Things that break cloak

NightbladeMechanics

Lol yea that build is ridiculous. It's actually stronger now with minor magickasteal, even after the vitality and Desert Rose nerfs. Two other videos on my channel show gameplay, and I'll be working on an updated video after cp is reenabled.

Also in agreement that cloakless mageblade 1vX is plenty possible, albeit not as easy or strong as any stam class or magicka sorc, and Vita is beautiful to watch (he does use but does not rely on cloak). Love that guy. Thanks for the shoutout.

Lastly, cloak has always forced single target abilities to miss. I haven't tested it with Silver Shards or Reflective Light recently, but imo it should force those to miss or not target the nb if they're already cloaked..

thankyourat

Veleciois curse is breaking cloak not the explosion though the actual cast. It's getting annoying

deepseamk20b14_ESO

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

I refer to @NightbladeMechanics. NB even has passives that specifically scale off heavy armor. NB tank is just not meta right now. Neither is mageblade in general, outside of some obnoxious bomb-blade builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZES4RlNrfU

As far as cloak goes, since Homestead, it appears to function like a dodge roll, causing targeted abilities to miss. This is an incredibly powerful buff. I am not sure why so many people are still complaining about it. Sure it doesn't purge dots like it used to, but for the most part, they won't pop you out. Yeah, curse is a counter. It's not a hard counter. As far as splash damage abilities like silver shards and reflective light, I am not sure if they are working as intended. On the one hand, you could say they are AoE so they hit and reveal you. On the other, you could say that they are dodgeable, so they shouldn't. Of course you can cloak out of a channeled ability like RD, which can't be dodged. So maybe cloak is unique like that. I would suggest not being too close to people as a general rule anyway: you never know when someone is going to blow them up with VD.

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

I've seen some incredible non-tank mageblade 1vX without even relying on cloak (specifically Vita Belial, who I always stop to watch.) I am absolutely certain that you don't need cloak to be competitive in Cyrodiil. In my personal experience, mageblades use it to be annoying and troll, while stamblades use it to execute cheap ganks. Both okay in small doses, I guess, but rather toxic to pvp as a mainstay.

I'm not entirely sure how many times I have to say this but I'll give it one more go.

This is about a skill working as intended. I could give two ***** about this or that or what have you and how good this other thing is and how well you can do without it. THIS ISN'T WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

I don't NEED cloak (said for a second time? Third time? Maybe fourth?) This is about finding what's skills break cloak THAT AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BREAK IT.

If there was a skill that bypassed shields would you not try and figure out what to have it fixed? If a skill that did something it wasn't programmed to do would you not fix it?

That's what the post is about before butt hurt people who have been ganked by NB's to much, hijacked it.

And my claim about NB and heavy armor still stands true as you can sit there and Google every damn site out there and you will RARELY find an NB PvP tank build. No one cares about them. No one cares about resources or damage when you can't do what a tank does best, which is survive. Surviving comes down to the most basic resource which is heslth. Self healing is a 100% necessity for that to work and NB does not have that type of gameplay that inns with heavy armor.

This is exactly why even after heavy armor got patched NB's around the world are still rocking medium (my favorite) and light armor. Go ahead. Put a heavy DK vs an NB with 2 players of the same skill level and the DK will win.

This isn't a bad thing and I'm literally not even complaining about it. I don't care about heavy armor and I think NB is way better in medium. I'm merely stating an opinion based on observable data, as again, the number of heavy armor NB'setup pale in comparison to those in medium and light. Just as you see other classes more so in heavy than light or medium.

Does this mean an NB can't wear heavy? Of course not. Throw on ravager, black rose, troll king and as long as you know wtf you are doing you'll do great (that's one of my builds that works great). But it not even an arguable fact that NB synergizes with medium or light armor better than heavy, especially compared to DK or temp. I don't care if you find one magical build that works because I can find a dozen medium and light builds that work better.

Jesus. How about we get back to what skills break cloak that aren't supposed to ffs.

arkansas_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

NightbladeMechanics

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

I refer to @NightbladeMechanics. NB even has passives that specifically scale off heavy armor. NB tank is just not meta right now. Neither is mageblade in general, outside of some obnoxious bomb-blade builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZES4RlNrfU

As far as cloak goes, since Homestead, it appears to function like a dodge roll, causing targeted abilities to miss. This is an incredibly powerful buff. I am not sure why so many people are still complaining about it. Sure it doesn't purge dots like it used to, but for the most part, they won't pop you out. Yeah, curse is a counter. It's not a hard counter. As far as splash damage abilities like silver shards and reflective light, I am not sure if they are working as intended. On the one hand, you could say they are AoE so they hit and reveal you. On the other, you could say that they are dodgeable, so they shouldn't. Of course you can cloak out of a channeled ability like RD, which can't be dodged. So maybe cloak is unique like that. I would suggest not being too close to people as a general rule anyway: you never know when someone is going to blow them up with VD.

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

I've seen some incredible non-tank mageblade 1vX without even relying on cloak (specifically Vita Belial, who I always stop to watch.) I am absolutely certain that you don't need cloak to be competitive in Cyrodiil. In my personal experience, mageblades use it to be annoying and troll, while stamblades use it to execute cheap ganks. Both okay in small doses, I guess, but rather toxic to pvp as a mainstay.

I'm not entirely sure how many times I have to say this but I'll give it one more go.

This is about a skill working as intended. I could give two ***** about this or that or what have you and how good this other thing is and how well you can do without it. THIS ISN'T WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

I don't NEED cloak (said for a second time? Third time? Maybe fourth?) This is about finding what's skills break cloak THAT AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BREAK IT.

If there was a skill that bypassed shields would you not try and figure out what to have it fixed? If a skill that did something it wasn't programmed to do would you not fix it?

That's what the post is about before butt hurt people who have been ganked by NB's to much, hijacked it.

