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[IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
need explanation about Sorc op mainly PvP
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at onceI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at once
I was taking about pvp.
so then only thing what I saw on pvp is stam sorc tanking some player trying to catch him and just spamming dark deal and then killing everyone who can and again run away alive
mag sorc with stacked shields similar, tanking some player, killem them, again stacking shields, streaking etc and just untouchable
teamplar in this place withll tank some, maybe will also kill someone but wont run away, finally he will die without help and when will come more enemies
dk similial
nb will play more with cat and mouse instead of tanking but it will end very fast wil just det pot, mage light, reapers mark and many other counters
I have sen some duels also
sorc agains templar, templar was very often under 50% health and was forced to spam often BoL while sorc was very rarely under 50% health because of shields almost nonstop up
dk similiar
nb was in hide when it was working and just bursting sorc but then he must at fist burst very fast his shields and then very fast burst his health to kill him but more often nb was forced to go into hide to heal because all hits was landing straight into his health and it was higher chance for sorc to burst nb when sorc was hard to destroy his shields at 1st to finally deal damage into his health
You do know there are lots of people that can do that? On all classes. Yeah, i think this is just you not noticing when someone is good and just saying it's the class.
With this logic I could say - "OMG mag dk is soooooo op!!!!!!! Did you see sypher just kill 10 guys??????"
It's not a case of an op class, it's a good player behind a good build which is inside of a class.
there are different ways of playing each class, both against and when you are one. So don't go on a tangent about how sorc kills every class, most likely the other person was not playing against the sorc properly. On my Templar, most of the time I have no issues dealing with a sorc. If they are a Stam sorc then you just get them below 50 easily through cc and jabs then cc again and beam them. Magsorcs just need to be cc'd so they can't shield them just burst them down.
mhm, give me then beam on any other class to burn fast those stam sorcs
about mag sorc and cc...lol, I have doing it always and just thos who are good they are break free very fast and also burst with balist ulti with cc them is not helping to mcuh while only with this I have any chance to burst his shield
and to good player...today I have some dueled with friends, one of them is very good in dk, sorc and nb and now learning playing with templar
and what was on duels? with templar because he was learing he los evry fight again my other friend with sorc
on nb was not much different, just very fast bursting nb with cc while burn sorc's shields also with cc is so hard and then melth his health when he is now cc immune
on magdk it was just long fight without end
and when he was reloged sorc then he didnt have bigger problem to kill my other friend who was dualed only on sorc.
so what we can see from this? not much experienced guy as someone other had no problem to kill most of other classes or just say alive win fight agains experienced mag dk but he died so fast in fight with more experienced sorc0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »@IzakiBrotherSs in duel you are some right...but in open cyrodil sorc stam>sorc mag>every other class
espcially stam sorc is winnig because of dark deal while he is on max stat food in heavy with 600 stam regen, tankly as dk/templar and hitting very hard with free heal from crit surge from long range hurricane
I'd place Stamblades on the same level as MagSorcs and put those 2 first up for open world. Stam Sorc in open world... You have to Dark Deal every 10 seconds, if you're up against a few magicka sorcs you're never going to pull that Dark Deal off cause they are just as mobile as you are and you don't have any snares... As see the Crit Surge isn't as effective as Major Mending due to the fact that you don't have to be within hitting range, means you can be running around a tree and be already healed up to full. Nor do Stam Sorcs have any decent burst... Stam DK when built properly has insanely high ultimate generation, which ensures high burst AND resource management. Stam DKs also use max stat food. Overall, Stam DK is easier and just more effective IMO, in pretty much every aspect. What you lose out in mobility you gain through easier resource management, higher burst potential meaning quicker fights, better healing (Draconic Power passive on top of that Mending).
the only burst from dk what I have seen was only stacked minimum 2 proc sets, without them dk was only great tank
stam sorc have no problem to spam rolldodge in heavy with vigor etc because he have dark deal mainly to return huge amount of stamina combined with constitution from heavy armor0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@EldritchPenguin
1) maybe delayd, but with frag proc you can with until good moment to explode with curse etc, you can also treak before this to stun uour opponend to cast frag on him, if all with shot at once its burst like nb ganging if not better because at 20% health its insta kill with mages wrath
2)their shield are powerfull, normally they are stcaking 2 without healing wart and they have aound 20k noncritable shield and then max 4 seconds to recast 1st shield if wont be destroyed before and jsut while he is spamming shield he still have chance to proc stunning fragment and ofc curse applied on enemy waiting to just explode and then his enemy is forted to go into more defensive
3)as I wrote sorc shields are powerful and he is taking just 1 target to burst downe in 1vx and when killed he is just taking next target to burst
and stam sorc will just tank and heal from group attacking him and also kill them in single bursts with some aoe stuns from streak and dawnbreaker etc0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorcerer is probably the only class in eso that can go full dps and still be a tank. 90% of cyrodiil population are sorceres for a reason (btw. what kind of class balance it is ? )
Spamming only 3 skills:
1 - Streak - to stun other players and escape (if necessary) faster than a sprinting mount.
