Why so much hate for NBs?

Lord-Otto

Respect for the Spellsword!


Izaki, think you're yellow? I'm red, so... Battlegrounds!

I think it's better to refer to sorcs as a soft counter to NBs. They have natural strengths against them, but don't completely negate a playstyle, like old DK wings.
However, if a NB kites LoS and only attacks in quick bursts, you'll have a hard time killing it. Surely, they can't kill you, but neither can you kill them. And THEY can run away, sorcs can't.

Father_X_Zombie

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AlphaNicole wrote: »

You forgot 30k ripcaps, perma stuns

Show me a screen shot of someone doing a 30k incap. Please. Oh wait... You're just *** because you can't kill a NB on the hard counter class (Sorc).

[edited to remove profanity masking]

How exactly do sorcs hard counter nbs? From my experience maining sorc and fighting them on my stam nb, most are pretty easy to kill. I just count to 5, fear, ambush, incap and a suprise attack (execute if none of this crits). The only hard counter to nbs i can see is mines but heavy armor can just roll through them. Im not trying to start an argument i just want to see your reasoning.

Sure potato sorcs are easy to kill, not a very good example :P
In my personal opinion, its easier to kill a NB on a Sorc, than to kill a Sorc on NB. If you know what I mean.

Mines prevent that "wait for 5 sec, then Fear" thing, Shields prevent a large part of your burst which comes from critical damage, Curse to pressure you even in stealth, Frag's during gap close, Streak through a roll dodge, Fury that is a insta kill if you ever reach 20%, access to Destro ult which every sorc uses anyway. The only thing that counters NBs harder than sorc is probably magicka DKs with all their DoTs and roots.

Getting a medium armor stamblade to 20% health is easy, like really easy.

Same here, I main a sorc and "second main" stamblade. Thing is when both are good players, although the NB might be able to reset and control the fight more than the Sorc, you have little chance of killing them.

Yea I was kinda against the whole idea of curse being unblockable. Medium armor stamblades are definitely at a disadvantage against Sorcs or really other class for that matter.

You have to remember though, most stamblades run heavy from what Ive seen and average 25-30k health. Most of these builds pop vigor and roll through my mines, without losing Alot of health. If you add a proc set of the users choice to the mix then Sorcs are much easier to deal with. However if your running a non cheese medium build then I agree Sorcs are a pain in the ass.

Not sure how medium stam nbs can be brought up to par with the other classes though without making them OP.

Devilhand

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Respect for the Spellsword!


Izaki, think you're yellow? I'm red, so... Battlegrounds!

I think it's better to refer to sorcs as a soft counter to NBs. They have natural strengths against them, but don't completely negate a playstyle, like old DK wings.
However, if a NB kites LoS and only attacks in quick bursts, you'll have a hard time killing it. Surely, they can't kill you, but neither can you kill them. And THEY can run away, sorcs can't.

Sorcs CANT run away? you high? lol... Streak => Streak => Line of sight + Overload + dark exchange + Defensive rune => Streak => Streak => GONE.

Stam NB dont have a chance against good sorc right now, rather just avoid them. Proble is everyone playing one atm for obvious reasons...

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AlphaNicole wrote: »

You forgot 30k ripcaps, perma stuns

Show me a screen shot of someone doing a 30k incap. Please. Oh wait... You're just *** because you can't kill a NB on the hard counter class (Sorc).

[edited to remove profanity masking]

How exactly do sorcs hard counter nbs? From my experience maining sorc and fighting them on my stam nb, most are pretty easy to kill. I just count to 5, fear, ambush, incap and a suprise attack (execute if none of this crits). The only hard counter to nbs i can see is mines but heavy armor can just roll through them. Im not trying to start an argument i just want to see your reasoning.

Sure potato sorcs are easy to kill, not a very good example :P
In my personal opinion, its easier to kill a NB on a Sorc, than to kill a Sorc on NB. If you know what I mean.

Mines prevent that "wait for 5 sec, then Fear" thing, Shields prevent a large part of your burst which comes from critical damage, Curse to pressure you even in stealth, Frag's during gap close, Streak through a roll dodge, Fury that is a insta kill if you ever reach 20%, access to Destro ult which every sorc uses anyway. The only thing that counters NBs harder than sorc is probably magicka DKs with all their DoTs and roots.

Getting a medium armor stamblade to 20% health is easy, like really easy.

Same here, I main a sorc and "second main" stamblade. Thing is when both are good players, although the NB might be able to reset and control the fight more than the Sorc, you have little chance of killing them.

