Explain to me exactly how stamina nightblades are cheesy

Takes-No-Prisoner

Lewandowsky wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

I setup my ganking build with the specific goal of being able to insta-gib heavy armor proc set users who average around 25k hp.

Basically it goes Spriggan + Kra'gh + Sharpened + Mace. Since I'm not applying major fracture on the initial gank, the mace gives full benefit. So let's say a dude has 20k armor (pretty normal for heavy armor and 1h/shield running unbuffed on their horse). 20,000*0.80 = 16,000 - 5000 - 4000 - 2000 = 5000. So a 20k armor heavy armor user only has 5000 armor to protect them against my heavy attack + Ambush + Incap.

Spriggan is on the 2h bar (3 jewelery + 1 armor + 2h mace), and Clever Alchemist is on the bow bar (bow + 4 armor), Kra'gh + Kena/Veli. You buff, potion+magelight, and wind up a heavy attack on the bow bar - then you use weapon swap to fire the heavy attack and immediately ambush. The Ambush and Heavy attack will hit around 30-100ms of each other (less than 1/10th of a second), then your Incap strike will hit within 1/2 a second of the Ambush. The heaviest targets might need a follow up killer's blade or surprise attack but most are toast.

The mace just gets stronger against higher armor, but even against medium armor people with ~13k armor, it gives about the same damage that a Sword would so it's rarely a loss.

why do you bother with magelight? there's a bunch of different buffs you went with the one the increases spell ratings? u're knocking it out of the park with it i'm just missing something. not the fighters guild instead? or mirage or grim focus?

Radiant Mage Light and Might of the Guild 2/2

Radiant on a Gank NB lets us sniff out other people hidden around us. The goal of having Radiant on the bar is to chain Empower twice

When in Stealth;

Assassin's Skill tree buffs are active, activate Radiant Mage Light and that + Empower stacks with HA from Bow. I've hit people coming out of Stealth + Empower + Proc on Viper for around 10K+ damage. (Bow has a passive that adds additional Physical DMG based on distance to the target BTW)

Ambush to gap close to target grants empower to Incap Strike

After that, if they alive its only 1/2 attacks and they dead as a door nail. Me or another poster could break down all the buffs involved if you're still curious about seeing it, it'll take about 20min to write up though. There is a lot going on under the hood buff wise to make what the NB did in the vid happen.

Kutsuu

My highest bow heavy attack crit so far is 17k, vs medium armor (his armor was fully penetrated) who obviously didn't have any impen. The highest hit I've seen with Incap strike is 18k vs a similar target. The average heavy attack against a well armored full impen target is around 12k, and 13-14k incap if it crits - of course incap is not guaranteed to crit.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Kutsuu wrote: »

My highest bow heavy attack crit so far is 18k, vs medium armor (his armor was fully penetrated) who obviously didn't have any impen. The highest hit I've seen with Incap strike is also 18k vs a similar target. The average heavy attack against a well armored full impen target is around 12k.

I was chasing a dude outside of Glademist Mine, and went into stealth and casually hit him for 8K crit from that and he died. He was already low on health from the guards. It was pretty hilarious to watch.

ZombieZig

Im a stealth dot mNB... thats cheese? It relies on stealth. Caught without it i die. A million things can take me out of stealth so...its really up to my opponent to pull his finger out of his nose.

I have a sNB aswell in Velidroth, viper and widow... i pull him out to hunt those that grieve, camp or talk big. Your right... thats cheese.

But keep mNB builds out of this. It requires skill and patience to play one especially nowadays in pvp where many have high magika resist and your still squishy as hell.

ZombieZig

Double post*

SilentBoomstick

acw37162 wrote: »

I have read and reread this post multiple times.
I have written out four different detailed well though out responses.
I have written two snarky as hell responses and deleted all six although I think they are saved in my drafts.

Here is a simple fact night blades are urber strong in PVP and PVE.

Here is another fact; you like to complain, a lot. Night blades have a plethora some of the strongest skills in the game you have laundry lists of complaints about these skills.

Good luck and god bless, brother.

Yes they definitely do have a hell of a lot of offensive abilities but where is this defense? A useless cloak?

Edit: You are so wrong. They do not excel in PVE or PVP. Go run veteran maelstrom right now, send a link of you running it on a nightblade. Then send a link of you doing PvP without ganking. Then you have the right to say that they excel in this game.

