Is Stam like playing on Easy Mode?

kaithuzar

Title says it, is playing on a stamina toon in pvp like playing on easy mode of a video game? ie... is the magicka playstyle just overall more difficult.

thankyourat

Yes

Well stam is easy mode compared to magicka but if a player is bad he will be bad on both, and a good player will be good as both

Baconlad

No

I DOOOO BELIEVE that stamina is much better than magick currently, they have are able to spec into full on damage and be just as tanky. But to actually pull off the playstyle? No it is more difficult than magick. I could run you through my magick templar, and wreck face against multiple enemies, and my rotation is very simple. But I had to go through a very long and expensive trial period until my gear was right. For my stamplar build I tried I had all the right gear, great stats, it was just more difficult for me to play to the sane effectiveness as my magick build...so its not easier to play, with practice in sure I could be more effective than my magplar, but its hard to get to the point of some of the pros to stamina gameplay, like many of the guys in my guild, play the stamina version and are AWESOME. I feel like a weak link, I bring some damage and some heals yeah...but they don't NEED me.

EsoRecon

Not Sure

Never played magicka in pvp

Strider_Roshin

No

Magicka is superior in terms of survivability, and resource management. Damage really depends on the class. Overall it's easier to play magicka in this game. The only advantage stamina has (and it's a big one) in PvP is the fact that they have a larger stamina pool which make CCs less punishing for them.

Waffennacht

No

There is no such thing as easy mode against a good player with a good build.

It doesn't matter what you are, if you're not skilled enough in whatever your goal is (tanks, dps, etc) you will die.

I love PvP

Master_Kas

Yes

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka is superior in terms of survivability, and resource management. Damage really depends on the class. Overall it's easier to play magicka in this game. The only advantage stamina has (and it's a big one) in PvP is the fact that they have a larger stamina pool which make CCs less punishing for them.

Lol

SleepyTroll

Yes

Except when you can use RD. It's like the ultimate counter to shuffle/roll dodge spam. Oh and another stamina user using Dawnbreaker or the rare magicka sorc using it.

Stratforge

No

No.

Omgwtfbbq321

No

Dawnbreaker is easy mode****

Take away Dawnbreaker and give them a stamina comet and suddenly they would seem less punishing. Incap is another inconvenience, but at least they might miss that one.

Bow spam "The kill you instantly before your console/pc registers conbat" is lame, but there are ways around that.

Best ways to deal with the onslaught of stamina builds at the moment are channelled attacks or AOEs. I'm a long time magicka sorc thats trying out a mageblade. Very nice to have AOEs that hit people, instead of throwing away heavy attacks and force pulse into the empty space around them.

Because if the laggy servers and inconsistency of ping between users, it's basically impossible to balance instant damage abilities in PVP.

Cronopoly

Yes

In PVP specifically. (Not PVE)
Right now there's no counter to the Percentage of Evade/Dodge a person has "typically" found on Stam toons. Other mechanics have counters that are guaged player vs player:

Physical Resistance - Physical Penetration
Spell Resistance - Spell Penetration
Crit Resistance - Crit Chance
Dodge/Evade - Free Willy, No counter Stam classes are way better suited to avoid damage at any range should they choose to take advantage of this mechanic. It's almost crazy not to.

And then...
Magicka Classes don't have the Stamina pool to really do well in a core combat PVP requirement (Dodge, CC break, Sprint), and if a Magicka player buffs their Stamina resource pool to support these, its at the expense of their Magicka pool and they lose damage and potential shield size which scales on magicka.

Stamina toons can rely on simply just 1 main resource pool and not get bogged down micromanaging resources:
Damage
Dodge
CC break
Sprint
Heal

"Most" Magicka toons typically spec just in 1 main pool supporting their damage and healing abilities, and this leaves them highly free AP in open world PVP.
Damage
Heal
CCbreak- highly limited
Sprint - highly limited
Dodge - highly limited

Valencer

Not Sure

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

Dawnbreaker is easy mode****

Take away Dawnbreaker and give them a stamina comet and suddenly they would seem less punishing. Incap is another inconvenience, but at least they might miss that one.

Very true. Dawnbreaker is really, really strong right now. Would also suggest people wait for the incoming redguard nerf because it really isnt that easy to have great sustain AND damage for us non-redguards.

IMO, magicka templars are really strong right now. Magicka sorcs and DKs are tough to take down in a 1v1 but fall behind in open world scenarios.

