Add cast times to BOL and Vigor

AzuraKin

threefarms wrote: »

Balance PVP, maybe. You'll *** off a shi.t load of PVE players.

i dont care if pvers get pissed off. balance the game, every damage skill, every heal, a counter. no animation cancelling period. you cast dk's reflect scales, enemies watching you can see them, you cast wrecking blow, a heavy weapon attack whatever players watching can see it. to have a balanced game, everything and anything in pvp must have a counter.

ScooberSteve

I have seen some bad ideas in my time but this takes the cake

White wabbit

Breath of life I think is the least of the issues that needs addressing

Bandit1215

Paraflex wrote: »

Best mag heal in the game is BOL and it's a smart heal.

Best stam heal in the game is Vigor and it's a heal over time.

I think by adding a cast time of 1.5 seconds would help balance PvP in the game. I think people will have to adjust to the new pace of the game. Having the best heals in the game interruptible will make people use other skills like healing springs which is strong but you have to target an area and actually think about the placement.

Pros -
Healing will be skillful
You will have to think about your timing
No more spamming BOL for Templars of any type
Good bye block casting BOL bots.
Less heals per second which changes the meta.
1v1s will go faster
Zergs will die faster

Cons-
Shields could be used more frequently
You get bashed but that's the risk you take.
Tons of stam classes will be upset about this.
Could effect PVE but iv done enough trials healing springs and healing orbs do the job.


This game is way to easy to heal. Iv played a long list of PvP games and never seen a healing Templar be so effective and tanky at the same time. I usually heal in PvP groups and I am very effective at it.

After all the changes BOL has had over the years I still think it's to strong. This is coming from a healer Templar. Yes I play damage and have a flawless Mag NB so I'm not clueless on how damage works in the game.

You can see with Stam sorcs dark deal in the game is still very effective. Changes like this could be healthy for the game. Although I think it's bugged right now as you get resources even when it's bashed.

Iv added some videos of myself in action healing groups it's just to easy to heal on Templars.

Nerf my favorite class and style for the greater good of PvP!

https://youtu.be/SyeGXPZ_uxk

https://youtu.be/jpyxR0ixQaI

My only issue is that vigor, while good, is still just a hot. Adding a cast time will only slightly affect it. I think it should still be instant, but make the total healing received take longer.

Rohaus

As much as I hate healing in this game... mostly because it is too powerful... adding a cast time would be no bueno!

I'd rather just see better ways at combating OP heals.

Fasalla is good but you have to be attacked in order for it to work.

Major Defile is also solid but with how strong healing is, I can hit someone with Major Defile but still see that person go from low health to full health instantly.

Major Defile should be 50% reduction to healing. That would go a long way towards helping to kill a target that is getting mad heals.

Brutusmax1mus

Let's add a cast time to all dps skills too. Then let's add a cast time to blocking! And roll dodging so you can't dodge the first attack.

Oompuh

PvP is not the only thing in this game. Putting a cast time on BoL and Vigor would put a large strain on healers and tanks respectively in end-game trials.

Not just no... hell no.

Minno

Akinos wrote: »

No, just no. Defiantly not on BoL. Once a templar starts spamming BoL, often times thats the only skill you'll use until you are either out of resources or help arrives. Especially in this proc heavy insta kill meta. Vigor on the other hand, you can cast it and just keep on fighting, fire and forget basically.

Putting a cast time on BoL would effectively make that skill worthless, might as well use ritual at that point. Putting a cast time on Vigor? That might work? I don't know.

Though, oddly enough BoL could get buffed by Soulshine.

But regardless, op doesn't realize the strength of Templar isn't the spamable skill, it's that at low health the Templar does more healing plus has access to major mending. He would still have to learn to use a healing debuff+drain our stamina before going in for the kill.

They should just nerf reactive/malubeth and re visit the overall dmg/healing numbers for all classes.

maxjapank

No freaking way. Leave breath and vigor alone. I swear, some people have no sense. Quit trying to change things that don't need changed.

Paraflex

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Best mag heal in the game is BOL and it's a smart heal.

Best stam heal in the game is Vigor and it's a heal over time.