SilentBoomstick

Kutsuu wrote: »

Lewandowsky wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Grim Focus and Shuffle are already on my bar. Magelight procs Might of the Guild - IE EMPOWER.

You do realize that ambush to incap does the exact same thing?

SilentBoomstick

Kutsuu wrote: »

My highest bow heavy attack crit so far is 17k, vs medium armor (his armor was fully penetrated) who obviously didn't have any impen. The highest hit I've seen with Incap strike is 18k vs a similar target. The average heavy attack against a well armored full impen target is around 12k, and 13-14k incap if it crits - of course incap is not guaranteed to crit.

I can get 5.1k weapon damage and I have a lot of armor penetration. Hell, I even asked my friend to take off all his armor and the hardest I have hit was 12k.

Edit: You lie. Incappacitating strikes only hits about 9k crit on people wearing impen. Non impen that is as hard as it can hit - 15k. Then people tell me they can get their surprise attack to deal 16k damage from stealth, here I am with 5.1k weapon damage while they claim to have 4.5k hitting almost more than half of what I hit. Do I believe someone when they tell me they can crit sap essence to hit for 94k or then tell me they can take over a keep by themselves? NO!

thankyourat

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

I have read and reread this post multiple times.
I have written out four different detailed well though out responses.
I have written two snarky as hell responses and deleted all six although I think they are saved in my drafts.

Here is a simple fact night blades are urber strong in PVP and PVE.

Here is another fact; you like to complain, a lot. Night blades have a plethora some of the strongest skills in the game you have laundry lists of complaints about these skills.

Good luck and god bless, brother.

Yes they definitely do have a hell of a lot of offensive abilities but where is this defense? A useless cloak?

Edit: You are so wrong. They do not excel in PVE or PVP. Go run veteran maelstrom right now, send a link of you running it on a nightblade. Then send a link of you doing PvP without ganking. Then you have the right to say that they excel in this game.

There are plenty of defensive abilities a nightblade has, shadow image, double take, fear, damage reduction from cloak, increase armor from using shadow abilities, sure they require more skill and are more situational but they are useful skills. Nightblades can be annoying but for the most part your defense comes from going on the offensive and pressuring your opponent.

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

My highest bow heavy attack crit so far is 17k, vs medium armor (his armor was fully penetrated) who obviously didn't have any impen. The highest hit I've seen with Incap strike is 18k vs a similar target. The average heavy attack against a well armored full impen target is around 12k, and 13-14k incap if it crits - of course incap is not guaranteed to crit.

I can get 5.1k weapon damage and I have a lot of armor penetration. Hell, I even asked my friend to take off all his armor and the hardest I have hit was 12k.

Edit: You lie. Incappacitating strikes only hits about 9k crit on people wearing impen. Non impen that is as hard as it can hit - 15k. Then people tell me they can get their surprise attack to deal 16k damage from stealth, here I am with 5.1k weapon damage while they claim to have 4.5k hitting almost more than half of what I hit. Do I believe someone when they tell me they can crit sap essence to hit for 94k or then tell me they can take over a keep by themselves? NO!

Lol most of cyrodiil has bad builds I wouldn't doubt a stamblade could hit that hard I've hit people for 12k concealed weapons and 27k assassins will. Which is more impressive on my opponents part. I don't even know how you could be so squishy

Kutsuu

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

My highest bow heavy attack crit so far is 17k, vs medium armor (his armor was fully penetrated) who obviously didn't have any impen. The highest hit I've seen with Incap strike is 18k vs a similar target. The average heavy attack against a well armored full impen target is around 12k, and 13-14k incap if it crits - of course incap is not guaranteed to crit.

I can get 5.1k weapon damage and I have a lot of armor penetration. Hell, I even asked my friend to take off all his armor and the hardest I have hit was 12k.

Edit: You lie. Incappacitating strikes only hits about 9k crit on people wearing impen. Non impen that is as hard as it can hit - 15k. Then people tell me they can get their surprise attack to deal 16k damage from stealth, here I am with 5.1k weapon damage while they claim to have 4.5k hitting almost more than half of what I hit. Do I believe someone when they tell me they can crit sap essence to hit for 94k or then tell me they can take over a keep by themselves? NO!

