Heavy gear and magplars

Dk_needs_a_buff

This isnt a rage post. Im a player returning after a few months break. I was just wondering why is heavy gear still overpowered and why is a magic templar healer tank dps all in 1 still a thing. Are there any plans to stop it? Cheers guys

Ashamray

StamDK will be stronger in all except healer part.

Reefo

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game I hardly think a heavy magplar is an issue or overpowered... especially since once you run circles around them they lose like all dps since they cannot sweep you.

It's incredibly annoying to fight someone running around you as a Templar. Unless they running soulstrike or destro ult you should be fine.

Ashamray

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game I hardly think a heavy magplar is an issue or overpowered... especially since once you run circles around them they lose like all dps since they cannot sweep you.

It's incredibly annoying to fight someone running around you as a Templar. Unless they running soulstrike or destro ult you should be fine.

Finally someone realized that PvP damage dealing on magplar is the worst among classes, especially in snares and roots. Funny thing that fine damage is coming only with group play - when mates charge your Backlash and drop target's health allowing you to beam it.

Reefo

Ashamray wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game I hardly think a heavy magplar is an issue or overpowered... especially since once you run circles around them they lose like all dps since they cannot sweep you.

It's incredibly annoying to fight someone running around you as a Templar. Unless they running soulstrike or destro ult you should be fine.

Finally someone realized that PvP damage dealing on magplar is the worst among classes, especially in snares and roots. Funny thing that fine damage is coming only with group play - when mates charge your Backlash and drop target's health allowing you to beam it.

I hardly solo on my magplar and if I do it's with troll king, I use soulshine so I take advantage of that 85k soul assault, that's what u get for not allowing me to get off my sweeps.

Tip: remove that toppling charge. If you really must use a gap closer use explosive charge.

Here's why, as templar you need to play to ur biggest strength - radiant glory. The cc immunity from toppling lets them block and defend while beaming, to be effective you javelin before you beam, very little counter play. So all you really got to do is get em down a little, javelin then beam.

Dk_needs_a_buff

When i see a magplar there is always 2 or more of them. Then they are almost impossible to kill if they know what theyr doing

LordSlif

Ashamray wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game I hardly think a heavy magplar is an issue or overpowered... especially since once you run circles around them they lose like all dps since they cannot sweep you.

It's incredibly annoying to fight someone running around you as a Templar. Unless they running soulstrike or destro ult you should be fine.

Finally someone realized that PvP damage dealing on magplar is the worst among classes, especially in snares and roots. Funny thing that fine damage is coming only with group play - when mates charge your Backlash and drop target's health allowing you to beam it.

I dont know why the magtemplar is the only class that dont have root. Why ZOS why? A lot of people say"magplar is op" but they dont. Magplar only works in group as a BoL bot and radiant spam. Magplars has many broken skills the ZOS MUST, i said MUST, remove the minimal distance of toppling charge and Create an immobilization skill.
Just few points

Dk_needs_a_buff

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

Ashamray

Reefo wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game I hardly think a heavy magplar is an issue or overpowered... especially since once you run circles around them they lose like all dps since they cannot sweep you.

It's incredibly annoying to fight someone running around you as a Templar. Unless they running soulstrike or destro ult you should be fine.

Finally someone realized that PvP damage dealing on magplar is the worst among classes, especially in snares and roots. Funny thing that fine damage is coming only with group play - when mates charge your Backlash and drop target's health allowing you to beam it.

I hardly solo on my magplar and if I do it's with troll king, I use soulshine so I take advantage of that 85k soul assault, that's what u get for not allowing me to get off my sweeps.

Tip: remove that toppling charge. If you really must use a gap closer use explosive charge.

Here's why, as templar you need to play to ur biggest strength - radiant glory. The cc immunity from toppling lets them block and defend while beaming, to be effective you javelin before you beam, very little counter play. So all you really got to do is get em down a little, javelin then beam.

