Something needs to be done about endless dodging of attacks.

MalakithAlamahdi

Do what i do. Stun > spam jabs until they get up > Soul assault > Jezus beam.

Let the tears flow!

leepalmer95

Lava_Croft wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

Make a thread about it!

As you seem to complain a lot about pretty much everything can you be nice and make a nice thread with all your complaints in?

Cathexis

Reverb wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

The most annoying issue is when you have your opponent knocked down but you cant kill him because all your attack miss.

That always baffles me. Passive dodging should be completely negated when your target is stunned or disoriented.

Because CC isnt already totally out of control?

kadar

"Look, here's a log where I was attacking someone and he dodged a lot of attacks." What was said player doing? "Well, he was spamming dodge roll and using shuffle." And he dodged a lot of attacks you say?...Hmm.

I'm going to make a "buff dodging" thread. I'll link a neat combat log where I was hit by every single attack while running shuffle.

Armitas

The_Outsider wrote: »

"Look, here's a log where I was attacking someone and he dodged a lot of attacks." What was said player doing? "Well, he was spamming dodge roll and using shuffle." And he dodged a lot of attacks you say?...Hmm.

I'm going to make a "buff dodging" thread. I'll link a neat combat log where I was hit by every single attack while running shuffle.

I don't know what you think it will change but it would be interesting to see if not humorous to watch.

Kryptonite_Kent

Shuffle is fine, its just a passive dodge chance... dodge roll is actually the bigger issue, and its not because its spammable, its because it continues to be a 100% dodge chance for a while AFTER you complete the dodge roll, this would be the equivalent of blocking for a split second and then you get 100% block while you're attacking. Bad design, but theres plenty of bad design in this game anyway, this is just another in a long list.

Ashamray

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

I'd see how your mplar deals with mobile stamdd who is able to avoid jabs and who can do great pressure at the same time.
Or good mDK who ruins you dps using Talons + Harness\Ward correctly. Or sorc wih pet with unreflectable scamp's stun, kiting around mines and accurate timing. Easymode, you say?

leepalmer95

Ashamray wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

I'd see how your mplar deals with mobile stamdd who is able to avoid jabs and who can do great pressure at the same time.
Or good mDK who ruins you dps using Talons + Harness\Ward correctly. Or sorc wih pet with unreflectable scamp's stun, kiting around mines and accurate timing. Easymode, you say?

Lol mag dk is easy for a templar, sure they root you but your melee too and they spend 6s seconds putting dots on you and you use purify one and negate those last 6s.

FENGRUSH

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Shuffle is fine, its just a passive dodge chance... dodge roll is actually the bigger issue, and its not because its spammable, its because it continues to be a 100% dodge chance for a while AFTER you complete the dodge roll, this would be the equivalent of blocking for a split second and then you get 100% block while you're attacking. Bad design, but theres plenty of bad design in this game anyway, this is just another in a long list.

Theres actually a window where you can hit someone coming out of dodge roll before they can dodge roll again. A lot of experienced players time their attacks with this (CC when their CC isnt on CD).

Good luck guys.

Ashamray

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

I'd see how your mplar deals with mobile stamdd who is able to avoid jabs and who can do great pressure at the same time.
Or good mDK who ruins you dps using Talons + Harness\Ward correctly. Or sorc wih pet with unreflectable scamp's stun, kiting around mines and accurate timing. Easymode, you say?

Lol mag dk is easy for a templar, sure they root you but your melee too and they spend 6s seconds putting dots on you and you use purify one and negate those last 6s.

Another console player? mDK isn't "easy" opponent, it's a decent spec.

AzuraKin

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

.

Sandman929 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Classic thread. Someone dodged too much attacks and someone got pissed because of it. But nobody is creating threads how shuffle is useless when you get hit 10 times in a row.

Shuffle may be too strong defensive skill for some characters (namely those with already strong defensive skills and/or armor), but guess what, you dont get to cherry pick the worst scenarios (5 dodges in a row on shielded/heavy armor dude) as a reason to completely butcher the only defense for medium armor stam builds. Like you did with cloak.

People comparing shuffle to shield should seriously try playing their light armor sorcs with only shuffle (eat a stam food for all i care) without any shield. Have fun dying every hit that wont get dodged.

Many of us play stam characters and know full well that dodge chance is too good at mitigating damage. I don't mind my builds getting balanced out, so I'm happy to admit when something I use is too good.

Stam is such a broad term. If you play heavy armor you live like crazy, if you are ganker, you arent even visible most of the time. Dodge chance is good at mitigating damage when you are lucky. I am all for "stabilizing" the skill, but dont kid yourself its too good, if you dodge that 1 3k dmg attack in series of 5 other (the average what you dodge with it) its worse than bone shield.
And that's coming from me, someone who is punished by evasion more than saved. My "kill count" would grow substantially if people couldn't passively evade my bow attacks.

you do realize dude people use major evasion (20% chance to dodge) to dodge every attack, its not just oh i dodged your attack, its i dodge your attack and 23 other player's attacks 20 times in a row.

