fix magicka sorcs

KingJ · March 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Honestly so sick of the crying about Sorcs I wish they weren't changed at all. We fundamentally haven't changed at all as a class since DB

Destro buff: everyone has this

Storm atronach buff: damage is still pitiful and DB or meteor is still a better choice

Curse "buff": any good sorc will still immediately reapply the curse

Pirate skeleton: agree that it is OP, but is 10x better on a magplar

Destro ult: everyone has this, better on a magplar or mag Dk

Shields have not changed at all since DB, not sure why everyone is suddenly complaining about them

Almost every sorc is pigeonholed into using lich because without it our shields are too expensive to keep up. Because of the heavy armor meta, 80% of us have to use spinners

Magplars can facetank 15+ people but hey, lets complain about Sorcs who struggle to fight more then 2.

I have no trouble fighting Sorcs on my alts that I barley play, but people are somehow unable to fight them on their mains.

"Sorcs are OP in PvE too" anyone else seen that video of the 4 stam Sorcs kill valkyn skoria on his first platform? How about the stamblade that killed voriak solkin before he reached the crystals? Or the mag Dk that did maelstrom with heavy attacks?

Its funny, after DB when seeing a sorc was like seeing a unicorn, I got messages congratulating me for sticking with my sorc. Now I get messages from people calling me meta and FOTM for using an "overbuffed class"

Rant over lol

This isn't really a rant as it's insanely accurate

Extremely accurate. Most of the worst whining is coming from stamblades though to be honest. Without proc set one button kills, they need to work for AP now. And it turns out that many of them aren't nearly as good as they thought they were.

LAWl.

Anti_Virus · March 2017

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Half of AD on Xbox EU play sorcs.

That's all the confirmation we need they're too strong. AD always play the broken stuff.

Wait till there's no reduced cost CP so everyone is back in light and medium. Magica sorcs are going to so far ahead it'll be pointless playing anything else.

Like, I play magica NB and stamplar mostly. I was on my magica NB the other day and I fought mostly sorcs for two hours. How does zos honestly think classes are balanced? I felt so unbelievably gimped against a sorc it was downright disheartening.

First off, light armor is the same as nudity for protection. There's no way Templars and DK's are giving up heavy armor for that.

Stamina abilities cost less than Magicka to begin with, every stamina tree gets a 20% cost reduction passive for all of those abilities. Stamina will still be in an excellent spot, but they won't be able to block forever anymore. Just like sorcs won't be able to go all out and shield forever.

Although I agree that LA is bad for defense in terms of resistance, Heavy armor will be sh*t again because of no cost reduction something that LA and MA has.

Everyone looses the 16% costreduction - how is this worse for heavy armor than it is for light/med (except for multiplicative reduction - which to my understanding is bugged anyways)?

Edit: I could argue/explain why this is worse for light/med - but that´s more in depth.

Because when your skills are 2K- 3K plus resources( DK) and you aren't wearing Blk rose and get hit with a poison you will always be out of resources.

Poison cost increase is calculated of skills base cost. Has the same effect for heavy as it has for light/med.

Its worse for heavy since it has no base cost reduction.

thankyourat · March 2017

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Honestly so sick of the crying about Sorcs I wish they weren't changed at all. We fundamentally haven't changed at all as a class since DB

Destro buff: everyone has this

Storm atronach buff: damage is still pitiful and DB or meteor is still a better choice

Curse "buff": any good sorc will still immediately reapply the curse

Pirate skeleton: agree that it is OP, but is 10x better on a magplar

Destro ult: everyone has this, better on a magplar or mag Dk

Shields have not changed at all since DB, not sure why everyone is suddenly complaining about them

Almost every sorc is pigeonholed into using lich because without it our shields are too expensive to keep up. Because of the heavy armor meta, 80% of us have to use spinners

Magplars can facetank 15+ people but hey, lets complain about Sorcs who struggle to fight more then 2.

I have no trouble fighting Sorcs on my alts that I barley play, but people are somehow unable to fight them on their mains.

"Sorcs are OP in PvE too" anyone else seen that video of the 4 stam Sorcs kill valkyn skoria on his first platform? How about the stamblade that killed voriak solkin before he reached the crystals? Or the mag Dk that did maelstrom with heavy attacks?

Its funny, after DB when seeing a sorc was like seeing a unicorn, I got messages congratulating me for sticking with my sorc. Now I get messages from people calling me meta and FOTM for using an "overbuffed class"

Rant over lol

The sustain from lich needs to be nerfed it's too strong or maybe the magicka return from harness magicka needs to be nerfed. How expensive shields are is suppose to be a weakness. But it's completely covered up by lich and harness. add in pirate and it's completely impossible to beat a mag sorc who builds enough stamina sustain, at best you can hope for is a draw. Sorcs are being carried by this easy mode set up at the moment. If a players does to one person wearing pirate skeleton and stacking shields they did something wrong

Glamdring · March 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Have you actually played one?

To have wards (active defence) up you loose DPS, and sustain, and to have good wards you need a huge Magika pool so poor Stam / CC break...

If you cant kill a Sorc these days you doing something wrong.

LOL. Sorcs is easymode deluxe this patch. all pugs and newbs running it.