And my claim about NB and heavy armor still stands true as you can sit there and Google every damn site out there and you will RARELY find an NB PvP tank build. No one cares about them. No one cares about resources or damage when you can't do what a tank does best, which is survive. Surviving comes down to the most basic resource which is heslth. Self healing is a 100% necessity for that to work and NB does not have that type of gameplay that inns with heavy armor.

This is exactly why even after heavy armor got patched NB's around the world are still rocking medium (my favorite) and light armor. Go ahead. Put a heavy DK vs an NB with 2 players of the same skill level and the DK will win.

This isn't a bad thing and I'm literally not even complaining about it. I don't care about heavy armor and I think NB is way better in medium. I'm merely stating an opinion based on observable data, as again, the number of heavy armor NB'setup pale in comparison to those in medium and light. Just as you see other classes more so in heavy than light or medium.

Does this mean an NB can't wear heavy? Of course not. Throw on ravager, black rose, troll king and as long as you know wtf you are doing you'll do great (that's one of my builds that works great). But it not even an arguable fact that NB synergizes with medium or light armor better than heavy, especially compared to DK or temp. I don't care if you find one magical build that works because I can find a dozen medium and light builds that work better.

Jesus. How about we get back to what skills break cloak that aren't supposed to ffs.

Have you even seen my nightblade tank in action? "Can't survive" wtf are you talking about?

And have you seen the build trends for nightblades lately?

Stamblades who aren't ganking and mageblades who aren't bombing wear heavy now as a vast majority. Heavy simply works better, contrary to your points, than light or medium on magicka and stamina nightblade in ALL play style cases except bombing and ganking. Period, end of story. To argue otherwise is incorrect.

Kram8ion

A snake farting in a puddle

Lord-Otto

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

That was mentioned to underline how your class is designed with an emphasis on offense. Sorcs also don't have Major Mending because of that.
Slimecraw is a sacrifice you have to make. NBs get Berserk through one of their strongest skills. And can stack it with Kena, Grothdarr, Veli, whatever.
Lastly, if you want a defensive move, you got Minor Maim. And that 5k resists from a PASSIVE, something no other class has.
And MagBlade synergizes very well with Heavy Armor thanks to siphoning. Magsorcs don't, for example.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

I refer to @NightbladeMechanics. NB even has passives that specifically scale off heavy armor. NB tank is just not meta right now. Neither is mageblade in general, outside of some obnoxious bomb-blade builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZES4RlNrfU

As far as cloak goes, since Homestead, it appears to function like a dodge roll, causing targeted abilities to miss. This is an incredibly powerful buff. I am not sure why so many people are still complaining about it. Sure it doesn't purge dots like it used to, but for the most part, they won't pop you out. Yeah, curse is a counter. It's not a hard counter. As far as splash damage abilities like silver shards and reflective light, I am not sure if they are working as intended. On the one hand, you could say they are AoE so they hit and reveal you. On the other, you could say that they are dodgeable, so they shouldn't. Of course you can cloak out of a channeled ability like RD, which can't be dodged. So maybe cloak is unique like that. I would suggest not being too close to people as a general rule anyway: you never know when someone is going to blow them up with VD.

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

I've seen some incredible non-tank mageblade 1vX without even relying on cloak (specifically Vita Belial, who I always stop to watch.) I am absolutely certain that you don't need cloak to be competitive in Cyrodiil. In my personal experience, mageblades use it to be annoying and troll, while stamblades use it to execute cheap ganks. Both okay in small doses, I guess, but rather toxic to pvp as a mainstay.

I'm not entirely sure how many times I have to say this but I'll give it one more go.

This is about a skill working as intended. I could give two ***** about this or that or what have you and how good this other thing is and how well you can do without it. THIS ISN'T WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

I don't NEED cloak (said for a second time? Third time? Maybe fourth?) This is about finding what's skills break cloak THAT AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BREAK IT.

If there was a skill that bypassed shields would you not try and figure out what to have it fixed? If a skill that did something it wasn't programmed to do would you not fix it?

That's what the post is about before butt hurt people who have been ganked by NB's to much, hijacked it.

And my claim about NB and heavy armor still stands true as you can sit there and Google every damn site out there and you will RARELY find an NB PvP tank build. No one cares about them. No one cares about resources or damage when you can't do what a tank does best, which is survive. Surviving comes down to the most basic resource which is heslth. Self healing is a 100% necessity for that to work and NB does not have that type of gameplay that inns with heavy armor.

This is exactly why even after heavy armor got patched NB's around the world are still rocking medium (my favorite) and light armor. Go ahead. Put a heavy DK vs an NB with 2 players of the same skill level and the DK will win.

This isn't a bad thing and I'm literally not even complaining about it. I don't care about heavy armor and I think NB is way better in medium. I'm merely stating an opinion based on observable data, as again, the number of heavy armor NB'setup pale in comparison to those in medium and light. Just as you see other classes more so in heavy than light or medium.

Does this mean an NB can't wear heavy? Of course not. Throw on ravager, black rose, troll king and as long as you know wtf you are doing you'll do great (that's one of my builds that works great). But it not even an arguable fact that NB synergizes with medium or light armor better than heavy, especially compared to DK or temp. I don't care if you find one magical build that works because I can find a dozen medium and light builds that work better.

Jesus. How about we get back to what skills break cloak that aren't supposed to ffs.

Have you even seen my nightblade tank in action? "Can't survive" wtf are you talking about?

And have you seen the build trends for nightblades lately?

Stamblades who aren't ganking and mageblades who aren't bombing wear heavy now as a vast majority. Heavy simply works better, contrary to your points, than light or medium on magicka and stamina nightblade in ALL play style cases except bombing and ganking. Period, end of story. To argue otherwise is incorrect.

