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[IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Easy Fix for Blazing Shield
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Kidly✭✭Stratforge wrote: »If you're even remotely curious about playing a blazing shield Templar, I say go for it. Theorycrafting them is fun, and playing them even more so.
As for Blazing Shield needing fixes, it's in a niche place. It dosent need a fix and the easiest way to defeat a Templar is to ignore it. The damage they do when they aren't being attacked is negligible. Their enemies strength is their own.
This is every bs tank's argument and it's just nonsense.
When would any Templar use sun shield and it's morphs otherwise on a non hp, non tank build?0 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭At what point did I ever say I was getting killed by it? I haven't been killed a single time by a BS Templar, that's the problem. It's largely talentless PVP. It's two buttons and get healed by the 30 other templars in your group. There's nothing strategic there. Some streamers have put out BS templars with around 50k health that do exceptionally well at both offense and defense and use the skill, as I think it was intended. The 80k health guy with BS is largely worthless without his Zerg. Everyone understands that. But having someone walk around literally invincible is kind of ridiculous. By tweaking Shield breaker, you are giving an opponent a shot, but he's also going to have to get in close and attack, exposing himself to damage. Risk and reward. Geeze, some may even call that balance.
Xbox NA PVP is dominated by groups with 20 templars, 5 or so running BS builds and the rest acting as heal bots. These groups just front door keeps because there's nothing anyone can do to stop them. Without 10+ people on defense and some negates, there's nothing a small group can do to stop these guys. It's not fun and competitive PVP. More and more templars are rolling these builds, and eventually it will get nerfed. Compromise now and think of creative adjustments or have Zos take it upon themselves to balance. Who do you trust more?
My idea isn't perfect, but it's a thought. It largely leaves the build viable, and if you know you're going to be fighting BS builds all night you can stick a player or two with Shield breaker on to try and balance the field. These players would be at a disadvantage in other fights and have to expose themselves to danger if they want to try and take out those tanks. Groups shouldn't be able to capture an outpost with 20 people beating on 2 guys standing on the flag getting healed from outside the outpost door.Xbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome." - The Balance Lord Wrobel
- And now it sure does, better learn how to bash folks!
I get by with a little help from logic.0 -
ced30✭✭✭Just wear Fasalla, stay in their ***, keep vigor up, say goodbye to the bombplar.Edited by ced30 on 14 November 2016 05:41No-one escapes the chains!
Afro Nînja - magicka nb (DC)
Silvester Staline - magicka nb (DC)
It's a trâp - stam dk tank (DC)
Lord Vuiton - Argonian blazing shield templar (Dc)
[Video] Major Trap! eso Stam Dk tank pvp => https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/302728/video-major-trap-eso-stam-dk-tank-pvp-episodes0 -
Firerock2✭✭✭✭✭Lol if you want to fix blazing shield you need to buff the percentage but bring back softcaps. If you died to a blazing shield tank then you are just bad.3 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield.
Edit: For example, you can run 5 plague doctor 5 lich 2 slimecraw 2 torugs and sit at 3k spell damage fully buffed with over 3k regen during lich proc and still have 45k health
2nd edit: gonna tag a couple of templar running 45k or so health on blazing shield builds to back me up @akinos @JackDaniellEdited by Lexxypwns on 14 November 2016 06:131 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield
For 40k hp your giving up a lot of magicka, your not going to crit 2k per sweep on anything.
Im at like 41k magicka and 3k~ spell dmg now and your lucky to crit a heavy armor build for 1.3 -1.5k.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield
For 40k hp your giving up a lot of magicka, your not going to crit 2k per sweep on anything.
Im at like 41k magicka and 3k~ spell dmg now and your lucky to crit a heavy armor build for 1.3 -1.5k.