Glamdring · March 2017

well, nerf stam NBs, they are too OP, LOL. some in here are so far off its scary....

Anti_Virus · March 2017

JbSmooth wrote: »

Although I agree that LA is bad for defense in terms of resistance, Heavy armor will be sh*t again because of no cost reduction something that LA and MA has.

Wrong since the announcement of arena having no cp i have been spending a lot of time in the non cp campaign testing my builds and changing them accordingly, besides the low base stats DK & NB still has insane sustain and no issue with 1vx there with standard gear bs/br/agi -- tk for NB ofcs---as for my pet sorc i lost 7k mm thats all leaving me just under 52k mm in NON CP campaign and 150 less magicka recovery i can still maintain shields pets and skill with zero issues outside of magicka drain but that can make it hell if you not watching you duffs[/quote]
******************************************************
Please, don't use anecdotal claims as evidence.

TL:DR at bottom

Bring some facts, all you mag builds want is for heavy armor to be *** again, altho this is anecdotal during my experience with no CP almost no one wore heavy armor unless they were block tanks. Something that you people still QQ about. Warlord and Magican are integral CP starts that makes Heavy armor viable without out them it hurst builds that run them. Since it has no cost reduction or passive regen it relies on getting hit to get sustain which on its own is not good.

The typical argument that heavy has 'infinite sustain' is laughable because it fails to acknowledge that the primary sustain tool for most classes comes from class skills/ passives. As I tell most people Don't use Battle roar, Dark deal, repentance, or Siphoning attacks and don't use cost reduction in you CP star and sse how you 'infinitely sustain' in heavy armor.

Light Armor is fine in the PVE side it provides the most damage of all the armor types and great defense with the armor skill 'anulment' in PVP Light armor is exactly like it's described, light so it shouldn't provide any more protection than the other armors and yet still even in pvp deals more damage than Medium or Heavy while having great defence with shields. For medium armor this analysis goes even further since the passives have additional benefits to the armor skill line such as sneak passives, roll dodge passives ect. Still deals more damage than heavy although less than light.

LA, MA and HA are fine and perfectly balanced,
MA can use a little improvement in pve, but ofcourse people like you don't want balance you just want Elder robes online to return again repeating this same fraudulent phrase that Heavy armor is Meta claiming that its facts even though ZOS data proves your claims wrong time and time again, and unless you have data on your own to back up that claim its false. Zos may makes mistakes with balance in the past but they have common sense to know that the armor skills are balanced no matter how much you claim it isn't.

TL:DR
LA is for mages it provides the least protection but the most damage and is used most effectively as range, I.E mSorcs mNBs

MA is for Skirmishers that fight and evade the base armor values of medium is only 5% less effective than Heavys base armor values, with sneak cost reduction roll dodge cost reduction medium is for your hit and run play styles.

HA is for front line men/women to take the brunt on the damage its passives are all geared towards getting hit to be effective. HP passives and healing passives are there to help be a front line tank.

If you want to tank wear heavy, other wise the armors are balanced they are meant to function differently.

Minalan · March 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Honestly so sick of the crying about Sorcs I wish they weren't changed at all. We fundamentally haven't changed at all as a class since DB

Destro buff: everyone has this

Storm atronach buff: damage is still pitiful and DB or meteor is still a better choice

Curse "buff": any good sorc will still immediately reapply the curse

Pirate skeleton: agree that it is OP, but is 10x better on a magplar

Destro ult: everyone has this, better on a magplar or mag Dk

Shields have not changed at all since DB, not sure why everyone is suddenly complaining about them

Almost every sorc is pigeonholed into using lich because without it our shields are too expensive to keep up. Because of the heavy armor meta, 80% of us have to use spinners

Magplars can facetank 15+ people but hey, lets complain about Sorcs who struggle to fight more then 2.

I have no trouble fighting Sorcs on my alts that I barley play, but people are somehow unable to fight them on their mains.

"Sorcs are OP in PvE too" anyone else seen that video of the 4 stam Sorcs kill valkyn skoria on his first platform? How about the stamblade that killed voriak solkin before he reached the crystals? Or the mag Dk that did maelstrom with heavy attacks?

Its funny, after DB when seeing a sorc was like seeing a unicorn, I got messages congratulating me for sticking with my sorc. Now I get messages from people calling me meta and FOTM for using an "overbuffed class"

Rant over lol

The sustain from lich needs to be nerfed it's too strong or maybe the magicka return from harness magicka needs to be nerfed. How expensive shields are is suppose to be a weakness. But it's completely covered up by lich and harness. add in pirate and it's completely impossible to beat a mag sorc who builds enough stamina sustain, at best you can hope for is a draw. Sorcs are being carried by this easy mode set up at the moment. If a players does to one person wearing pirate skeleton and stacking shields they did something wrong

Lich is already getting a nerf. The important thing about Lich is that the regen bonus is affected by CP, so 1000 regen becomes 1250 with 25% arcanist CP. Then add in racial bonuses (Altmer), mage guild skills, continuous attack buff, etc.

Once the arcanist CP gets cut in half, the magicka return on Lich is getting cut.