You're arguing a point that no one is arguing for. I even said heavy armor can be decent with NB. What's being argued here is that medium and light armor builds are flat out better for NB. Idk wtf trends you are talking about, as if you are reading some insider business Magazine. "Hey look honey! Page two shows and upward trend in heavy armor nightblade! We should invest!"

As I said. Google NB heavy armor builds. Youtube. Go to all the popular build sites. For every 1 heavy armor build there are 10 times the amount of light and medium armor builds out there. It's so easy to just look for yourself. Not one person in any of my PvP guilds wear heavy as an NB. Maybe you just got out of a time machine back when sap tanks were a thing, I don't know.

I really don't know what game you are playing saying "the vast majority" of nightblades are wearing heavy armor. There is no way you're playing ESO.

I can wear just jewelery and kill people. It doesn't mean being naked is effective compared to the other options.

H4RDFOX

I've recorded some videos on my magblade just so that I can look back and see how cloak is working. For the most part, I've come to the conclusion that cloak in half the cases does not break LOS, so being attacked with a bow after hitting cloak does/does not work. I have also attacked a nightblade with a bow, and after they cloaked my hits missed. If I understand it correctly, cloak should break LOS when casted. I've also had the issue where my piercing mark did not work as intended, the nightblade would cloak and would disappear all together.

danno8

FYI, in regards to Vamp Bane, it will throw up a "miss" every time now if a NB cloaks while the projectile is in flight. As will Dark Flare.

This must have been a recent fix, since not too long ago if you caught a NB out of stealth you could conceivably keep them out of stealth by just chain casting either of those two skills. Or they would need to "dodge cloak".

NightbladeMechanics

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

I refer to @NightbladeMechanics. NB even has passives that specifically scale off heavy armor. NB tank is just not meta right now. Neither is mageblade in general, outside of some obnoxious bomb-blade builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZES4RlNrfU

As far as cloak goes, since Homestead, it appears to function like a dodge roll, causing targeted abilities to miss. This is an incredibly powerful buff. I am not sure why so many people are still complaining about it. Sure it doesn't purge dots like it used to, but for the most part, they won't pop you out. Yeah, curse is a counter. It's not a hard counter. As far as splash damage abilities like silver shards and reflective light, I am not sure if they are working as intended. On the one hand, you could say they are AoE so they hit and reveal you. On the other, you could say that they are dodgeable, so they shouldn't. Of course you can cloak out of a channeled ability like RD, which can't be dodged. So maybe cloak is unique like that. I would suggest not being too close to people as a general rule anyway: you never know when someone is going to blow them up with VD.

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

I've seen some incredible non-tank mageblade 1vX without even relying on cloak (specifically Vita Belial, who I always stop to watch.) I am absolutely certain that you don't need cloak to be competitive in Cyrodiil. In my personal experience, mageblades use it to be annoying and troll, while stamblades use it to execute cheap ganks. Both okay in small doses, I guess, but rather toxic to pvp as a mainstay.

I'm not entirely sure how many times I have to say this but I'll give it one more go.

This is about a skill working as intended. I could give two ***** about this or that or what have you and how good this other thing is and how well you can do without it. THIS ISN'T WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

I don't NEED cloak (said for a second time? Third time? Maybe fourth?) This is about finding what's skills break cloak THAT AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BREAK IT.

If there was a skill that bypassed shields would you not try and figure out what to have it fixed? If a skill that did something it wasn't programmed to do would you not fix it?

That's what the post is about before butt hurt people who have been ganked by NB's to much, hijacked it.

And my claim about NB and heavy armor still stands true as you can sit there and Google every damn site out there and you will RARELY find an NB PvP tank build. No one cares about them. No one cares about resources or damage when you can't do what a tank does best, which is survive. Surviving comes down to the most basic resource which is heslth. Self healing is a 100% necessity for that to work and NB does not have that type of gameplay that inns with heavy armor.

This is exactly why even after heavy armor got patched NB's around the world are still rocking medium (my favorite) and light armor. Go ahead. Put a heavy DK vs an NB with 2 players of the same skill level and the DK will win.

This isn't a bad thing and I'm literally not even complaining about it. I don't care about heavy armor and I think NB is way better in medium. I'm merely stating an opinion based on observable data, as again, the number of heavy armor NB'setup pale in comparison to those in medium and light. Just as you see other classes more so in heavy than light or medium.

Does this mean an NB can't wear heavy? Of course not. Throw on ravager, black rose, troll king and as long as you know wtf you are doing you'll do great (that's one of my builds that works great). But it not even an arguable fact that NB synergizes with medium or light armor better than heavy, especially compared to DK or temp. I don't care if you find one magical build that works because I can find a dozen medium and light builds that work better.

Jesus. How about we get back to what skills break cloak that aren't supposed to ffs.

Have you even seen my nightblade tank in action? "Can't survive" wtf are you talking about?

And have you seen the build trends for nightblades lately?

Stamblades who aren't ganking and mageblades who aren't bombing wear heavy now as a vast majority. Heavy simply works better, contrary to your points, than light or medium on magicka and stamina nightblade in ALL play style cases except bombing and ganking. Period, end of story. To argue otherwise is incorrect.

You're arguing a point that no one is arguing for. I even said heavy armor can be decent with NB. What's being argued here is that medium and light armor builds are flat out better for NB. Idk wtf trends you are talking about, as if you are reading some insider business Magazine. "Hey look honey! Page two shows and upward trend in heavy armor nightblade! We should invest!"

As I said. Google NB heavy armor builds. Youtube. Go to all the popular build sites. For every 1 heavy armor build there are 10 times the amount of light and medium armor builds out there. It's so easy to just look for yourself. Not one person in any of my PvP guilds wear heavy as an NB. Maybe you just got out of a time machine back when sap tanks were a thing, I don't know.

I really don't know what game you are playing saying "the vast majority" of nightblades are wearing heavy armor. There is no way you're playing ESO.

I can wear just jewelery and kill people. It doesn't mean being naked is effective compared to the other options.

