Proccs are not "fixed" with no crit, they are asenine, just critless-asenine. (pic)

Arthg

@Xeniph

It seems to me you're drifting away from the topic at hand - not ganking, or "unfair" playstyles or whatever, but the *free*, devastating RNG damage proc sets allow.

Surely there must be way to have reasonably short, skill-based fights without these random spikes.

The problem is (in my view, but I may be wrong, as I'm no expert, just a passionate casual who hates cheese/meta/fotm) that it seems impossible nowadays to kill someone without either a proc set or eots/f.
This means that the entire balance revolves around these spikes - which do not require any skills and pigeonhole everybody into a limited set of builds.

I personally hate this meta with a vengeance

worsttankever

@Xeniph Great anti-gank advice! Much appreciated!

technohic

Arthg wrote: »

@Xeniph

It seems to me you're drifting away from the topic at hand - not ganking, or "unfair" playstyles or whatever, but the *free*, devastating RNG damage proc sets allow.

Surely there must be way to have reasonably short, skill-based fights without these random spikes.

The problem is (in my view, but I may be wrong, as I'm no expert, just a passionate casual who hates cheese/meta/fotm) that it seems impossible nowadays to kill someone without either a proc set or eots/f.
This means that the entire balance revolves around these spikes - which do not require any skills and pigeonhole everybody into a limited set of builds.

I personally hate this meta with a vengeance

I think they know. They mentioned ganking without proc sets in an earlier post, and that is still possible today. Only thing is now; there are proc sets that also can keep you alive and a lot more heavy armor users so finding a target to gank without proc sets is harder.

I am with you though. I just want people to have to act and react and have that be more than whether they got a proc or not. I think it was fine at first, when procs just gave some bonuses here and there, but once they started hitting harder than an attack that is scaled off of stat pools and damage; it crossed a line.

kadar

Um.

olsborg wrote: »

And this is just one example, its far worse when more then one players are atking you, and that happens 90% of the time because the meta is still, PROCCS.
@Wrobel open your eyes pls.

I mean...that's far, far better than pre-update. Would have been 5.5k Viper and 10k Selene...15.5k damage from procs vs. the 10.8k you actually took. Most of Cyrodiil runs around with even less Impen than you do.

The argument that proc sets not critically striking won't effect PVP is what is truly asinine...

ManDraKE

The_Outsider wrote: »

I mean...that's far, far better than pre-update.

There is a difference between "better" and "less worse".

Nellzer

NBrookus wrote: »

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

So, it really isn't a catch-up at all, the sets cancel each other out on the great and average players, and you're left with the difference in skill the was there in the first place.

This is only true if you play a class with access to sets with this kind of synergy; mostly stamina. Since the OP is in medium, they do -- but then it's just a contest of who attacks first and gets lucky RNG with their procs. That doesn't leave room for skillful play.

While it's true magicka users don't benefit from this, they do have an unblockable ult that can wipe 30+ players with 2-3 people. Pretty equally imbalanced.

And as far as your RNG statement, that's not true at all. Unless you're running a glass cannon build, you shouldn't just be randomly dying mid fight without putting yourself in a risky position. I can be out 1vXing multiple people using proc sets, avoid a lot of their damage/cc and setup a kill on one of them, even with multiple procs going off. It's called outplay and proc sets do NOT eliminate it. Sure, every once in awhile the stars will align and you get instagibbed, but, as another poster eluded to, that can happen without proc sets, it's a part of PvP.

Gilvoth

StackonClown wrote: »

Zos does care - and actually, they have some awesome players at their offices to provide them with feedback which covers the whole playing community.. so there's a good chance what you mention may already be under discussion.
You can watch out for some youtube updates once the meetings are finished.

and that in my belief is pure Garbage.
what those youtubers and streamers are saying does not represent me nor my friends nor my guildmates nor people in zone chats opinions.
those are bias opinions of those utubers and streamers alone and that is just Wrong!

DHale

Selene hit you after incap which buffs damage, correct? My incaps hit people for 11k. Proc sets are not going to stop you (or anyone else) from getting rolled by stam NB"s.

NBrookus

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

So, it really isn't a catch-up at all, the sets cancel each other out on the great and average players, and you're left with the difference in skill the was there in the first place.

This is only true if you play a class with access to sets with this kind of synergy; mostly stamina. Since the OP is in medium, they do -- but then it's just a contest of who attacks first and gets lucky RNG with their procs. That doesn't leave room for skillful play.