Bro, you've got a bad build then, those numbers are super duper low and there's no way around it. Running Tri-stat glyphs and max health/mag food you can easily hit 30k mag with a 40k health build. In the above stated build you can easily run thief stone because you have limitless magika sustain from lich and stam sustain from repentance. You make yourself too dangerous to ignore and can force a fight. If I see someone with 60k hp I will literally just ignore them because they have 0 damage.Edited by Lexxypwns on 14 November 2016 06:250 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Blazing shield need a "FIX". No nerf or buff but a work-around to be able to use it with non 70k health build. I dont like the current state of it. It maybe strong for one single build but it's completely useless for other 9464728 templar builds.
Remember the old shield anybody? Bread and butter skill for templar without being op.. I just want that back. Templar main theme building a house and to protect that house is halved without the blazing shield.
This guy wrote the exact same thing in my mind.
40-45k health would be better than 35k in my opinionBetter idea: remove battlespirit from health based skills and passivs and add hard cap max health 33-35k or so. No efekt in pve, because a tank in pve not staking that high into health.
ZOS wana hp builds be more usefull. Fine. So, I think it will be left as it is but as I said - make another morph viable, like:
rename Radiant Ward into Lunar Ward, give it that cool visual, made for 20 sec duration self-buff that either:
- when you loosing more than 50% hp in a X seconds, activate Lunar Ward for 5 sec that grant major protection buff.
- when you have less than 30% hp - activate Lunar's damage shield for 4 sec. 8 sec cooldown.
- when you loosing more than 30% hp in a 5 sec - activate Lunar Ward that making you immune to CC for 5 sec.
1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.Edited by timidobserver on 14 November 2016 08:12V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?
Rattlecage is hot garbage and totally not worth running.2 -
So let me get this straight.
We the Templars must run only what you say we must run?
Blazing shield is a great skill, it's the anti meta.
The irony is funny, because proc sets are currently ruining pvp and making very average players now seemingly good. They've kind of destroyed the technical skill of pvp'ing, and that's what's most disappointing. Yet people complain about the anti meta?! Kill the meta, and the anti meta wouldn't exist...
So when Templars make blazing shield tanks (me included) I'm not doing it because it's hilarious. I'm doing it because instead of moaning about being one shot due to a viper tremorscale proc, I'm gonna stand there and take it now, let's fight and see what happens. Might win, might lose. But if you want to run your trashy 59 proc's build you're gonna have to work for your kill. Deal with it ☺️6 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So let me get this straight.
We the Templars must run only what you say we must run?
Blazing shield is a great skill, it's the anti meta.
The irony is funny, because proc sets are currently ruining pvp and making very average players now seemingly good. They've kind of destroyed the technical skill of pvp'ing, and that's what's most disappointing. Yet people complain about the anti meta?! Kill the meta, and the anti meta wouldn't exist...
So when Templars make blazing shield tanks (me included) I'm not doing it because it's hilarious. I'm doing it because instead of moaning about being one shot due to a viper tremorscale proc, I'm gonna stand there and take it now, let's fight and see what happens. Might win, might lose. But if you want to run your trashy 59 proc's build you're gonna have to work for your kill. Deal with it ☺️
3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?
Rattlecage is hot garbage and totally not worth running.
Works fine for me, i enjoy the extra skill slot as well.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?
Rattlecage is hot garbage and totally not worth running.
Works fine for me, i enjoy the extra skill slot as well.
The only thing that put me off Rattlecage was the lack of a max magicka bonus
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are clearly a lot of people in this thread who have no idea what kind of variety there is within the Blazing Shield build. They think it's max health, plus one button push, and that's it.
Some defile with Fasallas, most buff their group (minor sorc with Illuminate, radiant aura, warhorn), snares, CCs...mine throws down Extended ritual and buffs group health regen with Troll King if anyone drops below 60% health. Blazing Shield (and selective Radiant Destruction attacks) are just the DPS that's available to this kind of tank, but every BS Templar is also building for group utility.
