REMOVE STEALTH DETECT POTIONS ALREADY!

Edziu

boundsy88 wrote: »

Stealth Detect not only should not be removed, but the duration of the potions should be increased to what they use to be or at least to be longer than they are now. They nerfed them in the IC patch because the theory was everyone had to be a nightblade in there to make any stones and get away with them.

Stealth Detection is the only balance to counter Xv1 gankers. If im fighting a nightblade and they hide from me for more than 5 seconds you can bet im popping a detect pot on you, if you dont your death recap will end up with their name on it when other people start fighting you due to the excessive cowardice of almost every nightblade in the game.

I practically main a stam and magicka nightblade, so there is no bias here whatsoever.

yeah, lets kill more nightblades, more nb especially stam *** can spam some more cloak are on regen without max health food...so under 20k health and without this cloak for longer duration they will be just screwed

give me damn potion which will prevent for holding block for some time and pot which will prevent you from using damage shield and pot preventing you from casting insta heal jak BoL, combat prayer etc, I will be able to kill you easily like you are able to rekt any nb who cant go into stealth and without rolldodge monkey build

EDIT: @boundsy88 maybe just remove nightblades ans stealth from game? it will be much easier to balance then and fix pvp

montjie

boundsy88 wrote: »

Stealth Detection is the only balance to counter Xv1 gankers. If im fighting a nightblade and they hide from me for more than 5 seconds you can bet im popping a detect pot on you, if you dont your death recap will end up with their name on it when other people start fighting you due to the excessive cowardice of almost every nightblade in the game.

This.
Those rare occasions a nb ganks me in the middle of nowhere and im pretty sure hes alone Noxious Breath is more than enough to fend him/her off if he is a sub decent player.
But going to retake a res at a high profile keep youd be silly not to expect at least 3 of those cowards hiding somewhere along the main path people take.
Detect pots saved my ass many times in situations like that.

Also some people dont want the *** hassle to wait untill the nb decides to hit you again....You wanna hide from me? No way lets get this crap over here nd now.

montjie

elfantasmo wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

OP just wants his opponents to be like training skeletons, but with less health and AP rewards after they die

Get real...

Another comprehensive analysis. GJ.

Just didnt feel like pointing out why it would be a bad idea as many others have already done that.
Its maybe a blunt analysis but in this case its quite accurate. So whats your problem?

arkansas_ESO

@Wrobel , can I trade my Cloak for Streak? I'd much rather have a guaranteed re positioning tool with an increasing cost penalty than a buggy skill which can be hard countered by a consumable.

Edziu

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

@Wrobel , can I trade my Cloak for Streak? I'd much rather have a guaranteed re positioning tool with an increasing cost penalty than a buggy skill which can be hard countered by a consumable.

This^^^

every yout heals, shields, streaks have 100% to work at all

cloak is so ***, you have only chance to go into damn stealth and it wont work in an ground aoe like other defensive skills will work everywhere

Sylosi

evoprimes wrote: »

Can you please remove this stupid concept in this game?

Well really the stupid concept is "stealth" (as in invisibility rather than an actual stealth mechanic like you got in games like Thief, Dishonored, etc), in an any sort of open world PvP type setting stealth is simply broken to the point you can't balance it, it either favours the person using it far too much, with far too little information and feedback to the opponent or you get what are borderline hardcounters like detect pots in effort to balance it, it is a bad mechanic that should not be in a game (at least for vaguely open world type modes).

LuminaLilly

It seems wrobelblades want everyone to be on par with target skeletons. And they qq the forums when they can't instagib someone by pressing a button.

Minalan

LuminaLilly wrote: »

It seems wrobelblades want everyone to be on par with target skeletons. And they qq the forums when they can't instagib someone by pressing a button.

The nightblade crying has been epic this patch. Sorcs can counter them a little with curse. They lost easy mode one button ganking with the proc set nerf. Evasion is no longer free permadodge. The unchained passive is no longer "free stamina forever" passive.

Learning to play is hard, I'm sure some of them will manage. The rest will leave or re-roll and the game will be more fun for everyone.

Now if they fix permablocking and EoTS this is going to be great.

