Everything needed to know about Bow/Bow in PVE - Updated for Stonethorn

JulLeBarge

Thanks for you advice

SodanTok

Updated for Greymoor, whatever was necessary. My interest in ESO hit record low thanks to last 3 (and upcoming 4th) updates that were so focused on standardization they managed to ruin most of class and skill balance and yet somehow always underperforming stamina ranged setups *fit* their spreadsheet power fantasies and received no improvements.

Main changes:
- (Perfected) Master Bow too good to pass up, so optimal frontbar option along yeah yeah Relequen, Lokke, VMA Bow.
- No class changes (except Siphon on Necro changing back to normal skill) because game is in perfect state and all classes are equally powerful
- No race changes because game is in perfect state and all races are equally powerful
- Disregard the last 2 points

Jowrik

SodanTok wrote: »

Updated for Greymoor, whatever was necessary. My interest in ESO hit record low thanks to last 3 (and upcoming 4th) updates that were so focused on standardization they managed to ruin most of class and skill balance and yet somehow always underperforming stamina ranged setups *fit* their....

Spot on man. It's been a hard time accepting what direction the game is taking. Performance, balance and class/build uniqueness has hit rock bottom for me.

rumple9

Why would anyone use anything other than Marksman + Hawkeye and Skoria for pvp?

SodanTok

rumple9 wrote: »

Why would anyone use anything other than Marksman + Hawkeye and Skoria for pvp?

Probably because those are bad sets, but i think you are in wrong thread?

rumple9

Why are they bad sets?

SodanTok

rumple9 wrote: »

Why are they bad sets?

They give less damage than other sets, plain and simple. Skoria isnt even damage set good for stamina user with worthless 1pc and 2pc thats okay only in noCP environment.

sindalstar

Hey SodanTok

Any intial build thoughts on sets and skills that Bow dudes should be considering?

SodanTok

sindalstar wrote: »

Hey SodanTok

Any intial build thoughts on sets and skills that Bow dudes should be considering?

hey, sorry can you be more specific? I went over gear and skills to consider in the main post so need bit more specific question or I would answer the same way as there ^^'

sindalstar

SodanTok wrote: »

sindalstar wrote: »

Hey SodanTok

Any intial build thoughts on sets and skills that Bow dudes should be considering?

hey, sorry can you be more specific? I went over gear and skills to consider in the main post so need bit more specific question or I would answer the same way as there ^^'

Oh, Sorry

I could have SWORN i added 'for the next dlc patch'
I meant for the upcoming changes that are happening

SodanTok

sindalstar wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

sindalstar wrote: »

Hey SodanTok

Any intial build thoughts on sets and skills that Bow dudes should be considering?

hey, sorry can you be more specific? I went over gear and skills to consider in the main post so need bit more specific question or I would answer the same way as there ^^'

Oh, Sorry

I could have SWORN i added 'for the next dlc patch'
I meant for the upcoming changes that are happening

That makes more sense Shame I cant offer much of an answer as I havent done testing and cant promise I will. One thing is clear that there is no AY coming back again like its for regular stam builds as its still melee locked. In that sense I see only DPS gap getting bigger, which is obvious cause of ranged stam being mostly ignored.

Basically I dont believe anything will change. Gear like Lokke, Rele, Tzogvin will still be relevant just first two weaker. Improved Acuity or Fanged Snake might offer some alternatives one would have to test and explore.

Nothing changed to skills as far as I am aware so no changes. Stamsorcs get spammable to use which is pretty good and interesting change but will still be worse than Snipe.

Provin915

Nice guide. Just turned 50 on my first character. I went as a Nightblade Bow. Should I opt for a second bow or 2H for backbar (PvE)? Also, what gear should I farm first before getting the BiS gear? I'm not CP160 yet..

Anyone have a up-to-date guide for a stamina Nightblade Bow build?

SodanTok

Provin915 wrote: »

Nice guide. Just turned 50 on my first character. I went as a Nightblade Bow. Should I opt for a second bow or 2H for backbar (PvE)? Also, what gear should I farm first before getting the BiS gear? I'm not CP160 yet..

Anyone have a up-to-date guide for a stamina Nightblade Bow build?

All is written in original post including gear alternatives. Its up to you to pick and choose what is easier to get. Set that costs money, set that needs master crafter, set you can get in dungeon and so on....