If you don't understand the class, or in this case subclass, don't pretend to know how it needs to be "fixed". To be effective, a BS tank takes far more skill than a proc stam build.Edited by Sandman929 on 14 November 2016 14:542 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Before OneT, I used to purposely go into execute range when facing Templars and spam BS. They always attacked despite knowing I was a full health trollplar and the dmg returned was unreal lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield
For 40k hp your giving up a lot of magicka, your not going to crit 2k per sweep on anything.
Im at like 41k magicka and 3k~ spell dmg now and your lucky to crit a heavy armor build for 1.3 -1.5k.
You can obtain 40k hp and still have 30k magicka, 1800-2k regen, 2500+ spell damage, a 7k shield with up to 74% damage return and so on like @Lexxypwns said. Too many people are under the impression that to run blazing shield that you have to have 75k+ hp. I said it once and I'll say it again, running that much HP for the sole purpose of blazing shield is pointless imo, waiting for people to hit you instead of taking the fight to them is just silly in my mind. Also to the people that keep trying to get BS nerfed, stahp, it's been nerfed several times already, like almost all of the templar skills have been. We're still the only class that had a skill completely removed from the game
Check the build in my sig, has alot of good info there for running 40kish HP blazing shield builds
Edited by Akinos on 14 November 2016 21:07PC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp3 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield
For 40k hp your giving up a lot of magicka, your not going to crit 2k per sweep on anything.
Im at like 41k magicka and 3k~ spell dmg now and your lucky to crit a heavy armor build for 1.3 -1.5k.
You can obtain 40k hp and still have 30k magicka, 1800-2k regen, 2500+ spell damage, a 7k shield with up to 74% damage return and so on like @Lexxypwns said. Too many people are under the impression that to run blazing shield that you have to have 75k+ hp. I said it once and I'll say it again, running that much HP for the sole purpose of blazing shield is pointless imo, waiting for people to hit you instead of taking the fight to them is just silly in my mind. Also to the people that keep trying to get BS nerfed, stahp, it's been nerfed several times already, like almost all of the templar skills have been. We're still the only class that had a skill completely removed from the game
Check the build in my sig, has alot of good info there for running 40kish HP blazing shield builds
Your build opened my eyes to something for sure, that type of setup hard counters proc builds while still providing you with burst. I have more issues fighting the crazy sustain builds than proc builds with a similar gear set to yours. The beauty is, you force people to pick their poison, if they try the "lol I'm gonna ignore this tank" tactic then you have the damage to pressure and kill.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?
Rattlecage is hot garbage and totally not worth running.
Works fine for me, i enjoy the extra skill slot as well.
I'm not sure what skill is more efficient to run than structured entropy, that extra health on your shield bar+ mages guild Passives is VERY strong and you'll get much higher damage from soul shine, julianos, alchemist, or kagsEdited by Lexxypwns on 14 November 2016 21:331 -
SwaminoNowlino✭✭✭✭✭@Sandman929 @Akinos
Those are exactly my points. I have zero problem with the utility tank running these 40-50k hp builds with good offense, good defense, and good group utility. These are solid builds, skillfully played.
These differ from the 80k hp builds who cannot die and do nothing aside from maybe kill a few idiots who don't understand mechanics. I don't want BS nerfed, that's why I'm offering a creative solution that keeps BS strong while offering a very tiny bit of counter play in very niche situations. The vast majority of player encounters wouldn't change, but if a zerg of 80k health BS templars are abusing something, then there is one small, situational counter to that which requires devoting an entire 5-piece set and exposing yourself to be killed.* Most folks wouldn't even notice a change, but it leaves an opportunity for counter play.
Which is all I'm asking for. Don't want the skill nerfed and don't want to radically change an element of the game. Just want some balance. The build is still strong against proc sets, and it requires people to devote an entire 5 piece to combat one single build. Shield breaker damage would remain effectively unchanged against sorcs and LA builds, and the damage just escalates proportionally upwards depending on the targets max health. It shouldn't be a one shot, no matter the health. But two or three people wearing it could have a realistic chance of killing the 80k health builds in the zerg. Heck, for all I care don't start the escalation until health is over 55k or so. Would just be nice if everyone was participating in the risk vs reward that PVP should be, in my opinion.