PS: Calling sorc 'easy mode' in this heavy armor, permablock, troll king meta is laughably hilarious. We're just reacting to the garbage out there, and at least we can say that we're actually using a sustain set. Most stam builds out there don't even know what a sustain set is, and have never seen the serpent mundus before.

thankyourat · March 2017

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Honestly so sick of the crying about Sorcs I wish they weren't changed at all. We fundamentally haven't changed at all as a class since DB

Destro buff: everyone has this

Storm atronach buff: damage is still pitiful and DB or meteor is still a better choice

Curse "buff": any good sorc will still immediately reapply the curse

Pirate skeleton: agree that it is OP, but is 10x better on a magplar

Destro ult: everyone has this, better on a magplar or mag Dk

Shields have not changed at all since DB, not sure why everyone is suddenly complaining about them

Almost every sorc is pigeonholed into using lich because without it our shields are too expensive to keep up. Because of the heavy armor meta, 80% of us have to use spinners

Magplars can facetank 15+ people but hey, lets complain about Sorcs who struggle to fight more then 2.

I have no trouble fighting Sorcs on my alts that I barley play, but people are somehow unable to fight them on their mains.

"Sorcs are OP in PvE too" anyone else seen that video of the 4 stam Sorcs kill valkyn skoria on his first platform? How about the stamblade that killed voriak solkin before he reached the crystals? Or the mag Dk that did maelstrom with heavy attacks?

Its funny, after DB when seeing a sorc was like seeing a unicorn, I got messages congratulating me for sticking with my sorc. Now I get messages from people calling me meta and FOTM for using an "overbuffed class"

Rant over lol

The sustain from lich needs to be nerfed it's too strong or maybe the magicka return from harness magicka needs to be nerfed. How expensive shields are is suppose to be a weakness. But it's completely covered up by lich and harness. add in pirate and it's completely impossible to beat a mag sorc who builds enough stamina sustain, at best you can hope for is a draw. Sorcs are being carried by this easy mode set up at the moment. If a players does to one person wearing pirate skeleton and stacking shields they did something wrong

Lich is already getting a nerf. The important thing about Lich is that the regen bonus is affected by CP, so 1000 regen becomes 1250 with 25% arcanist CP. Then add in racial bonuses (Altmer), mage guild skills, continuous attack buff, etc.

Once the arcanist CP gets cut in half, the magicka return on Lich is getting cut.

PS: Calling sorc 'easy mode' in this heavy armor, permablock, troll king meta is laughably hilarious. We're just reacting to the garbage out there, and at least we can say that we're actually using a sustain set. Most stam builds out there don't even know what a sustain set is, and have never seen the serpent mundus before.

I don't think the sorc class is easy mode if you don't use pirate skeleton. If you use pirate skeleton however it does become rather easy simply because you can't die. I think mag sorc is a very balanced class with so op sets just putting it over the top. Heavy armor sustain with stamina classes is way too easy a stamblade in heavy armor surprise attack cost around the same as my magblades concealed weapon in light

JbSmooth · March 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

JbSmooth wrote: »

Although I agree that LA is bad for defense in terms of resistance, Heavy armor will be sh*t again because of no cost reduction something that LA and MA has.

Wrong since the announcement of arena having no cp i have been spending a lot of time in the non cp campaign testing my builds and changing them accordingly, besides the low base stats DK & NB still has insane sustain and no issue with 1vx there with standard gear bs/br/agi -- tk for NB ofcs---as for my pet sorc i lost 7k mm thats all leaving me just under 52k mm in NON CP campaign and 150 less magicka recovery i can still maintain shields pets and skill with zero issues outside of magicka drain but that can make it hell if you not watching you duffs

******************************************************
Please, don't use anecdotal claims as evidence.

TL:DR at bottom

Bring some facts, all you mag builds want is for heavy armor to be *** again, altho this is anecdotal during my experience with no CP almost no one wore heavy armor unless they were block tanks. Something that you people still QQ about. Warlord and Magican are integral CP starts that makes Heavy armor viable without out them it hurst builds that run them. Since it has no cost reduction or passive regen it relies on getting hit to get sustain which on its own is not good.

The typical argument that heavy has 'infinite sustain' is laughable because it fails to acknowledge that the primary sustain tool for most classes comes from class skills/ passives. As I tell most people Don't use Battle roar, Dark deal, repentance, or Siphoning attacks and don't use cost reduction in you CP star and sse how you 'infinitely sustain' in heavy armor.

Light Armor is fine in the PVE side it provides the most damage of all the armor types and great defense with the armor skill 'anulment' in PVP Light armor is exactly like it's described, light so it shouldn't provide any more protection than the other armors and yet still even in pvp deals more damage than Medium or Heavy while having great defence with shields. For medium armor this analysis goes even further since the passives have additional benefits to the armor skill line such as sneak passives, roll dodge passives ect. Still deals more damage than heavy although less than light.

LA, MA and HA are fine and perfectly balanced,
MA can use a little improvement in pve, but ofcourse people like you don't want balance you just want Elder robes online to return again repeating this same fraudulent phrase that Heavy armor is Meta claiming that its facts even though ZOS data proves your claims wrong time and time again, and unless you have data on your own to back up that claim its false. Zos may makes mistakes with balance in the past but they have common sense to know that the armor skills are balanced no matter how much you claim it isn't.