2 - Haunting Curse - to deal enormous dmg (twice) just by spamming 1 button (basically it is fire & forget skill, and additionally it puts you out of stealth - even if it there is nothing like that in skill description).
3 - Conjured Ward (and its mophs) - This is just hilarious skill. It allows you tu have a stack-able dmg shield that absorbs ridiculously high dmg. 15 people chases you ? No problem ! Just spam this dmg shield and they can't do nothing about it...
In short: sorcerer has highest magical dps, good if not best mobility, dmg shield so you are still tanky (and you don't sacrifice DPS for it) and additionally you can easily stun other players (for comparison NB's Ambush ussed to stun other players but it was "too much" and now it only snares).1 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭they have aound 20k noncritable shield and then max 4 seconds to recast 1st shield if wont be destroyed before and jsut while he is spamming shield he still have chance to proc stunning fragment and ofc curse applied on enemy waiting to just explode and then his enemy is forted to go into more defensive
You mean while it's perfectly okay in your mind that Sorc has to go full defensive you don't ever want to have to go at all defensive.
You just want to play a gank build and be able to kill everything fast.3 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭streak, the best reliable mobility skill, no any other class have that good mobility as sorc with his big survivability with his shields and with still great sustain on regens, with most of sorcs as I have meet almost none of them was burned out of stam or mag in very long fights
Just wait until they fix streak if you think its OP now...
Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
SJD_Phoenix✭✭✭@Betheny not much....I on glass cannon ganging nb or tankly dk or templar I have not much problem against dk, templar, nb ofc easiest to kill while stam sorc just dont need any part of brain to fight, just spam 1-2 offensive skills, dodge/block and spam dark deal,
mag sorc for me is just op with noncritable stacked shields, everytime when I will down him to finishers he now is cc immune after break free and what? 3 stacked shields worth maybe 30k+- becaus eof additional healing wart scaling on health lost and rest shield to aabsord damage befoe healing ward will expire to heal him into full health
How many global cooldowns does it cost him to keep those 3 shields up do you suppose (I'll make it easy for you, that's 3 global cooldowns and that's assuming you haven't destroyed any of those shields at all), those shields only last 6 seconds.
You're just angry your glass canon ganking build isn't working vs your opponent.
I don't get why this guy struggles vs sorcs anyway. Literally the only thing in a sorcs playbook that can help them vs a ganker is defensive rune.
If, as a nightblade, you're thick enough to gank someone when their shields are up, you deserve to get both f*****k in the *** and bagged for days.
This is coming from someone who spent 18 months ganking on Stam NB.3 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭they have aound 20k noncritable shield and then max 4 seconds to recast 1st shield if wont be destroyed before and jsut while he is spamming shield he still have chance to proc stunning fragment and ofc curse applied on enemy waiting to just explode and then his enemy is forted to go into more defensive
You mean while it's perfectly okay in your mind that Sorc has to go full defensive you don't ever want to have to go at all defensive.
You just want to play a gank build and be able to kill everything fast.
no, I dont meant to kill everything fast from gang, I just mean they are stacking 2 shields with 20k damage shield and while its up he is bursting you while then you need to heal this everythin, block etc when if you burst sorc and you will finally get throgh their shields then they aare going into more defensive and with healing wart they ar gatting to 30k damage shield from which you wont *** through into hist health to finish him withot shieldbreaker, he will heal again to 100% health with jsut healing wart and crit surge damageing to you while his rest 2 shield will be nonstop up1 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Dark_Aether wrote: »Shields
- You cannot crit them and player can spam them as soon as they go down; and we're talking 25k in PVP/50k in PVE
Dark Conversion
- Why the heck an ability heals and restores 4k+ magicka? With a little bit of stam regen, you have infinite magicka sustain, which is why Amberplasm is op on them
Curse
- That really did not need the buff ZOS
Mage's Fury
- It actually goes off before the animation
Pets
- Not a problem in open world PVP but stupid op in PVE, and makes it impossible to target the player in 1v1
I'd like to add emplosion in regards to stam sorcs, it goes off probaby 9 out of ten times when fighting stam sorcs. And hits me for 5k to 8k passive no skill execute.1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭they have aound 20k noncritable shield and then max 4 seconds to recast 1st shield if wont be destroyed before and jsut while he is spamming shield he still have chance to proc stunning fragment and ofc curse applied on enemy waiting to just explode and then his enemy is forted to go into more defensive
You mean while it's perfectly okay in your mind that Sorc has to go full defensive you don't ever want to have to go at all defensive.