Lord-Otto

I hate stealth in this game because it is not stealth. You're not using line of sight or field of view to sneak up on your target. You're not even sneaking. You just press a button and become permanently invisible. In open field. It's ridiculous and makes me cry over actual stealth games I played, like Hitman, Dishonored, (AC), and suchlike.
Just an emotional addendum because reasons.

LuminaLilly

Minalan wrote: »

LuminaLilly wrote: »

It seems wrobelblades want everyone to be on par with target skeletons. And they qq the forums when they can't instagib someone by pressing a button.

The nightblade crying has been epic this patch. Sorcs can counter them a little with curse. They lost easy mode one button ganking with the proc set nerf. Evasion is no longer free permadodge. The unchained passive is no longer "free stamina forever" passive.

Learning to play is hard, I'm sure some of them will manage. The rest will leave or re-roll and the game will be more fun for everyone.

Now if they fix permablocking and EoTS this is going to be great.

I'm a bit uneasy about the re rolling part. Cyrodiil will be infested with everyone who re roll magicka DK.

The moment you step out of a keep, fossilized.

Xvorg

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Detect pots are not class breaking . They're not all that reliable either . I use them and have them used against me . If you are getting spotted all the time try a Nights Terror set .

Night terror + twin sisters + permablocking...

OK not...

Xvorg

First of all, gankers look for horse riders, ideally those who have little to no stam (in their horse), so the stun is something. If you go horse and you have not maxed stam, then you will be an easy prey and not even magelifgt is gonna save you.

Second, if somebody survives a gank enough time to cast magelight, then look first at your build. Does it have many proc sets? If yes, then the crit nerf to procs is your answer. Look for something else since proc sets are not going to help you anymore.

If you meet all the requirements to gank and kill a guy and you can't, then look for something else. Does he have radiant mage light slotted? Does he wear heavy? Maybe a shield?

Onec everything mentioned above fails, look for something else: is cloak he only defensive skill? Do you have mass hysteria to save you? Do you have a skill that heals you while running away BESIDES vigor? I have foud draining shot one of the most useful skills open world for disabling an enemy, cloak and heal.

I don't like magelight either, but I understand it is a necessary skill to counter cloak, same as detect pots, otherwise everyone at cyro would be a NB.

Minno

This thread reminds me of some nicknames for the classes:
Nightblades = "Salt spreaders"
Sorcs = "O.G. Nerfed class"
Templars = "Forum-plars"
Dragonknights = "most ignored class"

That said, stealth is still very strong and there are counters available. Removing one of these counters is not recommended. And we should have balanced discussions regarding the upcoming Battlegrounds, not cyro open sandbox.

Docmandu

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

@Wrobel , can I trade my Cloak for Streak? I'd much rather have a guaranteed re positioning tool with an increasing cost penalty than a buggy skill which can be hard countered by a consumable.

cloak, speed, shadow image teleport... how many more tools do you want to "reposition" yourself?!

arkansas_ESO

Docmandu wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

@Wrobel , can I trade my Cloak for Streak? I'd much rather have a guaranteed re positioning tool with an increasing cost penalty than a buggy skill which can be hard countered by a consumable.

cloak, speed, shadow image teleport... how many more tools do you want to "reposition" yourself?!

Cloak is easily countered, I don't even slot it unless I'm trying to gank. Mist Form is objectively better because it's not a wasted cast if I touch a stam sorc's Hurricane or if the person I'm fighting is running detect pots.

Your speed as a magic NB comes from the extra stealth speed from Concealed Weapon, which requires you to use Cloak (which you shouldn't, because it's easily countered) and Concealed Weapon (which Strife is objectively better.) Also, there's not much speed in the first place: snares are everywhere in PVP and you have no effective way to purge them.

Shadow Image is good, but can only be used infrequently (you have to put distance between you and the shade for it to be effective in the first place) and it isn't very good unless it's coupled with something else, like Cloak, which, again, you don't slot because it sucks.

So, yeah, we've got a lot of tools, but none of them are effective. Again, I'll trade Cloak for Streak in a heartbeat.

olsborg

No, being revealed does not stop you from healing you know...or other means of defence.

DaveMoeDee

Detect pots need to be pretty strong considering some people are giving up the potion slot just to counter a single class.