While it's true magicka users don't benefit from this, they do have an unblockable ult that can wipe 30+ players with 2-3 people. Pretty equally imbalanced.

And as far as your RNG statement, that's not true at all. Unless you're running a glass cannon build, you shouldn't just be randomly dying mid fight without putting yourself in a risky position. I can be out 1vXing multiple people using proc sets, avoid a lot of their damage/cc and setup a kill on one of them, even with multiple procs going off. It's called outplay and proc sets do NOT eliminate it. Sure, every once in awhile the stars will align and you get instagibbed, but, as another poster eluded to, that can happen without proc sets, it's a part of PvP.

The destro ult is another kettle of fish and I quite agree it's part of the unskillful new meta that encourages 1) zerging 2) ganking.

As a mag DK I am *always* in a risky position. 5 meter embers. 6 meter talons. 8 meter whip. We don't have range and we don't have the mobility to kite in and out.

Yesterday, I dueled a stamplar and won the first two duels. Third duel, her Selene proc'd three times in a row with the new backlash morph up. Despite having near capped resists and 29k health, it was game over for me. Pure RNG decided the duel. And this user wasn't even stacking multiple proc sets or set up for ganking.

How should I have outplayed that? If the answer is, well sometimes the stars align, then you are making my point for me.

Nellzer

NBrookus wrote: »

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

So, it really isn't a catch-up at all, the sets cancel each other out on the great and average players, and you're left with the difference in skill the was there in the first place.

This is only true if you play a class with access to sets with this kind of synergy; mostly stamina. Since the OP is in medium, they do -- but then it's just a contest of who attacks first and gets lucky RNG with their procs. That doesn't leave room for skillful play.

While it's true magicka users don't benefit from this, they do have an unblockable ult that can wipe 30+ players with 2-3 people. Pretty equally imbalanced.

And as far as your RNG statement, that's not true at all. Unless you're running a glass cannon build, you shouldn't just be randomly dying mid fight without putting yourself in a risky position. I can be out 1vXing multiple people using proc sets, avoid a lot of their damage/cc and setup a kill on one of them, even with multiple procs going off. It's called outplay and proc sets do NOT eliminate it. Sure, every once in awhile the stars will align and you get instagibbed, but, as another poster eluded to, that can happen without proc sets, it's a part of PvP.

The destro ult is another kettle of fish and I quite agree it's part of the unskillful new meta that encourages 1) zerging 2) ganking.

As a mag DK I am *always* in a risky position. 5 meter embers. 6 meter talons. 8 meter whip. We don't have range and we don't have the mobility to kite in and out.

Yesterday, I dueled a stamplar and won the first two duels. Third duel, her Selene proc'd three times in a row with the new backlash morph up. Despite having near capped resists and 29k health, it was game over for me. Pure RNG decided the duel. And this user wasn't even stacking multiple proc sets or set up for ganking.

How should I have outplayed that? If the answer is, well sometimes the stars align, then you are making my point for me.

You won 2/3 duels...hopefully the outplay was in those which allowed you to win the 'series.' You will not find ANY PvP in an MMO that doesn't have elements of RNG involved that ultimately decide fights. Mace stun plagued WoW for an eternity, if you didn't experience this, it was absolutely ridiculous. This was when the game was in its peak E-sports moments too, and arena matches were won and lost around random mace stuns.

That's just a small example, the point is, RNG will always exist in MMORPG PvP, complaining about losing 1/3 duels because of it is dumb, it's part of the game.

Synozeer

ManDraKE wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

yeah, selene and velidreth are still hitting too hard, even without crits the base damage is huge, the tooltip is higher than dawnbreaker and incap (and those are ultimates...).

Don't forget to include the Surprise Attack debuff that applied on all the following attacks.

but that is a debuff from a class skilline, nothing wrong with that. Proc sets get buffed by everything, the problem is not "everything", the problem are the proc sets.

I just meant for why the procs were hitting for high damage. Surprise Attack debuffed armor and Incap increased damage.

olsborg

DHale wrote: »

Selene hit you after incap which buffs damage, correct? My incaps hit people for 11k. Proc sets are not going to stop you (or anyone else) from getting rolled by stam NB"s.