Since when is a random polling of self-proclaimed internet experts going to give you any information of value?

I'm sorry friend, but over 90% of internet builds are garbage, and the good ones come from a small group of players who don't bother with mass produced "build sites." I know because I publish real builds amidst all that noise. And if all of your guildies are using light or medium, then they are either 1) ganking or bombing, 2) intentionally gimping themselves, or 3) woefully uninformed.

Now go play in heavy Fury or Hunding's + Bloodspawn or Selene's + Agility + vma weapons on a stamblade or heavy Julianos + Transmutation + Bloodspawn or Valkyn on a mageblade, and you'll see the difference heavy armor makes.

I was called to this thread to help inform the discussion. Let's keep it civil please.

arkansas_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

That was mentioned to underline how your class is designed with an emphasis on offense. Sorcs also don't have Major Mending because of that.
Slimecraw is a sacrifice you have to make. NBs get Berserk through one of their strongest skills. And can stack it with Kena, Grothdarr, Veli, whatever.
Lastly, if you want a defensive move, you got Minor Maim. And that 5k resists from a PASSIVE, something no other class has.
And MagBlade synergizes very well with Heavy Armor thanks to siphoning. Magsorcs don't, for example.

That's my point: neither sorcs nor NB have Major Mending because they're meant to be a hit-and-run class, sacrificing tankiness for mobility. The issue is NB's mobility, Cloak, is gimped.

Also, the 5k resist passive only lasts for 5-10 seconds, and you still have to slot a skill to use it (most magic NBs slot Refreshing Path to proc this.) Compare Refreshing Path, which gives the caster 8 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, a small HOT while standing in the path, a small DOT to those standing in the path, and Major Expedition for 3 seconds after leaving the path, to Boundless Storm, which gives 15 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, does the same amount of AOE damage as Path but moves with the caster, and gives 7.5 seconds of Major Expedition, and suddenly that NB passive doesn't look so appealing.

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

That was mentioned to underline how your class is designed with an emphasis on offense. Sorcs also don't have Major Mending because of that.
Slimecraw is a sacrifice you have to make. NBs get Berserk through one of their strongest skills. And can stack it with Kena, Grothdarr, Veli, whatever.
Lastly, if you want a defensive move, you got Minor Maim. And that 5k resists from a PASSIVE, something no other class has.
And MagBlade synergizes very well with Heavy Armor thanks to siphoning. Magsorcs don't, for example.

Offense is a nightblades defense. You have to actually control your opponent on a nightblade and keep the fight very fast paced. Something that is becoming very hard to do with how strong defensive abilities are becoming. Also magblades are forced into heavy armor. yes it has some decent synergies, but not as much as light. It's just in the current meta magblade doesn't really have a way to defend themselves so heavy is the obvious choice. My light armor sorc is completely outclassing my light armor magblade for open world cyrodiil.

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

I refer to @NightbladeMechanics. NB even has passives that specifically scale off heavy armor. NB tank is just not meta right now. Neither is mageblade in general, outside of some obnoxious bomb-blade builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZES4RlNrfU

As far as cloak goes, since Homestead, it appears to function like a dodge roll, causing targeted abilities to miss. This is an incredibly powerful buff. I am not sure why so many people are still complaining about it. Sure it doesn't purge dots like it used to, but for the most part, they won't pop you out. Yeah, curse is a counter. It's not a hard counter. As far as splash damage abilities like silver shards and reflective light, I am not sure if they are working as intended. On the one hand, you could say they are AoE so they hit and reveal you. On the other, you could say that they are dodgeable, so they shouldn't. Of course you can cloak out of a channeled ability like RD, which can't be dodged. So maybe cloak is unique like that. I would suggest not being too close to people as a general rule anyway: you never know when someone is going to blow them up with VD.

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

I've seen some incredible non-tank mageblade 1vX without even relying on cloak (specifically Vita Belial, who I always stop to watch.) I am absolutely certain that you don't need cloak to be competitive in Cyrodiil. In my personal experience, mageblades use it to be annoying and troll, while stamblades use it to execute cheap ganks. Both okay in small doses, I guess, but rather toxic to pvp as a mainstay.

I'm not entirely sure how many times I have to say this but I'll give it one more go.

This is about a skill working as intended. I could give two ***** about this or that or what have you and how good this other thing is and how well you can do without it. THIS ISN'T WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

I don't NEED cloak (said for a second time? Third time? Maybe fourth?) This is about finding what's skills break cloak THAT AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BREAK IT.

If there was a skill that bypassed shields would you not try and figure out what to have it fixed? If a skill that did something it wasn't programmed to do would you not fix it?

That's what the post is about before butt hurt people who have been ganked by NB's to much, hijacked it.

And my claim about NB and heavy armor still stands true as you can sit there and Google every damn site out there and you will RARELY find an NB PvP tank build. No one cares about them. No one cares about resources or damage when you can't do what a tank does best, which is survive. Surviving comes down to the most basic resource which is heslth. Self healing is a 100% necessity for that to work and NB does not have that type of gameplay that inns with heavy armor.

This is exactly why even after heavy armor got patched NB's around the world are still rocking medium (my favorite) and light armor. Go ahead. Put a heavy DK vs an NB with 2 players of the same skill level and the DK will win.

This isn't a bad thing and I'm literally not even complaining about it. I don't care about heavy armor and I think NB is way better in medium. I'm merely stating an opinion based on observable data, as again, the number of heavy armor NB'setup pale in comparison to those in medium and light. Just as you see other classes more so in heavy than light or medium.

Does this mean an NB can't wear heavy? Of course not. Throw on ravager, black rose, troll king and as long as you know wtf you are doing you'll do great (that's one of my builds that works great). But it not even an arguable fact that NB synergizes with medium or light armor better than heavy, especially compared to DK or temp. I don't care if you find one magical build that works because I can find a dozen medium and light builds that work better.

