Why hasnt Shuffle been nerfed yet?

Paneross

It's so broken you could swear they were animation cancelling roll dodges.

Asardes

Shuffle and roll dodges are two different mechanics:
- evasion base skills as well as morphs shuffle and elude both grant the major evasion - 20% chance to dodge the next attack. The same buff is granted by the NB class skill blur, with morphs mirage and double take and the hist bark craftable set while you block. I see no problem with either the skills or the set.
- roll dodging gives you 100% chance of dodging the next attack for a number of seconds. Here I tend to agree the duration of the effect needs to be decreased a bit or simply receive a cool down of X seconds after someone dodges so the 2nd and 3rd dodge in short sequence don't grant it.

Alucardo

Asardes wrote: »

Shuffle and roll dodges are two different mechanics:
- evasion base skills as well as morphs shuffle and elude both grant the major evasion - 20% chance to dodge the next attack. The same buff is granted by the NB class skill blur, with morphs mirage and double take and the hist bark craftable set while you block. I see no problem with either the skills or the set.
- roll dodging gives you 100% chance of dodging the next attack for a number of seconds. Here I tend to agree the duration of the effect needs to be decreased a bit or simply receive a cool down of X seconds after someone dodges so the 2nd and 3rd dodge in short sequence don't grant it.

I think he knows all of this, but he's getting at how often shuffle dodges attacks

Asardes

From my own experience it's working about 1 out of 5 times as it's supposed to. It's pretty effective. Didn't run it at first but now I replaced WB on my 2H bar with Shuffle; wasn't using it anyway as I'm mostly ranged and use 2H only for gap closing and execute. Roll dodging seems really broken though. I see people spamming it and it's indeed pretty frustrating. Try doing it myself but run out of stamina pretty quick. My regeneration is around 1.6K with Orsinium food but I don't run well fitted on my gear. They probably do. And if you press block at some point it actually cancels part of the animation.

DHale

It's never going to be nerfed.... Ever. As a primary magic player. More pew pew less qq.

Erock25

Paneross wrote: »

It's so broken you could swear they were animation cancelling roll dodges.

I see what you did there.

Paneross

Alucardo wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Shuffle and roll dodges are two different mechanics:
- evasion base skills as well as morphs shuffle and elude both grant the major evasion - 20% chance to dodge the next attack. The same buff is granted by the NB class skill blur, with morphs mirage and double take and the hist bark craftable set while you block. I see no problem with either the skills or the set.
- roll dodging gives you 100% chance of dodging the next attack for a number of seconds. Here I tend to agree the duration of the effect needs to be decreased a bit or simply receive a cool down of X seconds after someone dodges so the 2nd and 3rd dodge in short sequence don't grant it.

I think he knows all of this, but he's getting at how often shuffle dodges attacks

Lol thanks for pointing that out.

booksmcread

It should only last as long as Annulment.

Minno

booksmcread wrote: »

It should only last as long as Annulment.

That's a good change.
And have same cost as the HA skill.

Or rework it so that it only applies additional dmg, and let dodge chance exist in sets or actual dodge rolling. You can scale The dmg down to compensate?

Probably easier to just reduce the timer, increase the cost and make some skills undodgable.

Armitas

The combat in this game is beyond the definition of broken.

Minalan

Armitas wrote: »

The combat in this game is beyond the definition of broken.

There is, but he's not doing his job...

CapuchinSeven

deleted, wrong thread

ZoM_Head

Armitas wrote: »

The combat in this game is beyond the definition of broken.

On the PTS 90% of the duals i went up against used shuffle. Light, medium and heavy users are just relying on it too much, and yes i see a massive amount of attacks being dodged.

Your log pretty much sums it up.

CylindricalBox

Roll dodge and Major Evasion are actually quite similar. When you activate a roll dodge, you gain immunity to all dodgeable attacks for a short period of time. The exact number is not easy or even possible to derive, but suffice it to say the immunity lasts about one second. Correspondingly, when you dodge an attack with an Evasion buff, you continue to dodge attacks which can be dodged for a short period of time. This functions exactly like roll dodge, only for a much shorter duration.

Asardes wrote: »

evasion base skills as well as morphs shuffle and elude both grant the major evasion - 20% chance to dodge the next attack.

Actually, Major Evasion is not just a 20% chance to dodge the next attack, it is a 20% chance to dodge all (dodgeable) attacks for a very short amount of time. This is what makes the buff so powerful – too powerful, perhaps. This is why attacks seem to miss all at once on a target with Shuffle.

