Battlegrounds are garbage now

jrgray93

It's been said a thousand times but battlegrounds are a complete waste of time since CP was added. There is no longer a competition. The winning team is decided by which team is a premade or has the most cheese builds. I swear, every single match anymore is against four players spamming Stampede and Dizzying Swing with the occasional Dawnbreaker, taking down 25k health, 3k crit resist, and 25k+ physical resist inside a second. I'm also max CP with a well min/maxed setup, yet I get shredded so fast I can't even react.

10+ matches today and every one was vs a premade. Players on the other teams just keep leaving because the premade is cleaning house. Nobody comes in to replace them because everyone is giving up on this awful experience.

I suppose my frustrations are just furthered by the absolute dumpster fire that magicka templars are right now. Being outclassed and outgunned in every possible way sure makes things frustrating, but at least I had a chance in non-CP.

Strider__Roshin

No, they were garbage before CP was added too. Quite frankly I think non-CP is more inclusive; however, Battlegrounds are a waste of time regardless.

maboleth

jrgray93 wrote: »

Players on the other teams just keep leaving because the premade is cleaning house.

Agree with you.

I did the same. Everytime I saw pre-made toxic creeps, I resigned without thinking twice and without any regret - go bash between yourselves, "heroes".

I stopped doing BGs altogether. Sotha sil is so much fun on PC EU now and I also boycott BGs with a hope that Zenimax would do something to make them better. And with much more sportsmanship.

Nogawd

jrgray93 wrote: »

10+ matches today and every one was vs a premade. Players on the other teams just keep leaving because the premade is cleaning house. Nobody comes in to replace them because everyone is giving up on this awful experience.

Or just make some friends?

DeadlyRecluse

They were just barely not-garbage before. I can't imagine taking them seriously now--I don't expect to step back in unless I'm pretty well inebriated and queuing with 4 tanks.

UnversedNumber3

Why not just have a CP and a non CP option. Just like the pvp campaigns.

Thogard

You are complaining in the wrong place. IMO either queue as a premade or don’t queue at all.

I queue solo pretty regularly if there aren’t other premades on, but as soon as I go against one I’ll try to make one of my own.

BGs are meant for team competition, not four soloers running around.

I wish they could make it so that you have to group up with four prior to queueing.

jaws343

Honestly, pre-mades aren't much of an issue in the above 50 BGs. In the below 50 BGs pre-mades are toxic and should be removed. I was trying to get vigor on a character I was leveling without having to deal with the load screen issues in Cyrodil and nearly every match in the below 50 BGs was against the same 2 to 4 players running coordinated builds against under 50 players. For the most part, the under 50 BG is populated by newer players or players running un-leveled builds. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to continue playing battlegrounds when they come against a team that nearly shuts out 2 teams in a deathmatch. Everytime I popped into a match against this team it was an attempt at dying as fast as I could to end the match early and take home that 2.5K AP while avoiding the deserter penalty.

Mihael

Thogard wrote: »

You are complaining in the wrong place. IMO either queue as a premade or don’t queue at all.

I queue solo pretty regularly if there aren’t other premades on, but as soon as I go against one I’ll try to make one of my own.

BGs are meant for team competition, not four soloers running around.

I wish they could make it so that you have to group up with four prior to queueing.

99% of the time I see you in bgs you are in pre made fighting randoms so idk about that but my point is No one should be forced to be in a premade group to play battle grounds that would defeat the whole purpose of quick pvp if each time you want to play you have to sit their and find 4 people this would be especially bad for newer players. What they need to do is incentivize people to play more bgs so they can have a solo and group que
.

And to the excuse of “just find friends to play with”
I for example could easily make a group of 4 good players but I don’t because it takes 0 skill to fight randoms when you are in a group of 4 and using discord i don’t know how that is fun to some people but I guess to each their own

Urza1234

It baffles me that people would expect -not- to go against a premade, whats the point of a battleground if its not a premade? The point is to take your premade team, comp(osition), and strats, and duke it out against other premades. Its like complaining about premades in WoW Arenas, OF COURSE you'll be going against premades.
You know what the competitive format is in MMOs for solo players? Duels.

Beardimus

CP has rekt the unique fun playstyle BG had.

It's now a dull 15 minute zerg fest.

I hit weekly leaderboards from early in and now have gone back to PvE a bit hoping they change it.

Such a shame

Solariken

I totally agree that CP in PvP is effing stupid, I hate it so much. My biggest gripe is the opposite though - I hate that so many people are nigh unkillable.

Defensive mechanics are way too strong in CP PvP, most of which can be stacked to the moon whereas offensive utilities aren't stackable in the same way. Then you have the bass-ackward Wrobel design philosophy where most defensive ults and abilities are way cheaper than offensive ones which just exacerbates the problem.