Jesus. How about we get back to what skills break cloak that aren't supposed to ffs.

Have you even seen my nightblade tank in action? "Can't survive" wtf are you talking about?

And have you seen the build trends for nightblades lately?

Stamblades who aren't ganking and mageblades who aren't bombing wear heavy now as a vast majority. Heavy simply works better, contrary to your points, than light or medium on magicka and stamina nightblade in ALL play style cases except bombing and ganking. Period, end of story. To argue otherwise is incorrect.

You're arguing a point that no one is arguing for. I even said heavy armor can be decent with NB. What's being argued here is that medium and light armor builds are flat out better for NB. Idk wtf trends you are talking about, as if you are reading some insider business Magazine. "Hey look honey! Page two shows and upward trend in heavy armor nightblade! We should invest!"

As I said. Google NB heavy armor builds. Youtube. Go to all the popular build sites. For every 1 heavy armor build there are 10 times the amount of light and medium armor builds out there. It's so easy to just look for yourself. Not one person in any of my PvP guilds wear heavy as an NB. Maybe you just got out of a time machine back when sap tanks were a thing, I don't know.

I really don't know what game you are playing saying "the vast majority" of nightblades are wearing heavy armor. There is no way you're playing ESO.

I can wear just jewelery and kill people. It doesn't mean being naked is effective compared to the other options.

I think you are only half right yes medium and light armor synergize better with the nightblade playstyle, but heavy synergizes better with the meta. So as a nightblade right now you would be better off using heavy and changing your playstyle or you are going to have some difficulties. I'm not currently running heavy on my magblade because I just got bored with it, but heavy it's far stronger right now for open world cyrodiil.

Lord-Otto

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

That was mentioned to underline how your class is designed with an emphasis on offense. Sorcs also don't have Major Mending because of that.
Slimecraw is a sacrifice you have to make. NBs get Berserk through one of their strongest skills. And can stack it with Kena, Grothdarr, Veli, whatever.
Lastly, if you want a defensive move, you got Minor Maim. And that 5k resists from a PASSIVE, something no other class has.
And MagBlade synergizes very well with Heavy Armor thanks to siphoning. Magsorcs don't, for example.

That's my point: neither sorcs nor NB have Major Mending because they're meant to be a hit-and-run class, sacrificing tankiness for mobility. The issue is NB's mobility, Cloak, is gimped.

Also, the 5k resist passive only lasts for 5-10 seconds, and you still have to slot a skill to use it (most magic NBs slot Refreshing Path to proc this.) Compare Refreshing Path, which gives the caster 8 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, a small HOT while standing in the path, a small DOT to those standing in the path, and Major Expedition for 3 seconds after leaving the path, to Boundless Storm, which gives 15 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, does the same amount of AOE damage as Path but moves with the caster, and gives 7.5 seconds of Major Expedition, and suddenly that NB passive doesn't look so appealing.

Fear and Cloak proc it. Since you wanna activate Fear every five seconds, also refreshing Minor Maim, it's an almost non-existant requirement, really.
Also, you are underestimating the value of Refreshing's HoT.

But, you brought up a good point.
Mobility can indeed be lacking, esoecially on Magblade. Letting Cloak grant snare immunity, just like Shuffle, would go a TREMENDOUS way.
It would make Double Take more appealing. Make Mist and Vamp unnecessary. Make Cloak a desirable action even if you know it's going to be broken right away.
This could actually fix things.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

What heals? We are talking class abilities now, since you bring up minor berserk. Considering all NB heals are Hots or purely situational (like having to kill the person to get the heal) this makes healing a secondary defense. There is a reason you see zero NB tanks in pvp now. Heavy armor doesnt synergize well with NB unless you want to go proctard potato tremorscale setup that people use here and there. secondary defense like HoTs cannot compete with the burst. Your 600 tick HP a second wont save you from my 20k IC. You need either burst heals or shields. What does leave? Block, dodge roll, shields, cloak.

I refer to @NightbladeMechanics. NB even has passives that specifically scale off heavy armor. NB tank is just not meta right now. Neither is mageblade in general, outside of some obnoxious bomb-blade builds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZES4RlNrfU

As far as cloak goes, since Homestead, it appears to function like a dodge roll, causing targeted abilities to miss. This is an incredibly powerful buff. I am not sure why so many people are still complaining about it. Sure it doesn't purge dots like it used to, but for the most part, they won't pop you out. Yeah, curse is a counter. It's not a hard counter. As far as splash damage abilities like silver shards and reflective light, I am not sure if they are working as intended. On the one hand, you could say they are AoE so they hit and reveal you. On the other, you could say that they are dodgeable, so they shouldn't. Of course you can cloak out of a channeled ability like RD, which can't be dodged. So maybe cloak is unique like that. I would suggest not being too close to people as a general rule anyway: you never know when someone is going to blow them up with VD.

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

I've seen some incredible non-tank mageblade 1vX without even relying on cloak (specifically Vita Belial, who I always stop to watch.) I am absolutely certain that you don't need cloak to be competitive in Cyrodiil. In my personal experience, mageblades use it to be annoying and troll, while stamblades use it to execute cheap ganks. Both okay in small doses, I guess, but rather toxic to pvp as a mainstay.

I'm not entirely sure how many times I have to say this but I'll give it one more go.

This is about a skill working as intended. I could give two ***** about this or that or what have you and how good this other thing is and how well you can do without it. THIS ISN'T WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

I don't NEED cloak (said for a second time? Third time? Maybe fourth?) This is about finding what's skills break cloak THAT AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BREAK IT.

If there was a skill that bypassed shields would you not try and figure out what to have it fixed? If a skill that did something it wasn't programmed to do would you not fix it?

That's what the post is about before butt hurt people who have been ganked by NB's to much, hijacked it.