MudcrabAttack

Last night on my Nightblade archer I swapped from Tzogvin to Mechanical Acuity since I had some lying around from a couple years ago and Tzogvin takes several seconds to proc, Acuity is now instant. Then I swapped Vicious Ophedian for Swamp Raider since there's about 2/3 disease and poison damage on average throughout the dungeon runs, and Nightblade has resource return for each kill now. It all worked pretty well.

Arwyr

any thoughts on the venomous smite set? i've been getting some solid results with mine, especially on necro. has some nice aoe too.

SodanTok

Arwyr wrote: »

any thoughts on the venomous smite set? i've been getting some solid results with mine, especially on necro. has some nice aoe too.

Not really, its same as most average proc sets. Not really relevant in usage. If considering only strong proc sets Relequen will out DPS it single target and sets like Azureblight for AoE.

Provin915

Relequen seems to be the BiS gear, but isn't it situational? Does the gear set still outperform other sets if you can't keep up max stacks?

Can Lokkestiiz be swapped out? You can get Major Slayer from Roaring Opportunist which is a great set for magicka builds right?

As for monster sets; Velidreth's seems really good, but do you need to be in close-range in order to hit the target? As bow/bow I try to stay long-range. Will Velidreth be useful then? Is Stormfist/Sellistrix better? Or can I completely remove monster sets and get two full gear sets?

Master Bow/VMA are still BiS right?

Looking for advice. Want to min-max my NB bow/bow.

SodanTok

Provin915 wrote: »

Relequen seems to be the BiS gear, but isn't it situational? Does the gear set still outperform other sets if you can't keep up max stacks?

Can Lokkestiiz be swapped out? You can get Major Slayer from Roaring Opportunist which is a great set for magicka builds right?

As for monster sets; Velidreth's seems really good, but do you need to be in close-range in order to hit the target? As bow/bow I try to stay long-range. Will Velidreth be useful then? Is Stormfist/Sellistrix better? Or can I completely remove monster sets and get two full gear sets?

Master Bow/VMA are still BiS right?

Looking for advice. Want to min-max my NB bow/bow.

All sets are situational Changes to relequen made it more usable than it was before but when its not there is all the other alternatives I have listed and alternatives I did not even consider. Lokke can also be swapped out of course, again, its situational. RO on healer (or well DD if thats their thing), War Machine/Master Architect in group are the time to swap out of it.
And again to be replaced by one of alternatives, there is no default set like AY to just pick whenever rele/lokke needs to be swapped but pretty much Tzogwin, Leviathan, NMA are the easy options.

Monster sets are weak. Only real strong monster set that works with bow in hand is Maarselok. Master Bow should be your go to default weapon unless you need AoE damage or like using Maarselok. If you need some AoE damage then Veli would probably be useful and can hit enemies (not really precise hit) from quite a range. Stromfist or Sellistrix are sets of past, usable only when you really cant get anything better.

Reason I mention Maarselok or even Velidreth is that long-range is usually temporary state. Being able to DPS long range targets is definitely the main benefit but staying in long range doesnt happen all that often.

tl;dr use Master/VMA bow with relequen and lokke by default and change anything only if you are trying to minmax for specific situations.

Provin915

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

Relequen seems to be the BiS gear, but isn't it situational? Does the gear set still outperform other sets if you can't keep up max stacks?

Can Lokkestiiz be swapped out? You can get Major Slayer from Roaring Opportunist which is a great set for magicka builds right?

As for monster sets; Velidreth's seems really good, but do you need to be in close-range in order to hit the target? As bow/bow I try to stay long-range. Will Velidreth be useful then? Is Stormfist/Sellistrix better? Or can I completely remove monster sets and get two full gear sets?

Master Bow/VMA are still BiS right?

Looking for advice. Want to min-max my NB bow/bow.

All sets are situational Changes to relequen made it more usable than it was before but when its not there is all the other alternatives I have listed and alternatives I did not even consider. Lokke can also be swapped out of course, again, its situational. RO on healer (or well DD if thats their thing), War Machine/Master Architect in group are the time to swap out of it.
And again to be replaced by one of alternatives, there is no default set like AY to just pick whenever rele/lokke needs to be swapped but pretty much Tzogwin, Leviathan, NMA are the easy options.

Monster sets are weak. Only real strong monster set that works with bow in hand is Maarselok. Master Bow should be your go to default weapon unless you need AoE damage or like using Maarselok. If you need some AoE damage then Veli would probably be useful and can hit enemies (not really precise hit) from quite a range. Stromfist or Sellistrix are sets of past, usable only when you really cant get anything better.