You just want to play a gank build and be able to kill everything fast.
no, I dont meant to kill everything fast from gang, I just mean they are stacking 2 shields with 20k damage shield and while its up he is bursting you while then you need to heal this everythin, block etc when if you burst sorc and you will finally get throgh their shields then they aare going into more defensive and with healing wart they ar gatting to 30k damage shield from which you wont *** through into hist health to finish him withot shieldbreaker, he will heal again to 100% health with jsut healing wart and crit surge damageing to you while his rest 2 shield will be nonstop up
In other words, you failed to kill a Sorc after bursting through his shields, although you did bring him low enough to create a big healing ward. After surviving this situation your opponent went into offense again. How very terrible.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they have aound 20k noncritable shield and then max 4 seconds to recast 1st shield if wont be destroyed before and jsut while he is spamming shield he still have chance to proc stunning fragment and ofc curse applied on enemy waiting to just explode and then his enemy is forted to go into more defensive
You mean while it's perfectly okay in your mind that Sorc has to go full defensive you don't ever want to have to go at all defensive.
You just want to play a gank build and be able to kill everything fast.
no, I dont meant to kill everything fast from gang, I just mean they are stacking 2 shields with 20k damage shield and while its up he is bursting you while then you need to heal this everythin, block etc when if you burst sorc and you will finally get throgh their shields then they aare going into more defensive and with healing wart they ar gatting to 30k damage shield from which you wont *** through into hist health to finish him withot shieldbreaker, he will heal again to 100% health with jsut healing wart and crit surge damageing to you while his rest 2 shield will be nonstop up
You keep trying to get through his shields, that's your prob.
If you're facing a typical meta sorc, they run their wards backbar. This means when they are at full health they usually have maybe 2secs before shield is gone (maybe 3) but he'll go on the offensive. At this moment he is most vulnerable.
He'll take 1 or 2hits before going defensive. You attack, THEN CC, then while he is breaking you DboS + execute or leap or incap or beam.
Even IF he manages to survive, he has NO active heal except healing ward. Meaning he will stay in execute range Or defensive mode. Major Defile is huge here, more than likely SOME of the healing ward will heal, if you played correctly you went so offensive that the ward is either small (from damage) or he is out of magicka from spamming wards.
Either way, once a mag sorc is on his heels a well timed CC is enough to make it where he cannot make a come back.
Also, a mSorc has no access to defile in any meaningful way (meta sorc) so if their curse wrath frag can't kill you (your own wards or heavy armor plus hots plus troll king plus healing ward) they can't win unless you over extend.1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ToRelax @Waffennacht give then please option how to burn minium 20k noncritable shield and then minimum 20k health on just 2 seconds before this sorc will make break free and again spam shield, I dont see it to burn him without help with proc sets or just shieldbreaker0 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Shields last 6 seconds.@ToRelax @Waffennacht give then please option how to burn minium 20k noncritable shield and then minimum 20k health on just 2 seconds before this sorc will make break free and again spam shield, I dont see it to burn him without help with proc sets or just shieldbreaker
You have 5 fingers.
if you count to 5 and CC them, where do the shields go? If you don't know how to burst through 21,540 of the squishiest HP around after that, not even Wrobel can help you.
Pro tip: All sorc dmg is telegraphed.Edited by HoloYoitsu on 7 April 2017 07:545 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Shields last 6 seconds.@ToRelax @Waffennacht give then please option how to burn minium 20k noncritable shield and then minimum 20k health on just 2 seconds before this sorc will make break free and again spam shield, I dont see it to burn him without help with proc sets or just shieldbreaker
You have 5 fingers.
if you count to 5 and CC them, where do the shields go? If you don't know how to burst through 21,540 of the squishiest HP around after that, not even Wrobel can help you.