And my claim about NB and heavy armor still stands true as you can sit there and Google every damn site out there and you will RARELY find an NB PvP tank build. No one cares about them. No one cares about resources or damage when you can't do what a tank does best, which is survive. Surviving comes down to the most basic resource which is heslth. Self healing is a 100% necessity for that to work and NB does not have that type of gameplay that inns with heavy armor.

This is exactly why even after heavy armor got patched NB's around the world are still rocking medium (my favorite) and light armor. Go ahead. Put a heavy DK vs an NB with 2 players of the same skill level and the DK will win.

This isn't a bad thing and I'm literally not even complaining about it. I don't care about heavy armor and I think NB is way better in medium. I'm merely stating an opinion based on observable data, as again, the number of heavy armor NB'setup pale in comparison to those in medium and light. Just as you see other classes more so in heavy than light or medium.

Does this mean an NB can't wear heavy? Of course not. Throw on ravager, black rose, troll king and as long as you know wtf you are doing you'll do great (that's one of my builds that works great). But it not even an arguable fact that NB synergizes with medium or light armor better than heavy, especially compared to DK or temp. I don't care if you find one magical build that works because I can find a dozen medium and light builds that work better.

Jesus. How about we get back to what skills break cloak that aren't supposed to ffs.

Have you even seen my nightblade tank in action? "Can't survive" wtf are you talking about?

And have you seen the build trends for nightblades lately?

Stamblades who aren't ganking and mageblades who aren't bombing wear heavy now as a vast majority. Heavy simply works better, contrary to your points, than light or medium on magicka and stamina nightblade in ALL play style cases except bombing and ganking. Period, end of story. To argue otherwise is incorrect.

You're arguing a point that no one is arguing for. I even said heavy armor can be decent with NB. What's being argued here is that medium and light armor builds are flat out better for NB. Idk wtf trends you are talking about, as if you are reading some insider business Magazine. "Hey look honey! Page two shows and upward trend in heavy armor nightblade! We should invest!"

As I said. Google NB heavy armor builds. Youtube. Go to all the popular build sites. For every 1 heavy armor build there are 10 times the amount of light and medium armor builds out there. It's so easy to just look for yourself. Not one person in any of my PvP guilds wear heavy as an NB. Maybe you just got out of a time machine back when sap tanks were a thing, I don't know.

I really don't know what game you are playing saying "the vast majority" of nightblades are wearing heavy armor. There is no way you're playing ESO.

I can wear just jewelery and kill people. It doesn't mean being naked is effective compared to the other options.

Since when is a random polling of self-proclaimed internet experts going to give you any information of value?

I'm sorry friend, but over 90% of internet builds are garbage, and the good ones come from a small group of players who don't bother with mass produced "build sites." I know because I publish real builds amidst all that noise. And if all of your guildies are using light or medium, then they are either 1) ganking or bombing, 2) intentionally gimping themselves, or 3) woefully uninformed.

Now go play in heavy Fury or Hunding's + Bloodspawn or Selene's + Agility + vma weapons on a stamblade or heavy Julianos + Transmutation + Bloodspawn or Valkyn on a mageblade, and you'll see the difference heavy armor makes.

I was called to this thread to help inform the discussion. Let's keep it civil please.

I will agree that half the builds out there, regardless of armor type are trash lol.

Blood spawn, agility, hundings would be decent. Though I'd like to sub fury or agility out and throw in ravager and see how it would stack up. I used ravager back in dark brotherhood and part way through hist. The 5 pc proc would occur fairly often. Once it proc'd was a good time to go on the defensive. Possibly even throw endurance. Going 5 ravager 5 hundings and 2 blood spawn might produce good burst and with siphoning on the bar sustain would be no issue.

One build I wanted to spend more time with was 2 blood spawn, 5 ravager, 5 black rose. Even with the changes to black rose and constitution I think the damage potential plus sustain would make it quite workable.

I have 2 current medium setups I switch back and forth between. 1 velidreth, 1 kraghs, 5 spriggan, 5 eternal hunt. I sub out eternal hunt for 5 bone pirates sometimes. Bone pirates ends up with better sustain overall and more damage, but I really like the rune from eternal. My physical penetration is 15781 so medium armor targets melt and heavy armor wearers feel like they are wearing light armor. I'm playing around with shattering blows to help with shields as spriggans is useless against them. I wouldn't even mind replacing kraghs for kena because even though lower penetration damage against shielded targets not to mention heals would be better. Does great in duels but I have to wait til they give us CP back in Cyrodiil to test it there.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

That was mentioned to underline how your class is designed with an emphasis on offense. Sorcs also don't have Major Mending because of that.
Slimecraw is a sacrifice you have to make. NBs get Berserk through one of their strongest skills. And can stack it with Kena, Grothdarr, Veli, whatever.
Lastly, if you want a defensive move, you got Minor Maim. And that 5k resists from a PASSIVE, something no other class has.
And MagBlade synergizes very well with Heavy Armor thanks to siphoning. Magsorcs don't, for example.

That's my point: neither sorcs nor NB have Major Mending because they're meant to be a hit-and-run class, sacrificing tankiness for mobility. The issue is NB's mobility, Cloak, is gimped.

Also, the 5k resist passive only lasts for 5-10 seconds, and you still have to slot a skill to use it (most magic NBs slot Refreshing Path to proc this.) Compare Refreshing Path, which gives the caster 8 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, a small HOT while standing in the path, a small DOT to those standing in the path, and Major Expedition for 3 seconds after leaving the path, to Boundless Storm, which gives 15 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, does the same amount of AOE damage as Path but moves with the caster, and gives 7.5 seconds of Major Expedition, and suddenly that NB passive doesn't look so appealing.

Fear and Cloak proc it. Since you wanna activate Fear every five seconds, also refreshing Minor Maim, it's an almost non-existant requirement, really.
Also, you are underestimating the value of Refreshing's HoT.