TL:DR
LA is for mages it provides the least protection but the most damage and is used most effectively as range, I.E mSorcs mNBs

MA is for Skirmishers that fight and evade the base armor values of medium is only 5% less effective than Heavys base armor values, with sneak cost reduction roll dodge cost reduction medium is for your hit and run play styles.

HA is for front line men/women to take the brunt on the damage its passives are all geared towards getting hit to be effective. HP passives and healing passives are there to help be a front line tank.

If you want to tank wear heavy, other wise the armors are balanced they are meant to function differently.[/quote]

no need any person with any amount of skill and a brain can test for them on their own its not my job, to post my builds for you and how they apply do the work your self.. i have been playing since beta i have seen the game and played it in every state from my testing i will hardly be affected..

i play all classed all in heavy armor btw including my NB telling people not to use battle roar is *** its part of what makes a dk a dk the problem is simple ..... time your burst like ur supposed to and you wont have any sustain issues i can still roll dodge and kite almost just the same as a heavy armor DK in NON CP.. no one QQed at any point i made a statement i found to be true for me my sustain in heavy armor, using Battle roar, Dark deal or Siphoning attacks skill provided.. you will be fine

Derra · March 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Half of AD on Xbox EU play sorcs.

That's all the confirmation we need they're too strong. AD always play the broken stuff.

Wait till there's no reduced cost CP so everyone is back in light and medium. Magica sorcs are going to so far ahead it'll be pointless playing anything else.

Like, I play magica NB and stamplar mostly. I was on my magica NB the other day and I fought mostly sorcs for two hours. How does zos honestly think classes are balanced? I felt so unbelievably gimped against a sorc it was downright disheartening.

First off, light armor is the same as nudity for protection. There's no way Templars and DK's are giving up heavy armor for that.

Stamina abilities cost less than Magicka to begin with, every stamina tree gets a 20% cost reduction passive for all of those abilities. Stamina will still be in an excellent spot, but they won't be able to block forever anymore. Just like sorcs won't be able to go all out and shield forever.

Although I agree that LA is bad for defense in terms of resistance, Heavy armor will be sh*t again because of no cost reduction something that LA and MA has.

Everyone looses the 16% costreduction - how is this worse for heavy armor than it is for light/med (except for multiplicative reduction - which to my understanding is bugged anyways)?

Edit: I could argue/explain why this is worse for light/med - but that´s more in depth.

Because when your skills are 2K- 3K plus resources( DK) and you aren't wearing Blk rose and get hit with a poison you will always be out of resources.

Poison cost increase is calculated of skills base cost. Has the same effect for heavy as it has for light/med.

Its worse for heavy since it has no base cost reduction.

arbitrairy value for skillcost:

basecost 1000. costincrease 60% = 600
Heavyarmor skillcost = 1000.
5 lightarmor skillcost = 850.
costincrease for heavy and light is the same.
% costincrease in relation to skillcost prior to getting poisoned is worse for light/med.
heavy sees 60% costincrease of their tooltip value 1000 to 1600.
light/med sees 70.5% increase of their tooltip value 850 to 1450.

This is worse for light/med because you obviously built sustain around your actual skillcosts (the tooltip values) and having % based cost reduce not from CP causes poisons to have a more severe impact on that value.

JbSmooth · March 2017

Like i posted befor i lean more towards Max stats with my build over raw dmg while the diffrences in dmg vary you will fine them higher or lower depending on a particular skill but the dmg loss or increas is usualy insiginficant the point for ME is having the shield size while keeping the dmg this works great for ME

Non CP Shield

Non Cp Stats

CP Camp Shield

CP Stats

Father_X_Zombie · March 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Honestly so sick of the crying about Sorcs I wish they weren't changed at all. We fundamentally haven't changed at all as a class since DB

Destro buff: everyone has this

Storm atronach buff: damage is still pitiful and DB or meteor is still a better choice

Curse "buff": any good sorc will still immediately reapply the curse

Pirate skeleton: agree that it is OP, but is 10x better on a magplar

Destro ult: everyone has this, better on a magplar or mag Dk

Shields have not changed at all since DB, not sure why everyone is suddenly complaining about them

Almost every sorc is pigeonholed into using lich because without it our shields are too expensive to keep up. Because of the heavy armor meta, 80% of us have to use spinners

Magplars can facetank 15+ people but hey, lets complain about Sorcs who struggle to fight more then 2.

I have no trouble fighting Sorcs on my alts that I barley play, but people are somehow unable to fight them on their mains.

"Sorcs are OP in PvE too" anyone else seen that video of the 4 stam Sorcs kill valkyn skoria on his first platform? How about the stamblade that killed voriak solkin before he reached the crystals? Or the mag Dk that did maelstrom with heavy attacks?

Its funny, after DB when seeing a sorc was like seeing a unicorn, I got messages congratulating me for sticking with my sorc. Now I get messages from people calling me meta and FOTM for using an "overbuffed class"

Rant over lol

The sustain from lich needs to be nerfed it's too strong or maybe the magicka return from harness magicka needs to be nerfed. How expensive shields are is suppose to be a weakness. But it's completely covered up by lich and harness. add in pirate and it's completely impossible to beat a mag sorc who builds enough stamina sustain, at best you can hope for is a draw. Sorcs are being carried by this easy mode set up at the moment. If a players does to one person wearing pirate skeleton and stacking shields they did something wrong

No argument here that pirate skeleton is OP, I addressed that in my post. Still though nothing beats a trollplar with pirate skeleton. Ive witnessed a magplar facetank 15+ with pirate skeleton, have you seen a sorc do that?