This particular "episode" is just evidence that the proccsets is what caused me to die, if it wasnt for all of his proccsets hitting simultaneously, I would have lived, wich is the case in 90% of the times I die to a stamina build. You dont get outskilled, you get RNGed, wich just makes you feel like ***, because youre not pveing, youre pvpeing. RNG in pvp is just ...as I said it...asenine.

BlackMadara

NBrookus wrote: »

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

jrhauck7ub17_ESO wrote: »

So, it really isn't a catch-up at all, the sets cancel each other out on the great and average players, and you're left with the difference in skill the was there in the first place.

This is only true if you play a class with access to sets with this kind of synergy; mostly stamina. Since the OP is in medium, they do -- but then it's just a contest of who attacks first and gets lucky RNG with their procs. That doesn't leave room for skillful play.

While it's true magicka users don't benefit from this, they do have an unblockable ult that can wipe 30+ players with 2-3 people. Pretty equally imbalanced.

And as far as your RNG statement, that's not true at all. Unless you're running a glass cannon build, you shouldn't just be randomly dying mid fight without putting yourself in a risky position. I can be out 1vXing multiple people using proc sets, avoid a lot of their damage/cc and setup a kill on one of them, even with multiple procs going off. It's called outplay and proc sets do NOT eliminate it. Sure, every once in awhile the stars will align and you get instagibbed, but, as another poster eluded to, that can happen without proc sets, it's a part of PvP.

The destro ult is another kettle of fish and I quite agree it's part of the unskillful new meta that encourages 1) zerging 2) ganking.

As a mag DK I am *always* in a risky position. 5 meter embers. 6 meter talons. 8 meter whip. We don't have range and we don't have the mobility to kite in and out.

Yesterday, I dueled a stamplar and won the first two duels. Third duel, her Selene proc'd three times in a row with the new backlash morph up. Despite having near capped resists and 29k health, it was game over for me. Pure RNG decided the duel. And this user wasn't even stacking multiple proc sets or set up for ganking.

How should I have outplayed that? If the answer is, well sometimes the stars align, then you are making my point for me.

Burning light proccing on multiple jabs or critting multiple times in a row can have the same effect. There is more rng in this game than just proc sets.

What do you mean by it proccing 3 times in a row? As in it proc'd every 4 seconds on cd?

timidobserver

Xeniph wrote: »

worsttankever wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

IMO that's incredibly unfun and unfair. I hope for more than Tamriel Horse Simulator, especially if geared for tankiness and not caught unaware.

If you are actually geared for Tankiness, it won't happen. Unless you are terribly outgeared or are bad.

However those folks that receive their tankiness from 20k of shields stacks deserve what they get if they let their shields drop. Or those that rely on stealth to mitigate damage and are not in it.

However you may need to rethinks your definition of tankiness if you aren't sporting 25k+ resistances and have atleast 25-26k health with a shiled equipped. Otherwise you are just a hybrid dps. Aka Dps with a bit of survivability.

Knowing when to block, breaking free in a timely manner, using radiant magelight is usually enough to make a gank completely fail.
Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

I can respect you don't enjoy that playstyle, therefore you probably adjust your playstyle to combat it. But I have no sympathy for the folks that jus add a few hp's and don't do anything to counter the playstyle and just complain.

It's super simple to avoid/neuter gankers if you use the counters and gear properly for what I like to call "Visible" combat play. I do it with all my other classes to great success, when I get bored of ganking.

As to unfair. If you want that, you may need to look into duels. Or you could group up and shift the advantage to you. As the single most unfair thing in pvp is being outnumbered, which results in much more damage per second than all the proc sets combined.

I have never understood the "unfair" argument. It's not like we all have the same abilities/stats/class/race/gear...let alone the same hardware running the game (pc) or ping. Nothing is ever fair.

For the most part this is true. However, some gankers are harder to counter than others. Particularly if they are working in tandem.

Also, breaking free isn't always as responsive as it should be. Fear is notorious for lasting a split second longer than it should after being cc broken. That doesn't even get into the rare floppy fish or double cc.

Xeniph

timidobserver wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

worsttankever wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

IMO that's incredibly unfun and unfair. I hope for more than Tamriel Horse Simulator, especially if geared for tankiness and not caught unaware.

If you are actually geared for Tankiness, it won't happen. Unless you are terribly outgeared or are bad.

However those folks that receive their tankiness from 20k of shields stacks deserve what they get if they let their shields drop. Or those that rely on stealth to mitigate damage and are not in it.