I think by adding a cast time of 1.5 seconds would help balance PvP in the game. I think people will have to adjust to the new pace of the game. Having the best heals in the game interruptible will make people use other skills like healing springs which is strong but you have to target an area and actually think about the placement.

Pros -
Healing will be skillful
You will have to think about your timing
No more spamming BOL for Templars of any type
Good bye block casting BOL bots.
Less heals per second which changes the meta.
1v1s will go faster
Zergs will die faster

Cons-
Shields could be used more frequently
You get bashed but that's the risk you take.
Tons of stam classes will be upset about this.
Could effect PVE but iv done enough trials healing springs and healing orbs do the job.


This game is way to easy to heal. Iv played a long list of PvP games and never seen a healing Templar be so effective and tanky at the same time. I usually heal in PvP groups and I am very effective at it.

After all the changes BOL has had over the years I still think it's to strong. This is coming from a healer Templar. Yes I play damage and have a flawless Mag NB so I'm not clueless on how damage works in the game.

You can see with Stam sorcs dark deal in the game is still very effective. Changes like this could be healthy for the game. Although I think it's bugged right now as you get resources even when it's bashed.

Iv added some videos of myself in action healing groups it's just to easy to heal on Templars.

Nerf my favorite class and style for the greater good of PvP!

https://youtu.be/SyeGXPZ_uxk

https://youtu.be/jpyxR0ixQaI

My only issue is that vigor, while good, is still just a hot. Adding a cast time will only slightly affect it. I think it should still be instant, but make the total healing received take longer.

If there was a cast time added to Vigor you would have to adjust the healing to a BOL burst type heal and remove the Hot aspect....I agree not sure what the best solution is

xaraan

BoL is no longer best mag heal in the game. And also, this wouldn't make them equal to DE unless they also restored stam/magicka in addition to health.

White wabbit

Paraflex wrote: »

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Paraflex wrote: »

Best mag heal in the game is BOL and it's a smart heal.

Best stam heal in the game is Vigor and it's a heal over time.

I think by adding a cast time of 1.5 seconds would help balance PvP in the game. I think people will have to adjust to the new pace of the game. Having the best heals in the game interruptible will make people use other skills like healing springs which is strong but you have to target an area and actually think about the placement.

Pros -
Healing will be skillful
You will have to think about your timing
No more spamming BOL for Templars of any type
Good bye block casting BOL bots.
Less heals per second which changes the meta.
1v1s will go faster
Zergs will die faster

Cons-
Shields could be used more frequently
You get bashed but that's the risk you take.
Tons of stam classes will be upset about this.
Could effect PVE but iv done enough trials healing springs and healing orbs do the job.


This game is way to easy to heal. Iv played a long list of PvP games and never seen a healing Templar be so effective and tanky at the same time. I usually heal in PvP groups and I am very effective at it.

After all the changes BOL has had over the years I still think it's to strong. This is coming from a healer Templar. Yes I play damage and have a flawless Mag NB so I'm not clueless on how damage works in the game.

You can see with Stam sorcs dark deal in the game is still very effective. Changes like this could be healthy for the game. Although I think it's bugged right now as you get resources even when it's bashed.

Iv added some videos of myself in action healing groups it's just to easy to heal on Templars.

Nerf my favorite class and style for the greater good of PvP!

https://youtu.be/SyeGXPZ_uxk

https://youtu.be/jpyxR0ixQaI

My only issue is that vigor, while good, is still just a hot. Adding a cast time will only slightly affect it. I think it should still be instant, but make the total healing received take longer.

If there was a cast time added to Vigor you would have to adjust the healing to a BOL burst type heal and remove the Hot aspect....I agree not sure what the best solution is

I can help you with the best solution ! Just leave it alone

Paraflex

Minno wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

No, just no. Defiantly not on BoL. Once a templar starts spamming BoL, often times thats the only skill you'll use until you are either out of resources or help arrives. Especially in this proc heavy insta kill meta. Vigor on the other hand, you can cast it and just keep on fighting, fire and forget basically.

Putting a cast time on BoL would effectively make that skill worthless, might as well use ritual at that point. Putting a cast time on Vigor? That might work? I don't know.