And as for lich everything Min told you

Waffennacht · March 2017

JbSmooth wrote: »

Like i posted befor i lean more towards Max stats with my build over raw dmg while the diffrences in dmg vary you will fine them higher or lower depending on a particular skill but the dmg loss or increas is usualy insiginficant the point for ME is having the shield size while keeping the dmg this works great for ME

Non CP Shield
Non Cp Stats
CP Camp Shield
CP Stats

I would like to point out your stam is non existent (same with regen) x2 hard CC = gg
I would also like to point out, your max magicka is high, but your spell damage is so small! If you (let's say) running only 35k, yet had 3.5k spell damage you'll find your damage to be higher.

30% spell crit makes me cringe a bit too. (Especially for a LA user)

Your stats are OK, just not something I would be ecstatic over. I would say 80% of the player base will lose to this kind of build, the other 20% are gonna CC you to death.

Oh and unfortunately as a stage 4 vampire, you're particularly susceptible to Eots which is everywhere

Edit: only evaluating the non CP stats, and is entirely my own opinion only.

JbSmooth · March 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

JbSmooth wrote: »

Like i posted befor i lean more towards Max stats with my build over raw dmg while the diffrences in dmg vary you will fine them higher or lower depending on a particular skill but the dmg loss or increas is usualy insiginficant the point for ME is having the shield size while keeping the dmg this works great for ME

Non CP Shield
Non Cp Stats
CP Camp Shield
CP Stats

I would like to point out your stam is non existent (same with regen) x2 hard CC = gg
I would also like to point out, your max magicka is high, but your spell damage is so small! If you (let's say) running only 35k, yet had 3.5k spell damage you'll find your damage to be higher.

30% spell crit makes me cringe a bit too. (Especially for a LA user)

Your stats are OK, just not something I would be ecstatic over. I would say 80% of the player base will lose to this kind of build, the other 20% are gonna CC you to death.

Oh and unfortunately as a stage 4 vampire, you're particularly susceptible to Eots which is everywhere

Edit: only evaluating the non CP stats, and is entirely my own opinion only.

like i stated above the fact that i don't need to block means i dont run out of stam thats the point i made i have just enough in my cp tree to boost it to a point i feel comfortable ... and on the off chance i need some stam i just pot i dont run out.. have can say i have never died to lack of stam from over cc its more like 4 or 5 people killing me 80% of the time.. as for fire dmg while this can be an issue in some cases its rare as well as i can shield stack through destro ults just the same as for the 30% crit in the non cp campain a spell crit pot can push it a bit higher if you like i don't notice and real diff' my burst is still exceptional for what the build is... im not trying be the build with the most burst but i have all i need with the sustain and def to handle my self well

Animus-ESO · March 2017

My Biggest problem with sorc is that you can't crit sheilds. It's a free 100% crit chance basicly cutting everyones damage to them by 1/3. They need to make sheilds critable and they will be balanced.

Anti_Virus · March 2017

@JbSmooth

I told you to not use Battle roar and other sustain passives because you and many others make this ridiculous claim that heavy can 'infinitely sustain' which it cannot the majority of sustain comes from Class skills/ passives which be be use to better effect on a non heavy armor build. Heavy armor its self will not grant you the 'infinite sustain' that you wish it can it will always be class passives so consitution is not a valid arguement here.

Get with the program.

There is a reason why heavy armor was bad from when the game launched all the way till IC (I think) LA and MA had equal resistance and better sustain passives ( Still do IMO) which made the game Elder robes online.

Anti_Virus · March 2017

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Half of AD on Xbox EU play sorcs.

That's all the confirmation we need they're too strong. AD always play the broken stuff.

Wait till there's no reduced cost CP so everyone is back in light and medium. Magica sorcs are going to so far ahead it'll be pointless playing anything else.

Like, I play magica NB and stamplar mostly. I was on my magica NB the other day and I fought mostly sorcs for two hours. How does zos honestly think classes are balanced? I felt so unbelievably gimped against a sorc it was downright disheartening.

First off, light armor is the same as nudity for protection. There's no way Templars and DK's are giving up heavy armor for that.

Stamina abilities cost less than Magicka to begin with, every stamina tree gets a 20% cost reduction passive for all of those abilities. Stamina will still be in an excellent spot, but they won't be able to block forever anymore. Just like sorcs won't be able to go all out and shield forever.

Although I agree that LA is bad for defense in terms of resistance, Heavy armor will be sh*t again because of no cost reduction something that LA and MA has.

Everyone looses the 16% costreduction - how is this worse for heavy armor than it is for light/med (except for multiplicative reduction - which to my understanding is bugged anyways)?

Edit: I could argue/explain why this is worse for light/med - but that´s more in depth.

Because when your skills are 2K- 3K plus resources( DK) and you aren't wearing Blk rose and get hit with a poison you will always be out of resources.

Poison cost increase is calculated of skills base cost. Has the same effect for heavy as it has for light/med.