Reason I mention Maarselok or even Velidreth is that long-range is usually temporary state. Being able to DPS long range targets is definitely the main benefit but staying in long range doesnt happen all that often.

tl;dr use Master/VMA bow with relequen and lokke by default and change anything only if you are trying to minmax for specific situations.

Ty for the reply man!

I'll probably stick with Relequen and VO for now. Those seem pretty strong overall. What do you think about Tzogvin? Is the 5-set bonus better than Relequen's 5-set?

Hmm I barely use bash so I think Maarselok would be wasted on me. I agree on your point I'm not constantly long-range which kinda sucks because it defeats the purpose of the bow-passives and playstyle. If you think monster-sets are weak, what do you think about running full Relequen and Tzogvin set for example? You'd get quite strong bonuses.

I'll definitely stick with the Master and VMA bow.

SodanTok

Provin915 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

Relequen seems to be the BiS gear, but isn't it situational? Does the gear set still outperform other sets if you can't keep up max stacks?

Can Lokkestiiz be swapped out? You can get Major Slayer from Roaring Opportunist which is a great set for magicka builds right?

As for monster sets; Velidreth's seems really good, but do you need to be in close-range in order to hit the target? As bow/bow I try to stay long-range. Will Velidreth be useful then? Is Stormfist/Sellistrix better? Or can I completely remove monster sets and get two full gear sets?

Master Bow/VMA are still BiS right?

Looking for advice. Want to min-max my NB bow/bow.

All sets are situational Changes to relequen made it more usable than it was before but when its not there is all the other alternatives I have listed and alternatives I did not even consider. Lokke can also be swapped out of course, again, its situational. RO on healer (or well DD if thats their thing), War Machine/Master Architect in group are the time to swap out of it.
And again to be replaced by one of alternatives, there is no default set like AY to just pick whenever rele/lokke needs to be swapped but pretty much Tzogwin, Leviathan, NMA are the easy options.

Monster sets are weak. Only real strong monster set that works with bow in hand is Maarselok. Master Bow should be your go to default weapon unless you need AoE damage or like using Maarselok. If you need some AoE damage then Veli would probably be useful and can hit enemies (not really precise hit) from quite a range. Stromfist or Sellistrix are sets of past, usable only when you really cant get anything better.

Reason I mention Maarselok or even Velidreth is that long-range is usually temporary state. Being able to DPS long range targets is definitely the main benefit but staying in long range doesnt happen all that often.

tl;dr use Master/VMA bow with relequen and lokke by default and change anything only if you are trying to minmax for specific situations.

Ty for the reply man!

I'll probably stick with Relequen and VO for now. Those seem pretty strong overall. What do you think about Tzogvin? Is the 5-set bonus better than Relequen's 5-set?

Hmm I barely use bash so I think Maarselok would be wasted on me. I agree on your point I'm not constantly long-range which kinda sucks because it defeats the purpose of the bow-passives and playstyle. If you think monster-sets are weak, what do you think about running full Relequen and Tzogvin set for example? You'd get quite strong bonuses.

I'll definitely stick with the Master and VMA bow.

Tzogwin set is strong only if the Minor Force is something you have been missing. Cant really be compared in value to other sets because how Minor Force can be gained elsewhere. Its pretty weak when you can use Barbed Trap and get good Minor Force uptime, but arguably pretty strong when you use it to replace the psijic skilll for Minor Force. Some other set + Lightweight trap for situations where Barbed wouldnt work would probably end up better but having to remorph trap or work around how annoying lightweight trap is, is pain for me to never bother.
In simple ways, if you stand near enemies to place barbed trap you never use Tzogvin if you cant use barbed trap you generally use tzogvin combined with strongest set for that encounter.

That should answer you what I think of Rele+Tzog too Use when you need tzogvin not just always.

Provin915

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

Relequen seems to be the BiS gear, but isn't it situational? Does the gear set still outperform other sets if you can't keep up max stacks?

Can Lokkestiiz be swapped out? You can get Major Slayer from Roaring Opportunist which is a great set for magicka builds right?

As for monster sets; Velidreth's seems really good, but do you need to be in close-range in order to hit the target? As bow/bow I try to stay long-range. Will Velidreth be useful then? Is Stormfist/Sellistrix better? Or can I completely remove monster sets and get two full gear sets?