However you may need to rethinks your definition of tankiness if you aren't sporting 25k+ resistances and have atleast 25-26k health with a shiled equipped. Otherwise you are just a hybrid dps. Aka Dps with a bit of survivability.

Knowing when to block, breaking free in a timely manner, using radiant magelight is usually enough to make a gank completely fail.
Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

I can respect you don't enjoy that playstyle, therefore you probably adjust your playstyle to combat it. But I have no sympathy for the folks that jus add a few hp's and don't do anything to counter the playstyle and just complain.

It's super simple to avoid/neuter gankers if you use the counters and gear properly for what I like to call "Visible" combat play. I do it with all my other classes to great success, when I get bored of ganking.

As to unfair. If you want that, you may need to look into duels. Or you could group up and shift the advantage to you. As the single most unfair thing in pvp is being outnumbered, which results in much more damage per second than all the proc sets combined.

I have never understood the "unfair" argument. It's not like we all have the same abilities/stats/class/race/gear...let alone the same hardware running the game (pc) or ping. Nothing is ever fair.

For the most part this is true. However, some gankers are harder to counter than others. Particularly if they are working in tandem.

Also, breaking free isn't always as responsive as it should be. Fear is notorious for lasting a split second longer than it should after being cc broken. That doesn't even get into the rare floppy fish or double cc.

True, true. However you won't be instagibbed ever if you use the counters, unless you are outnumbered. In which case nothing would have saved you aside from someone to help you anyway most likely.

Arthg wrote: »

@Xeniph

It seems to me you're drifting away from the topic at hand - not ganking, or "unfair" playstyles or whatever, but the *free*, devastating RNG damage proc sets allow.

Surely there must be way to have reasonably short, skill-based fights without these random spikes.

The problem is (in my view, but I may be wrong, as I'm no expert, just a passionate casual who hates cheese/meta/fotm) that it seems impossible nowadays to kill someone without either a proc set or eots/f.
This means that the entire balance revolves around these spikes - which do not require any skills and pigeonhole everybody into a limited set of builds.

I personally hate this meta with a vengeance

You are right, I drifted due to the SS specifically being from a NB.
However I think my point that without proc sets burst is predictable and with all the defensive sets available to classes with a reliable heal on top of the removal of soft caps, more people would be impossible to kill.

I look at it this way. Those sorcs that can stack 20k+ shields make them immune to crits and they can be refreshed at will. We all know these guys and have watched 5+ people trying to kill a turtling magicka sorc. I personally would not like to see everyone be able to do this. I think the RNG burst from these sets bring a bit of "unpredictability" to game play.

Now do I think that it was the right direction to go, no not really. However I do believe that with the current state of the game they are needed atm.

Reefo

i only mentioned resistance coz if proc sets cant crit, thats the only thing that will reduce the damage, normally selene is very easy to avoid unless you get hit by a reverb bash or incap like op did, viper tho, gosh, that hits much harder than iv ever seen in my death recap when it was critable, tho i run a medium nightblade with bloodspawn so my guy feels heavy, normally i see viper only adding like 2 - 2.5k every 4 sec. without a global cool down what is one supposed to do to defend against this crap, put some resistance thats what.

Waffennacht

Reefo wrote: »

i only mentioned resistance coz if proc sets cant crit, thats the only thing that will reduce the damage, normally selene is very easy to avoid unless you get hit by a reverb bash or incap like op did, viper tho, gosh, that hits much harder than iv ever seen in my death recap when it was critable, tho i run a medium nightblade with bloodspawn so my guy feels heavy, normally i see viper only adding like 2 - 2.5k every 4 sec. without a global cool down what is one supposed to do to defend against this crap, put some resistance thats what.

This is why everyone is moving into HA

Reefo

Waffennacht wrote: »

This is why everyone is moving into HA

i remember seeing 1 guy say "magicka sorc wear light, stamina nightblade wear medium, anything else wear heavy"

best advise ever.

Derra

Xeniph wrote: »

Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

Those attacks all hit within a little more than 1 second for OP. Meaning he can´t possibly block or dodge anything but the last suprise attack - because he was in breakfree animation.

Also he´s one of the best NBs on the eu server (who actually plays the class an doesn´t just gank). Making assumptions about someones ability to play the game for whatever reason without having seen gameplay always makes you look like an

Jsmalls

Xeniph wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

I personally love proc sets, without them burst is more predictable.