If the sorc never leaves their mines. Which is an option for dueling - but in cyro?

Cyro isn't a 1v1 so you can't really judge there. If it is, well why not use mines?

thankyourat

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AlphaNicole wrote: »

You forgot 30k ripcaps, perma stuns

Show me a screen shot of someone doing a 30k incap. Please. Oh wait... You're just *** because you can't kill a NB on the hard counter class (Sorc).

[edited to remove profanity masking]

How exactly do sorcs hard counter nbs? From my experience maining sorc and fighting them on my stam nb, most are pretty easy to kill. I just count to 5, fear, ambush, incap and a suprise attack (execute if none of this crits). The only hard counter to nbs i can see is mines but heavy armor can just roll through them. Im not trying to start an argument i just want to see your reasoning.

Sure potato sorcs are easy to kill, not a very good example :P
In my personal opinion, its easier to kill a NB on a Sorc, than to kill a Sorc on NB. If you know what I mean.

Mines prevent that "wait for 5 sec, then Fear" thing, Shields prevent a large part of your burst which comes from critical damage, Curse to pressure you even in stealth, Frag's during gap close, Streak through a roll dodge, Fury that is a insta kill if you ever reach 20%, access to Destro ult which every sorc uses anyway. The only thing that counters NBs harder than sorc is probably magicka DKs with all their DoTs and roots.

Getting a medium armor stamblade to 20% health is easy, like really easy.

Same here, I main a sorc and "second main" stamblade. Thing is when both are good players, although the NB might be able to reset and control the fight more than the Sorc, you have little chance of killing them.

Yea I was kinda against the whole idea of curse being unblockable. Medium armor stamblades are definitely at a disadvantage against Sorcs or really other class for that matter.

You have to remember though, most stamblades run heavy from what Ive seen and average 25-30k health. Most of these builds pop vigor and roll through my mines, without losing Alot of health. If you add a proc set of the users choice to the mix then Sorcs are much easier to deal with. However if your running a non cheese medium build then I agree Sorcs are a pain in the ass.

Not sure how medium stam nbs can be brought up to par with the other classes though without making them OP.

There is no way to buff medium armor stamblade without making them op. But I actually think stamblade is better in medium armor. Heavy is only good for duels. The reason being is heavy armor is all about staying in the fight all of a stamblades "defensive" abilities take them out of the fight so they can't take advantage of the resource passives of heavy armor. It's difficult to sustain in heavy armor on a stamblade it's the only class I feel is like that. As a stamblade I feel you are better off going medium and just avoiding damage all together. Stamblade is still op, it's just the meta that makes it weak. There's so much undodgeable damage, cloak is broken, and the biggest thing is heavy armor is everywhere. If ZoS ever brings heavy armor in line with the other armor class stamblade will be op again. It'll still be difficult to kill a magsorc with but magsorc has always been stronger than stamblade. Even when stamblade was op it was nothing compared to magicka sorc

Lord-Otto

Devilhand wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Respect for the Spellsword!


Izaki, think you're yellow? I'm red, so... Battlegrounds!

I think it's better to refer to sorcs as a soft counter to NBs. They have natural strengths against them, but don't completely negate a playstyle, like old DK wings.
However, if a NB kites LoS and only attacks in quick bursts, you'll have a hard time killing it. Surely, they can't kill you, but neither can you kill them. And THEY can run away, sorcs can't.

Sorcs CANT run away? you high? lol... Streak => Streak => Line of sight + Overload + dark exchange + Defensive rune => Streak => Streak => GONE.

Stam NB dont have a chance against good sorc right now, rather just avoid them. Proble is everyone playing one atm for obvious reasons...

Ambush->Ambush->Ambush->Fear->Ambush->Incap->Sorc out of magicka

AweBiTr

I repeat for you:
Temp =God Heals
Sorc= Shields with a nuke do

Answer:
There are buff in Cyrodiil Battle Spirit that reduce heal and shield 50% and this 2 class becomes fully ***, because their advantages destroyed

AweBiTr

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I'm saying Stamblades deal a lot of damage fast and can do so while simultaneously defending. Play those cards right and you have a competent open world class.
Can it compete with stamsorcs? No. Not at all.
But that is not my point. My point is being oneshot without any window for counterplay is frustrating.

Izaki, you can wind up your heavy while WB is being cast. Start WB, charge your heavy, they'll hit simultaneously.