Can work, but I don't use a finisher. I mostly play solo: duels or 1vs environment. Bad players are killable without finisher, but good ones usually know how to counter sweeps and rarely drop HP below 25%. Against them radiant is meh.

LordSlif

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

the magplar pvp dps is not good, i can make a list about

thankyourat

I don't think I've ever fought a magplar that was a tank a healer and dps. They are either tanky with 60k health. Tanky and great sustain and no damage with op heals (I think this is way too op if you can't kill a healer you can't win the fight) or they are a balanced magplar that has decent damage but you can still burst them down. My problem with Templars are heavy BoL bots who you can't burst down with a single player. Sure they can't really kill you but the fact that they can keep everyone you are fighting alive and you can't kill them makes them to strong for cyrodiil

Ron_Burgundy_79

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't think I've ever fought a magplar that was a tank a healer and dps. They are either tanky with 60k health. Tanky and great sustain and no damage with op heals (I think this is way too op if you can't kill a healer you can't win the fight) or they are a balanced magplar that has decent damage but you can still burst them down. My problem with Templars are heavy BoL bots who you can't burst down with a single player. Sure they can't really kill you but the fact that they can keep everyone you are fighting alive and you can't kill them makes them to strong for cyrodiil

In other words, you have a problem with reactive paired with malubeth/troll king, not necessarily the templar class. These sets have been repeatedly pointed out as overpowered, game breaking sets. Very little has been done to balance these sets.

thankyourat

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't think I've ever fought a magplar that was a tank a healer and dps. They are either tanky with 60k health. Tanky and great sustain and no damage with op heals (I think this is way too op if you can't kill a healer you can't win the fight) or they are a balanced magplar that has decent damage but you can still burst them down. My problem with Templars are heavy BoL bots who you can't burst down with a single player. Sure they can't really kill you but the fact that they can keep everyone you are fighting alive and you can't kill them makes them to strong for cyrodiil

In other words, you have a problem with reactive paired with malubeth/troll king, not necessarily the templar class. These sets have been repeatedly pointed out as overpowered, game breaking sets. Very little has been done to balance these sets.

Yes I don't really have a issue with the class. Just the sets, I actually have a problem with heavy armor as a whole

Joy_Division

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

Have you checked the latest patch notes for Dragon's Blood by chance? Your DK can wear heavy too you know.

Everything you are complaining about templars applies to DKs this patch ... because ZoS (finally) listened to you forum name.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

#dpshealertanksforever

AAbrigo

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

You can just wear fasallas. Just that simple.

Dk_needs_a_buff

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

Have you checked the latest patch notes for Dragon's Blood by chance? Your DK can wear heavy too you know.

Everything you are complaining about templars applies to DKs this patch ... because ZoS (finally) listened to you forum name.

Not complaining. And my name is from many months ago when dk was crap. Bol is to good fot pvp and allows the healer dps wixh shouldnt be there

Baboonezz

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game

List them, or do you just parrot half the population? I'm not saying cheat engine isn't a thing because it still is, but if I was to listen to the PvP population, more than 50% of the population exploits. As an AD player, both EP and DC masses exploit. On my EP toon, the AD and DC masses exploit. I don't have a filthy smurf, but I bet my savings that in their /z the EP and AD masses exploit...

Reefo

Baboonezz wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game

List them, or do you just parrot half the population? I'm not saying cheat engine isn't a thing because it still is, but if I was to listen to the PvP population, more than 50% of the population exploits. As an AD player, both EP and DC masses exploit. On my EP toon, the AD and DC masses exploit. I don't have a filthy smurf, but I bet my savings that in their /z the EP and AD masses exploit...

Stacking proc sets
Permablocking
Infinite dodge roll
Unlimited shields
Pocket healers
1shot ganks

None of which I complain about, just that there is access to and built towards for an edge. What I said earlier was that there is worse annoying stuff to deal with than 1 Templar in heavy armor.

