Best way to balance shield stacking Magicka Sorcerers?

jakeyura

Neloth

Make shields susceptible to both penetration and critical damage

We need to see first how morrowind sustain nerf affects shield stacking.

Emma_Overload

None of the above. Leave Sorcs alone!

Aedaryl

Theze answer are so stupid, this is make by a player hwo don't even know mechanics of shield.

Make shield susceptible to critical damage would kill NB first, then sorc.

Make shield suceptible to armor and penetration is so stupid too : Shield have 0 armor and spell resistance that's mean you can't descrease more the armor, so you can't have better penetration against shield. :
make shield have an armor would be a buff, people could stack armor and spell resistance, and shields will be better. And even if people don't make that, it will change nothing, you can overpenatre 10k resistance extremely easy, making shield work just like now.

Increase magicka cost of shields is not a way, how NB could survive ?

Better visual indication wll not be a buff, decent player don't need it, and also, sorc don't wait 6s before use again a shield when they are under pressure.

Add a cast time on shields will just destroy them, hwo use cast time ability in PvP ? No one, expect dark deal (because it's 100% reward 0% risk) because you can be interrupt and a decent player will ALWAYS interupt you, meaning you are just enable to use shield at all, it will be too punishing. Also, ZoS can't make an ability non cancelable, that cancel animation is a thing that's not even intended by zos, they can't manage it.

Smart and good solutions now :

First, people need to understand that magicka sorc is perfectly balanced, problems are not from the class, but from sets and anulment shield stacking

- Make pirate skeleton proc only on health bar and not damage shield, it will make it less powerfull and non optimal on a shield stacker, or just nerf that set by 50%

- Descrease the cost back from harness magicka, it will make this skill more balanced.

- Make hardened ward and annulment not stackable or less appealing, powerfull by minor/medium/major system on shields : class shields are medium shield exept hardened (a major one), healing ward a minor shield and annulment a major shield : this fix that problem without impacting other classes.

Major shield could just not stack like buff or major shield will have the shield cut by 50% when you stack it.

BUT : if you nerf the sorc and light armor shield stack you NEED to reduce the streak cost increase, because sorc would be too squichy and can't escape with that espacially on PTS and if streak become more vital to sorcs.

Sharee

Option 7: make shields susceptible to debuffs, the way heals are. For the same reason battle spirit lowers both heal strength and shield strength - they are both a variant of "healing", one reactive, one proactive.

DHale

The best balance for a shield is .... lean in really close..... I will tell you the secret.... get a two hander.... dizzy swing.... shield is gone.... when healing ward goes on if the sorc gets the chance repeat step one. A 10 k shield for six seconds is .... NOTHING.

arkansas_ESO

Just make it to where Harness Magicka and Hardened can't stack.

Biro123

Yeah, none of these options work. Most already are addressed, and on the cast time.. Every animation has a wind-up before its effect goes off. If you ani-cancel before then, the skill does not cast.
The wind up for shields are already really long, so ani-cancelling gains little. In addition it makes it so they cannot be a reactive defence (unlike blockbor dodge) which cancels whatever else and occurs instantly.
This forces shields to be kept up pro actively. This costs a LOT of mag to do, so sorcs WILL hurt because of the general sustain changes more than other classes. This is why I think dark exchange hasn't been touched.

actosh

Best solution is, and i cant believe zos has did it until today, categorize shields into the Major/Minor System.

That way u can only stack a major (ults or such like barrier) and 1 minor shield( like annulment, ward whatever)

Baconlad

Theres nothing wrong with sorcs and their shields. Its how they defend. Correct me if im wrong but when sorcs are under heavy fire they dont spam more than one or two shields. And have *** for healing unless you let their healing ward heal them.

Fighting a mag sorc is about timing, MOST sorcs i have fought (unless they use pets....in which case FmL) can get tunnel vision when fighting me as a magplar, all you need is a short window where they get a bit too carried away, a dark flare javy and unstable core explosion will cause a LOT of butthole puckering.

If you are in a dueling environment you should be changing you playstyle up to fight them.

If you are in open world and you biggest problem is magsorcs then build to fight magsorcs, which is to use your highest hitting skills, backlash, darkflare, unstable core, javelin. Figure out the combo that works for you.

I tend to REALLY like fighting them with delayed timed burst. For example, i have found that inevitable detonation (or purifying light), imediatly followed with unstable core, followed by structured entropy, dark flare (x2) if needed, and finally a javelin combo does up to 90k damage with the right set up of gear on a target skeleton....all damage going off in 2 seconds of each other. Duebto the way sorcs go into offense and defense switches every six seconds if timed properly will wreck them, if they are tri shield stacked, you get two shield down, in which case you spam dark flare right after the javelin.

Now i know not many players play magplar other than heal specs or sweeps spam. But if you attemp to time burst and play against them the way you were meant to, youll be ight.

Biggest problem with magsorcs are that they are the only spec that relies on such heavy shielding, meaning most players try their typical combos they would use against another class and spec and expect it to work

Lokey0024

Id say give harness a 20 second duration back but a bashable cast time and reclassification of Major Shielding that cannot stack with dampen.

Iyas

dont let harness + hardened stack and no bone skeleton with shields

kyle.wilson

I don't know any sorcs that use healing ward, most use Hardened ward and Magicka Harness. (With the rise of pet builds the other morph of hardened ward)
I do know several magblades that use both healing ward and harness magicka though.