Its worse for heavy since it has no base cost reduction.

arbitrairy value for skillcost:

basecost 1000. costincrease 60% = 600
Heavyarmor skillcost = 1000.
5 lightarmor skillcost = 850.
costincrease for heavy and light is the same.
% costincrease in relation to skillcost prior to getting poisoned is worse for light/med.
heavy sees 60% costincrease of their tooltip value 1000 to 1600.
light/med sees 70.5% increase of their tooltip value 850 to 1450.

This is worse for light/med because you obviously built sustain around your actual skillcosts (the tooltip values) and having % based cost reduce not from CP causes poisons to have a more severe impact on that value.

If you mean only wearing 5 Light/ medium then you didn't fully calculate it then I understand its advantageous to wear 5/1/1 but not all people run that what about people that run 7/7 Light/Medium?

If you added 7 la/ Medium armor it would be like this.

1000 base for heavy
1000* .21= 210 = 1000- 210 = 790
790 (7/7 Light/Medium) base

1000*.6= 600+ 1000= 1600
790* .6= 474 + 790= 1264

1600 - 1264 = 336 so its still beneficial for non heavy if you sacrifice undaunted and its a small benefit.

Lord-Otto · March 2017

Derra wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Battle Spirit burst meta is the issue, guys. If we get rid of burst reliance and reward constant DPS, many classes become more balanced.

Problem with that is certain classes do it better than others.

It´s good for DKs, Templars and magNB wheras it´s bad for magsorc and stamblade.

Say what? Sorc has phenomenal DPS, PvE proves that. Even without ground DOTs, Pulse and Frags and Curse deliver. And any properly played stamblade is absolutely lethal with Dual Wield, superior animation cancelling and three damage sets.

Yes, fine-tuning would be needed, but that is the same as now. I just have that crazy dream of a PvP that is decided by superior action execution, and not random burst proc crits.

Izaki · March 2017

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Honestly so sick of the crying about Sorcs I wish they weren't changed at all. We fundamentally haven't changed at all as a class since DB

Destro buff: everyone has this

Storm atronach buff: damage is still pitiful and DB or meteor is still a better choice

Curse "buff": any good sorc will still immediately reapply the curse

Pirate skeleton: agree that it is OP, but is 10x better on a magplar

Destro ult: everyone has this, better on a magplar or mag Dk

Shields have not changed at all since DB, not sure why everyone is suddenly complaining about them

Almost every sorc is pigeonholed into using lich because without it our shields are too expensive to keep up. Because of the heavy armor meta, 80% of us have to use spinners

Magplars can facetank 15+ people but hey, lets complain about Sorcs who struggle to fight more then 2.

I have no trouble fighting Sorcs on my alts that I barley play, but people are somehow unable to fight them on their mains.

"Sorcs are OP in PvE too" anyone else seen that video of the 4 stam Sorcs kill valkyn skoria on his first platform? How about the stamblade that killed voriak solkin before he reached the crystals? Or the mag Dk that did maelstrom with heavy attacks?

Its funny, after DB when seeing a sorc was like seeing a unicorn, I got messages congratulating me for sticking with my sorc. Now I get messages from people calling me meta and FOTM for using an "overbuffed class"

Rant over lol

Just gonna point out that all the videos that you mentioned are outdated. Sorcs are definitely WAY too strong in PvE. Doing as much damage as a Mag DK in single target from range and doing more AoE/Cleave damage than anything else in the game because of the Scamp.
I mean when you see a ranged class pull 57k DPS single target you kinda start to wonder where the hell did balance go. Yeah that's pretty much the same as MagDKs and stamina builds, at full range, with insane survivability and AoE DPS beyond comparison. Hell, I don't even know if any other stamina class than stamina DK is able to surpass that single target damage.

I main a Sorc by the way. At some point, you just really gotta accept that your main class is a little too strong. That's definitely not the case in PvP, but it definitely is the case in PvE. Just sayin.

JbSmooth · March 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@JbSmooth

I told you to not use Battle roar and other sustain passives because you and many others make this ridiculous claim that heavy can 'infinitely sustain' which it cannot the majority of sustain comes from Class skills/ passives which be be use to better effect on a non heavy armor build. Heavy armor its self will not grant you the 'infinite sustain' that you wish it can it will always be class passives so consitution is not a valid arguement here.

Get with the program.

There is a reason why heavy armor was bad from when the game launched all the way till IC (I think) LA and MA had equal resistance and better sustain passives ( Still do IMO) which made the game Elder robes online.

In no way can we even have a discussion about in the absence of class skill such as Battle roar and like wise because there will never be a scenario in which their not included as a factor in sustain regardless of what armor set your building for but for you i will say it like this injunction with Class Skills H/A is better At self sustaining than MA & LA even with the absents of CP .. SO i still disagree with you Blackrose which is the example i used when i said standard set up Blackrose/agility/Blodspawn on DK -Trollking on NB my sustain is issue free , i wear full heavy always in BR that give me somthing close to 1800 magick/stam every 5 seconds im a redgeard thats another source on stam/ the weaving of heavy attacks thats another source DK's Ult & siphon attack or NB ... yes med armor offers cost reduction and im not taking away from that but personally FOR ME thats the key word here Heavy still offers more benefits in regard to sustain i dont run regen infact i havent changed my heavy dk or nb build at all its still max stat blue food with the same gear i have been playing a *** ton on the non cp server and MA is till inferior to HA......

yes i remember elder robes but that is irrelevant now that happen a patch or two after IC dropped and H/A was changed to include that passive it has now

Non CP Dizzying Swing Cost 2592
CP Dizzing Swing Cost 2178

in HA the difference in cost in similar throughout while it dose affect our resources a little sustain is not an issue what so ever as long as your not spamming skill as you should not be anyway

Minalan · March 2017

jasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »

My Biggest problem with sorc is that you can't crit sheilds. It's a free 100% crit chance basicly cutting everyones damage to them by 1/3. They need to make sheilds critable and they will be balanced.