Dude you can see it in my video that I linked right here in this thread. The combat log is clearly visible. Rarely do I hit for less than 10k on Incap when it crits. Most are in the 12-14k range, and that video was without Shadow Mundus. I've changed over to shadow and made some changes to CP that are causing the 17-18k crits.

hobicabobjob

I miss cloak.

Mauz

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Edit: You lie. Incappacitating strikes only hits about 9k crit on people wearing impen. Non impen that is as hard as it can hit - 15k. Then people tell me they can get their surprise attack to deal 16k damage from stealth, here I am with 5.1k weapon damage while they claim to have 4.5k hitting almost more than half of what I hit.

The hardest hit i took from incap was 14,6k in no cp Azura. With cp and without impen it would be around 18k. Actually its only one guy in the whole campaign who can do that constantly. All others hit for less than 10k. Ask yourself how thats gonna be possible. Small hint: another player out of his group killed me recently by a meteor follow by soul tether.

Strider_Roshin

hobicabobjob wrote: »

I miss cloak.

I don't mind the fact that it's gone. Gives bad players one less thing to whine about.

Kutsuu

Mauz wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Edit: You lie. Incappacitating strikes only hits about 9k crit on people wearing impen. Non impen that is as hard as it can hit - 15k. Then people tell me they can get their surprise attack to deal 16k damage from stealth, here I am with 5.1k weapon damage while they claim to have 4.5k hitting almost more than half of what I hit.

The hardest hit i took from incap was 14,6k in no cp Azura. With cp and without impen it would be around 18k. Actually its only one guy in the whole campaign who can do that constantly. All others hit for less than 10k. Ask yourself how thats gonna be possible. Small hint: another player out of his group killed me recently by a meteor follow by soul tether.

Using Ambush to Empower the Incap is a big part of it. Most players don't seem to do that. There's more to ganking people than just mashing buttons.

Strider_Roshin

How are stam Nightblades cheesy? Well that's easy. They're a lot like Swiss cheese, easy to rip apart.

bebynnag

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

How are stam Nightblades cheesy? Well that's easy. They're a lot like Swiss cheese, easy to rip apart.

I thought it was because incapacitating strike drew on the stinky power of cheese to flaw the oponent?

SilentBoomstick

thankyourat wrote: »

There are plenty of defensive abilities a nightblade has, shadow image, double take, fear, damage reduction from cloak, increase armor from using shadow abilities, sure they require more skill and are more situational but they are useful skills. Nightblades can be annoying but for the most part your defense comes from going on the offensive and pressuring your opponent.

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Shadow image is good but very hard to master, not a pve ability. Double take is broken and I use shuffle instead because it removes snare and plus I need the magicka to cloak away, not a pve ability. Cloak is really unreliable and only works against bad players, also not a pve ability. I am more than aware by now that nightblades best defense is offense. That does not always works, actually to be honest with you it does not really work because that just means the entire games mechanics are against you. While a templar has everlasting heals, a magicka nightblade has infinite cloak, and a stamina dragonknight has the ability the absorb loads of damage and actually put out decent damage, sorcerers have shields but I am not going to lie sorcerers are harder to play that a nightblade, a stamblade has the entire games mechanics strongly against them because 3 of 3 of those classes that I just mentioned, not a sorcerer, has actual built in defense that will keep you alive. I know a guy that told me the easiest class to do Veteran Maelstrom Arena on is a magicka nightblade. I don't know why that is but if he says it is then I believe it because he got flawless conqueror on every single on of his characters.

Kutsuu wrote: »

Mauz wrote: »

The hardest hit i took from incap was 14,6k in no cp Azura. With cp and without impen it would be around 18k. Actually its only one guy in the whole campaign who can do that constantly. All others hit for less than 10k. Ask yourself how thats gonna be possible. Small hint: another player out of his group killed me recently by a meteor follow by soul tether.

Using Ambush to Empower the Incap is a big part of it. Most players don't seem to do that. There's more to ganking people than just mashing buttons.

The absolute hardest I have ever been hit by with that ability in impen is 9k at the most. I was dueling my friend and at one point I hit him with that ability for 10k and he was wearing all impen. Then rest of the times after that it was 8.4k with the ambush to incap. That guy must have been emperor in that campaign. When I buff up with 5.1k weapon damage it says it hits for 20k with 36k maximum stamina. I have a really hard time believing what you say. You'd have to be running some really really cheesy build like 5 clever alchemist, 2 molag keena, and 5 ravagager with 9k weapon damage. If I can get 5.1k weapon damage with 36k maximum stamina and you have the same stats or less than me I would need to see proof or it didn't happen. Post a picture so I can see.