Soris

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't think I've ever fought a magplar that was a tank a healer and dps. They are either tanky with 60k health. Tanky and great sustain and no damage with op heals (I think this is way too op if you can't kill a healer you can't win the fight) or they are a balanced magplar that has decent damage but you can still burst them down. My problem with Templars are heavy BoL bots who you can't burst down with a single player. Sure they can't really kill you but the fact that they can keep everyone you are fighting alive and you can't kill them makes them to strong for cyrodiil

So,
1v1, you can't kill the healbot and he/she can't kill you. That's perfectly ok.
1v2, you cant kill the other guy because his pocket healer is healing him and you are outnumbered, they have the upper hand. That's ok too.
2v2, with the help of your friend and by timing your ultimates, im pretty sure you can kill the other guy or even the templar, if not potato.
So where is the problem?

People who build to heal only, have exactly the same amount of rights to keep people alive as most other people decide to kill stuff. Everyone is tanky these days, ttk is fairly high even for full damage builds and that's not a bad thing. You just need to keep in mind there is a reason why heal debuffs and burst builds exists.

iseko

Soris wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't think I've ever fought a magplar that was a tank a healer and dps. They are either tanky with 60k health. Tanky and great sustain and no damage with op heals (I think this is way too op if you can't kill a healer you can't win the fight) or they are a balanced magplar that has decent damage but you can still burst them down. My problem with Templars are heavy BoL bots who you can't burst down with a single player. Sure they can't really kill you but the fact that they can keep everyone you are fighting alive and you can't kill them makes them to strong for cyrodiil

So,
1v1, you can't kill the healbot and he/she can't kill you. That's perfectly ok.
1v2, you cant kill the other guy because his pocket healer is healing him and you are outnumbered, they have the upper hand. That's ok too.
2v2, with the help of your friend and by timing your ultimates, im pretty sure you can kill the other guy or even the templar, if not potato.
So where is the problem?

People who build to heal only, have exactly the same amount of rights to keep people alive as most other people decide to kill stuff. Everyone is tanky these days, ttk is fairly high even for full damage builds and that's not a bad thing. You just need to keep in mind there is a reason why heal debuffs and burst builds exists.

Cant kill a magplar healbot with only two players. Not if he is any good.

Soris

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

Have you checked the latest patch notes for Dragon's Blood by chance? Your DK can wear heavy too you know.

Everything you are complaining about templars applies to DKs this patch ... because ZoS (finally) listened to you forum name.

Not complaining. And my name is from many months ago when dk was crap. Bol is to good fot pvp and allows the healer dps wixh shouldnt be there

I find your argument funny because;
1- healers don't really have any means of dps
2- you claim that they have and it should't be possible... Well by the same logic, then all other builds should have crap heals because they have damage!


Don't say me that every single meta build isn't a 3in1 tank dps and healer of himself already.

Soris

iseko wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't think I've ever fought a magplar that was a tank a healer and dps. They are either tanky with 60k health. Tanky and great sustain and no damage with op heals (I think this is way too op if you can't kill a healer you can't win the fight) or they are a balanced magplar that has decent damage but you can still burst them down. My problem with Templars are heavy BoL bots who you can't burst down with a single player. Sure they can't really kill you but the fact that they can keep everyone you are fighting alive and you can't kill them makes them to strong for cyrodiil

So,
1v1, you can't kill the healbot and he/she can't kill you. That's perfectly ok.
1v2, you cant kill the other guy because his pocket healer is healing him and you are outnumbered, they have the upper hand. That's ok too.
2v2, with the help of your friend and by timing your ultimates, im pretty sure you can kill the other guy or even the templar, if not potato.
So where is the problem?

People who build to heal only, have exactly the same amount of rights to keep people alive as most other people decide to kill stuff. Everyone is tanky these days, ttk is fairly high even for full damage builds and that's not a bad thing. You just need to keep in mind there is a reason why heal debuffs and burst builds exists.

Cant kill a magplar healbot with only two players. Not if he is any good.

