No CP has made it more and more evident, encase needs the bombard treatment.

SamTheSwan

The PvP Balance team definitely did the right thing when they changed bombards root to only be able to be re-applied every 5 seconds. The playstyle of sitting back behind a zerg spamming bombard to perma-snare your enemies was very detrimental to combat in this game. However, I believe it is time for encase to get that very treatment. Encase promotes the same playstyle that bombard spam was, but with a further range in a rectangle rather than a cone, and with no damage on top. It adversely benefits large groups over small groups because small groups need every player to be damage focused while large groups can afford to have one person who's dedicated job is to spam encase.

I'm not saying remove the root, encase is incredibly valuable skill as a disruption stopping players in negates, siege, and other traps; however how about rewarding spending a resource bar by dodging by giving a slight reprieve from the encase. Encase will still do it's primary job (snaring players) while punishing resource pools without completely removing non-stamina classes ability to maneuver around a battlefield.

And before someone brings up the magicka DK talon argument I would just like to quickly mention a rebuttal. Talons promote an aggressive playstyle, that involves you to be near your opponents to reduce their mobility, with a radius of 6 meters it is difficult for a DK to hide behind a zerg and still reduce movement, but perhaps the best point is that with only a 6 meter radius, talons feel escapable. Encase however has a 15 meter reach and is nigh impossible to escape in tight places or even fields if the encase spammer is anywhere near you when he begins his "valuable contribution to group play"

Speed_Kills

Amen.

Derra

Encase needs comnparable upfront dmg in that case aswell.

I don´t argue about it´s terrible design. But the bombard treatment would simply make the skill vanish entirely.

Koolio

Include Talons. It does damage as well as a synergy. So it should get the same treatment

Anti_Virus

All roots need a cool down it's ridiculous.

Anti_Virus

Derra wrote: »

Encase needs comnparable upfront dmg in that case aswell.

I don´t argue about it´s terrible design. But the bombard treatment would simply make the skill vanish entirely.

Like how Bombard did?

kessik221

15 meters? So everyone who isnt a tank shouldnt be getting hit anyways if someone is sitting in the back spamming it. I dont see the point of nerfing it in this scenario. And as you said, in a small fight you wouldnt have a dedicated spammer anyways.

SamTheSwan

@kessik221 15 meters is quite the range for an ability that roots anything and everything in its columns. As I mentioned above a lot of the issue of this skill is the "pursuitability" of it, because of that 15 meter range it is nigh impossible to escape the spam because as soon as a player rolls out of one encase, they haven't cleared enough distance to be free of the following one.

@Derra I guess the pro of encase is to be used a a niche cc. Magicka sorc already has a ground aoe (albeit it does not have a snare attacked) but even if encase has a "cooldown" for being snared repeatedly it is still doing it's primary job, which is deplete the stamina pool of the aflicted class. If purge is used on a player effected with encase, they should be able to be re-encased, (much as how bombard works now), and while I understand that you didn't disagree with the fact that encase needed to be changed, I think that this change wouldn't stop the use of negate over a large scale it would simply stop punishing players AFTER dodge rolling by forcing them to use more of their resources. This would also be an opening for larger groups to strike, knowing that a player had used from 40-10% of their stamina pool depending upon cp, class, and spec.

@Koolio as I mentioned above, I don't feel as if talons are as detrimental to players of all types because of the "escapability" of the skill, it is quite easy to get out of a 6 meter range for any class, and talons are far from cheap for a tanky spec.

OldGamerESO

This is a very good skill for Magicka Sorc Tanks. Mayhaps my fav skill.

Lets slow these nerfs done for PvP that hurts PvE. Unless the proposed solution would only apply to PvP somehow?

SamTheSwan

@OldGamerESO ideally the encase "immunity" would only happen as a player had dodgerolled or otherwise freed themselves from encase without cleansing the buffs, otherwise encase could be applied back to back. I guess the proposed solution would only really force you to be more diligent about reapplying the snare.