NO I lost my all stamina for break free, when i atacked NB he uses 5 rolls and i again i loose all my stamina then he kill me with magic skills.... EZ death

deepseamk20b14_ESO

NB's were an issue perhaps several patches ago. Especially when everyone was a rolly polly (though any class could do it, perhaps not as effectively) and when you could vigor while cloaked. Now I think NB is pretty weak. It's weak in PvE and it's weak in PvP. THIS DOESN'T MEAN you can do great things with them. You can still make them work, however I feel an NB can't make mistakes without paying dearly for them where as other classes can make several and be okay. Like someone else posted, the nerfed what made NB good but didn't buff where it was weak. Now the class is overly dependent on gear to get the most out of them.

I'd honestly complain (if complaining was something I did) more about tanky templars than NB's. I don't know what it is about them but when I get them to execute range and suddenly they are at full health and as an NB I can't get that kind of health back. The only real way to do so is to vigor, cloak, rally, attack again, but when the templar is spamming biting jabs you cannot even cloak. Effectively shuts the entire class of NB down lol. Well timed fears I guess. That's more of a personal problem though hahahaha.

AweBiTr

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

NB's were an issue perhaps several patches ago. Especially when everyone was a rolly polly (though any class could do it, perhaps not as effectively) and when you could vigor while cloaked. Now I think NB is pretty weak. It's weak in PvE and it's weak in PvP. THIS DOESN'T MEAN you can do great things with them. You can still make them work, however I feel an NB can't make mistakes without paying dearly for them where as other classes can make several and be okay. Like someone else posted, the nerfed what made NB good but didn't buff where it was weak. Now the class is overly dependent on gear to get the most out of them.


NB can cloak... In most casses it save them... also NB have nice skills to stun... 100 chance to crit...

Xvorg

AweBiTr wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

NB's were an issue perhaps several patches ago. Especially when everyone was a rolly polly (though any class could do it, perhaps not as effectively) and when you could vigor while cloaked. Now I think NB is pretty weak. It's weak in PvE and it's weak in PvP. THIS DOESN'T MEAN you can do great things with them. You can still make them work, however I feel an NB can't make mistakes without paying dearly for them where as other classes can make several and be okay. Like someone else posted, the nerfed what made NB good but didn't buff where it was weak. Now the class is overly dependent on gear to get the most out of them.

NB can cloak... In most casses it save them... also NB have nice skills to stun... 100 chance to crit...

Sure? Because magelight is everywhere. And empowers everything.

Father_X_Zombie

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Respect for the Spellsword!


Izaki, think you're yellow? I'm red, so... Battlegrounds!

I think it's better to refer to sorcs as a soft counter to NBs. They have natural strengths against them, but don't completely negate a playstyle, like old DK wings.
However, if a NB kites LoS and only attacks in quick bursts, you'll have a hard time killing it. Surely, they can't kill you, but neither can you kill them. And THEY can run away, sorcs can't.

Sorcs CANT run away? you high? lol... Streak => Streak => Line of sight + Overload + dark exchange + Defensive rune => Streak => Streak => GONE.

Stam NB dont have a chance against good sorc right now, rather just avoid them. Proble is everyone playing one atm for obvious reasons...

Ambush->Ambush->Ambush->Fear->Ambush->Incap->Sorc out of magicka

This, every time.

Isellskooma

Nightblades are a bug in this game, remove them.

Strider_Roshin

thankyourat wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

AlphaNicole wrote: »

You forgot 30k ripcaps, perma stuns

Show me a screen shot of someone doing a 30k incap. Please. Oh wait... You're just *** because you can't kill a NB on the hard counter class (Sorc).

[edited to remove profanity masking]

How exactly do sorcs hard counter nbs? From my experience maining sorc and fighting them on my stam nb, most are pretty easy to kill. I just count to 5, fear, ambush, incap and a suprise attack (execute if none of this crits). The only hard counter to nbs i can see is mines but heavy armor can just roll through them. Im not trying to start an argument i just want to see your reasoning.

Sure potato sorcs are easy to kill, not a very good example :P
In my personal opinion, its easier to kill a NB on a Sorc, than to kill a Sorc on NB. If you know what I mean.

Mines prevent that "wait for 5 sec, then Fear" thing, Shields prevent a large part of your burst which comes from critical damage, Curse to pressure you even in stealth, Frag's during gap close, Streak through a roll dodge, Fury that is a insta kill if you ever reach 20%, access to Destro ult which every sorc uses anyway. The only thing that counters NBs harder than sorc is probably magicka DKs with all their DoTs and roots.

Getting a medium armor stamblade to 20% health is easy, like really easy.