Edziu

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I hate stealth in this game because it is not stealth. You're not using line of sight or field of view to sneak up on your target. You're not even sneaking. You just press a button and become permanently invisible. In open field. It's ridiculous and makes me cry over actual stealth games I played, like Hitman, Dishonored, (AC), and suchlike.
Just an emotional addendum because reasons.

if in eso it will work in this way like in games what you mentioned...then you will almost never find and nb ganger because cyrodil is so empty map, option for nb ganger will be only keeps, maybe resources but in opwen world outside keeps cyrodil is very empty in places where is chance for any pvp action

you are righ about true stealth bu as I wrote...it isnt possible because of just empty pvp map

Hurika

I say leave detect pots but add "ignore dodgeroll", "bypass shields" and "bypass block" potions that work the same way. I mean if we have pots that negate 1 defensive ability, lets spread it evenly across defenses.

Minalan

Hurika wrote: »

I say leave detect pots but add "ignore dodgeroll", "bypass shields" and "bypass block" potions that work the same way. I mean if we have pots that negate 1 defensive ability, lets spread it evenly across defenses.

Stealth already allows you to bypass those things because you strike when the enemy isn't doing any of those. That's what surprise attack means.

Now that Miats add-on is gone, nobody knows that you're there, lurking. Until it's too late. That's how stealth is supposed to work and why that addon was so broken.

steussy

evoprimes wrote: »

Hello Zenimax,

Can you please remove this stupid concept in this game?

As it really breaks a whole class, the Nightblade.

Or you can just add other potions to remove shields and prevent healing )

Thank you for your understanding.

How bout no.

Lord-Otto

Edziu wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I hate stealth in this game because it is not stealth. You're not using line of sight or field of view to sneak up on your target. You're not even sneaking. You just press a button and become permanently invisible. In open field. It's ridiculous and makes me cry over actual stealth games I played, like Hitman, Dishonored, (AC), and suchlike.
Just an emotional addendum because reasons.

if in eso it will work in this way like in games what you mentioned...then you will almost never find and nb ganger because cyrodil is so empty map, option for nb ganger will be only keeps, maybe resources but in opwen world outside keeps cyrodil is very empty in places where is chance for any pvp action

you are righ about true stealth bu as I wrote...it isnt possible because of just empty pvp map

I know.
(<_>)

thankyourat

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

@Wrobel , can I trade my Cloak for Streak? I'd much rather have a guaranteed re positioning tool with an increasing cost penalty than a buggy skill which can be hard countered by a consumable.

cloak, speed, shadow image teleport... how many more tools do you want to "reposition" yourself?!

Cloak is easily countered, I don't even slot it unless I'm trying to gank. Mist Form is objectively better because it's not a wasted cast if I touch a stam sorc's Hurricane or if the person I'm fighting is running detect pots.

Your speed as a magic NB comes from the extra stealth speed from Concealed Weapon, which requires you to use Cloak (which you shouldn't, because it's easily countered) and Concealed Weapon (which Strife is objectively better.) Also, there's not much speed in the first place: snares are everywhere in PVP and you have no effective way to purge them.

Shadow Image is good, but can only be used infrequently (you have to put distance between you and the shade for it to be effective in the first place) and it isn't very good unless it's coupled with something else, like Cloak, which, again, you don't slot because it sucks.

So, yeah, we've got a lot of tools, but none of them are effective. Again, I'll trade Cloak for Streak in a heartbeat.

This is what I think alot of people don't think of. I been trying to play my magblade without annulment or mist form just cloak, conceal for the speed, and shadow image. It's almost impossible sometimes because cloak is so easily countered. Once you are in a fight an ability like streak outperforms cloak. Where cloak is really only good at starting the fight undetected, but if you are a magblade most of the times you aren't one-shotting anyone from stealth. Cloak on a magblade is more for repositioning but it doesn't work every because everyone knows how to counter it. The only plus is that if you teleport than cloak you can run away if you take too much aggro. I encourage everyone who thinks that stealth is too strong to create a magblade and play in cyrodiil with cloak and see for yourself how strong it is. It's a reason why most magblades don't even slot cloak. The grass is not always greener on the other side

LegendaryChef

Coming from a stam NB main I think detection potions are more than fair. I guess it might be because I have just grown accustom to the fact that when I press my key to cloak I now count it as a bonus if it's actually successful and more often than not use cloak only for the armour buff

Apart from invisibility potions and cloak I'd honestly like to see the stealth system completely removed though I have to say.