But, you brought up a good point.
Mobility can indeed be lacking, esoecially on Magblade. Letting Cloak grant snare immunity, just like Shuffle, would go a TREMENDOUS way.
It would make Double Take more appealing. Make Mist and Vamp unnecessary. Make Cloak a desirable action even if you know it's going to be broken right away.
This could actually fix things.

Cloak granting snare immunity or at least removing snares would be good and like you said, make something like double take more appealing. I don't it would be OP considering other classes already slot shuffle anyways. It would be fairly even.

And I agree with whomever said NB's best defense is there offense. I think stuff like shadowy disguise is a perfect example of that. Which is why I want it to work better.

Lord-Otto

Hmhm, could live with that.

BuggeX

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

That was mentioned to underline how your class is designed with an emphasis on offense. Sorcs also don't have Major Mending because of that.
Slimecraw is a sacrifice you have to make. NBs get Berserk through one of their strongest skills. And can stack it with Kena, Grothdarr, Veli, whatever.
Lastly, if you want a defensive move, you got Minor Maim. And that 5k resists from a PASSIVE, something no other class has.
And MagBlade synergizes very well with Heavy Armor thanks to siphoning. Magsorcs don't, for example.

That's my point: neither sorcs nor NB have Major Mending because they're meant to be a hit-and-run class, sacrificing tankiness for mobility. The issue is NB's mobility, Cloak, is gimped.

Also, the 5k resist passive only lasts for 5-10 seconds, and you still have to slot a skill to use it (most magic NBs slot Refreshing Path to proc this.) Compare Refreshing Path, which gives the caster 8 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, a small HOT while standing in the path, a small DOT to those standing in the path, and Major Expedition for 3 seconds after leaving the path, to Boundless Storm, which gives 15 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, does the same amount of AOE damage as Path but moves with the caster, and gives 7.5 seconds of Major Expedition, and suddenly that NB passive doesn't look so appealing.

Fear and Cloak proc it. Since you wanna activate Fear every five seconds, also refreshing Minor Maim, it's an almost non-existant requirement, really.
Also, you are underestimating the value of Refreshing's HoT.

But, you brought up a good point.
Mobility can indeed be lacking, esoecially on Magblade. Letting Cloak grant snare immunity, just like Shuffle, would go a TREMENDOUS way.
It would make Double Take more appealing. Make Mist and Vamp unnecessary. Make Cloak a desirable action even if you know it's going to be broken right away.
This could actually fix things.

cloak should not give immunity but should cleans the root.

cloak should not give you a free Exit of a frost destro ulti or a secure escape of mdks.

Master_Kas

Snare/root purge on cloak or double take is something I'd like to see happen.

Inb4 magsorcs Come and say magblade is fine because they can destroult potato stacks.

Lord-Otto

BuggeX wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No. Healing is a NB's main defense. Then comes block/dodge/shield/cloak.

The skill does exactly what was described. You get in fast, without crouch speed penalty. You can even be faster with Concealed. You then get to choose a guaranteed strong opening attack or a bit damage mitigation, which helps bring in a long combo.
It does indeed take heat off of you mid-combat, just not the full duration. Even if it takes me one second to break your cloak, that's one second with inferior damage output on my side and might screw my combo. If it takes me more time, which is likely, you gained an advantage.

I'm with you to fix certain unintended skills pulling you out of it. But I'm strongly against making it work reliably all the time, that would be stupidly OP. I remember very well Cloak purging off my MagDK's DoTs, resetting the fight whenever the NB pleased. This is what would happen to all other classes, if Cloak didn't have numerous counters.

If healing is our main defense, like how healing is the main defense for DK and Templar, then why don't we have Major Mending like DK and Templar?

Because you have Minor Berserk, unlike anyone else.

Berserk increases damage, though, not healing. If we're meant to rely on heals then why don't we have Major Mending?

Also, Slimecraw gives every class the option to run Minor Berserk easily. It's not unique to NB.

That was mentioned to underline how your class is designed with an emphasis on offense. Sorcs also don't have Major Mending because of that.
Slimecraw is a sacrifice you have to make. NBs get Berserk through one of their strongest skills. And can stack it with Kena, Grothdarr, Veli, whatever.
Lastly, if you want a defensive move, you got Minor Maim. And that 5k resists from a PASSIVE, something no other class has.
And MagBlade synergizes very well with Heavy Armor thanks to siphoning. Magsorcs don't, for example.

That's my point: neither sorcs nor NB have Major Mending because they're meant to be a hit-and-run class, sacrificing tankiness for mobility. The issue is NB's mobility, Cloak, is gimped.

Also, the 5k resist passive only lasts for 5-10 seconds, and you still have to slot a skill to use it (most magic NBs slot Refreshing Path to proc this.) Compare Refreshing Path, which gives the caster 8 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, a small HOT while standing in the path, a small DOT to those standing in the path, and Major Expedition for 3 seconds after leaving the path, to Boundless Storm, which gives 15 seconds of Major Resolve/Major Ward, does the same amount of AOE damage as Path but moves with the caster, and gives 7.5 seconds of Major Expedition, and suddenly that NB passive doesn't look so appealing.

Fear and Cloak proc it. Since you wanna activate Fear every five seconds, also refreshing Minor Maim, it's an almost non-existant requirement, really.
Also, you are underestimating the value of Refreshing's HoT.

But, you brought up a good point.
Mobility can indeed be lacking, esoecially on Magblade. Letting Cloak grant snare immunity, just like Shuffle, would go a TREMENDOUS way.
It would make Double Take more appealing. Make Mist and Vamp unnecessary. Make Cloak a desirable action even if you know it's going to be broken right away.
This could actually fix things.

cloak should not give immunity but should cleans the root.

cloak should not give you a free Exit of a frost destro ulti or a secure escape of mdks.

Hm, I wasn't even thinking about roots. In a way, Mist should remain a good argument for vampirism, but not a necessity.