Strider_Roshin

Here's the fact of the matter. Stam Nightblades are probably one of the weakest opponents out there. The reason? Because DKs and Templars can double dip with Major Mending AND Major Vitality. This makes them unkillable. ZOS needs to convert major vitality pots into major mending. That way everyone can have access to that passive. Because currently ZOS has really botched things up in terms of class balance.

GreenSoup2HoT

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Here's the fact of the matter. Stam Nightblades are probably one of the weakest opponents out there. The reason? Because DKs and Templars can double dip with Major Mending AND Major Vitality. This makes them unkillable. ZOS needs to convert major vitality pots into major mending. That way everyone can have access to that passive. Because currently ZOS has really botched things up in terms of class balance.

Thats ONLY if the gank fails. I can kill plenty of people with my gankblade. They are very very good at that but when it comes to manning up and fighting an honourable battle out of stealth, stamblade in medium just sucks.

Medium Armour Nightblades are the most reliant class on dodge and cloak because of mediocre heals compared to other classes. Don't get me wrong stamblades can 1vX good but its always that big burst, hide, dodge kind of playstyle. Just a couple DoT's like poison injection can be the death of you in 1vX.

Stamsorcs just streak and darkdeal. Templars can purge and Dks got shields (while they both got mending). Nightblades as soon as you get them out of cloak and prevent it they are just terrible.

Just my 2 cents.

Strider_Roshin

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Here's the fact of the matter. Stam Nightblades are probably one of the weakest opponents out there. The reason? Because DKs and Templars can double dip with Major Mending AND Major Vitality. This makes them unkillable. ZOS needs to convert major vitality pots into major mending. That way everyone can have access to that passive. Because currently ZOS has really botched things up in terms of class balance.

Thats ONLY if the gank fails. I can kill plenty of people with my gankblade. They are very very good at that but when it comes to manning up and fighting an honourable battle out of stealth, stamblade in medium just sucks.

Medium Armour Nightblades are the most reliant class on dodge and cloak because of mediocre heals compared to other classes. Don't get me wrong stamblades can 1vX good but its always that big burst, hide, dodge kind of playstyle. Just a couple DoT's like poison injection can be the death of you in 1vX.

Stamsorcs just streak and darkdeal. Templars can purge and Dks got shields (while they both got mending). Nightblades as soon as you get them out of cloak and prevent it they are just terrible.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh my gosh. Who really cares about class balance in the context of ganking? I'm talking about the context of a 1v1 duel. This is the best way to compare classes in terms of PvP class balance.

Lewandowsky

In about as near to agreement as such things get, it seems people more than not feel Stam blades are made for burst stun kill or die quick. Exceptions exist in style and build of course.

There are just a lot of dimwits who figure the only way the stealthy assassination class should PVP is to tap someone on the shoulder first and give them a chance to buff. Cause bursty kill to them means the nb can't play. No one should play the assassin. With the assassin class. Give me a break.

#dontteabagtheganker

GreenSoup2HoT

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Here's the fact of the matter. Stam Nightblades are probably one of the weakest opponents out there. The reason? Because DKs and Templars can double dip with Major Mending AND Major Vitality. This makes them unkillable. ZOS needs to convert major vitality pots into major mending. That way everyone can have access to that passive. Because currently ZOS has really botched things up in terms of class balance.

Thats ONLY if the gank fails. I can kill plenty of people with my gankblade. They are very very good at that but when it comes to manning up and fighting an honourable battle out of stealth, stamblade in medium just sucks.

Medium Armour Nightblades are the most reliant class on dodge and cloak because of mediocre heals compared to other classes. Don't get me wrong stamblades can 1vX good but its always that big burst, hide, dodge kind of playstyle. Just a couple DoT's like poison injection can be the death of you in 1vX.

Stamsorcs just streak and darkdeal. Templars can purge and Dks got shields (while they both got mending). Nightblades as soon as you get them out of cloak and prevent it they are just terrible.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh my gosh. Who really cares about class balance in the context of ganking? I'm talking about the context of a 1v1 duel. This is the best way to compare classes in terms of PvP class balance.

I agree with you.