Though, oddly enough BoL could get buffed by Soulshine.

But regardless, op doesn't realize the strength of Templar isn't the spamable skill, it's that at low health the Templar does more healing plus has access to major mending. He would still have to learn to use a healing debuff+drain our stamina before going in for the kill.

They should just nerf reactive/malubeth and re visit the overall dmg/healing numbers for all classes.

I doubt the meta would shift to a bunch of soul shine builds just for BOL.

I understand the class very well apparently you didn't watch the videos to see I'm not an average healer...especially in PvP.

I do agree adjusting adjust certain sets like reactive and malubeth would help along with overall dmg numbers/healing would help.

leepalmer95

Damn this is such a bad idea.

Because cast time heals are what people need in pvp to survive the burst.

...

Is this thread real?

Paraflex

xaraan wrote: »

BoL is no longer best mag heal in the game. And also, this wouldn't make them equal to DE unless they also restored stam/magicka in addition to health.

BOL is the best single target burst heal in the game. Your crazy to thing anything else beats a smart heal at 28meters.....PvP this heal is used by every mag Templar.

scorpiodog

Paraflex wrote: »

Best mag heal in the game is BOL and it's a smart heal.

Best stam heal in the game is Vigor and it's a heal over time.

I think by adding a cast time of 1.5 seconds would help balance PvP in the game. I think people will have to adjust to the new pace of the game. Having the best heals in the game interruptible will make people use other skills like healing springs which is strong but you have to target an area and actually think about the placement.

Pros -
Healing will be skillful
You will have to think about your timing
No more spamming BOL for Templars of any type
Good bye block casting BOL bots.
Less heals per second which changes the meta.
1v1s will go faster
Zergs will die faster

Cons-
Shields could be used more frequently
You get bashed but that's the risk you take.
Tons of stam classes will be upset about this.
Could effect PVE but iv done enough trials healing springs and healing orbs do the job.


This game is way to easy to heal. Iv played a long list of PvP games and never seen a healing Templar be so effective and tanky at the same time. I usually heal in PvP groups and I am very effective at it.

After all the changes BOL has had over the years I still think it's to strong. This is coming from a healer Templar. Yes I play damage and have a flawless Mag NB so I'm not clueless on how damage works in the game.

You can see with Stam sorcs dark deal in the game is still very effective. Changes like this could be healthy for the game. Although I think it's bugged right now as you get resources even when it's bashed.

Iv added some videos of myself in action healing groups it's just to easy to heal on Templars.

Nerf my favorite class and style for the greater good of PvP!

https://youtu.be/SyeGXPZ_uxk

https://youtu.be/jpyxR0ixQaI

The problem with Vigor in PvP is that most times if you use it you've basically lost - it's only a matter of time. The only time I really use Vigor successfully in PvP was to escape. If your opponent uses Vigor that's a signal for you to increase the pressure - you've basically won and if you still have resources it's only a matter of time.

Imagine this: your stamina pool is low, your health bar is dangerously low and you already used a potion. Decision: die from your opponent's next attack or cast vigor which depletes your stamina even lower, severely reducing your ability to attack, block or dodge.

I your videos you show vigor being used to heal in groups. Are you saying get rid of all healing options? Otherwise the thing to do in groups would be to only play classes that can have healing options, so about half the classes just wouldn't be viable without some kind of healing.

Minno

Paraflex wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

No, just no. Defiantly not on BoL. Once a templar starts spamming BoL, often times thats the only skill you'll use until you are either out of resources or help arrives. Especially in this proc heavy insta kill meta. Vigor on the other hand, you can cast it and just keep on fighting, fire and forget basically.

Putting a cast time on BoL would effectively make that skill worthless, might as well use ritual at that point. Putting a cast time on Vigor? That might work? I don't know.

Though, oddly enough BoL could get buffed by Soulshine.

But regardless, op doesn't realize the strength of Templar isn't the spamable skill, it's that at low health the Templar does more healing plus has access to major mending. He would still have to learn to use a healing debuff+drain our stamina before going in for the kill.