Metemsycosis

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Buff Magelight and Revealing Flare! We should not have to use up our potion cooldown.

Radiant mage light is a op stealth counter though. You can't be stunned, you take 50℅ less damage and it has a 12 meter radius. The only problem is people always pick the inner light morph for more damage. Sometimes if you want to counter something you have to give up some damage.

Incap still stuns, DBoS leaves you on the ground flopping with a DOT, and RML doesn't prevent fear.

You just avoid some damage and a stun on the stealth opener. Most people survive that fine if they build for it now since proc sets can't crit.

People don't use the radiant morph because it doesn't help as much as the extra max magicka. A good NB will pop fear and incap as soon as they see their opponent survive the opener. You're stunned no matter what.

Radiant mage light is a nightblade forum warrior straw man. Nothing more.

I have no video proof, but true story I 1v1d a flawless conqueror night blade a handful of times. The only time I won was the first one due to rml and a failed horse gank. I was horse ganked zero times successfully while running rml. Without it, in light armor, and six second shields. You do the math

Moglijuana

Nah. Running Detect pots on my Gankblade is amazing. Nothing like using one and seeing groups of try hard gank groups and taking them out one by one =D

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Docmandu wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

@Wrobel , can I trade my Cloak for Streak? I'd much rather have a guaranteed re positioning tool with an increasing cost penalty than a buggy skill which can be hard countered by a consumable.

cloak, speed, shadow image teleport... how many more tools do you want to "reposition" yourself?!

So play a mage blade then? Hold on, let me put concealed weapon, shadow image, and cloak on my stamina blade. You basically asking me to be what people hate, which is a ganker. That's a ganker bar. Ganking is all NB is good for now. There is a reason people are rerolling.

I'm not saying the class is unplayable but what I am saying is that people put to much stock into cloak by saying how good it is when itshe terrible.

Nightblade is last place in both PvE and PvP. There have already been several tests available for your viewing pleasure to validate this. A lot of NB's have gone full gank builds because competing with other classes metas is rediculous. If a NB messes up once there is no recovering or magicka one button heal or 25k shield. Any good player can work around cloak. Cloak is no longer the go to escape button that's why 99% of NB's are using eternal hunt to get people off then to get a heal in. NB about to cloak? Spam a gap closer. Use a detect pot. Us caltrops. Use steel tornado. Spam sweeps over and over. Inner light. Curse. Literally any AoE which every class has. There are even more counters as well.

Want to stop ganking, fix the class to be something other than only a ganker.

Lord-Otto

Well, it IS the assassin class. Siphoning or no, they have that ganking gimmick, it's one of their strengths. You can't just give them everything, we wouldn't need classes, then.

It'd be perplexing if Templars started out-dps'ing class cannon sorcs while being able to heal. If sorcs could tank the world while pumping out AoE of mass destruction. Or Dragonknights tanking a zerg and then cloaking away to gank the stragglers.

Should NBs be viable in duels? Absolutely. Should they be on par with group-focused classes while retaining ganking capabilities? No. You want solo play, choose the solo class. You want group play, choose the group class (templar, sorc, ...). I think that is a fair tradeoff choice you have to make there.

TrueGreenSmoker

I love it when I pop a detect and the nb tries to cloack non stop HAHAHA you mine now!
But even tho I sometimes use detect pots there are nbs who straight up fight without using cloack for the time being, roll dodging healing up, also what do you do if you gank a guy who has radiant magelight on their bar and you do no damage against them out of stealth you cloack and run away??? or do you stay and fight if you say fight I won't believe you lol

rimmidimdim

I'm a stam NB. If you get rid of detect pots, Make cloak only able to best cast when in combat, or even only when after breaking free of cc. Maybe it should be like this anyway. Would help ride of one shot gankers. Also ride vamps of stealth speed would help this. My thoughts. Cheers.