Pro tip: All sorc dmg is telegraphed.
mam, squishiest hp lol, maybe but this is behind strong shield with which is problem to burn at once with healt an more squishy are nightblades with which I dont have any problem on any class to kill them, the easies kills on fast combos are nightblades, then sorcs but without shields but I dont have seen any sorc without his strong shields1 -
Fodore✭✭✭✭
just say alive win fight agains experienced mag dk but he died so fast in fight with more experienced sorcI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at onceI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at once
I was taking about pvp.
so then only thing what I saw on pvp is stam sorc tanking some player trying to catch him and just spamming dark deal and then killing everyone who can and again run away alive
mag sorc with stacked shields similar, tanking some player, killem them, again stacking shields, streaking etc and just untouchable
teamplar in this place withll tank some, maybe will also kill someone but wont run away, finally he will die without help and when will come more enemies
dk similial
nb will play more with cat and mouse instead of tanking but it will end very fast wil just det pot, mage light, reapers mark and many other counters
I have sen some duels also
sorc agains templar, templar was very often under 50% health and was forced to spam often BoL while sorc was very rarely under 50% health because of shields almost nonstop up
dk similiar
nb was in hide when it was working and just bursting sorc but then he must at fist burst very fast his shields and then very fast burst his health to kill him but more often nb was forced to go into hide to heal because all hits was landing straight into his health and it was higher chance for sorc to burst nb when sorc was hard to destroy his shields at 1st to finally deal damage into his health
You do know there are lots of people that can do that? On all classes. Yeah, i think this is just you not noticing when someone is good and just saying it's the class.
With this logic I could say - "OMG mag dk is soooooo op!!!!!!! Did you see sypher just kill 10 guys??????"
It's not a case of an op class, it's a good player behind a good build which is inside of a class.
there are different ways of playing each class, both against and when you are one. So don't go on a tangent about how sorc kills every class, most likely the other person was not playing against the sorc properly. On my Templar, most of the time I have no issues dealing with a sorc. If they are a Stam sorc then you just get them below 50 easily through cc and jabs then cc again and beam them. Magsorcs just need to be cc'd so they can't shield them just burst them down.
You basically just said a more experienced player is beating a bit so good player, the better player just so happens to be a sorc. I rest my case. That should happen.
And also you said about them cc breaking then putting shields back up, well you know they will run out of Stam pretty fast if you keep cc'ing them... dead sorc and you understand that sorc is not op.
You've had more than enough replies to this thread to understand that sorc
Isn't op, yet you fail to understand it so i dont really see any point of trying to convince you that sorc isn't op anymore.
Edited by Fodore on 7 April 2017 08:49Before judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.After that who cares?They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.4 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭
just say alive win fight agains experienced mag dk but he died so fast in fight with more experienced sorcI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at onceI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at once
I was taking about pvp.
so then only thing what I saw on pvp is stam sorc tanking some player trying to catch him and just spamming dark deal and then killing everyone who can and again run away alive
mag sorc with stacked shields similar, tanking some player, killem them, again stacking shields, streaking etc and just untouchable
teamplar in this place withll tank some, maybe will also kill someone but wont run away, finally he will die without help and when will come more enemies
dk similial
nb will play more with cat and mouse instead of tanking but it will end very fast wil just det pot, mage light, reapers mark and many other counters
I have sen some duels also
sorc agains templar, templar was very often under 50% health and was forced to spam often BoL while sorc was very rarely under 50% health because of shields almost nonstop up
dk similiar
nb was in hide when it was working and just bursting sorc but then he must at fist burst very fast his shields and then very fast burst his health to kill him but more often nb was forced to go into hide to heal because all hits was landing straight into his health and it was higher chance for sorc to burst nb when sorc was hard to destroy his shields at 1st to finally deal damage into his health
You do know there are lots of people that can do that? On all classes. Yeah, i think this is just you not noticing when someone is good and just saying it's the class.
With this logic I could say - "OMG mag dk is soooooo op!!!!!!! Did you see sypher just kill 10 guys??????"
It's not a case of an op class, it's a good player behind a good build which is inside of a class.
there are different ways of playing each class, both against and when you are one. So don't go on a tangent about how sorc kills every class, most likely the other person was not playing against the sorc properly. On my Templar, most of the time I have no issues dealing with a sorc. If they are a Stam sorc then you just get them below 50 easily through cc and jabs then cc again and beam them. Magsorcs just need to be cc'd so they can't shield them just burst them down.
You basically just said a more experienced player is beating a bit so good player, the better player just so happens to be a sorc. I rest my case. That should happen.
And also you said about them cc breaking then putting shields back up, well you know they will run out of Stam pretty fast if you keep cc'ing them... dead sorc and you understand that sorc is not op.
You've had more than enough replies to this thread to understand that sorc
Isn't op, yet you fail to understand it so i dont really see any point of trying to convince you that sorc isn't op anymore.
Sigh,in theory everything make sense,but do u even PvP? As I said in another thread, I'm a dk stamina only who recently tried msorc.
1 Getting through my shield
I'm not experienced as a sorc but it's quite easy to understands that you have to put hardened on your main bar and casting it every time it expires (usually every 2 rotation). In four days of PvP I've been without shield up like 10 minutes totally. So please don't say "wait 6seconds that burst" because refreshing shield is such a basic mechanic that even I could understand.