How about morph choices? As in Shadowy Disguise grants snare immunity, Dark Cloak cleanses roots (has root cleanse cooldown of two secs). Move Cloak guaranteed crit to passive (maybe add to Master Assassin), scrap Cloak damage reduction, ain't nobody needs that crab.

So that way, you'd have two interesting morphs, and with Mist you had both effects at once. Root cleanse cooldown of two should allow you to evade EotS root spamzergs, but should leave DKs a chance, I think.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I think I'd go with snare immunity if that was an option. It would give the mobility the class meshes with.

PrinceRyzen

A few things.

Cloak hasn't always forced single target abilities to miss. It was always "supposed" to. But has been broken and undependable for this intended use. Homestead was supposed to fix it but there are still abilities breaking it that shouldn't hence the thread.

Healing is not a NB main defense and yes cloak is meant to get NB in and out of fights. (Suprised to see someone attempt to say the opposite)

Every other class can rely on their defense abilities to work. There is zero reason NBs shouldn't. Cloak has been overly countered as is. (more than any other ability in game) The fact it fails in situations it's intended to work is why so many go "meta." Gank, bomb or heavy.

Edit: an improvement like snare immunity or even "gasp" ye ole purge would be nice. But thats in addition to having it work when its intended to.

xboxone1Q

My 300 spear

Lord-Otto

Well, to the people saying Cloak is a NB's primary defense,
Play a week without Cloak (use Mist, maybe).
Play a week without heals of any kind.

Somewhere on the road, your views on NBs became twisted, as you've been given so much. Now that you took an indirect nerf for a change, I think people just have to re-learn their class.
Cloak is equal to Streak and Wings. Heals to shields. I can't force you to realize this, can just tell you.
NBs, the ASSASSIN class, still oneshots from stealth. You still get what you signed up for. Capitalize on it.
Pressure and mobility are still unholy on stamblades. Just force enemy into defense (easy) and LoS then. You will be able to cloak, and even if it gets broken, use your speed to get distance and more LoS. You WILL be able to escape from magicka classes and slower stam classes.

This is all the advice I can give you. Take it or pour salt on your potatoes, I don't care. NBs are not broken, good NBs are still strong.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, to the people saying Cloak is a NB's primary defense,
Play a week without Cloak (use Mist, maybe).
Play a week without heals of any kind.

Somewhere on the road, your views on NBs became twisted, as you've been given so much. Now that you took an indirect nerf for a change, I think people just have to re-learn their class.
Cloak is equal to Streak and Wings. Heals to shields. I can't force you to realize this, can just tell you.
NBs, the ASSASSIN class, still oneshots from stealth. You still get what you signed up for. Capitalize on it.
Pressure and mobility are still unholy on stamblades. Just force enemy into defense (easy) and LoS then. You will be able to cloak, and even if it gets broken, use your speed to get distance and more LoS. You WILL be able to escape from magicka classes and slower stam classes.

This is all the advice I can give you. Take it or pour salt on your potatoes, I don't care. NBs are not broken, good NBs are still strong.

He's right you know

Xvorg

Lord_MK wrote: »

TBH I actually feel cloak is better than it's ever been.

How long have you played here?

Strider_Roshin

A shorter list would be what doesn't break cloak?

Xvorg

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

Have you ever tried soul syphon in PvP?

I mean, I've never, ever seen it...

NightbladeMechanics

Xvorg wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

NB has access to whatever heals go with their build, either healing ward or rally/vigor. As far as a class burst heal, you know Soul Siphon is the most powerful heal in the game. Even more powerful than templar and resto ults.

Have you ever tried soul syphon in PvP?

I mean, I've never, ever seen it...

Soul Siphon is the most powerful burst heal and hot in the game, but it has 4 main issues:

1) It doesn't prevent incoming damage via mitigation like those other ults, meaning it needs to be cast after people get bursted to deliver the burst heal, which is hugely risky to attempt in the heat of the moment.

2) Its hot lasts only 4 seconds, making it easy to wait out and giving it significant downtime.

3) It consumes your ult, making it only really an option on full heal spec builds, which, while effective on mageblade, are rare.

4) And it gets absolutely rekt by aoe caps, leaving many people within its rather large aoe without protection.

Resto ult and Remembrance prioritize low health targets, offer mitigation, and have longer lasting effects. Barrier affects the same number of allies but can be popped ahead of incoming burst, potentially saving a life. Veil lasts way longer and mitigate a ton of damage while dealing damage of its own.

There are just way better options in practical fights.

Heal/support mageblade is so fun to play. It's actually my favorite archetype within my class, but our class tools are rather lacking compared to others'.

H4RDFOX

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, to the people saying Cloak is a NB's primary defense,
Play a week without Cloak (use Mist, maybe).
Play a week without heals of any kind.

Somewhere on the road, your views on NBs became twisted, as you've been given so much. Now that you took an indirect nerf for a change, I think people just have to re-learn their class.
Cloak is equal to Streak and Wings. Heals to shields. I can't force you to realize this, can just tell you.
NBs, the ASSASSIN class, still oneshots from stealth. You still get what you signed up for. Capitalize on it.
Pressure and mobility are still unholy on stamblades. Just force enemy into defense (easy) and LoS then. You will be able to cloak, and even if it gets broken, use your speed to get distance and more LoS. You WILL be able to escape from magicka classes and slower stam classes.

This is all the advice I can give you. Take it or pour salt on your potatoes, I don't care. NBs are not broken, good NBs are still strong.

I would like to know which builds you are referencing here. I will admit that certain NB builds do well with their abilities, and adapt to changes, but the discussion is on cloak, and the numerous ways it can be broken, which I believe I am accurate in saying that it shouldn't. Some of those good builds rely on HA, and most specifically Kena build HA CA/spinners. I think most Magblades would like to run LA and have their cloak work 100% of the time.