* An example of this is my last PVP experience, trying to defend Sejanus with about 9 others. A group of 20+, mostly templars, with 4 70k+ BS builds rolls up, front doors the place. They get healed by the others and just run the battering ram. Defenders are dropping oil, which doesn't hurt the tanks, while the rest of the group is focusing on taking out healers. Offensive group isn't even trying to do damage. They are just resurrecting and healing. There is nothing the defensive group can do. Nothing. Offensive group rolls in, takes the flags with the BS templars standing there getting healed. Again focus the healers. Again just heal and rez. The outpost flips, the adds spawn, and defenders are left to fight adds and ranged damage while shielded by the trollplars. Funny thing is this happened a couple different times, one time a defensive zerg showed up, wiped the healers, and the trollplars just stood around while we repaired the outpost with them in it. How is this good gameplay?Xbox NA : CP 160 StamPlar, MagNB, MagSorc, StamSorc, StamDK, StamNB, Level 10 MagDK & MagPlar, StamWarden, MagWarden
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome." - The Balance Lord Wrobel
- And now it sure does, better learn how to bash folks!
I get by with a little help from logic.0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SwaminoNowlino wrote: »@Sandman929 @Akinos
Those are exactly my points. I have zero problem with the utility tank running these 40-50k hp builds with good offense, good defense, and good group utility. These are solid builds, skillfully played.
These differ from the 80k hp builds who cannot die and do nothing aside from maybe kill a few idiots who don't understand mechanics. I don't want BS nerfed, that's why I'm offering a creative solution that keeps BS strong while offering a very tiny bit of counter play in very niche situations. The vast majority of player encounters wouldn't change, but if a zerg of 80k health BS templars are abusing something, then there is one small, situational counter to that which requires devoting an entire 5-piece set and exposing yourself to be killed.* Most folks wouldn't even notice a change, but it leaves an opportunity for counter play.
Which is all I'm asking for. Don't want the skill nerfed and don't want to radically change an element of the game. Just want some balance. The build is still strong against proc sets, and it requires people to devote an entire 5 piece to combat one single build. Shield breaker damage would remain effectively unchanged against sorcs and LA builds, and the damage just escalates proportionally upwards depending on the targets max health. It shouldn't be a one shot, no matter the health. But two or three people wearing it could have a realistic chance of killing the 80k health builds in the zerg. Heck, for all I care don't start the escalation until health is over 55k or so. Would just be nice if everyone was participating in the risk vs reward that PVP should be, in my opinion.
* An example of this is my last PVP experience, trying to defend Sejanus with about 9 others. A group of 20+, mostly templars, with 4 70k+ BS builds rolls up, front doors the place. They get healed by the others and just run the battering ram. Defenders are dropping oil, which doesn't hurt the tanks, while the rest of the group is focusing on taking out healers. Offensive group isn't even trying to do damage. They are just resurrecting and healing. There is nothing the defensive group can do. Nothing. Offensive group rolls in, takes the flags with the BS templars standing there getting healed. Again focus the healers. Again just heal and rez. The outpost flips, the adds spawn, and defenders are left to fight adds and ranged damage while shielded by the trollplars. Funny thing is this happened a couple different times, one time a defensive zerg showed up, wiped the healers, and the trollplars just stood around while we repaired the outpost with them in it. How is this good gameplay?
There's no 80k hp build with enough sustain to survive any real amount of time when you counter them. If you don't want to put ranged roots, snares, CC, and damage then it's your fault. All it takes is proc'ing magika cost poison over and over, you'll out sustain and kill the tank eventually1 -
SturgeHammer✭✭✭✭SwaminoNowlino wrote: »Change the shield breaker set damage to be a percent based on targets max health. This will benefit LA magicka sorcs while making it riskier to run high health builds. This change doesn't nerf Blazing Shield, just requires a bit more skill. And is beneficial to other Shield builds.