You just went full potato. Never go full potato

I did say "To each their own" AND You took the quoted out of context. I love playing against proc sets.

I could say the exact same thing of people that roam in a duo or more about "going potato". It's all subjective.

Complaint about proc sets simply boils down to the fact that someone died and didn't like it.

To give an example, I have a build that does upwards of 35k in one shot with absolutely zero proc sets and people still complain.

Some people expect fair and equal fights in Cyrodiil. In which case you might as well head to Rawl and duel all day. My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

@Xeniph
To the "I have a build" let's be serious it's an Onslaught build... And it feeds the lack of skill in this game. Can we all agree that Zos implements these ridiculous things in this game, and just not abuse it!?!? Are you seriously having fun 1 shotting a player because they didn't feel like keeping all their buffs up 24/7 outside of combat?? Not to mention this particular build goes straight through some defensive buffs...

Geez why can't players have any sense of self pride or dignity. Why do so many people resort to effortless kills... Buff, empower, ultimate, stealth and run.

Derra

Xeniph wrote: »

You are right, I drifted due to the SS specifically being from a NB.
However I think my point that without proc sets burst is predictable and with all the defensive sets available to classes with a reliable heal on top of the removal of soft caps, more people would be impossible to kill.

I look at it this way. Those sorcs that can stack 20k+ shields make them immune to crits and they can be refreshed at will. We all know these guys and have watched 5+ people trying to kill a turtling magicka sorc. I personally would not like to see everyone be able to do this. I think the RNG burst from these sets bring a bit of "unpredictability" to game play.

Now do I think that it was the right direction to go, no not really. However I do believe that with the current state of the game they are needed atm.

5 people who cannot kill a turtling magica sorc simply suck at the game. period. I´m highly in favor of nerfing shieldstacking but these exaggerations don´t help any bit in that situation.

Also your last statement is shortsighted (if we´re being nice). There´s the possibility to build insanely tanky. That´s a problem.
The solution is "oviously" to provide enough offensive power (with itemsets) that anything not insanely tanky is no longer effectively playable? Really?

Yeah that´s a smart solution.

timidobserver

Xeniph wrote: »

True, true. However you won't be instagibbed ever if you use the counters, unless you are outnumbered. In which case nothing would have saved you aside from someone to help you anyway most likely.

Arthg wrote: »

@Xeniph

It seems to me you're drifting away from the topic at hand - not ganking, or "unfair" playstyles or whatever, but the *free*, devastating RNG damage proc sets allow.

Surely there must be way to have reasonably short, skill-based fights without these random spikes.

The problem is (in my view, but I may be wrong, as I'm no expert, just a passionate casual who hates cheese/meta/fotm) that it seems impossible nowadays to kill someone without either a proc set or eots/f.
This means that the entire balance revolves around these spikes - which do not require any skills and pigeonhole everybody into a limited set of builds.

I personally hate this meta with a vengeance

You are right, I drifted due to the SS specifically being from a NB.
However I think my point that without proc sets burst is predictable and with all the defensive sets available to classes with a reliable heal on top of the removal of soft caps, more people would be impossible to kill.

I look at it this way. Those sorcs that can stack 20k+ shields make them immune to crits and they can be refreshed at will. We all know these guys and have watched 5+ people trying to kill a turtling magicka sorc. I personally would not like to see everyone be able to do this. I think the RNG burst from these sets bring a bit of "unpredictability" to game play.

Now do I think that it was the right direction to go, no not really. However I do believe that with the current state of the game they are needed atm.

Xeniph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

worsttankever wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

IMO that's incredibly unfun and unfair. I hope for more than Tamriel Horse Simulator, especially if geared for tankiness and not caught unaware.

If you are actually geared for Tankiness, it won't happen. Unless you are terribly outgeared or are bad.

However those folks that receive their tankiness from 20k of shields stacks deserve what they get if they let their shields drop. Or those that rely on stealth to mitigate damage and are not in it.

However you may need to rethinks your definition of tankiness if you aren't sporting 25k+ resistances and have atleast 25-26k health with a shiled equipped. Otherwise you are just a hybrid dps. Aka Dps with a bit of survivability.