They should just nerf reactive/malubeth and re visit the overall dmg/healing numbers for all classes.

I doubt the meta would shift to a bunch of soul shine builds just for BOL.

I understand the class very well apparently you didn't watch the videos to see I'm not an average healer...especially in PvP.

I do agree adjusting adjust certain sets like reactive and malubeth would help along with overall dmg numbers/healing would help.

Soulshine buffs RD, staff heavy attacks (yes including fire), sweeps, soul assault, and dark flare. Most Templars wouldn't start running Soulshine just for BoL, but you can see the tool kit above favors a ranged caster build. It would be interesting, but Templars don't have the dmg buffs that NB/Sorcs have so to nerf their only viable pvp self heal, is weird given if you look at the other passives.

If BoL gets a change like you suggest, their dmg/survivability/other healing sources would most likely be buffed to compensate. Though one can argue the Templar already has this cast time self heal (ritual of rebirth). You would be the first to switch to stamina just to use dodge roll, if we had no instant cast heal. Most Templars feel this way, even with mist form.

I didn't bother watching the videos.

Paraflex

The change would tilt soulshine builds in favor as a lot of skills mag Templars have are channeled but it may not be enough to have good dps viable builds.

There mitigation and survivabiliity is quite strong in Mag and Stam builds this wouldn't ruin the class....balance

leepalmer95

Paraflex wrote: »

The change would tilt soulshine builds in favor as a lot of skills mag Templars have are channeled but it may not be enough to have good dps viable builds.

There mitigation and survivabiliity is quite strong in Mag and Stam builds this wouldn't ruin the class....balance

It kind of would though...

Strider_Roshin

Only if you put a cast time on every damage shield in the game.

Alucardo

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Only if you put a cast time on every damage shield in the game.

Also a cast time before blocking

a1i3nz

Paraflex wrote: »

The change would tilt soulshine builds in favor as a lot of skills mag Templars have are channeled but it may not be enough to have good dps viable builds.

There mitigation and survivabiliity is quite strong in Mag and Stam builds this wouldn't ruin the class....balance

Lol wut

What don't you get about this being a horrible idea? Do you even regard PVE?

Again you're probably trolling.......right?

Lokey0024

Minno wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

No, just no. Defiantly not on BoL. Once a templar starts spamming BoL, often times thats the only skill you'll use until you are either out of resources or help arrives. Especially in this proc heavy insta kill meta. Vigor on the other hand, you can cast it and just keep on fighting, fire and forget basically.

Putting a cast time on BoL would effectively make that skill worthless, might as well use ritual at that point. Putting a cast time on Vigor? That might work? I don't know.

Though, oddly enough BoL could get buffed by Soulshine.

But regardless, op doesn't realize the strength of Templar isn't the spamable skill, it's that at low health the Templar does more healing plus has access to major mending. He would still have to learn to use a healing debuff+drain our stamina before going in for the kill.

They should just nerf reactive/malubeth and re visit the overall dmg/healing numbers for all classes.

Reactive armor/malbeth combo broke this game 2 patches ago. Fix the cause of the plague.

Joy_Division

Paraflex wrote: »

The change would tilt soulshine builds in favor as a lot of skills mag Templars have are channeled but it may not be enough to have good dps viable builds.

There mitigation and survivabiliity is quite strong in Mag and Stam builds this wouldn't ruin the class....balance

It wouldn't ruin the class, it would just would mean that templars, like every other magicka class, would be left scrambling on how to survive in this procfest meta of instant death ... aside from completely gutting end-game PVE trials, but it's obvious you haven't thought about stuff like that.

If BoL which changed in such the way you proposed, I would never use it. Ever. At all. It would be the 4th skill (out of 15, holy ***) that I would not even bother wasting a skill point on.