Master Bow/VMA are still BiS right?

Looking for advice. Want to min-max my NB bow/bow.

All sets are situational Changes to relequen made it more usable than it was before but when its not there is all the other alternatives I have listed and alternatives I did not even consider. Lokke can also be swapped out of course, again, its situational. RO on healer (or well DD if thats their thing), War Machine/Master Architect in group are the time to swap out of it.
And again to be replaced by one of alternatives, there is no default set like AY to just pick whenever rele/lokke needs to be swapped but pretty much Tzogwin, Leviathan, NMA are the easy options.

Monster sets are weak. Only real strong monster set that works with bow in hand is Maarselok. Master Bow should be your go to default weapon unless you need AoE damage or like using Maarselok. If you need some AoE damage then Veli would probably be useful and can hit enemies (not really precise hit) from quite a range. Stromfist or Sellistrix are sets of past, usable only when you really cant get anything better.

Reason I mention Maarselok or even Velidreth is that long-range is usually temporary state. Being able to DPS long range targets is definitely the main benefit but staying in long range doesnt happen all that often.

tl;dr use Master/VMA bow with relequen and lokke by default and change anything only if you are trying to minmax for specific situations.

Ty for the reply man!

I'll probably stick with Relequen and VO for now. Those seem pretty strong overall. What do you think about Tzogvin? Is the 5-set bonus better than Relequen's 5-set?

Hmm I barely use bash so I think Maarselok would be wasted on me. I agree on your point I'm not constantly long-range which kinda sucks because it defeats the purpose of the bow-passives and playstyle. If you think monster-sets are weak, what do you think about running full Relequen and Tzogvin set for example? You'd get quite strong bonuses.

I'll definitely stick with the Master and VMA bow.

Tzogwin set is strong only if the Minor Force is something you have been missing. Cant really be compared in value to other sets because how Minor Force can be gained elsewhere. Its pretty weak when you can use Barbed Trap and get good Minor Force uptime, but arguably pretty strong when you use it to replace the psijic skilll for Minor Force. Some other set + Lightweight trap for situations where Barbed wouldnt work would probably end up better but having to remorph trap or work around how annoying lightweight trap is, is pain for me to never bother.
In simple ways, if you stand near enemies to place barbed trap you never use Tzogvin if you cant use barbed trap you generally use tzogvin combined with strongest set for that encounter.

That should answer you what I think of Rele+Tzog too Use when you need tzogvin not just always.

Thanks for the reply again mate. I barely use Barbed Trap so I thought I'd get Tzogvin and get Minor Force that way. I slotted Silver Shards so I get the Fighter's Guild passives.

I agree combination of Relequen and Tzogvin's would be strong overall right? I like the Vicious Ophidian set too. I'm still not sure on the monster sets but for now I'll just farm Velidreth so I atleast have something. Still running with random blue gear

SodanTok

Provin915 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

Relequen seems to be the BiS gear, but isn't it situational? Does the gear set still outperform other sets if you can't keep up max stacks?

Can Lokkestiiz be swapped out? You can get Major Slayer from Roaring Opportunist which is a great set for magicka builds right?

As for monster sets; Velidreth's seems really good, but do you need to be in close-range in order to hit the target? As bow/bow I try to stay long-range. Will Velidreth be useful then? Is Stormfist/Sellistrix better? Or can I completely remove monster sets and get two full gear sets?

Master Bow/VMA are still BiS right?

Looking for advice. Want to min-max my NB bow/bow.

All sets are situational Changes to relequen made it more usable than it was before but when its not there is all the other alternatives I have listed and alternatives I did not even consider. Lokke can also be swapped out of course, again, its situational. RO on healer (or well DD if thats their thing), War Machine/Master Architect in group are the time to swap out of it.
And again to be replaced by one of alternatives, there is no default set like AY to just pick whenever rele/lokke needs to be swapped but pretty much Tzogwin, Leviathan, NMA are the easy options.

Monster sets are weak. Only real strong monster set that works with bow in hand is Maarselok. Master Bow should be your go to default weapon unless you need AoE damage or like using Maarselok. If you need some AoE damage then Veli would probably be useful and can hit enemies (not really precise hit) from quite a range. Stromfist or Sellistrix are sets of past, usable only when you really cant get anything better.