2 burn they're stamina
I never,NEVER ran out of stamina. With tristat food and tri stat pot I get more stamina that I need.
3 Of course,many time I died but it was only my fault and my lack of experience with the class.
4 the damage is CRAZY.
Once you learn how to time your burst everyone will melt,especially medium armor wearers. 10kfragment+7k curse + 8k mage's wrath in 1 second how you're supposed to mitigate that?
5 group play
That's where I had a blast and started loving the class. It's the best class in small scaling hands down. Roots spam,negates,destro ulti and unlockable curse,you have everything you need to counter the current "I'm unskilled so ill just permablock" meta.
Concluding, like I said in another OP sorc thread (there's a reason why they're so common) I don't think sorc needs a nerf,nobody will steal your toy don't worry,but I think zeni should seriously consider buffing classes like magnb and medium armor wearers survivability.2 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
just say alive win fight agains experienced mag dk but he died so fast in fight with more experienced sorcI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at onceI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at once
I was taking about pvp.
so then only thing what I saw on pvp is stam sorc tanking some player trying to catch him and just spamming dark deal and then killing everyone who can and again run away alive
mag sorc with stacked shields similar, tanking some player, killem them, again stacking shields, streaking etc and just untouchable
teamplar in this place withll tank some, maybe will also kill someone but wont run away, finally he will die without help and when will come more enemies
dk similial
nb will play more with cat and mouse instead of tanking but it will end very fast wil just det pot, mage light, reapers mark and many other counters
I have sen some duels also
sorc agains templar, templar was very often under 50% health and was forced to spam often BoL while sorc was very rarely under 50% health because of shields almost nonstop up
dk similiar
nb was in hide when it was working and just bursting sorc but then he must at fist burst very fast his shields and then very fast burst his health to kill him but more often nb was forced to go into hide to heal because all hits was landing straight into his health and it was higher chance for sorc to burst nb when sorc was hard to destroy his shields at 1st to finally deal damage into his health
You do know there are lots of people that can do that? On all classes. Yeah, i think this is just you not noticing when someone is good and just saying it's the class.
With this logic I could say - "OMG mag dk is soooooo op!!!!!!! Did you see sypher just kill 10 guys??????"
It's not a case of an op class, it's a good player behind a good build which is inside of a class.
there are different ways of playing each class, both against and when you are one. So don't go on a tangent about how sorc kills every class, most likely the other person was not playing against the sorc properly. On my Templar, most of the time I have no issues dealing with a sorc. If they are a Stam sorc then you just get them below 50 easily through cc and jabs then cc again and beam them. Magsorcs just need to be cc'd so they can't shield them just burst them down.
You basically just said a more experienced player is beating a bit so good player, the better player just so happens to be a sorc. I rest my case. That should happen.
And also you said about them cc breaking then putting shields back up, well you know they will run out of Stam pretty fast if you keep cc'ing them... dead sorc and you understand that sorc is not op.
You've had more than enough replies to this thread to understand that sorc
Isn't op, yet you fail to understand it so i dont really see any point of trying to convince you that sorc isn't op anymore.
I just wrote in post before 1 just good player, not very experienced was easily killing more experienced nb, teamplar or dk without lossing while he loss agains sorc who was on those other defeated classes0 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Having your shields split between front/back bar works nice in low pressure fights where you don't actually need your shields stacked constantly to avoid being burst down. When you actually need to maintain shield stack and be mobile, you'll find yourself screwed over as soon as your wep swap gets delayed or lagged out (fun fact, Deep Breath can interrupt wep swap).1 Getting through my shield
I'm not experienced as a sorc but it's quite easy to understands that you have to put hardened on your main bar and casting it every time it expires (usually every 2 rotation). In four days of PvP I've been without shield up like 10 minutes totally. So please don't say "wait 6seconds that burst" because refreshing shield is such a basic mechanic that even I could understand.
Your claim is mathematically unfounded. Allow me to demonstrate, we will use a 3 minute fight for reference:2 burn they're stamina
I never,NEVER ran out of stamina. With tristat food and tri stat pot I get more stamina that I need.- Your base stam pool is 14,464
- Base stam regen is 750 (37 points in mooncalf + vamp, other sorcs will tend to have less), 853 w/ pot active.
- Base CC break cost is 4,872. I have 37 points in tumbling so my cost is 4,409.
- CC immunity lasts 7 seconds.
- Base block cost is 2160.
- Base dodge roll cost is 3,654.
In reality, outside of a dueling environment, you are forced to expend stam through block & dodge to stay alive, even as a mag sorc. Saying you never run out of stam only tells me that you aren't fighting very skilled opponents.