Same here, I main a sorc and "second main" stamblade. Thing is when both are good players, although the NB might be able to reset and control the fight more than the Sorc, you have little chance of killing them.

Yea I was kinda against the whole idea of curse being unblockable. Medium armor stamblades are definitely at a disadvantage against Sorcs or really other class for that matter.

You have to remember though, most stamblades run heavy from what Ive seen and average 25-30k health. Most of these builds pop vigor and roll through my mines, without losing Alot of health. If you add a proc set of the users choice to the mix then Sorcs are much easier to deal with. However if your running a non cheese medium build then I agree Sorcs are a pain in the ass.

Not sure how medium stam nbs can be brought up to par with the other classes though without making them OP.

There is no way to buff medium armor stamblade without making them op. But I actually think stamblade is better in medium armor. Heavy is only good for duels. The reason being is heavy armor is all about staying in the fight all of a stamblades "defensive" abilities take them out of the fight so they can't take advantage of the resource passives of heavy armor. It's difficult to sustain in heavy armor on a stamblade it's the only class I feel is like that. As a stamblade I feel you are better off going medium and just avoiding damage all together. Stamblade is still op, it's just the meta that makes it weak. There's so much undodgeable damage, cloak is broken, and the biggest thing is heavy armor is everywhere. If ZoS ever brings heavy armor in line with the other armor class stamblade will be op again. It'll still be difficult to kill a magsorc with but magsorc has always been stronger than stamblade. Even when stamblade was op it was nothing compared to magicka sorc

I disagree. I think @Derra came up with a great suggestion a while ago. The suggestion was to give medium armor a passive that'll give 150 crit resistance per piece of medium armor. Doing this will give medium armor increased survivability while at the same time not making it OP.

aslan06

People complaining a lot about NB ganking too much,but what else can we do?if we go straight to DK or Templar(which is extrimly OP)we just get destroyed.

Isellskooma

aslan06 wrote: »

People complaining a lot about NB ganking too much,but what else can we do?if we go straight to DK or Templar(which is extrimly OP)we just get destroyed.

Dks aren't overpowered...

Xvorg

Yesterday I tried my magicka NB again, as I used it prior to Dark Brotherbug.

First of all, glad that cloak works again.

Second, flame staff is great, and full heavy outta nowhere does REAL dmg (except for miat's addon users)

Third, I tried impale and worked... but not so much (it must be used as a spammable in PvP and that's like 1k dmg if you are lucky). I switched for force pulse and it is way better.

Minalan

Isellskooma wrote: »

aslan06 wrote: »

People complaining a lot about NB ganking too much,but what else can we do?if we go straight to DK or Templar(which is extrimly OP)we just get destroyed.

Dks aren't overpowered...

Neither are nightblades anymore really. The proc set crit nerf and incap cost increase was enough.

Minalan

Xvorg wrote: »

Yesterday I tried my magicka NB again, as I used it prior to Dark Brotherbug.

First of all, glad that cloak works again.

Second, flame staff is great, and full heavy outta nowhere does REAL dmg (except for miat's addon users)

Third, I tried impale and worked... but not so much (it must be used as a spammable in PvP and that's like 1k dmg if you are lucky). I switched for force pulse and it is way better.

I thought ZOS patched the heavy attack notification out of stealth. Please tell me that's not working...

Xvorg

Minalan wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Yesterday I tried my magicka NB again, as I used it prior to Dark Brotherbug.

First of all, glad that cloak works again.

Second, flame staff is great, and full heavy outta nowhere does REAL dmg (except for miat's addon users)

Third, I tried impale and worked... but not so much (it must be used as a spammable in PvP and that's like 1k dmg if you are lucky). I switched for force pulse and it is way better.

I thought ZOS patched the heavy attack notification out of stealth. Please tell me that's not working...

IDK, I cloak as much as I can.

Huggelz

Playing melee magicka NB has me questioning my existence sometimes, they are just so weak when compared to any other class. Since 1.5 they've lost the tools to really succeed in melee and you are forced to go ranged if you want to be competitive at all. Hopefully one day they fix the issues it has and makes it great again.

thankyourat

Huggelz wrote: »

Playing melee magicka NB has me questioning my existence sometimes, they are just so weak when compared to any other class. Since 1.5 they've lost the tools to really succeed in melee and you are forced to go ranged if you want to be competitive at all. Hopefully one day they fix the issues it has and makes it great again.