Reason I mention Maarselok or even Velidreth is that long-range is usually temporary state. Being able to DPS long range targets is definitely the main benefit but staying in long range doesnt happen all that often.

tl;dr use Master/VMA bow with relequen and lokke by default and change anything only if you are trying to minmax for specific situations.

Ty for the reply man!

I'll probably stick with Relequen and VO for now. Those seem pretty strong overall. What do you think about Tzogvin? Is the 5-set bonus better than Relequen's 5-set?

Hmm I barely use bash so I think Maarselok would be wasted on me. I agree on your point I'm not constantly long-range which kinda sucks because it defeats the purpose of the bow-passives and playstyle. If you think monster-sets are weak, what do you think about running full Relequen and Tzogvin set for example? You'd get quite strong bonuses.

I'll definitely stick with the Master and VMA bow.

Tzogwin set is strong only if the Minor Force is something you have been missing. Cant really be compared in value to other sets because how Minor Force can be gained elsewhere. Its pretty weak when you can use Barbed Trap and get good Minor Force uptime, but arguably pretty strong when you use it to replace the psijic skilll for Minor Force. Some other set + Lightweight trap for situations where Barbed wouldnt work would probably end up better but having to remorph trap or work around how annoying lightweight trap is, is pain for me to never bother.
In simple ways, if you stand near enemies to place barbed trap you never use Tzogvin if you cant use barbed trap you generally use tzogvin combined with strongest set for that encounter.

That should answer you what I think of Rele+Tzog too Use when you need tzogvin not just always.

Thanks for the reply again mate. I barely use Barbed Trap so I thought I'd get Tzogvin and get Minor Force that way. I slotted Silver Shards so I get the Fighter's Guild passives.

I agree combination of Relequen and Tzogvin's would be strong overall right? I like the Vicious Ophidian set too. I'm still not sure on the monster sets but for now I'll just farm Velidreth so I atleast have something. Still running with random blue gear

Strongest combination would be using Barbed Trap and then using different set than tzogvin But if you arent gonna then yeah Rele tzog would be probably strongest. VO is nice when it matters so again make the decision on your own. Its crap set if you barely benefit from the sustain, its amazing if you need that sustain.

Provin915

Any significant updates for bow/bow in Markarth?

SodanTok

Provin915 wrote: »

Any significant updates for bow/bow in Markarth?

Only thing that comes to my mind is new special bow from new arena. Usable on classes that spam snipe a lot (warden, sorc) when fighting in very close range. From very limited testing, for me, it worked better than Master Bow on Warden when using Snipe, hard to tell if its better than Master Bow with Cutting Dive as I despise the off balance bird spam rotation, but worse than Master Bow on Necro which has many good class skills to be used.

SkinnyCheeks has warden build video up and ready so I dont feel like I need to explain much about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t_9Fy_RL0E

Provin915

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

Any significant updates for bow/bow in Markarth?

Only thing that comes to my mind is new special bow from new arena. Usable on classes that spam snipe a lot (warden, sorc) when fighting in very close range. From very limited testing, for me, it worked better than Master Bow on Warden when using Snipe, hard to tell if its better than Master Bow with Cutting Dive as I despise the off balance bird spam rotation, but worse than Master Bow on Necro which has many good class skills to be used.

SkinnyCheeks has warden build video up and ready so I dont feel like I need to explain much about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t_9Fy_RL0E

Ah yea, the new bow will probably be great on frontbar for my NB bow/bow. Will maelstrom or master bow be better on offbar? Got volley on offbar and poison injection on frontbar.

SodanTok

Provin915 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Provin915 wrote: »

Any significant updates for bow/bow in Markarth?

Only thing that comes to my mind is new special bow from new arena. Usable on classes that spam snipe a lot (warden, sorc) when fighting in very close range. From very limited testing, for me, it worked better than Master Bow on Warden when using Snipe, hard to tell if its better than Master Bow with Cutting Dive as I despise the off balance bird spam rotation, but worse than Master Bow on Necro which has many good class skills to be used.

SkinnyCheeks has warden build video up and ready so I dont feel like I need to explain much about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t_9Fy_RL0E

Ah yea, the new bow will probably be great on frontbar for my NB bow/bow. Will maelstrom or master bow be better on offbar? Got volley on offbar and poison injection on frontbar.

VMA bow comes ahead in general, cant deny the masterbow would also buff buffed snipes from new arena bow but personally havent seen it perform better than VMA still.

Provin915

For the new update definitely run Kinras Wrath over Tzogvin for more DPS.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
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