Sorc also has the absolute most telegraphed and predictable damage rotation of any class.4 the damage is CRAZY.
Once you learn how to time your burst everyone will melt,especially medium armor wearers. 10kfragment+7k curse + 8k mage's wrath in 1 second how you're supposed to mitigate that?- Frags: When their hands are glowing, block or dodge. You don't even need to bother looking for that anymore, Miat's addon will tell you if there's an incoming Frag.
- Curse: Purgeable. When they put it on you, count to 3 and block or dodge the inevitable Frag.
- Fury: Purgeable. Lowest threshold execute in the game, triggers at 20%.
Edited by HoloYoitsu on 7 April 2017 10:073 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@HoloYoitsu everything what you postac what is purgable its only by templar because nobody normal have slotted very expensive pvp purge on cyrodil without very rare good zerg as zerg squad etc
and Miat's addon isnt finally disabled? but if he now just work in other way...at all everyo other addon which telling you when to block, dodge etc i like cheat
and to stam cost of break free etc utility on mag builds...do you ever pvp? its not problem to have always stamina for break free if you know how to play0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mmm they're only op in the hands of a fairly skilled player imo. I think it can just be difficult to deal with their abilities. As a stam DK player I find that I have a really hard time if I'm against an evenly matched sorc. They tend to just be able to keep insane shields up, have a lot of regen, and spam attacks from far away until frags procs. And idk if it's just me but dragon scales doesn't seem to reflect frags. Maybe it's lag though and my scales are wearing off before it regeisters. But your run of the mill sorc? Forget it, they drop like a bag of rocks.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ToRelax Waffennacht give then please option how to burn minium 20k noncritable shield and then minimum 20k health on just 2 seconds before this sorc will make break free and again spam shield, I dont see it to burn him without help with proc sets or just shieldbreaker
You do NOT kill an even mediocre Sorc player 1v1 who is entirely focusing on his defense, that is shieldstacking. However, the Sorc in your example did try to kill you and you did get him low on HP. When he is using other spells than wards, he will not have a permanent shieldstack anywhere near 20k. If you can, time your burst after at least one shield runs out. If he doesn't let that happen, at least deal some damage on the shieldstack before trying to burst.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be honest, I think all classes are pretty balanced right now. I've watched a lot of duels and open world fights and I've seen all classes are able to beat each other.
Some classes take a while to get used to how it works, and generally a sorc is pretty easy to play tbh. Stick with the class long enough and it will all become second nature to you. A lot of people say magblade is underwhelming, I disagree one of the best players on my server uses magblade and he's beast. I've a seen people to good with every class.
0 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc mobility isn't that great on magicka sorc !
Chasing a sorc is extremely easy, you just need a gap closer, and use it when he streak, sorc mobility gone.
Any medium armor build using a bow can be mobile like sorc, mith major expedition + sprint + dodge.
Magicka NB have better mobility, because the best escape skill is shadow Image, if play well, you can escape for 99% of situations.
Don't forget streak can't be spamming, cuz 50% more cost each time you use it if you don't wait 4s.
The magicka sorc mobily have counter play, it's just a L2P issue4 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't argue with the willfully ignorant, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.Fear is the Mindkiller4 -
Fodore✭✭✭✭
just say alive win fight agains experienced mag dk but he died so fast in fight with more experienced sorcI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at onceI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at once
I was taking about pvp.
so then only thing what I saw on pvp is stam sorc tanking some player trying to catch him and just spamming dark deal and then killing everyone who can and again run away alive
mag sorc with stacked shields similar, tanking some player, killem them, again stacking shields, streaking etc and just untouchable
teamplar in this place withll tank some, maybe will also kill someone but wont run away, finally he will die without help and when will come more enemies
dk similial
nb will play more with cat and mouse instead of tanking but it will end very fast wil just det pot, mage light, reapers mark and many other counters
I have sen some duels also
sorc agains templar, templar was very often under 50% health and was forced to spam often BoL while sorc was very rarely under 50% health because of shields almost nonstop up
dk similiar
nb was in hide when it was working and just bursting sorc but then he must at fist burst very fast his shields and then very fast burst his health to kill him but more often nb was forced to go into hide to heal because all hits was landing straight into his health and it was higher chance for sorc to burst nb when sorc was hard to destroy his shields at 1st to finally deal damage into his health
You do know there are lots of people that can do that? On all classes. Yeah, i think this is just you not noticing when someone is good and just saying it's the class.
With this logic I could say - "OMG mag dk is soooooo op!!!!!!! Did you see sypher just kill 10 guys??????"