Waffennacht

jrgray93

I prefer not to run in premades for the same reasons I prefer not to use resource drain poisons. I find it cheap and unfair, which ruins the fun as much as being unable to compete does.

Sotha_Sil

Cp is not the root of the problem. BGs are not fun for all these reasons :

- You can't choose the battleground mode you want to play. You are forced to randomly play the one they tell you to.
- Game starts even if your team is not complete which will most of the time conclude in you losing the game
- All CPs are allowed. When you see a low cp (10 to 600) coming in your group, you will probably lose the game
- 4vs4vs4 : fun at the beginning but boring in the end -> 2 teams versus one happens a lot.
- poor game modes and no arenas ?? Imperial city arena anyone?
- poor alliance points compared to cyrodiil unless you win all the games or it's 3 am and everyone is sleeping in cyro.
- people just don't understand the purpose of capturing the flag (domination / crazy king) games => they just don't play the game and try to kill everybody which results in you losing the game.
- no spectator mode?
- you can't create your own closed games
- power sigil in deathmatch mode ? why the need to put this buff?

Thogard

Mihael wrote: »

And to the excuse of “just find friends to play with”
I for example could easily make a group of 4 good players but I don’t because it takes 0 skill to fight randoms when you are in a group of 4 and using discord i don’t know how that is fun to some people but I guess to each their own

Please do. Premades are a ton of fun to fight with other premades. THe best BG matches ive ever been in have been when we've had all premades.

More premades = better..

If you want to queue solo, go duel.

Waffennacht

Thogard wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

And to the excuse of “just find friends to play with”
I for example could easily make a group of 4 good players but I don’t because it takes 0 skill to fight randoms when you are in a group of 4 and using discord i don’t know how that is fun to some people but I guess to each their own

Please do. Premades are a ton of fun to fight with other premades. THe best BG matches ive ever been in have been when we've had all premades.

More premades = better..

If you want to queue solo, go duel.

Dueling isn't nearly as much fun. Plus... Toxic players

Mihael

@Thogard @Urza1234 you guys make excellent points premade vs premade makes very fun matches because you and your group have to work hard for the other team, the thing you forgot to mention is most of the time bgs is premade v random v random.

^this is why I said make separate ques, I love to play in small group but only when going against outnumber or another small man team because it requires your group to try hard and gives you a challenge

Mihael

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

And to the excuse of “just find friends to play with”
I for example could easily make a group of 4 good players but I don’t because it takes 0 skill to fight randoms when you are in a group of 4 and using discord i don’t know how that is fun to some people but I guess to each their own

Please do. Premades are a ton of fun to fight with other premades. THe best BG matches ive ever been in have been when we've had all premades.

More premades = better..

If you want to queue solo, go duel.

Dueling isn't nearly as much fun. Plus... Toxic players

I think dueling is fun cos it helps improve my skill the thing that ruins it for me is the people who make these cancer dueling builds like a health debuff build just to win 1v1

Thogard

Mihael wrote: »

@Thogard @Urza1234 you guys make excellent points premade vs premade makes very fun matches because you and your group have to work hard for the other team, the thing you forgot to mention is most of the time bgs is premade v random v random.

^this is why I said make separate ques, I love to play in small group but only when going against outnumber or another small man team because it requires your group to try hard and gives you a challenge

separate queues is great, but i dont think there are enough people for it.

Id be down for a group finder thing for BGs, where it placed you with people and those people were consistently in your group. you could organize voice chat, vote kick bad players, etc. it would add a lot of elitism to the BGs but im OK with that.

As is, there's nothing rewarding about beating a pug as a premade. i just feel bad.

But this is small group vs small group action... premades aren't the problem. Pugs are the problem.

Right now there are 8 people in my discord and we are intentionally queueing two groups together so that we can fight. I really wish we had 12.

I also think that if you forced people into a group of 4 before queueing it could increase the BG population. Not only would the fights be more fair, but you'd also have people bugging their friends to play in BGs... peer pressure to increase the pop

Waffennacht

Mihael wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

And to the excuse of “just find friends to play with”
I for example could easily make a group of 4 good players but I don’t because it takes 0 skill to fight randoms when you are in a group of 4 and using discord i don’t know how that is fun to some people but I guess to each their own

Please do. Premades are a ton of fun to fight with other premades. THe best BG matches ive ever been in have been when we've had all premades.

More premades = better..

If you want to queue solo, go duel.