Skills which have multiple hits in a short period of time or in an instant are the most apt illustration of this mechanic. Namely, Biting Jabs, Force Shock, or any sort of light attack, instant skill, bash combination are all keen to be dodged by Major Evasion because a dodge of one hit means a dodge to any and all subsequent hits shortly afterwards.

And just an aside while I'm writing about Shuffle, there is no such thing as a "Shuffle stack." The term probably originates from an old bug with Evasion's duration, which could be refreshed, or "stacked," indefinitely. This bug had no effect on the Major Evasion buff other than its duration, and it has since been fixed.

Minalan

If hasn't been nerfed because the devs playing use it extensively and play exclusively stamina builds.

Paneross

Armitas wrote: »

The combat in this game is beyond the definition of broken.

Lol and they say RD is broken.

Bakven

Armitas wrote: »

The combat in this game is beyond the definition of broken.

this is obviously a l2p issue, you seem to only do about 2 attacks per second. you need to use macros and get good at about 5-6 per second like all the best players

but seriously, it's broken af just like half of the skills/gear/literally anything Zos does seems to be broken as soon as it comes out

Abob

The future is combat 100% based on RNG.

exeeter702

Minalan wrote: »

If hasn't been nerfed because the devs playing use it extensively and play exclusively stamina builds.

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous mentality.

Qbiken

To answer the question: Because it doesn´t need to be nerfed. End of discussion

Bakven

Qbiken wrote: »

To answer the question: Because it doesn´t need to be nerfed. End of discussion

Actually yes it does. The fact that there's even a random dodge chance in the game is ridiculous. But even then 20% is too high and you have it doing even more than that. there are people saying they've gotten the "random" dodge chance 5 times in a row, or that it's dodging well over 1 in 5 attacks. Zos needs to look at their code and make sure it's actually 20% or more preferably just take it down to 5-10%

thankyourat

Qbiken wrote: »

To answer the question: Because it doesn´t need to be nerfed. End of discussion

It's over preforming big time. you really notice it when you play a destro build though. I think shuffle is fine on stamblade and even stamsorc. But on stamplar and stam dk shuffle is just too much, the dodge chance needs to go. You have a very small window to burst down a stam dk or stamplar, I can't afford to have an attack miss. I think getting rid of the dodge chance on shuffle would be a step in the right direction regarding balance

Minalan

Cut shuffle to six seconds already.

Why? Because you need to make a choice whether to go defensive or offensive.

Paraflex

I tested shuffle on a person on PS4 named Junebuggy who people say cheats. He's a good players and out of 100 light attacks I hit him 11 times. The tooltip says 20% but when it was tested it was lower. I needed to hit him 10000 to get a good test in.

Needless to say dodge roll and shuffle are very strong. Remember good players almost always dodge roll when they are executable and heal. If anything increase the cost of dodge roll and increase the dodge roll spammers cost that's the real problem.

https://youtu.be/5jwlHlO9hgo

Paneross

Minalan wrote: »

Cut shuffle to six seconds already.

Why? Because you need to make a choice whether to go defensive or offensive.

That would be an acceptable nerf. Make the duration the same as all the wards and shields.

Asardes

I aggree to

Paneross wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Cut shuffle to six seconds already.

Why? Because you need to make a choice whether to go defensive or offensive.

That would be an acceptable nerf. Make the duration the same as all the wards and shields.

Annulment, which is the LA skill, last for 6s as well. So reducing the duration of shuffle to that will make it more consistent, forcing people to cast it more intelligently.

Paneross

Asardes wrote: »

I aggree to

Paneross wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Cut shuffle to six seconds already.

Why? Because you need to make a choice whether to go defensive or offensive.

That would be an acceptable nerf. Make the duration the same as all the wards and shields.

Annulment, which is the LA skill, last for 6s as well. So reducing the duration of shuffle to that will make it more consistent, forcing people to cast it more intelligently.

It would be make players better too, forcing them to adapt how they play and maybe do some offense.

Minalan

Sadly this will be ignored, because any nerf to stam will never ever happen with ZOS developers.

Why is this @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

Paneross

Minalan wrote: »

Sadly this will be ignored, because any nerf to stam will never ever happen with ZOS developers.

Why is this @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

This is a very sad reality.

Edziu

Minalan wrote: »

If hasn't been nerfed because the devs playing use it extensively and play exclusively stamina builds.

oh damn, I rmember that words while MDK was to op since start game until this nerf, while 1 dk was able to tank and wipe zerg etc.

so we know on which build zeni switched after MDK nerf

Glory

Armitas wrote: »

The combat in this game is beyond the definition of broken.

Holy jesus that "RNG," or is that due to dodge rolls?