It's not a case of an op class, it's a good player behind a good build which is inside of a class.
there are different ways of playing each class, both against and when you are one. So don't go on a tangent about how sorc kills every class, most likely the other person was not playing against the sorc properly. On my Templar, most of the time I have no issues dealing with a sorc. If they are a Stam sorc then you just get them below 50 easily through cc and jabs then cc again and beam them. Magsorcs just need to be cc'd so they can't shield them just burst them down.
You basically just said a more experienced player is beating a bit so good player, the better player just so happens to be a sorc. I rest my case. That should happen.
And also you said about them cc breaking then putting shields back up, well you know they will run out of Stam pretty fast if you keep cc'ing them... dead sorc and you understand that sorc is not op.
You've had more than enough replies to this thread to understand that sorc
Isn't op, yet you fail to understand it so i dont really see any point of trying to convince you that sorc isn't op anymore.
Sigh,in theory everything make sense,but do u even PvP? As I said in another thread, I'm a dk stamina only who recently tried msorc.
1 Getting through my shield
I'm not experienced as a sorc but it's quite easy to understands that you have to put hardened on your main bar and casting it every time it expires (usually every 2 rotation). In four days of PvP I've been without shield up like 10 minutes totally. So please don't say "wait 6seconds that burst" because refreshing shield is such a basic mechanic that even I could understand.
2 burn they're stamina
I never,NEVER ran out of stamina. With tristat food and tri stat pot I get more stamina that I need.
3 Of course,many time I died but it was only my fault and my lack of experience with the class.
4 the damage is CRAZY.
Once you learn how to time your burst everyone will melt,especially medium armor wearers. 10kfragment+7k curse + 8k mage's wrath in 1 second how you're supposed to mitigate that?
5 group play
That's where I had a blast and started loving the class. It's the best class in small scaling hands down. Roots spam,negates,destro ulti and unlockable curse,you have everything you need to counter the current "I'm unskilled so ill just permablock" meta.
Concluding, like I said in another OP sorc thread (there's a reason why they're so common) I don't think sorc needs a nerf,nobody will steal your toy don't worry,but I think zeni should seriously consider buffing classes like magnb and medium armor wearers survivability.
just say alive win fight agains experienced mag dk but he died so fast in fight with more experienced sorcI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at onceI wouldn't say it's OP, just the easiest to play well. It's also versatile and has nice passives and abilities for stamina and magicka. You can tank as one, Dps as one, support as one (not heal, support, they are 2 different things), you CAN play a healer on it but it won't be as effective as dk or Templar.
So yeah, just an all round very good class.
I see you are talking about pve while I mainly about pvp where I see how stam sorc is more tankly than dk and have much better burst with mobility than dk as stam sorc and mag sorc which also have better survivability than dk/templar with his shields and always reliable mobility which is viable on on sorcs and nb but on nb it depend if someone will use det pot or reapers matk then you have no mobility tu run away on nb, I just see how sorc stam and magica have everything what is need on pvp at once while any other class cant have this all at once
I was taking about pvp.
so then only thing what I saw on pvp is stam sorc tanking some player trying to catch him and just spamming dark deal and then killing everyone who can and again run away alive
mag sorc with stacked shields similar, tanking some player, killem them, again stacking shields, streaking etc and just untouchable
teamplar in this place withll tank some, maybe will also kill someone but wont run away, finally he will die without help and when will come more enemies
dk similial
nb will play more with cat and mouse instead of tanking but it will end very fast wil just det pot, mage light, reapers mark and many other counters
I have sen some duels also
sorc agains templar, templar was very often under 50% health and was forced to spam often BoL while sorc was very rarely under 50% health because of shields almost nonstop up
dk similiar
nb was in hide when it was working and just bursting sorc but then he must at fist burst very fast his shields and then very fast burst his health to kill him but more often nb was forced to go into hide to heal because all hits was landing straight into his health and it was higher chance for sorc to burst nb when sorc was hard to destroy his shields at 1st to finally deal damage into his health
You do know there are lots of people that can do that? On all classes. Yeah, i think this is just you not noticing when someone is good and just saying it's the class.
With this logic I could say - "OMG mag dk is soooooo op!!!!!!! Did you see sypher just kill 10 guys??????"
It's not a case of an op class, it's a good player behind a good build which is inside of a class.
there are different ways of playing each class, both against and when you are one. So don't go on a tangent about how sorc kills every class, most likely the other person was not playing against the sorc properly. On my Templar, most of the time I have no issues dealing with a sorc. If they are a Stam sorc then you just get them below 50 easily through cc and jabs then cc again and beam them. Magsorcs just need to be cc'd so they can't shield them just burst them down.
You basically just said a more experienced player is beating a bit so good player, the better player just so happens to be a sorc. I rest my case. That should happen.
