Something needs to be done about endless dodging of attacks.

Lava_Croft

It gets very old to waste your resource on attacks that constantly miss. I understand all the white knights will jump in and say that passive dodge and dodge rolling is just fine, but anyone who plays a non-Stamina character will know how life is in Cyrodiil.

Please make dodge less powerful. Escape skills got nerfed, shields got nerfed, but dodging is more powerful than ever. You'd think it's something for the more nimble builds out there using Medium Armor, but it's not any less powerful on the dpshealtanks that are a large part of the current meta.

Bakven

Weren't you just complaining about the nb escape skill shadowy image and asking for it's nerf?

Skinzz

The most annoying issue is when you have your opponent knocked down but you cant kill him because all your attack miss.

Reverb

xskinzcity wrote: »

The most annoying issue is when you have your opponent knocked down but you cant kill him because all your attack miss.

That always baffles me. Passive dodging should be completely negated when your target is stunned or disoriented.

FriedEggSandwich

Agree. I used to defend it, but you're right; every other defense mechanism has been nerfed. It needs some conditions at the very least, or an accuracy passive to counter it, or something.

AzuraKin

i would say dodge on its own is fine. people who dodge 20 skills in a row x 20 people with just skills like evasion are not playing the game fair. 20% chance to dodge means dodge 1 of every 5 skills not 1% chance to not dodge a skill.

ScooberSteve

Some magical attacks cant be dodged. You just got to play smart

Hexys

Bakven wrote: »

Weren't you just complaining about the nb escape skill shadowy image and asking for it's nerf?

Everytime he dies to a good player, he creates a topic asking for a nerf. ^^

DannyLV702

As someone who loves major evasion on my heavy armor DK, that *** needs to go lol

Biro123

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Some magical attacks cant be dodged. You just got to play smart

Not gonna beat anyone with just velocitous curse and lighting heavy attacks.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Dodge shouldn't reduce all damage. It should reduce it by 50% (or 75).
either that or dodge should consume ultimate charge not stamina.

LeifErickson

Umm dodge roll did get nerfed. Just like everything else in this game because of threads like this.

Lava_Croft

Bakven wrote: »

Weren't you just complaining about the nb escape skill shadowy image and asking for it's nerf?

Aren't you in the wrong thread if it's about Shadow Image?

Reverb

LeifErickson wrote: »

Umm dodge roll did get nerfed. Just like everything else in this game because of threads like this.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody is complaining about dodge roll. There are still a few permaroll builds like before the nerf, but they aren't the problem. The issue is the Major Evasion passive that gives a dodge chance without the player having to do anything. Both the Shuffle skill and the sets that give this passive say it's a small chance, but anyone who runs it (including myself) will tell you that it procs more often than not.

Lava_Croft

Reverb wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Umm dodge roll did get nerfed. Just like everything else in this game because of threads like this.

Unless I'm mistaken, nobody is complaining about dodge roll. There are still a few permaroll builds like before the nerf, but they aren't the problem. The issue is the Major Evasion passive that gives a dodge chance without the player having to do anything. Both the Shuffle skill and the sets that give this passive say it's a small chance, but anyone who runs it (including myself) will tell you that it procs more often than not.

Dodge roll is kind of problem in that one dodge roll is enough to dodge every single target attack for the duration of the dodge. That's a bit too powerful.

Alucardo

When even magicka builds are running Shuffle you know something is up. Dodging should only come from dodge rolling, which has a significant cost increase each time you do it, so it's not so bad. Pop shuffle after CC breaking with the Unchained passive and it's basically free.
I main stamina, and I really hate this skill, like so much. Basically I look at people with shuffle the same way I do tanks - I don't even bother attacking them because I have no idea how many of my skills will actually hit them.

Durham

No one has endless dodge show me a video please... you have to time your dodges...

ThePonzzz

So use poisons that increase resource cost or drain them. Wear them down. Change attacks to deal with evasion/dodging. Use skills to slow them down (caltrops) and force them to spend resources on removing it.

By no means can I counter everything, but there are ways counter this.

Vaoh

I remember when Annulment and damage shields in general lasted 8-20 seconds. They were considered too powerful. The shield duration nerf to 6 seconds all but gutted their effectiveness, since having to recast constantly when not taking damage is plain bad design. What separates damage shields from other sources of survivability, is that you are either shielding or DPSing. No in between way to go about this. If shields drop for even a second, you're usually dead.

The same patch saw the rise of Stamina builds (not obvious at first) and now has our "OP" damage shields breaking in 1-1.5 Surprise Attacks if you don't have Necropotence (Mag NB only, since Pet Sorcs are terrible) to reach 48K+ Max Magicka. I've seen my shieldstacked Empowered Ward+Dampen Magic+Medium Healing Ward all break from the burst of one tank with Viper's Sting+Tremorscale+Black Rose. This is why solo play is dead unless you're using the same meta Stamina Proc Set garbage that has ruined PvP in the first place since Dark Brotherhood and especially One Tamriel.

I used to love running solo on my Magicka Sorc. I 1vX groups of players and it was because I was skillful enough to do it. But now? When a single Tremeorscale proc slows my movement speed by 70% and passively eliminates 1 shield, as a Viper Proc eliminates another shield? It's a joke. I have not witnessed a single Magicka Sorc who could survive more than 10sec against groups with Stamina builds like this before. All of the great players who gained Magicka Sorcs in the past are getting slaughtered and have almost all switched to using Stamina Sorcerers geared up in Heavy Armor and Proc Sets.