Not sure how effective this would be in practice, but shield breaker used to (probably still does) have a weird interaction with channeled heavy attacks causing the unresistsble damage to proc on every tick of the channel. So maybe running Resto Staff or Lightning Staff + shield breaker will have the effect you are looking for.First-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
Green-Thumb - Scale-Factor
Hist-Tree-Major - A-Late-One
Needs-Some-Help - Dead-Last0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield
For 40k hp your giving up a lot of magicka, your not going to crit 2k per sweep on anything.
Im at like 41k magicka and 3k~ spell dmg now and your lucky to crit a heavy armor build for 1.3 -1.5k.
You can obtain 40k hp and still have 30k magicka, 1800-2k regen, 2500+ spell damage, a 7k shield with up to 74% damage return and so on like @Lexxypwns said. Too many people are under the impression that to run blazing shield that you have to have 75k+ hp. I said it once and I'll say it again, running that much HP for the sole purpose of blazing shield is pointless imo, waiting for people to hit you instead of taking the fight to them is just silly in my mind. Also to the people that keep trying to get BS nerfed, stahp, it's been nerfed several times already, like almost all of the templar skills have been. We're still the only class that had a skill completely removed from the game
Check the build in my sig, has alot of good info there for running 40kish HP blazing shield builds
Your build opened my eyes to something for sure, that type of setup hard counters proc builds while still providing you with burst. I have more issues fighting the crazy sustain builds than proc builds with a similar gear set to yours. The beauty is, you force people to pick their poison, if they try the "lol I'm gonna ignore this tank" tactic then you have the damage to pressure and kill.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?
Rattlecage is hot garbage and totally not worth running.
Works fine for me, i enjoy the extra skill slot as well.
I'm not sure what skill is more efficient to run than structured entropy, that extra health on your shield bar+ mages guild Passives is VERY strong and you'll get much higher damage from soul shine, julianos, alchemist, or kags
I use inner light or vamps bane on my damage bar. Extra crit, magicka and regen is nice, plus the empower and nb reveal.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield
For 40k hp your giving up a lot of magicka, your not going to crit 2k per sweep on anything.
Im at like 41k magicka and 3k~ spell dmg now and your lucky to crit a heavy armor build for 1.3 -1.5k.
You can obtain 40k hp and still have 30k magicka, 1800-2k regen, 2500+ spell damage, a 7k shield with up to 74% damage return and so on like @Lexxypwns said. Too many people are under the impression that to run blazing shield that you have to have 75k+ hp. I said it once and I'll say it again, running that much HP for the sole purpose of blazing shield is pointless imo, waiting for people to hit you instead of taking the fight to them is just silly in my mind. Also to the people that keep trying to get BS nerfed, stahp, it's been nerfed several times already, like almost all of the templar skills have been. We're still the only class that had a skill completely removed from the game
Check the build in my sig, has alot of good info there for running 40kish HP blazing shield builds
Your build opened my eyes to something for sure, that type of setup hard counters proc builds while still providing you with burst. I have more issues fighting the crazy sustain builds than proc builds with a similar gear set to yours. The beauty is, you force people to pick their poison, if they try the "lol I'm gonna ignore this tank" tactic then you have the damage to pressure and kill.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?
Rattlecage is hot garbage and totally not worth running.
Works fine for me, i enjoy the extra skill slot as well.
I'm not sure what skill is more efficient to run than structured entropy, that extra health on your shield bar+ mages guild Passives is VERY strong and you'll get much higher damage from soul shine, julianos, alchemist, or kags
I use inner light or vamps bane on my damage bar. Extra crit, magicka and regen is nice, plus the empower and nb reveal.