Shields have no resistance to counteract that. If you're having problems it's your build, stack more weapon/spell damage than crit damage.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Battle Spirit burst meta is the issue, guys. If we get rid of burst reliance and reward constant DPS, many classes become more balanced.

Problem with that is certain classes do it better than others.

It´s good for DKs, Templars and magNB wheras it´s bad for magsorc and stamblade.

Say what? Sorc has phenomenal DPS, PvE proves that. Even without ground DOTs, Pulse and Frags and Curse deliver. And any properly played stamblade is absolutely lethal with Dual Wield, superior animation cancelling and three damage sets.

Yes, fine-tuning would be needed, but that is the same as now. I just have that crazy dream of a PvP that is decided by superior action execution, and not random burst proc crits.

Sorc PVE DPS depends on dropping two or three AOE DOTS. Real players don't sit inside of liquid lightning for you, where a DK you sort of can't avoid their dots.

Lord-Otto · March 2017

Yes, but DKs have limited DPS enhancers besides DOTs... I can only think of Power Lash, not counting sets.
Curse somewhat equals Power Lash, but Frags, if they don't get rolldodged, are a serious damage increase. And you can empower them. I can't say that I feel as powerful on my DK with Burning Embers and Engulfing Flames (unless vampire, of course).

Barbaran · March 2017

well somone has never played a sorc.
get CCd, dont keep up stam pots or god forbid you sprint a little bit and use some stam and get stunned, dead.
fight a good stam player that can time a CC/burst the moment your shield drops as opposed to trying to break it, dead.
try to continue a burst without re applying a shield ( because 6 secs isnt a long time when setting up and following through combos), dead.

too much resources? every 6 secs ( usually every 3-4 depending how hard your getting hit) you gotta cast a shield.
were talkin pvp here where stam builds are king and are built with 4.5k+ weapon damage, close to unlimited stam pools to roll dodge break free and burst you the **** down... and your gonna complain about sorcs? lol

toxikh.earth89neb18_ESO · March 2017

br0steen wrote: »

*gets killed by sorcs in pvp*

"Well clearly its not me, better make a thread about it"

Seriously where did this sudden influx of "sorc shields are op" come from?

i get killed by every class dont worry but sorcs kill me b4 i manage to roll dodge, even if i manage the curse or the thunder strike (forgot the name of the skill) kills me

Derra · March 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Half of AD on Xbox EU play sorcs.

That's all the confirmation we need they're too strong. AD always play the broken stuff.

Wait till there's no reduced cost CP so everyone is back in light and medium. Magica sorcs are going to so far ahead it'll be pointless playing anything else.

Like, I play magica NB and stamplar mostly. I was on my magica NB the other day and I fought mostly sorcs for two hours. How does zos honestly think classes are balanced? I felt so unbelievably gimped against a sorc it was downright disheartening.

First off, light armor is the same as nudity for protection. There's no way Templars and DK's are giving up heavy armor for that.

Stamina abilities cost less than Magicka to begin with, every stamina tree gets a 20% cost reduction passive for all of those abilities. Stamina will still be in an excellent spot, but they won't be able to block forever anymore. Just like sorcs won't be able to go all out and shield forever.

Although I agree that LA is bad for defense in terms of resistance, Heavy armor will be sh*t again because of no cost reduction something that LA and MA has.

Everyone looses the 16% costreduction - how is this worse for heavy armor than it is for light/med (except for multiplicative reduction - which to my understanding is bugged anyways)?

Edit: I could argue/explain why this is worse for light/med - but that´s more in depth.

Because when your skills are 2K- 3K plus resources( DK) and you aren't wearing Blk rose and get hit with a poison you will always be out of resources.

Poison cost increase is calculated of skills base cost. Has the same effect for heavy as it has for light/med.

Its worse for heavy since it has no base cost reduction.

arbitrairy value for skillcost:

basecost 1000. costincrease 60% = 600
Heavyarmor skillcost = 1000.
5 lightarmor skillcost = 850.
costincrease for heavy and light is the same.
% costincrease in relation to skillcost prior to getting poisoned is worse for light/med.
heavy sees 60% costincrease of their tooltip value 1000 to 1600.
light/med sees 70.5% increase of their tooltip value 850 to 1450.

This is worse for light/med because you obviously built sustain around your actual skillcosts (the tooltip values) and having % based cost reduce not from CP causes poisons to have a more severe impact on that value.

If you mean only wearing 5 Light/ medium then you didn't fully calculate it then I understand its advantageous to wear 5/1/1 but not all people run that what about people that run 7/7 Light/Medium?