Strider_Roshin

No

Valencer wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

Dawnbreaker is easy mode****

Take away Dawnbreaker and give them a stamina comet and suddenly they would seem less punishing. Incap is another inconvenience, but at least they might miss that one.

Very true. Dawnbreaker is really, really strong right now. Would also suggest people wait for the incoming redguard nerf because it really isnt that easy to have great sustain AND damage for us non-redguards.

IMO, magicka templars are really strong right now. Magicka sorcs and DKs are tough to take down in a 1v1 but fall behind in open world scenarios.

Magicka sorcs are still pretty deadly in 1vX despite what you hear from the bad sorcs. Heck it's easy to 1vX with a magblade without cloak.

Omgwtfbbq321

No

Yeah, I still do well with my sorc.

But it's not hard to do well with 501CP, Gold Gear and 2k hours of mostly pvp.

This doesn't mean sorcs are in a good place for the current meta. RNG dodge chance and dodgeRoll are very effective against the standard damaging options of the class.

And if I pass 20 people in cyrodiil, maybe 3 of them won't be rolling around with shuffle on.

SleepyTroll

Yes

Anytime I see a smoky looking character(stamina) I know exactly what is going ton happen: bow light/heavy poison injection critical rush dawnbreaker/ wrecking blow heavy atack executioner bash. If it's a NB they fear before the dawnbreaker/incapable. I don't think I have ever seen any do anything different. (Not talking about shield users or hard core tanks obviously.)

Lava_Croft

Yes

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka is superior in terms of survivability, and resource management. Damage really depends on the class. Overall it's easier to play magicka in this game. The only advantage stamina has (and it's a big one) in PvP is the fact that they have a larger stamina pool which make CCs less punishing for them.

Both are nonsense. Dodge roll and Shuffle beat shields, Vigor and Rally beat every self-heal except Breath of Life. Unchained beats any kind of resource management advantage Magicka builds might have.

And CC? Yay CC.

Junkogen

Yes

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka is superior in terms of survivability, and resource management. Damage really depends on the class. Overall it's easier to play magicka in this game. The only advantage stamina has (and it's a big one) in PvP is the fact that they have a larger stamina pool which make CCs less punishing for them.

Both are nonsense. Dodge roll and Shuffle beat shields, Vigor and Rally beat every self-heal except Breath of Life. Unchained beats any kind of resource management advantage Magicka builds might have.

And CC? Yay CC.

Let's not forget that vigor is not attached to any weapon, whereas any magicka healing requires equipping a resto staff. Therefore, Stam builds can run sword and board, bow, dual wield...whatever. Magicka is gimped in this regard. Also, there are no melee magicka weapons. The dual swords return stam and don't scale off magicka. Sure you can run a destro staff, but forget about weaving light attacks, which can all be reflected. It would be nice if they introduced something like bound weapons that would scale off of magicka.

Lava_Croft

Yes

Junkogen wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka is superior in terms of survivability, and resource management. Damage really depends on the class. Overall it's easier to play magicka in this game. The only advantage stamina has (and it's a big one) in PvP is the fact that they have a larger stamina pool which make CCs less punishing for them.

Both are nonsense. Dodge roll and Shuffle beat shields, Vigor and Rally beat every self-heal except Breath of Life. Unchained beats any kind of resource management advantage Magicka builds might have.

And CC? Yay CC.

Let's not forget that vigor is not attached to any weapon, whereas any magicka healing requires equipping a resto staff. Therefore, Stam builds can run sword and board, bow, dual wield...whatever. Magicka is gimped in this regard. Also, there are no melee magicka weapons. The dual swords return stam and don't scale off magicka. Sure you can run a destro staff, but forget about weaving light attacks, which can all be reflected. It would be nice if they introduced something like bound weapons that would scale off of magicka.

Half my deaths are still due to trying to weapon swap for a Healing Ward.

Junkogen

Yes

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka is superior in terms of survivability, and resource management. Damage really depends on the class. Overall it's easier to play magicka in this game. The only advantage stamina has (and it's a big one) in PvP is the fact that they have a larger stamina pool which make CCs less punishing for them.

Have you fought a stamdk or stamplar with their stacking of major vitality, major mending, and malubeth with vigor and rally? Good luck as a magicka build (except magplar). Plus, medium armor offers more protection than light armor.