Dueling isn't nearly as much fun. Plus... Toxic players

I think dueling is fun cos it helps improve my skill the thing that ruins it for me is the people who make these cancer dueling builds like a health debuff build just to win 1v1

@Mihael I agree, but always someone shows up to ruin the experience

Mayrael

I was telling that long time ago. CPs/non-CPs doesnt matter. What matters is premades vs randoms. Premade groups (3-4 players grouped before entering BG as 3 coordinated players is more than enough to stomp pugs) should fight against other premades, pugs vs pugs this is the only way to make it balanced as premades 95% of a time not only are made of pros with BG builds, but also they use voice comunicators and this makes huge difference.
Maybe at the first few times butchering pugs is fun, but later it gets boring. In general it will be always better to group up before BG and folks should learn it (even without comunicator exp premade players will steam roll pugs) but I understand frustration of pugs as I used to pug a lot in the past (in many many games) and it always gets the same: premades slaughter pugs few times, half of the pug group resigns or goes afk, rest tries to fight but has no chance while premades just run from point a to point b and dont even care because there is almost no ressistance.

Morgul667

CP BG is no Fun

Mayrael

Morgul667 wrote: »

CP BG is no Fun

Update your build to CPs and youll be ok, its not because of CPs.
@Sotha_Sil made earlier some very good points about what is wrong with BGs. Its still new element of the game and needs to evolve and it needs right direction - making BGs non-CP wont solve its problems (even when there was no CPs in BGs, when you were grouped with <500 CPs you could be almost sure you will loose - its not the matter of CPs, sorry, its about skills and knowledge about BG modes)

Beardimus

Mayrael wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

CP BG is no Fun

Update your build to CPs and youll be ok, its not because of CPs.
@Sotha_Sil made earlier some very good points about what is wrong with BGs. Its still new element of the game and needs to evolve and it needs right direction - making BGs non-CP wont solve its problems (even when there was no CPs in BGs, when you were grouped with <500 CPs you could be almost sure you will loose - its not the matter of CPs, sorry, its about skills and knowledge about BG modes)

I disagree, and I disagree with many of the points Sotha Sil made.

BG were fun before, sure they could be I.proved but they were fun. CP has changes that totally, instantly..

Premades Vs Pug were annoying from the off. Sure a coordinated ore made is even more annoying now but still the bigger change as its wrecked the game pace and playstyle is purely CP it was a black and white change

- pace / playstyle has changed
- rules out lower Cpplayers many of whom hit leader boards before the change

Vivec premade pug stomping hero's will hopefully lose interest soon, Pop will drop we can disable CP and if we need to help Pop male free for all

Drazkyth

Agreed.

Beastnas

It is absolutely ridiculous that a coordinated max CP group can technically be matched against solo sub-CP160s for this game mode. Sure, a solution is "get a premade yourself", but then why allow solos in the first place? Why allow sub-CP160?

Battlegrounds should be a quick and accessible PvP type. Have a ranked mode for those looking for the group/coordinated playstyle.

Baconlad

The issue with having all these "options" for bgs
-choosing gamemode
-premade vs premade, solo q vs solo q
-no cp vs cp
-ranked vs unranked
Is that there simply arent enough players interested. Players in ESO get scared of dieing...they cling to large zergs in cyrodil and the though of joining a 8 man team against your 4 man scares them. In top of that, with all the hatred towards no cp...cp...pugs vs premades, other players would rather just find an enemy resource and farm it, get tons more ap. Or zerg surf from keep to keep and make their AP and contributions that way.

Rickter

they were garbage when they went live.

> I CALLED IT <

and i was shamed. Everyone who partook in that shaming needs to eat their words. EVERYTHING i listed was true:

POISONS
LAUNCH WARDEN OVER POWERED
PROC SETS
STACKED TEAMS
STREAMLINED FORCE FED META

Now we know MagDen and StamDens are in fact OP. and out of that list only proc sets were addressed only after BGs were a steaming carcass. Look at all the people saying "BGs are going to be AWESOME"

Kartalin

To me I don't have much trouble with the existence of premades, my problem lately is that it seems so many of the premades now seem to be going out of their way to min/max and chase the meta. I understand wanting to be competitive and winning is enjoyable and all, but when you roflstomp every team you face (or fight a similarly built group to what's basically a draw) I think it starts being unfun. I've purposely spent most of my recent bgs solo queuing more as a challenge to myself but it's getting pretty painful. Even when I've gone in with a casual "hey let's go run some bgs for a change of pace" premade, it's pretty painful.

Mihael

Yup there are a ton of solutions that could be implemented to fix the premades problem such as separate ques or better ranking system but in the end they would not work because their are not enough players and unfortunately it doesn’t look like zos will do anything meaningful to increase pop