There's some redundancy with vamps bane and inner light both giving major prophecy, which is why I ultimately chose structured entropy over inner or radiant light. I use detect pots now if its find this NB or die, otherwise sweeps is my reveal. You could also just run major sorcery pots, but honestly, rattlecage is BAD, especially since HP isn't a dead stat anymore since the only potential counter play to proctards is to have enough health to not get 1 shot0 -
Synozeer✭✭✭✭✭Been running over 47k health on my bomplar. I'm able to get 2600+ spell power and have 28k+ magicka. My blazing shield hits hard, my spells hit harder than before and my heals actually make a difference. Makes it very hard for someone to ignore you, unlike bomplars that just run all health.
Super high health bomplars are for standing in zergs and hitting one button until you die. Most of the time when you're spamming your shield, you're not getting the full benefit of your shield maxing out and exploding, so having smaller shields (mine are still around 8.5k) aren't going to make too much of a difference.Watch my PvP Videos on YouTube
Azoi - Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant - NA Server - 1st DC NA Grand Overlord
Hzarn - Templar - Daggerfall Covenant - NA Server - Grand Overlord
...and many more.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »That's just Templars adjusting to the proc set instant death game we're all playing.
Just like shield stacking sorcs sometimes running Infernal Guardian to give them some offense when casting their defensive shields. We either all fall in with the meta or find alternatives to the meta.
Blazing shield Templars have to sacrifice almost all of their offensive edge to function. Many people pointed out in various other posts the best way to deal with a BS Templar is to just not engage them. I do have to admit it sounds funny though with players killing themselves with reflected damage...
Bwahahaha, the good blazing shield templars aren't the ones running 65-90k health, they're the ones in the 40-50k range with good recovery and 2500 spell or weapon damage.
A 40k blazing shield templar? lol..
Most definitely, that's a 7.5k shield with 2k sweeps crits and a 6k per second eye tooltip. Add in slimecraw and you're looking at 5k crits from blazing, immense aoe damage and you're not just fodder for range builds. You also get to have solid resource management and options besides just blazing shield. If you want to run HP on a templar, magika or stam, 40-50k is the sweet spot where you can still get enough other stats to be effective at more than just spamming blazing shield
For 40k hp your giving up a lot of magicka, your not going to crit 2k per sweep on anything.
Im at like 41k magicka and 3k~ spell dmg now and your lucky to crit a heavy armor build for 1.3 -1.5k.
You can obtain 40k hp and still have 30k magicka, 1800-2k regen, 2500+ spell damage, a 7k shield with up to 74% damage return and so on like @Lexxypwns said. Too many people are under the impression that to run blazing shield that you have to have 75k+ hp. I said it once and I'll say it again, running that much HP for the sole purpose of blazing shield is pointless imo, waiting for people to hit you instead of taking the fight to them is just silly in my mind. Also to the people that keep trying to get BS nerfed, stahp, it's been nerfed several times already, like almost all of the templar skills have been. We're still the only class that had a skill completely removed from the game
Check the build in my sig, has alot of good info there for running 40kish HP blazing shield builds
Your build opened my eyes to something for sure, that type of setup hard counters proc builds while still providing you with burst. I have more issues fighting the crazy sustain builds than proc builds with a similar gear set to yours. The beauty is, you force people to pick their poison, if they try the "lol I'm gonna ignore this tank" tactic then you have the damage to pressure and kill.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Stratforge wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »
are you suggesting that most of the templars currently playing blaze tanks don't actually want to play like that? i dont agree. there are plenty of ways templars can adjust to the proc meta that don't involve running 75k health. i think its safe to say that everyone playing a build like that wants to do so, and its easy to see why.
Yup I am suggesting that.
The other tanky options for Templar exchange damage potential for tankiness. You can run malubeth+reactive and survive very well against anything other than being zerged down, but you will do no damage. On the other hand, blazing shield builds just do more damage the more tanky they are.
At the moment, the best way to retain the ability to kill people and adjust to the proc meta is an excessively high health blazing shield build which is why more and more people are running them.
Or just throw on rattle cage and lich and you'll be fine?
Rattlecage is hot garbage and totally not worth running.
Works fine for me, i enjoy the extra skill slot as well.