They need to increase the spell pentration on light armor or something to compensate for the extra squishy factor. The way things are now, light armor wearers might as well be running around naked. Light armor needs to deliver much more damage compared to medium and heavy.

"Something's gotta be done! We can't go on like this!"

raasdal

No

It seems to me, most people forget what this vote is about. It is, when i read it at least, about which playstyle is more difficult. This quickly turns into people debating what is more OP, .

In my mind, there is no question about this at all;

Magicka is by far the easiest playstyle, and always has been. It is easy to understanding, and involves very simple mechanics. You either spam shields, heals og cloaks.

Stamina is by FAR a more difficult playstyle. You dont have access to burst heals, you need to dodge-roll alot, and generally you need to AVOID taking damage, instead of countering with spamming the aforementioned heals, shields og cloaks.

If you are seriously thinking that the playstyle of Magicka is more difficult to learn and "master", compared to Stamina, i dont know what game you are playing... It is not this one...

Edit: Now with Vote

raasdal

No

Vote

Methariorn

Yes

Shuffle-Dodge Rolle-Vigor-Crit Rush/Reverse slice...all with animation canceling. Add a better way to build your setup with good wepon damage without gimping your sustain...very well belanced atm yes...

CapuchinSeven

Yes

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Magicka is superior in terms of survivability, and resource management. Damage really depends on the class. Overall it's easier to play magicka in this game. The only advantage stamina has (and it's a big one) in PvP is the fact that they have a larger stamina pool which make CCs less punishing for them.

Both are nonsense. Dodge roll and Shuffle beat shields, Vigor and Rally beat every self-heal except Breath of Life. Unchained beats any kind of resource management advantage Magicka builds might have.

And CC? Yay CC.

Let's not forget that vigor is not attached to any weapon, whereas any magicka healing requires equipping a resto staff. Therefore, Stam builds can run sword and board, bow, dual wield...whatever. Magicka is gimped in this regard. Also, there are no melee magicka weapons. The dual swords return stam and don't scale off magicka. Sure you can run a destro staff, but forget about weaving light attacks, which can all be reflected. It would be nice if they introduced something like bound weapons that would scale off of magicka.

Half my deaths are still due to trying to weapon swap for a Healing Ward.

This +100.

Game still has an awful weapon swap mechanic.

CapuchinSeven

Yes

raasdal wrote: »

It seems to me, most people forget what this vote is about. It is, when i read it at least, about which playstyle is more difficult. This quickly turns into people debating what is more OP, .

In my mind, there is no question about this at all;

Magicka is by far the easiest playstyle, and always has been. It is easy to understanding, and involves very simple mechanics. You either spam shields, heals og cloaks.

Stamina is by FAR a more difficult playstyle. You dont have access to burst heals, you need to dodge-roll alot, and generally you need to AVOID taking damage, instead of countering with spamming the aforementioned heals, shields og cloaks.

If you are seriously thinking that the playstyle of Magicka is more difficult to learn and "master", compared to Stamina, i dont know what game you are playing... It is not this one...

Edit: Now with Vote

I fail to see what's hard about spamming critical rush, wrecking blow, heavy attack, executioner.

I swapped to some 140 level cheap stamina gear a few weeks back and couldn't stop laughing compared to my 160 level yellow magikca gear/build.

It just felt easy, cheap and gimmicky to be frank about it.

KisoValley

No

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

It seems to me, most people forget what this vote is about. It is, when i read it at least, about which playstyle is more difficult. This quickly turns into people debating what is more OP, .

In my mind, there is no question about this at all;

Magicka is by far the easiest playstyle, and always has been. It is easy to understanding, and involves very simple mechanics. You either spam shields, heals og cloaks.

Stamina is by FAR a more difficult playstyle. You dont have access to burst heals, you need to dodge-roll alot, and generally you need to AVOID taking damage, instead of countering with spamming the aforementioned heals, shields og cloaks.

If you are seriously thinking that the playstyle of Magicka is more difficult to learn and "master", compared to Stamina, i dont know what game you are playing... It is not this one...

Edit: Now with Vote

I fail to see what's hard about spamming critical rush, wrecking blow, heavy attack, executioner.

I swapped to some 140 level cheap stamina gear a few weeks back and couldn't stop laughing compared to my 160 level yellow magikca gear/build.

It just felt easy, cheap and gimmicky to be frank about it.