Then bring more! Some people have difficulty to kill a dd build with 2-3 people, but some others can kill the same guy by himself. It can't be a measurement.

Also just to add, heal debuffed, focus fired and unblocked 2 ultis animation cancelled with light attacks and bash is a 1 milisecond kill most of the time even for the healer. Then there is resource game as well. Out of stamina under focus fire leads to death.
If he is good, you gotta be good too right?

Ashamray

I'm pretty sure that a good healer can't be killed just with sustained damage even if it's high. Even if it 's covered with reverb \ Darkflare spam. You must kill him in one CC, otherwise he'll outblock-outheal everything, except zerg ofc.
Good this or not, I can't say.

Dk_needs_a_buff

Soris wrote: »

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

Have you checked the latest patch notes for Dragon's Blood by chance? Your DK can wear heavy too you know.

Everything you are complaining about templars applies to DKs this patch ... because ZoS (finally) listened to you forum name.

Not complaining. And my name is from many months ago when dk was crap. Bol is to good fot pvp and allows the healer dps wixh shouldnt be there

I find your argument funny because;
1- healers don't really have any means of dps
2- you claim that they have and it should't be possible... Well by the same logic, then all other builds should have crap heals because they have damage!


Don't say me that every single meta build isn't a 3in1 tank dps and healer of himself already.

Dude all they need is breath of life and heavy gear. There we go we have a dps healer tank templar. You probobly play magplar and will be a trash player when its nurfed

Baboonezz

Kill their DPS and let them live. When me and my friend play and we run across for example a group of 5 including a magplar we identify the easiest to kill DPS and attack them, guess what happens? The magplar ooms, and usually if we can get a kill or two before the magplar even ooms.

If they are running regen on rings, max regen and max reduction in the CP tree and max heals and crit in blue CP tree their BoLs normally only get to around 4-5k, each hit me and my friend do is 4-5k, as long as we aren't on the defensive we can out damage the healer, but if you focus the magplar they can block, stun them gives them reactive buff etc etc.

Their greatest weakness is not being targeted, imho anyway.

If we are talking zergs with 4-5 magplars then yeah, you're up *** creek without a paddle unless your zerg is as just co-ordinated and running just as many magplars.

Destyran

Reefo wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game I hardly think a heavy magplar is an issue or overpowered... especially since once you run circles around them they lose like all dps since they cannot sweep you.

It's incredibly annoying to fight someone running around you as a Templar. Unless they running soulstrike or destro ult you should be fine.

Finally someone realized that PvP damage dealing on magplar is the worst among classes, especially in snares and roots. Funny thing that fine damage is coming only with group play - when mates charge your Backlash and drop target's health allowing you to beam it.

I hardly solo on my magplar and if I do it's with troll king, I use soulshine so I take advantage of that 85k soul assault, that's what u get for not allowing me to get off my sweeps.

Tip: remove that toppling charge. If you really must use a gap closer use explosive charge.

Here's why, as templar you need to play to ur biggest strength - radiant glory. The cc immunity from toppling lets them block and defend while beaming, to be effective you javelin before you beam, very little counter play. So all you really got to do is get em down a little, javelin then beam.

What do you use with soul shine though? I find lich ineffective because you constantly need mist.

Reefo

Destyran wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

So many things are broken and exploitable in this game I hardly think a heavy magplar is an issue or overpowered... especially since once you run circles around them they lose like all dps since they cannot sweep you.

It's incredibly annoying to fight someone running around you as a Templar. Unless they running soulstrike or destro ult you should be fine.

Finally someone realized that PvP damage dealing on magplar is the worst among classes, especially in snares and roots. Funny thing that fine damage is coming only with group play - when mates charge your Backlash and drop target's health allowing you to beam it.

I hardly solo on my magplar and if I do it's with troll king, I use soulshine so I take advantage of that 85k soul assault, that's what u get for not allowing me to get off my sweeps.

Tip: remove that toppling charge. If you really must use a gap closer use explosive charge.