Give Evasion the 6sec treatment, or better yet, rework/remove the stupid buff that allows you to passively negate the damage, CCs, and DoTs of 20% of melee attacks and 50%+ of projectiles. That's a minor start to helping out balance if ZOS cannot get anything else right. If not, then move it to the Heavy Armor skill line. No one uses Medium Armor anymore in PvP unless they want to be "unique" now.

olsborg

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It gets very old to waste your resource on attacks that constantly miss. I understand all the white knights will jump in and say that passive dodge and dodge rolling is just fine, but anyone who plays a non-Stamina character will know how life is in Cyrodiil.

Please make dodge less powerful. Escape skills got nerfed, shields got nerfed, but dodging is more powerful than ever. You'd think it's something for the more nimble builds out there using Medium Armor, but it's not any less powerful on the dpshealtanks that are a large part of the current meta.

Dodge was nerfed already, did you miss it?

olsborg

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

Lava_Croft

olsborg wrote: »

What rly needs nerfed is magplars heals, there is no nerf to breath of life spamming. IMO anyone who struggles to pvp make themself a magplar and its easymode.

Make a thread about it!

Minno

Evasion should be reworked to provide a small chance to absorb a direct attack and add weapon/spell dmg for a certain duration. (To mimic classic stealth characters user of speed to counter attack)

This should let it be mostly dmg oriented and still let medium armor keep their dodge roll passives so those builds can still keep an action defense.

Templars healing only changes after review of all dmg/healing sources in the general balance patching.

SodanTok

Classic thread. Someone dodged too much attacks and someone got pissed because of it. But nobody is creating threads how shuffle is useless when you get hit 10 times in a row.

Shuffle may be too strong defensive skill for some characters (namely those with already strong defensive skills and/or armor), but guess what, you dont get to cherry pick the worst scenarios (5 dodges in a row on shielded/heavy armor dude) as a reason to completely butcher the only defense for medium armor stam builds. Like you did with cloak.

People comparing shuffle to shield should seriously try playing their light armor sorcs with only shuffle (eat a stam food for all i care) without any shield. Have fun dying every hit that wont get dodged.

Armitas

Dodging is broken. There is no defending it.

Dodging and LOS is also essential to the viability of Vigor and the feel of stamina. I suggest people start coming up with a valid fix for it instead of ad hominems and red herrings to obfuscate a broken system. Otherwise ZOS will over fix it and it will suck for everyone.

Sandman929

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Classic thread. Someone dodged too much attacks and someone got pissed because of it. But nobody is creating threads how shuffle is useless when you get hit 10 times in a row.

Shuffle may be too strong defensive skill for some characters (namely those with already strong defensive skills and/or armor), but guess what, you dont get to cherry pick the worst scenarios (5 dodges in a row on shielded/heavy armor dude) as a reason to completely butcher the only defense for medium armor stam builds. Like you did with cloak.

People comparing shuffle to shield should seriously try playing their light armor sorcs with only shuffle (eat a stam food for all i care) without any shield. Have fun dying every hit that wont get dodged.

Many of us play stam characters and know full well that dodge chance is too good at mitigating damage. I don't mind my builds getting balanced out, so I'm happy to admit when something I use is too good.

Calboy

The amount of dodge rollers who die to my curse and heavy lightning is just delicious

SodanTok

.

Sandman929 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Classic thread. Someone dodged too much attacks and someone got pissed because of it. But nobody is creating threads how shuffle is useless when you get hit 10 times in a row.

Shuffle may be too strong defensive skill for some characters (namely those with already strong defensive skills and/or armor), but guess what, you dont get to cherry pick the worst scenarios (5 dodges in a row on shielded/heavy armor dude) as a reason to completely butcher the only defense for medium armor stam builds. Like you did with cloak.

People comparing shuffle to shield should seriously try playing their light armor sorcs with only shuffle (eat a stam food for all i care) without any shield. Have fun dying every hit that wont get dodged.

Many of us play stam characters and know full well that dodge chance is too good at mitigating damage. I don't mind my builds getting balanced out, so I'm happy to admit when something I use is too good.

Stam is such a broad term. If you play heavy armor you live like crazy, if you are ganker, you arent even visible most of the time. Dodge chance is good at mitigating damage when you are lucky. I am all for "stabilizing" the skill, but dont kid yourself its too good, if you dodge that 1 3k dmg attack in series of 5 other (the average what you dodge with it) its worse than bone shield.
And that's coming from me, someone who is punished by evasion more than saved. My "kill count" would grow substantially if people couldn't passively evade my bow attacks.

Wreuntzylla

Have you run into our Gossamer group yet? If not, you don't know exactly how bad it is right now...

Cogo

Hexys wrote: »

Bakven wrote: »

Weren't you just complaining about the nb escape skill shadowy image and asking for it's nerf?

Everytime he dies to a good player, he creates a topic asking for a nerf. ^^

And everytime I kick your butt, you call me a zerg

Lord-Otto

And that is why we need Eye of the Storm.