good you are when you're queuing as a solo player because you can end up facing a premade group of 4 good players who've been playing together for a while and using discord to ask for heals, etc. Also, when you're not queuing as a premade group of 4, you sometimes end up with only 2 other players on your team instead of 3.

Drachenfier

Yes

Premades that know they are queuing against pugs are bottom feeders, imo. Can't handle competition, and look for easy wins, then pat each other on the back for being so "awesome".

What's funny is that when Premades are only allowed to queue against Premades, they suddenly all disappear. Happens in every game that institutes a group vs group queue for pvp.


If you want to "group with friends" - go to Cyrodiil. Pugstomping is for carebears.

Vanthras79

Yes

I go to Cryodiil. I don't waste my time with bgs.

leepalmer95

Yes

They ruin pvp as a whole, you can literally do nothing vs a heavy zerg full of wardens an healbots.

Datolite

Yes

It definitely ruins it for me.

We need separate queues. Period. There's no other way about it.

malicia

No

The only time I'l enter Battlegrounds is with a group of friends. I suck at PvP, so I go there simply to do an activity with friends. Take that away, and you won't see me in Battlegrounds again. Not sure if there are many like me, but this is my story, and I'll stick to it.

malicia

No

As an aside - as a premade group we sometimes win, sometimes lose, sometimes end up smack bang in the middle. Even premade groups can encounter better premade groups.