And also you said about them cc breaking then putting shields back up, well you know they will run out of Stam pretty fast if you keep cc'ing them... dead sorc and you understand that sorc is not op.
You've had more than enough replies to this thread to understand that sorc
Isn't op, yet you fail to understand it so i dont really see any point of trying to convince you that sorc isn't op anymore.
Sigh,in theory everything make sense,but do u even PvP? As I said in another thread, I'm a dk stamina only who recently tried msorc.
1 Getting through my shield
I'm not experienced as a sorc but it's quite easy to understands that you have to put hardened on your main bar and casting it every time it expires (usually every 2 rotation). In four days of PvP I've been without shield up like 10 minutes totally. So please don't say "wait 6seconds that burst" because refreshing shield is such a basic mechanic that even I could understand.
2 burn they're stamina
I never,NEVER ran out of stamina. With tristat food and tri stat pot I get more stamina that I need.
3 Of course,many time I died but it was only my fault and my lack of experience with the class.
4 the damage is CRAZY.
Once you learn how to time your burst everyone will melt,especially medium armor wearers. 10kfragment+7k curse + 8k mage's wrath in 1 second how you're supposed to mitigate that?
5 group play
That's where I had a blast and started loving the class. It's the best class in small scaling hands down. Roots spam,negates,destro ulti and unlockable curse,you have everything you need to counter the current "I'm unskilled so ill just permablock" meta.
Concluding, like I said in another OP sorc thread (there's a reason why they're so common) I don't think sorc needs a nerf,nobody will steal your toy don't worry,but I think zeni should seriously consider buffing classes like magnb and medium armor wearers survivability.
I pretty much only pvp. I do some PvE to get my gear and stuff but primarily pvp. Magsorcs are more often than not in mostly light armour which means they are squishy, anyone with half good damage should be able to kill a shield and the sorc without needing to break for resources.
You say you never run out of stamina? Well then all I have to say to that is that whoever you are fighting isn't that good.
Yes they have good burst capability, but that can be countered. If you are aware that you are fighting a sorc then all you need to do is be more disciplined about your heals. once you have learned to play against a sorc, they really are not that difficult to kill. Annoying but not difficult.
Of course you have good players who will always be difficult to kill, whether it be on sorc or another class. Anyclass can be """""""""OP"""""""" if they have the right person behind it. I will admit, sorc is one of the easier classes to effectively play, but that does not make it op.
I will partly agree with you though that they are good for small scale, I wouldn't say the best, they are very good for those clutch situations where you are pushing, of a sorc drops a negate your life will be made so much easier.
Before judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.After that who cares?They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.2 -
rimmidimdim✭✭✭I've met a few new mag pet sorc builds last few days. They are hard for me at moment until I figure it out. I can't target the sorc. It's annoying. It feels unfair. 1v1 encounters.
The best players on a mag sorc is the most powerful build in the game. All other classes build for encunters with sorcs far more than any other class in game.
Does this mean mag sorc is op? Not necessarily. It just means they are the best build at the moment in the game.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc mobility isn't that great on magicka sorc !
Chasing a sorc is extremely easy, you just need a gap closer, and use it when he streak, sorc mobility gone.
Any medium armor build using a bow can be mobile like sorc, mith major expedition + sprint + dodge.
Magicka NB have better mobility, because the best escape skill is shadow Image, if play well, you can escape for 99% of situations.
Don't forget streak can't be spamming, cuz 50% more cost each time you use it if you don't wait 4s.
The magicka sorc mobily have counter play, it's just a L2P issue
Shadow image can only be used once and if you are snared you aren't getting away players will just run to your shade and cast an AOE to pull you out of stealth. Or the Xv1 nightblade who marks you but doesn't attack until you are out numbered will all put a end to magblade mobility. What makes streak more practical is it can be used multiple times in a row and doesn't require set up. So if you streak away and you get a nightblade spamming ambush he is over extending and you end up with a manageable fight of you vs 2 nightblades. Instead of you vs a zerg. I think it all depends on if you value getting kills or escaping.3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Everyone gives poor mNB a hard time... I'm absolutely loving mine in heavy armor... i mean he does have like the most insane passive healing ever.
Swallow Soul, Path, (passive minor just from slotting soul) the max health passive plus heavy passive, plus mutagen/rapids, soul triggers TK on the offensive. Healing Ward (could stack annulment on that too). With cheap Panacea the potion ult gain is huge.
Has instant burst (yes merciless is weird) but you have access to mass hysteria and very hard hitting ults. You have dots.
Now, however, if you're talkin more group play where you wouldn't want as much single target etc then maybe he has a harder time.
I dunno, maybe it's the sap tank version vs the mNB LA version?0