Joy_Division

Vaoh wrote: »

...I I have not witnessed a single Magicka Sorc who could survive more than 10sec against groups with Stamina builds like this before...All of the great players who gained Magicka Sorcs in the past are getting slaughtered and have almost all switched to using Stamina Sorcerers geared up in Heavy Armor and Proc Sets.

Not that I'm one to support the stupidity of heavy armor proc meta, but ... really? Not one? Next time you see Force Siphon, just follow him and watch. Or take a look at Kodi's video.

Shield stacking has not gone away and in fact is stronger because Harness now blocks everything. Yes it is annoying having to recast them every 6 seconds if nobody hits you (gee, the inconvenience of not being attacked), but I can't say I'm sympathetic that sorcerers have to actually react in combat like the other three classes. I'm not even that great of a sorcerer player and the duration nerf is not nearly as big of a deal as I thought it would have been.

kadar

Armitas wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

"Look, here's a log where I was attacking someone and he dodged a lot of attacks." What was said player doing? "Well, he was spamming dodge roll and using shuffle." And he dodged a lot of attacks you say?...Hmm.

I'm going to make a "buff dodging" thread. I'll link a neat combat log where I was hit by every single attack while running shuffle.

I don't know what you think it will change but it would be interesting to see if not humorous to watch.

@Armitas , precisely. It will accomplish nothing.

olsborg

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Shuffle is fine, its just a passive dodge chance... dodge roll is actually the bigger issue, and its not because its spammable, its because it continues to be a 100% dodge chance for a while AFTER you complete the dodge roll, this would be the equivalent of blocking for a split second and then you get 100% block while you're attacking. Bad design, but theres plenty of bad design in this game anyway, this is just another in a long list.

Theres actually a window where you can hit someone coming out of dodge roll before they can dodge roll again. A lot of experienced players time their attacks with this (CC when their CC isnt on CD).

Good luck guys.

The window is exactly 0.3 secnds that you can hit them between dodges, its doable. Unless they have that crusader set.

Kutsuu

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Shuffle is fine, its just a passive dodge chance... dodge roll is actually the bigger issue, and its not because its spammable, its because it continues to be a 100% dodge chance for a while AFTER you complete the dodge roll, this would be the equivalent of blocking for a split second and then you get 100% block while you're attacking. Bad design, but theres plenty of bad design in this game anyway, this is just another in a long list.

Theres actually a window where you can hit someone coming out of dodge roll before they can dodge roll again. A lot of experienced players time their attacks with this (CC when their CC isnt on CD).

Good luck guys.

They call this "Chasing" in other more competitive games that have similar dodge windows. Little tricks that most people never bother to learn.

Lord-Otto

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Shuffle is fine, its just a passive dodge chance... dodge roll is actually the bigger issue, and its not because its spammable, its because it continues to be a 100% dodge chance for a while AFTER you complete the dodge roll, this would be the equivalent of blocking for a split second and then you get 100% block while you're attacking. Bad design, but theres plenty of bad design in this game anyway, this is just another in a long list.

Theres actually a window where you can hit someone coming out of dodge roll before they can dodge roll again. A lot of experienced players time their attacks with this (CC when their CC isnt on CD).

Good luck guys.

Aware of it. It's too small to get my mag sorc's burst in for the kill. And then vigor ticks.
I-frames for dodge are too big.

SilentBoomstick

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Some magical attacks cant be dodged. You just got to play smart

I get really annoyed with people in duels because all they do is dodge 80% of all of my attacks while this "op" ability never seems to make me dodge the way that these other people do. I can't even lay a single on these people yet here they are hitting me with all of their attacks. That is not a fair fight. That is so broken and I think anything that has a proc chance should be banned from duels including monster sets. You don't need these broken sets and skills to be op because it's not all about gear and abilities in duels. When I see a stamplar with a flawless conqueror using malubeth that is how I know this game is officially doomed. What else is broken you might ask? Heals are broken. Heavy armor is broken. Damage isn't really even reduced by 50% chance and the fact that people wearing heavy armor can still dish out a lot of damage is broken.

SilentBoomstick

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

No matter how many times they "nerf" a magplar they will still be the most op class in the game. I only have to hit honor the dead one time to get all of my health back on my build in a pvp zone.

Ashamray wrote: »

I'd see how your mplar deals with mobile stamdd who is able to avoid jabs and who can do great pressure at the same time.
Or good mDK who ruins you dps using Talons + Harness\Ward correctly. Or sorc wih pet with unreflectable scamp's stun, kiting around mines and accurate timing. Easymode, you say?

Magplar has a lot of buffs so yes it is easy mode. Magicka dk has terrible sustain and really bad dps, stamdk is undeniably strong but can't really do any damage plus their debuffs can be cleansed, and a sorcerer is the absolute hardest class you can possibly play in this game. Those sorcerers you see that look op are already good with them. Also nobody even uses those pets for their builds so I have no idea why you are bringing that up.

Xvorg

Ashamray wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

I'd see how your mplar deals with mobile stamdd who is able to avoid jabs and who can do great pressure at the same time.
Or good mDK who ruins you dps using Talons + Harness\Ward correctly. Or sorc wih pet with unreflectable scamp's stun, kiting around mines and accurate timing. Easymode, you say?