And I would run the a build that would become way more popular than it already is, Blazing Shield health cancerplar using the Vampire drain skill as my heal (indeed, it works better even the BOL because 1) it always heals you, 2) it's based off your missing health: with 60K health, the sucker ticks for like 7K). You would turn cyrodiil into even more of a stam-fest because now no magicka classes would be able to heal themselves reliably without using a resto-staff (which already is a primary reason so many mageplars in Cyrodiil).

zuto40

AzuraKin wrote: »

there is a point to original post. have you ever tried to fight a templar 1v1? almost dead bol full health back to doing damage to you. in essence, they can easily keep themselves full life with bol with no penalty while you suffer. bol followed by spear knockback followed by 1-2 solar flares = full health to next to nothing.

block the spear, dodge the flares, keep dps on them and magplars are generally done

deepseamk20b14_ESO

This would be a great change for stamina night blades, as they have so many other heals to depend on already!......

DocFrost72

AzuraKin wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ok let me be clear on this

if i hit "vigor one time, it just increases my hp regen and gives me just a small amount of health back,


but if i SPAM it and hit it over and over and over repeatedly it will in a few moments heal me to about 80% fuill health.

please stop saying different.

and i say again,
this is a horrible request.
my nightblade most of the time never even gets enough healing, hes usualy dead within a few moments of toe to toe fights. [in pvp]
it is only "sometimes" that by spaming vigor that im able to survive.
and you want to put it on a timer that i can only use it once in a while ?
uh, no, i do not want this!

and again you missing the whole point, every time you cast it, it uses up your resources, but you gain no additional hps from the heal because you are just refreshing it. should not hit vigor more then 1 time every 5s to optimize resource management.

Unless you can time it well enough (seen it, and done ot out of combat) a heartbeat after it ticks you can reactivate, so you get two ticks in the rough time span of one.

Still a waste of resources though.

leepalmer95

DocFrost72 wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ok let me be clear on this

if i hit "vigor one time, it just increases my hp regen and gives me just a small amount of health back,


but if i SPAM it and hit it over and over and over repeatedly it will in a few moments heal me to about 80% fuill health.

please stop saying different.

and i say again,
this is a horrible request.
my nightblade most of the time never even gets enough healing, hes usualy dead within a few moments of toe to toe fights. [in pvp]
it is only "sometimes" that by spaming vigor that im able to survive.
and you want to put it on a timer that i can only use it once in a while ?
uh, no, i do not want this!

and again you missing the whole point, every time you cast it, it uses up your resources, but you gain no additional hps from the heal because you are just refreshing it. should not hit vigor more then 1 time every 5s to optimize resource management.

Unless you can time it well enough (seen it, and done ot out of combat) a heartbeat after it ticks you can reactivate, so you get two ticks in the rough time span of one.

Still a waste of resources though.

You'd never need to cast it twice like because if your not full or full ish hp by 5s your usually dead.

Besides it's better to cast rally after the initial vigor.

DocFrost72

leepalmer95 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ok let me be clear on this

if i hit "vigor one time, it just increases my hp regen and gives me just a small amount of health back,


but if i SPAM it and hit it over and over and over repeatedly it will in a few moments heal me to about 80% fuill health.

please stop saying different.

and i say again,
this is a horrible request.
my nightblade most of the time never even gets enough healing, hes usualy dead within a few moments of toe to toe fights. [in pvp]
it is only "sometimes" that by spaming vigor that im able to survive.
and you want to put it on a timer that i can only use it once in a while ?
uh, no, i do not want this!

and again you missing the whole point, every time you cast it, it uses up your resources, but you gain no additional hps from the heal because you are just refreshing it. should not hit vigor more then 1 time every 5s to optimize resource management.

Unless you can time it well enough (seen it, and done ot out of combat) a heartbeat after it ticks you can reactivate, so you get two ticks in the rough time span of one.

Still a waste of resources though.

You'd never need to cast it twice like because if your not full or full ish hp by 5s your usually dead.

Besides it's better to cast rally after the initial vigor.

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, but I am pointing out that there is a reason to activate vigor more than once per 5 seconds. Rally, pots, and roll dodging is better. But you can get vigo ticks to double if you time them well.

AzuraKin

Oompuh wrote: »

PvP is not the only thing in this game. Putting a cast time on BoL and Vigor would put a large strain on healers and tanks respectively in end-game trials.

Not just no... hell no.

actually, it wouldnt, heal springs, combat prayer are the main heals in trials.