But, the people that have issues with sorc shields are usually the ones seen on 1vx videos not cc or stunning the player. You cannot build a char that is just dps in pvp, you also need situational skills on bar as well.

Derra

Make shields susceptible to armor and spell penetration

How about not letting shields stack...

Otherwise. You can penetrate my 0 resist shields all you want.

ToRelax

Make shields susceptible to armor and spell penetration

Derra wrote: »

How about not letting shields stack...

Otherwise. You can penetrate my 0 resist shields all you want.

This. But lol, go ahead balancing my shields like that.

Juhasow

Sharee wrote: »

Option 7: make shields susceptible to debuffs, the way heals are. For the same reason battle spirit lowers both heal strength and shield strength - they are both a variant of "healing", one reactive, one proactive.

But that would also require making shields susceptible to healing buffs the way heals are so many builds that dont have healing debuffs would fail against sorcs in Malubeth.

Qbiken

Sorc perfectly balanced....lmao

Valen_Byte

Shield Breaker set.

Heavy attack, poison inject, light attack x10. Rinse repeat.

Juhasow

Best way to lower effectivness of shieldsstacking sorcerers ? Lower their burst potential and increase skill costs overall so that way sorc need to choose between ballancing his burst dmg , resource managment and shield strenght.
Morrowind is step in right direction at this point. We'll see is that enough or we'll need additional changes.

Qbiken

BEst way to solve it?+ the upcoming pathnotes xD

Sharee

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Option 7: make shields susceptible to debuffs, the way heals are. For the same reason battle spirit lowers both heal strength and shield strength - they are both a variant of "healing", one reactive, one proactive.

But that would also require making shields susceptible to healing buffs the way heals are so many builds that dont have healing debuffs would fail against sorcs in Malubeth.

I meant making shields susceptible to debuffs like heals are. Not necessarily to the same debuffs. Shields would get their own buff/debuff category, one that would be balanced separately, and malubeth would not affect it.

MrTtheDK

Sorcs are going to take a huge hit sustain wise with the CP changes. Just need to be patient. They don't need more nerfs.

Juhasow

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Option 7: make shields susceptible to debuffs, the way heals are. For the same reason battle spirit lowers both heal strength and shield strength - they are both a variant of "healing", one reactive, one proactive.

But that would also require making shields susceptible to healing buffs the way heals are so many builds that dont have healing debuffs would fail against sorcs in Malubeth.

I meant making shields susceptible to debuffs like heals are. Not necessarily to the same debuffs. Shields would get their own buff/debuff category, one that would be balanced separately, and malubeth would not affect it.

Another buff/debuff category ? Who would have anough space on bars to slot additional skills ? Sorc could get even more adventage of it then they have now if they would get buff category that increases shield strenght.

grim_tactics

There is nothing wrong with Sorc shields.

All of you that think there is just need to get better at PvP and stop trying to ruin a class because you can't win a 1v1 in a game that isn't balanced for 1v1.

Trying to make a class unplayable in PvE because your feelings get hurt in PvP. L2P

Adernath

Emma_Overload wrote: »

None of the above. Leave Sorcs alone!

Exactly. I am sick of these threads going on and on on the forum!

The issue is not the shields, it is at best the heavy armor meta. If you run around in light armor you need shields. End of discussion.

Adernath

And something to add:

Sorcs have only 1 shield. Acutally I am not even using that in PvE, I use the shield(s) from the light armor and resto staff. I think the OP has no idea what he is talking about.

GrigorijMalahevich

Allow only two shields at the same time.

Araviel2

it is hard to see how they can be balanced as most changes to shields would screw us sorcs who don't shieldstack hard, and force us into the shieldstacking meta instead to compensate, and that's not good.

the only thing i can see as a solution is to disallow shieldstacking all together. preferably by adding a major/minor buff to shields that can not be stacked.
like for example adding major protection to both anulment and harden, and nerf the hp of of them both a little to compensate.
doing this would also solve the issue with Pirate Skeleton and shield stacking.

Floki_Vilgerdarson

As someone mentioned above, sorcs are going to have to balance resources between keeping their shields up and doing damage. They can be tanky or do burst damage, but doing both will take better resource management.

Either way the patch notes are the Nerf you are looking for.

Floki

Sharee

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Option 7: make shields susceptible to debuffs, the way heals are. For the same reason battle spirit lowers both heal strength and shield strength - they are both a variant of "healing", one reactive, one proactive.

But that would also require making shields susceptible to healing buffs the way heals are so many builds that dont have healing debuffs would fail against sorcs in Malubeth.

I meant making shields susceptible to debuffs like heals are. Not necessarily to the same debuffs. Shields would get their own buff/debuff category, one that would be balanced separately, and malubeth would not affect it.

Another buff/debuff category ? Who would have anough space on bars to slot additional skills ?

The debuffs could be attached to already existing skills.

Juhasow wrote: »

Sorc could get even more adventage of it then they have now if they would get buff category that increases shield strenght.

That would depend on the availability of the buffs/debuffs to the various classes.

Waffennacht

They will be nerfed, in about 3 months after Morrowind, it's a pattern, I'm gonna guess at that point NBs will be buffed to the point of "OP" status.

Look at the trend people, not a single item, set, class, race, or dungeon that has been complained about gone unchanged. Literally the only things not be changed are bugs.

It does take time, I'll grant that, but every QQ thread has achieved results, for good or bad it happens