Lol mag dk is easy for a templar, sure they root you but your melee too and they spend 6s seconds putting dots on you and you use purify one and negate those last 6s.

Another console player? mDK isn't "easy" opponent, it's a decent spec.

let me think... shield assault, burning embers, inhale, whippy whip, talons, whippy whip... Unless the templar is running inmo pots, he's gonna be CCed to death...

Oh, I forgot standard

Armitas

I think it would be better if it had a chance to lower damage rather than avoid it. That way you could actually gap close, CC, and heal debuff rather than breaking your rotation of a necessary maneuver until you roll the dice and it lands.

ced30

Xvorg wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

I'd see how your mplar deals with mobile stamdd who is able to avoid jabs and who can do great pressure at the same time.
Or good mDK who ruins you dps using Talons + Harness\Ward correctly. Or sorc wih pet with unreflectable scamp's stun, kiting around mines and accurate timing. Easymode, you say?

Lol mag dk is easy for a templar, sure they root you but your melee too and they spend 6s seconds putting dots on you and you use purify one and negate those last 6s.

Another console player? mDK isn't "easy" opponent, it's a decent spec.

let me think... shield assault, burning embers, inhale, whippy whip, talons, whippy whip... Unless the templar is running inmo pots, he's gonna be CCed to death...

Oh, I forgot standard

let me think too, purge purge purge/ mistform, kthnxbye.

ScooberSteve

I think maybe you dont understand the mechanics of the game.

KisoValley

Whole point of dodge rolling is to dodge attacks btw Kris.

I know you like to complain about everything that kills you (like when I killed you with endless fury spam when you were trying to run a scroll a few weeks ago in the middle of 100 EP) but at least put it all into 1 thread.

Lashiing

but do you know how good it feels to 100% dodge a zerg for 5 mins straight?

Armitas

I wonder if dodge can proc in a current dodge I-frame. That could be the problem. The multitude of attacks in a current I-frame that are being dodged could also be triggering the next I-frame. So basically multiple dice rolls are being made each second and as long as one of them lands on a 5, the dodge continues. There should only be one dice rolled per window if they are going to use I-frames.

bowmanz607

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It gets very old to waste your resource on attacks that constantly miss. I understand all the white knights will jump in and say that passive dodge and dodge rolling is just fine, but anyone who plays a non-Stamina character will know how life is in Cyrodiil.

Please make dodge less powerful. Escape skills got nerfed, shields got nerfed, but dodging is more powerful than ever. You'd think it's something for the more nimble builds out there using Medium Armor, but it's not any less powerful on the dpshealtanks that are a large part of the current meta.

Fine but give the stam shield back if no dodge chance. People seem to forget how squishy builds are without it. Try running it. That said, I also think you should only be able to use it in 5pc medium armor only. Or a dodge chance debufff maybe???

Dodgeroll is fine. It stacks and there are attacks that go through dodge. Use those skills on people who dodge a lot. There is counter play to that.

leepalmer95

Shuffle or evasion dodging just need to dodge each attack individually and not every for .5s

Plus it needs a cooldown or something or even just on 5x medium builds only.

When you see mag dk's and templar use it, it's op.

Sureshawt

Hexys wrote: »

Bakven wrote: »

Weren't you just complaining about the nb escape skill shadowy image and asking for it's nerf?

Everytime he dies to a good player, he creates a topic asking for a nerf. ^^

Definitely a pattern with this player as with most players calling for nerfs. Anytime something in the game is effective against their playstyle it must be nerfed.

Active dodge already got nerfed. The passive dodge is a gamble as sometimes it procs wildly and other times it does nothing but always uses up a valuable slot.

Anti_Virus

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Classic thread. Someone dodged too much attacks and someone got pissed because of it. But nobody is creating threads how shuffle is useless when you get hit 10 times in a row.

Shuffle may be too strong defensive skill for some characters (namely those with already strong defensive skills and/or armor), but guess what, you dont get to cherry pick the worst scenarios (5 dodges in a row on shielded/heavy armor dude) as a reason to completely butcher the only defense for medium armor stam builds. Like you did with cloak.

People comparing shuffle to shield should seriously try playing their light armor sorcs with only shuffle (eat a stam food for all i care) without any shield. Have fun dying every hit that wont get dodged.

This.

Derra

Armitas wrote: »

Dodging is broken. There is no defending it.

Dodging and LOS is also essential to the viability of Vigor and the feel of stamina. I suggest people start coming up with a valid fix for it instead of ad hominems and red herrings to obfuscate a broken system. Otherwise ZOS will over fix it and it will suck for everyone.

To be honest - i think passive 100% dmg mitigation dodge should not exist as a 20% chance buff (no issues in dodgerolling) - i run it on a magsorc over a third shield because it´s the better option.

The buff should be reworked to a passive parry chance reducing incoming dmg by 50% with a 25% chance.

Addition: While blocking you obviously can´t parry stuff.