I'm not sure what skill is more efficient to run than structured entropy, that extra health on your shield bar+ mages guild Passives is VERY strong and you'll get much higher damage from soul shine, julianos, alchemist, or kags
I use inner light or vamps bane on my damage bar. Extra crit, magicka and regen is nice, plus the empower and nb reveal.
There's some redundancy with vamps bane and inner light both giving major prophecy, which is why I ultimately chose structured entropy over inner or radiant light. I use detect pots now if its find this NB or die, otherwise sweeps is my reveal. You could also just run major sorcery pots, but honestly, rattlecage is BAD, especially since HP isn't a dead stat anymore since the only potential counter play to proctards is to have enough health to not get 1 shot
Just by using heavy you'll have like 25k anyway, you really dont need much more hp.
The good thing about vamps bane or the other morph is if you cast it you get crit on both bars so more crit heals as well.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Unsent.Soul✭✭✭✭✭
✭The build is just as easy to play as proc builds, is interesting because damage output depends on damage intake and can easily incite hate mail because of the distinct lack of skill it would take to be successful. The build practically demands the response "Why are you killing yourself bro?" I can guarantee not one Templar running this build is doing it just to spite the damage meta. I'm even building one because it looks fun as hell. I'm even building one because it looks fun inside and outside of PvP.
Yeah, I started mine before all the proctato stuff mainly because I was always curious about the skill, and how well I could balance its damage with an actual effective build. I think I'm there.
People think all you do is spam one skill, but that's far from the truth. You have to be clever about how you keep your health up with bad healing, you have to be careful with resource management, because with a high health pool, your other resources suffer. People don't think about that. They just think you hit that blazing shield over and over again. Well no, that will get you killed because you'll quickly run out of resources, and your timing needs to be perfect on the shield for the best results.
As for PVE, I love it. Not only do I contribute to a lot of the groups DPS, but I can provide utility, like cleanses and repentance, so our healer can run other things.
I use Swarm Mother to make up for the lack of chains, which really, you need for clumping up all the mobs and pulling ranged mobs into the cluster. So inner fire is pretty much a must for that ranged taunt, but that's cool.
The only thing that sucks for Templar tanks is no AOE root like encase or talons, so if trash mobs move out of the kill circle, you need to try and pull them back in.
Best of all, he's never wiped in a group dungeon once. I've managed to tank the boss and res the group before. You won't find a tankier a tank.
If you're even remotely curious about playing a blazing shield Templar, I say go for it. Theorycrafting them is fun, and playing them even more so.
Not to ride coat-tails but I couldn't have said this any better.
0 -
Stratforge✭✭✭✭So let me get this straight.
We the Templars must run only what you say we must run?
Blazing shield is a great skill, it's the anti meta.
The irony is funny, because proc sets are currently ruining pvp and making very average players now seemingly good. They've kind of destroyed the technical skill of pvp'ing, and that's what's most disappointing. Yet people complain about the anti meta?! Kill the meta, and the anti meta wouldn't exist...
So when Templars make blazing shield tanks (me included) I'm not doing it because it's hilarious. I'm doing it because instead of moaning about being one shot due to a viper tremorscale proc, I'm gonna stand there and take it now, let's fight and see what happens. Might win, might lose. But if you want to run your trashy 59 proc's build you're gonna have to work for your kill. Deal with it ☺️
You people are so myopic its unbelievable. I've never ran a proc set in my life. I fervently believe the proc meta is bad JUST LIKE YOU. I don't think a gimmicky 80k health build that does nothing but ruin fights is good for the game either. I play a magicka templar and I adjusted to the proc meta by going heavy armor and running a bit extra health. It works fine and I don't have to play a bogus one-button build to do it. The people rolling BS tanks now are doing it because it's easy and they like it.
Edit: Everyone running over 50k health is catching the bags from here on out. It's too hard to guess who's the disease and who's the cure anymore.Edited by Stratforge on 15 November 2016 01:20PC NA
Xbox One NA (retired)0