Berenhir

Just cleanse it. You guys all think you can go to war without support, medics and tactics.

This is a serious l2p issue. A L2HaveAHealerOrSlotMistFormOrHaveShuffleOrBeATemplarOrHaveATemplarFriendOrGetRapidManeuver issue.

Domander

Berenhir wrote: »

Just cleanse it. You guys all think you can go to war without support, medics and tactics.

This is a serious l2p issue. A L2HaveAHealerOrSlotMistFormOrHaveShuffleOrBeATemplarOrHaveATemplarFriendOrGetRapidManeuver issue.

This, I agree


It's a very expensive ability to spam, and it does no damage.

There are multiple ways to remove it. There's 4 abilities that make you completely immune to it, (which means the sorc used a LOT of magicka with no effect) with one ability (forward momentum) you can use every 8 seconds (if you wish) and never get rooted again.

It also greatly helps combat "ball groups" and "zergs"

raasdal

Berenhir wrote: »

Just cleanse it. You guys all think you can go to war without support, medics and tactics.

This is a serious l2p issue. A L2HaveAHealerOrSlotMistFormOrHaveShuffleOrBeATemplarOrHaveATemplarFriendOrGetRapidManeuver issue.

OrSlotForwardMomentum

SodanTok

No, those several months since bombard treatment makes it more and more evident bombards needs reverse treatment. This skill got destroyed like nothing else.

I wouldnt mind if encase and bombard met somewhere in the middle. Immunity to encase/bombard root for few sec after being rooted. But only if you got rooted. The way bombard works currently is that everyone is immune to bombard root 90% of the time.

RinaldoGandolphi

Root spam is broken regardless of if it's Talons, Encase, Crippling grasp, Frost reach, etc

You should not be able to root spam someone repeatedly. That's broken! We're any of you around when the game had no CC immunity, it was equally broken. A skill that prevents your character from moving is every bit as powerful as hard cc. Someone who can't move;can't fight...combat 101.

There needs to be some sort of immunity to being rooted, the only people who get root immunity in this game are Stam builds that's unbalanced

In return change on of the Alliance War Purge morphs into a Stam morph.

NBrookus

OldGamerESO wrote: »

This is a very good skill for Magicka Sorc Tanks. Mayhaps my fav skill.

Lets slow these nerfs done for PvP that hurts PvE. Unless the proposed solution would only apply to PvP somehow?

Since mobs don't mistform and roll dodge out of encase, this really shouldn't affect pve.

Derra wrote: »

Encase needs comnparable upfront dmg in that case aswell.

The last thing sorcs need is more damage, but a small amount of damage would be a reasonable compromise, IMO. It shouldn't be on par with Daedric tomb, however, since sorcs already have that option.

Derra

NBrookus wrote: »

OldGamerESO wrote: »

This is a very good skill for Magicka Sorc Tanks. Mayhaps my fav skill.

Lets slow these nerfs done for PvP that hurts PvE. Unless the proposed solution would only apply to PvP somehow?

Since mobs don't mistform and roll dodge out of encase, this really shouldn't affect pve.

Derra wrote: »

Encase needs comnparable upfront dmg in that case aswell.

The last thing sorcs need is more damage, but a small amount of damage would be a reasonable compromise, IMO. It shouldn't be on par with Daedric tomb, however, since sorcs already have that option.

Well daedric tomb is an entirely different beast. I´ve not seen it getting used to great success tbh.
Half of what mines do would be entirely fine.

BTW shattering prison still deals no dmg when rolled out of... Hello @zos anyone?

Jsmalls

Roots in general need to be addressed. Why there is no cool down like CC immunity is beyond me.

Joy_Division

Encase is a good, strong skill that has a high cost and does either no or pitiful damage. It has range, but it's quite narrow and, contrary to the ESO philosophy that AoE's can't be dodged/avoided, this one can be.

It is a single nerf away from going into the "another skill ZoS has nerfed into uselessness" category.