Melee magblade is still really fun to play if you just accept the fact that you are going to get one shotted from time to time. I still feel it hits pretty hard. And you have more burst damage than a Ranged build well at least before homestead you did. With the destro buffs it will probably be pretty close now. But a soul tether, merciless combo from a dual wield magblade will pretty much rip through anyone. I find the biggest weakness for melee magblade is not having enough bar space for all the abilities you need. I don't know how they would address that. And the fact that cloak isn't a purge anymore hurt alot as well

technohic

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, the problem is that you don't get pulled out of stealth for winding up heavies and certain skills. And that you can combine certain windups.
WB+Heavy+Execute all hit in one second. Snipe+Heavy+Injection, too.

WB+Heavy doesn't hit in one second neither does Snipe+Heavy. Why? Because you can't animation cancel skills with a cast time. I thought everyone knew that.

Yeah; I don't get this common complaint. It actually seems better to use heavy plus ambush or some instant. Someone please show me how to get a snipe and heavy bow attack to hit at the same time. Then it wouldn't matter what class.

Huggelz

thankyourat wrote: »

Huggelz wrote: »

Playing melee magicka NB has me questioning my existence sometimes, they are just so weak when compared to any other class. Since 1.5 they've lost the tools to really succeed in melee and you are forced to go ranged if you want to be competitive at all. Hopefully one day they fix the issues it has and makes it great again.

Melee magblade is still really fun to play if you just accept the fact that you are going to get one shotted from time to time. I still feel it hits pretty hard. And you have more burst damage than a Ranged build well at least before homestead you did. With the destro buffs it will probably be pretty close now. But a soul tether, merciless combo from a dual wield magblade will pretty much rip through anyone. I find the biggest weakness for melee magblade is not having enough bar space for all the abilities you need. I don't know how they would address that. And the fact that cloak isn't a purge anymore hurt alot as well

Nah ranged has more burst and sustained damage now by far, being able to use a destro ult and then hit someone with merciless is far superior to soul tether and merciless. Melee is fun sometimes but it just lacks alot of things and trying to compensate it with gear never solves all the issues it has. There is always something you are missing.

Hearts_Wake

Fix cloak. Howdowdat

Lord-Otto

technohic wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, the problem is that you don't get pulled out of stealth for winding up heavies and certain skills. And that you can combine certain windups.
WB+Heavy+Execute all hit in one second. Snipe+Heavy+Injection, too.

WB+Heavy doesn't hit in one second neither does Snipe+Heavy. Why? Because you can't animation cancel skills with a cast time. I thought everyone knew that.

Yeah; I don't get this common complaint. It actually seems better to use heavy plus ambush or some instant. Someone please show me how to get a snipe and heavy bow attack to hit at the same time. Then it wouldn't matter what class.

1. Snipe
2. Charge Heavy
3. Poison Injection
4. Three hits at once

WacArnold

Sav72 wrote: »

DK =Reflect
Temp =God Heals
Sorc= Shields with a nuke dot
NB, broken hidden, any thing can unstealth you, I vanish and Radiant Destruction stills doing damage to me.

Where is the common sense to this ZEN?

PFT.....

Right on point.

My mage blade was my first character and is my favorite class to play had him for over a year now. It sucks this class has really got the shaft. I have tried many different builds gear and play styles and it comes down to this just like you said, and I'm talking about good players not scubs, a good dk is so tanky they can heal up enough to stay out of execute while laying down heavy damage. A good templar can heal up so quick to stay out of execute while hitting hard. And sorcs can stack shields while dishing out mass damage. Now when I say mass damage for all these classes I'm talking about against nbs. Nbs are squishy. If cloak would always work and they could not be pulled out of stealth being squishy would be justified. But cloak is a half ass skill.
I have resorted to gawking and patiently waiting for opportunities to strike you really have to pick the right battles and catch good players off guard because straight up both buffed like in a duel NB is an under dog. I dk about stam nbs but I know magblades are low on the pecking order. I mean how many magblades do you see compares to other classes, not saying they are scarce but they are definitely out numbered.

Strider_Roshin

Good thing they nerfed Incap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfCLgnezOlI&t=32s

ManDraKE

Minalan wrote: »

I thought ZOS patched the heavy attack notification out of stealth. Please tell me that's not working...

no they didn't, is still working.

Minalan

ManDraKE wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I thought ZOS patched the heavy attack notification out of stealth. Please tell me that's not working...

no they didn't, is still working.

So much for a ZOS 'promise'. They said it would get patched API server side to remove that as well.

Is it just heavy attacks, or any kind?