Here's why, as templar you need to play to ur biggest strength - radiant glory. The cc immunity from toppling lets them block and defend while beaming, to be effective you javelin before you beam, very little counter play. So all you really got to do is get em down a little, javelin then beam.

What do you use with soul shine though? I find lich ineffective because you constantly need mist.

Oh I don't use mist, dropped vampire since homestead coz of all the mag dk(25% is a lot to give them). I use SnB reflect now as well as dawnbreaker/ empowering sweep/ Spell wall instead of bats. Gonna look into other stuff like harness or blazing shield and infernal guardian

Mayrael

Phi... Almost every stamDK is DPS, tank and kind of a healer (vigor). A bit weaker than magplar at healing, but much better at dpsing and tanking. Mag sorc, insane DPS (frags hitting for 8-10k are quite common) + insane shields like 13k in cyro. Let me just post stats of my last two runs in cyro. Im running solo, sticking with some groups from time time. On mag sorc I had stats arround 100 kills, 60-70 killing blows, 20 deaths. On magplar arround 100 kills, 20 killing blows, 15 deaths. These cannot be considered as any kind of proof as my skills at playing magplar can be worse, but in general puts some light on how "op" templars are.

Arkray

Baboonezz wrote: »

Kill their DPS and let them live. When me and my friend play and we run across for example a group of 5 including a magplar we identify the easiest to kill DPS and attack them, guess what happens? The magplar ooms, and usually if we can get a kill or two before the magplar even ooms.

If they are running regen on rings, max regen and max reduction in the CP tree and max heals and crit in blue CP tree their BoLs normally only get to around 4-5k, each hit me and my friend do is 4-5k, as long as we aren't on the defensive we can out damage the healer, but if you focus the magplar they can block, stun them gives them reactive buff etc etc.

Their greatest weakness is not being targeted, imho anyway.

If we are talking zergs with 4-5 magplars then yeah, you're up *** creek without a paddle unless your zerg is as just co-ordinated and running just as many magplars.

This. There is a lo of people complaining about tanky healers in every pvp game, I think that a lot of people still don't understand the role of a healer in pvp even though it's pretty much the same in every pvp game, our job isn't just healing, our job is keeping people alive.

The majority of times we play the tank role in pvp, pve taunts don't work on players but people jump on us as soon as they notice us healing, so heals are pretty much our taunt, once we have your attention we keep you busy while our team mates destroy your group, if you attack us you are exactly doing what we want you to do, we are built to tank and we can take the beating better than our mates, we don't need to heal them to keep them alive if you aren't hitting them, and this is pretty much how we accomplish our job.

Change your strategy, focus the squishiest players, time a cc on us while you burst our dps mates and you will probably take them down or drain our resources.

Tanky healers are fine here and in every pvp game, if we weren't able to survive the beating no one would play the role, because no one likes to go to the field and die in 3 seconds, easy when you are the focused target, you wouldn't expect a tank to die in pve in 3 seconds right?

Ashamray

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dk_needs_a_buff wrote: »

There should be something with breath of life that decreases the healing done if the user is wearing heavy gear. That way healers and still be healers but templars cant be a tank healer and dps

Have you checked the latest patch notes for Dragon's Blood by chance? Your DK can wear heavy too you know.

Everything you are complaining about templars applies to DKs this patch ... because ZoS (finally) listened to you forum name.

Not complaining. And my name is from many months ago when dk was crap. Bol is to good fot pvp and allows the healer dps wixh shouldnt be there

I find your argument funny because;
1- healers don't really have any means of dps
2- you claim that they have and it should't be possible... Well by the same logic, then all other builds should have crap heals because they have damage!


Don't say me that every single meta build isn't a 3in1 tank dps and healer of himself already.

Dude all they need is breath of life and heavy gear. There we go we have a dps healer tank templar. You probobly play magplar and will be a trash player when its nurfed

Only BoL and heavy, really? Here we have a guy who has no clue how to play magplar.