Knowing when to block, breaking free in a timely manner, using radiant magelight is usually enough to make a gank completely fail.
Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

I can respect you don't enjoy that playstyle, therefore you probably adjust your playstyle to combat it. But I have no sympathy for the folks that jus add a few hp's and don't do anything to counter the playstyle and just complain.

It's super simple to avoid/neuter gankers if you use the counters and gear properly for what I like to call "Visible" combat play. I do it with all my other classes to great success, when I get bored of ganking.

As to unfair. If you want that, you may need to look into duels. Or you could group up and shift the advantage to you. As the single most unfair thing in pvp is being outnumbered, which results in much more damage per second than all the proc sets combined.

I have never understood the "unfair" argument. It's not like we all have the same abilities/stats/class/race/gear...let alone the same hardware running the game (pc) or ping. Nothing is ever fair.

For the most part this is true. However, some gankers are harder to counter than others. Particularly if they are working in tandem.

Also, breaking free isn't always as responsive as it should be. Fear is notorious for lasting a split second longer than it should after being cc broken. That doesn't even get into the rare floppy fish or double cc.

True, true. However you won't be instagibbed ever if you use the counters, unless you are outnumbered. In which case nothing would have saved you aside from someone to help you anyway most likely.

Eh, the counters aren't as great as you make them out to be. For example, Radiant Magelight isn't nearly as effective as it used to be given that most ganks consist of a flurry of simultaneous procs rather than a few really big hits. The most effective way to avoid being ganked is hanging out in the center of the largest group you can find, which is bad because it contributes toward pushing people into zergs.

I've seen some pretty tanky people get instagibbed. It's pretty rare and depends heavily on the caliber of the ganker(s), but I've seen some full tanks get instagibbed by as few as two gankers.

The point of all of this being that the proc set critical change did not impact gankers a whole lot. Most of them were already doing way more damage than they needed to kill the average target anyway.

Minalan

Derra wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

Those attacks all hit within a little more than 1 second for OP. Meaning he can´t possibly block or dodge anything but the last suprise attack - because he was in breakfree animation.

Also he´s one of the best NBs on the eu server (who actually plays the class an doesn´t just gank). Making assumptions about someones ability to play the game for whatever reason without having seen gameplay always makes you look like an

Lol. Derra that was awesome. And also on point as usual. Seriously though, there's no counter to most ganking other than maybe timing an immovable pot before their opening attack. Good luck with that.

olsborg

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

Those attacks all hit within a little more than 1 second for OP. Meaning he can´t possibly block or dodge anything but the last suprise attack - because he was in breakfree animation.

Also he´s one of the best NBs on the eu server (who actually plays the class an doesn´t just gank). Making assumptions about someones ability to play the game for whatever reason without having seen gameplay always makes you look like an

Lol. Derra that was awesome. And also on point as usual. Seriously though, there's no counter to most ganking other than maybe timing an immovable pot before their opening attack. Good luck with that.

If you can see into the future maybe:)

Dredlord

Reefo wrote: »

you got hit with a non-crit 3685 viper proc... if this guys tooltip is 8500 (mighty CP and minor berserk)
then that means you have like 13% resistance with armor and CP combined.

ie: 3685 x2 (battle spirit) = 7370
(8500 - 7370) / 8500 = 13.3% before 50% damage reduction on battle spirit.

thats like sorc with shields down and all points in bastion, but since you got healed by vigor, either playing with someone or your resistances are so low and have no CP in hardy as a stam build.

very strange.

Hi my name is penetration, it seems like we have never met before...

imapogostick

Xeniph wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

worsttankever wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

My idea of "fun" pvp is the ability to put people down before they can react and attempt to get away from their friends, to do it all over again. /shrug

IMO that's incredibly unfun and unfair. I hope for more than Tamriel Horse Simulator, especially if geared for tankiness and not caught unaware.

If you are actually geared for Tankiness, it won't happen. Unless you are terribly outgeared or are bad.

However those folks that receive their tankiness from 20k of shields stacks deserve what they get if they let their shields drop. Or those that rely on stealth to mitigate damage and are not in it.

However you may need to rethinks your definition of tankiness if you aren't sporting 25k+ resistances and have atleast 25-26k health with a shiled equipped. Otherwise you are just a hybrid dps. Aka Dps with a bit of survivability.

Knowing when to block, breaking free in a timely manner, using radiant magelight is usually enough to make a gank completely fail.
Take the OP's screenshot. He didn't block once, didn't roll dodge, and probably didn't break free in time. Now some of that could have been due to ping rate, who knows.