What I find mostly at issue is that I am forced to be a vampire as a magicka build as my only realistic option for dealing with mobility restricting abilities used by other players.

Derra

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Encase needs comnparable upfront dmg in that case aswell.

I don´t argue about it´s terrible design. But the bombard treatment would simply make the skill vanish entirely.

Like how Bombard did?

Bombard is still used ._. Just not as common.

Lord-Otto

Derra wrote: »

Encase needs comnparable upfront dmg in that case aswell.

I don´t argue about it´s terrible design. But the bombard treatment would simply make the skill vanish entirely.

It can go. Won't be missed.

Brutusmax1mus

Roots effect certain classes/builds more than others. That's how this game should be... One build shouldn't beat everything. There are counters to this already, learn to use them.

In fact, there are counters to those counters like negate on top of root spam. THAT'S CALLED GOOD GAME PLAY AND GROUP SYNERGY.

L2P, get good and stop complaining when an organized group mops you up when running solo near 20 other solo people.

And for the love of God ZOS, you MUST rebalance skills of the plan is to remove cp. Cp opens up build diversity. Removing it this week has sent us back to the stone age.

rimmidimdim

Anti_Virus wrote: »

All roots need a cool down ita ridiculous.

This is my thought as well. Redonkulous.

Waffennacht

WTB original Daedric Tomb plz

H4RDFOX

If they nerf all roots, then I'm on board with a nerf, but my encase should have some damage to it as well. DKs are in some cases unstoppable, and if I can root someone to exhaust their resources, then I will, Roger! What about immovability pots, and other abilities that should remove you from a situation like that. These nerf trains need to stop.

Derra

kessik221 wrote: »

15 meters? So everyone who isnt a tank shouldnt be getting hit anyways if someone is sitting in the back spamming it. I dont see the point of nerfing it in this scenario. And as you said, in a small fight you wouldnt have a dedicated spammer anyways.

Sadly on nonCP it´s the most effective thing a sorc can do in a grp with more than 3 people.
That´s a nonCP issue though

NightbladeMechanics

I'd rather get some magicka forms of snare and root immunity added to the game. Small ones that wouldn't be immediately competitive for a bar slot, but would be worth adding for group fight situations in close quarters.

Stam already has Shuffle, Forward Momentum, and technically rapids, although that isn't terribly reliable due to its cost.

Domander

I'd also like to point out that bombard is a morph of a cone snare, so the logic here is flawed.

Encase is primarily a root, it's also class defining like talons. I don't see either as a problem (nor do I have a problem with them) with all the ways to remove or be immune to them.

NightbladeMechanics

Domander wrote: »

I'd also like to point out that bombard is a morph of a cone snare, so the logic here is flawed.

Encase is primarily a root, it's also class defining like talons. I don't see either as a problem (nor do I have a problem with them) with all the ways to remove or be immune to them.

Talons extends a short range away from the least mobile class in the game, whereas Encase extends over a dozen meters away from the most mobile class in the game. Talons' aoe is greater in area but more restricted by its radius and mobility of the caster.

Mist Form is the only magicka snare and root removal in the game, and casting it restricts other ability casts, healing, and regen. Vampirism also brings a fire weakness in a game with a fire based class and powerful fire siege.

And Encase is native to the same class with a large aoe magicka silencing ult.

See the issues here? I'm not sure if I consider Encase itself op -- I still favor weaving some more magicka sources of snare and root removal into the game instead of just nerfing the ability -- but I understand people's concerns.

Also Streak and Curse are far more class defining than Encase...

SamTheSwan

Domander wrote: »

I'd also like to point out that bombard is a morph of a cone snare, so the logic here is flawed.

Encase is primarily a root, it's also class defining like talons. I don't see either as a problem (nor do I have a problem with them) with all the ways to remove or be immune to them.

I literally mentioned that bombard is conicular and encase is rectangular. The logic behind this is that a player should not rewarded for being 15 meters from their enemies and still being able to reduce their movement.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I'd pay just to see less immobilizes and snares all around lol. Elder snares online bro!