If you added 7 la/ Medium armor it would be like this.

1000 base for heavy
1000* .21= 210 = 1000- 210 = 790
790 (7/7 Light/Medium) base

1000*.6= 600+ 1000= 1600
790* .6= 474 + 790= 1264 WRONG

1600 - 1264 = 336 so its still beneficial for non heavy if you sacrifice undaunted and its a small benefit.

The poison cost increase is calculated from the base cost of the skill.

With 7/7 med/light it only gets worse.

You get 790 basecost + 1000 x 0.6 = 600 costincrease. Cost increase poisons are not multiplicative with cost reduction you have. They are additive to any cost reduction and calculated of a skills base cost.

This results in the tooltip value (which your sustain is built around) seeing an increase of 75.9%. 790 tooltip becomes 1390.

Ofc the overall cost is lower when you have cost increase. But the cost relative to what you´re used to is way higher for medium/light armor builds - and the more light/med pieces you use the worse it gets.
Thus poisons have a more severe impact on medium/light armor builds sustain than they do for heavy.

Derra · March 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Battle Spirit burst meta is the issue, guys. If we get rid of burst reliance and reward constant DPS, many classes become more balanced.

Problem with that is certain classes do it better than others.

It´s good for DKs, Templars and magNB wheras it´s bad for magsorc and stamblade.

Say what? Sorc has phenomenal DPS, PvE proves that. Even without ground DOTs, Pulse and Frags and Curse deliver. And any properly played stamblade is absolutely lethal with Dual Wield, superior animation cancelling and three damage sets.

Yes, fine-tuning would be needed, but that is the same as now. I just have that crazy dream of a PvP that is decided by superior action execution, and not random burst proc crits.

PvE dps of sorcs consists literally to 50% - i can´t stress that enough HALF OF SORCS DPS is:

Volatile Familar: unusable for dps in pvp.
Liquid lightning: 4m radius ground aoe unsuable in pvp.
wall of elements: of debateable use depending on situation.
If you add in trap it only gets worse.

Stamblade with DW is still build around burst and mainly works with fear still being wonky to break in lag. Better of than a sorc but not in a great spot either.

Sublime · March 2017

About being able to kill sorcs:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5f9pu5_the-crucible-2v2-ladder-fight-2-hope-vs-irrational_videogames

I don't use Pirate Skeleton, but I have Guard, which both give 30% dmg reduction.

Lord-Otto · March 2017

Derra wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Battle Spirit burst meta is the issue, guys. If we get rid of burst reliance and reward constant DPS, many classes become more balanced.

Problem with that is certain classes do it better than others.

It´s good for DKs, Templars and magNB wheras it´s bad for magsorc and stamblade.

Say what? Sorc has phenomenal DPS, PvE proves that. Even without ground DOTs, Pulse and Frags and Curse deliver. And any properly played stamblade is absolutely lethal with Dual Wield, superior animation cancelling and three damage sets.

Yes, fine-tuning would be needed, but that is the same as now. I just have that crazy dream of a PvP that is decided by superior action execution, and not random burst proc crits.

PvE dps of sorcs consists literally to 50% - i can´t stress that enough HALF OF SORCS DPS is:

Volatile Familar: unusable for dps in pvp.
Liquid lightning: 4m radius ground aoe unsuable in pvp.
wall of elements: of debateable use depending on situation.
If you add in trap it only gets worse.

Stamblade with DW is still build around burst and mainly works with fear still being wonky to break in lag. Better of than a sorc but not in a great spot either.

Nah, man, Sorc is good even without Familiar. Other magicks dps also use Blockade. Leaves only LL. Every dps has some kind of ground DoT in PvE.
But if we look at basic, "mobile", rotations, I'm fairly optimistic with sorcs.

My sorc has Curse, Frags and Pulse, which all hit pretty well. The execute is a bit weak, but acceptable.
My NB (mag) has Strife/Pulse, Merciless and Impale. Could also use Cripple. Would be all good if Merciless wasn't so complicated.
Stamblades have even more bang with DW, SA and Incap.

I might have been not clear in my post. I'm not talking about miniscule balancing. I despise how Battle Spirit made you unkillable if not CC'ed and bursted down. Especially my MagDK felt it back then. This burst ideology just leads to technical problems, as buggy CC's, lucky crits and lag messing with your timing. It would be refreshing to see a change there.

Hexyl · March 2017

50% of the population in pvp of this game is sorc. So say there is no problem in balance with them is stupid.

And i don't know why ZOS is blind about it. Seriously, Are you playing your *** game ?
It's a mess in pvp actually.

Sorc heal, dps, tank, burst and do butter and coffe. DO SOMETHING

Barbaran · March 2017

Hexyl wrote: »

50% of the population in pvp of this game is sorc. So say there is no problem in balance with them is stupid.

And i don't know why ZOS is blind about it. Seriously, Are you playing your *** game ?
It's a mess in pvp actually.

Sorc heal, dps, tank, burst and do butter and coffe. DO SOMETHING

lol where did you get 50% statistic from? theres far more stamblades,stamsorcs,DKs then mag sorcs.
making up a 50% Statistic for argument sake doesnt make it true. go home, your drunk