I can respect you don't enjoy that playstyle, therefore you probably adjust your playstyle to combat it. But I have no sympathy for the folks that jus add a few hp's and don't do anything to counter the playstyle and just complain.

It's super simple to avoid/neuter gankers if you use the counters and gear properly for what I like to call "Visible" combat play. I do it with all my other classes to great success, when I get bored of ganking.

As to unfair. If you want that, you may need to look into duels. Or you could group up and shift the advantage to you. As the single most unfair thing in pvp is being outnumbered, which results in much more damage per second than all the proc sets combined.

I have never understood the "unfair" argument. It's not like we all have the same abilities/stats/class/race/gear...let alone the same hardware running the game (pc) or ping. Nothing is ever fair.

For the most part this is true. However, some gankers are harder to counter than others. Particularly if they are working in tandem.

Also, breaking free isn't always as responsive as it should be. Fear is notorious for lasting a split second longer than it should after being cc broken. That doesn't even get into the rare floppy fish or double cc.

True, true. However you won't be instagibbed ever if you use the counters, unless you are outnumbered. In which case nothing would have saved you aside from someone to help you anyway most likely.

Arthg wrote: »

@Xeniph

It seems to me you're drifting away from the topic at hand - not ganking, or "unfair" playstyles or whatever, but the *free*, devastating RNG damage proc sets allow.

Surely there must be way to have reasonably short, skill-based fights without these random spikes.

The problem is (in my view, but I may be wrong, as I'm no expert, just a passionate casual who hates cheese/meta/fotm) that it seems impossible nowadays to kill someone without either a proc set or eots/f.
This means that the entire balance revolves around these spikes - which do not require any skills and pigeonhole everybody into a limited set of builds.

I personally hate this meta with a vengeance

You are right, I drifted due to the SS specifically being from a NB.
However I think my point that without proc sets burst is predictable and with all the defensive sets available to classes with a reliable heal on top of the removal of soft caps, more people would be impossible to kill.

I look at it this way. Those sorcs that can stack 20k+ shields make them immune to crits and they can be refreshed at will. We all know these guys and have watched 5+ people trying to kill a turtling magicka sorc. I personally would not like to see everyone be able to do this. I think the RNG burst from these sets bring a bit of "unpredictability" to game play.

Now do I think that it was the right direction to go, no not really. However I do believe that with the current state of the game they are needed atm.

I think they are ok with proc sets just not sets that hit this hard. Ok if it does 2.5 or 3k dmg that's fine, but 7, 8k for damage that doesn't cost resources or time that's crazy. Proc sets should proc for a little extra burst throughout the fight. They shouldn't be the main focus of a build like ok I'll just shield stack and wait for infernal guardian to proc. Or these valkyn skorias who just apply all dots, block and watch the fireworks

kadar

ManDraKE wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I mean...that's far, far better than pre-update.

There is a difference between "better" and "less worse".

.__________________.


What is the difference? I define a difference of ~5k damage as "better."

I think it would be wise to withhold any judgement about the current state of proc sets for a few more days/weeks. The meta is shifting, and I anticipate a shift away from proctato builds. Hell, I had a conversation w/ a really skilled mSorc the other day (pre-update) after we fought for a solid 5 minutes 1v1. I was completely unable to kill him even without him pressuring me. That said, I was playing a non-gank NB, wearing 1 proc set (Selene's). The point to notice is that my entire build was getting nerfed, and his buffed. There's no doubt in my mind if that situation were to repeat itself now, he'd kill me.

Knootewoot

Since proc sets have a base damage, is it better to PvP on CP campaigns because to to CP I can have more protection and I also do more damage?

Because on non-CP proc sets is all I see and die to

Kajin

"I personally love proc sets, without them burst is more predictable. I don't enjoy 5 minute plus fights, so boring. I love going back through my combat log trying to figure out what destroyed me. Then learning how to avoid that situation or mitigate it.

To each their own."

Proc sets take 0 skills and you like them ?
You love going back through combat log and trying to figure out what destroyed you, And how can you learn to avoid a proc set ? You can't and you like that ?
Or can you tell me how to avoid a viper proc ?

olsborg

Viper, Selene, Velidreth, Tremorscale and Valkyn Skoria is the worst pieces of s proccsets out there, they need nerfed hard af. (tremorscale for the asenine snare)