And what about the stam builds who don't run WB? I see very few WB spammers personally. And I run my 2h as my buff bar, s+b as my main bar which is what I see most stam builds run these days (NBs I see more dual wielders than 2h now lol).

Executioner is nothing compared to RD/Mages Wrath as well.

Vaoh

Yes

Let's break it down...right now, only the players in denial feel that Staminais in a bad spot compared to Magicka, which is really strange and kind of sad. -_-

Is it Easy Mode? No, not really. If you aren't a capable or strong player, you will suck just as much no matter what. In general it used to be more risky running Stamina. This has utterly changed in PvP.

Nowadays Stamina is very powerful, especially in a 1vX scenario if you know what you are doing. It trumps Magicka by a good margin too (hence, the current shift to a Stamina meta). The reasons for this are simple:

• Resolving Vigor is extremely powerful and low cost
- Big benefits from Major Mending

• Rally is extremely powerful with a burst heal
- Big benefits from Major Mending

• CC Break/Dodge roll cost increase.
- Magicka builds are no longer capable of dodge rolling more than one time or they will not have Stamina to CC break. If you don't have Tri-Food, then even one dodge roll is dangerous on most builds.
- Stamina gets so much reduction to roll dodge cost/CC costs the increase is negligible for the first 2 roll dodges. It is massive in this game.

• Dawnbreaker has switched to Stamina. Remember that it was always easier to stack damage on Stamina because of passives? Well, this is a beast of an Ultimate. Even some Magicka builds use it despite the damage no longer scaling for them. For Stamina. Dawnbreaker of Smiting is the king of Ultimates in PvP, with superior cost, a hard-hitting AoE CC, and massive damage burst with a secondary massive DoT.

• Shuffle is arguably the most powerful skill in game because is provides both dodge chance and snare immunity
- Snare/immobilization immunity is the best buff imagineable in 1vX, allowing you to maneuver with your Medium Armor buffed speed with ease. If on Stamplar (current strongest 1vX spec) you can also purify. When used correctly, you cannot get caught.

• Unchained allows you to cast Stamina skills for almost free after a CC break (so free Shuffle+Rally+other skill)

There are many other things, but the flexibility is what makes Stamina so strong. Magicka Templar is almost the only Magicka class you see around nowadays and that's mostly because of Malubeth, Reactive Armor, and some powerful healing+synergies that need to get checked.

twistedmonk

Yes

Doncellius wrote: »

There are many other things, but the flexibility is what makes Stamina so strong. Magicka Templar is almost the only Magicka class you see around nowadays and that's mostly because of Malubeth, Reactive Armor, and some powerful healing+synergies that need to get checked.

I agree with all that you said in your original post. Awesome post and sums up everything really well.

But consider if they nerf the sets or templar synergies that make magic templars viable, then we are down to just a couple of stamina builds only.

Sandman929

Yes

The stam build only players will leap to the defense here, but yes, my stam characters are much easier. Better damage, more sustain, more survivability.
PvP is awash with the sound of bows being fired.

Sandman929

Yes

All the "my playstyle isn't easier, it's more complicated and I'm just awesome" posts are hilarious.

Sandman929

Yes

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

It seems to me, most people forget what this vote is about. It is, when i read it at least, about which playstyle is more difficult. This quickly turns into people debating what is more OP, .

In my mind, there is no question about this at all;

Magicka is by far the easiest playstyle, and always has been. It is easy to understanding, and involves very simple mechanics. You either spam shields, heals og cloaks.

Stamina is by FAR a more difficult playstyle. You dont have access to burst heals, you need to dodge-roll alot, and generally you need to AVOID taking damage, instead of countering with spamming the aforementioned heals, shields og cloaks.

If you are seriously thinking that the playstyle of Magicka is more difficult to learn and "master", compared to Stamina, i dont know what game you are playing... It is not this one...

Edit: Now with Vote

I fail to see what's hard about spamming critical rush, wrecking blow, heavy attack, executioner.

I swapped to some 140 level cheap stamina gear a few weeks back and couldn't stop laughing compared to my 160 level yellow magikca gear/build.

It just felt easy, cheap and gimmicky to be frank about it.

No no no, there's so much more to it! Really! Sure, that's all you see happening, and maybe it always looks like every stamina build is doing the same thing and there's very little thought to it. But there's so much going on...it's very complicated and the other players are just fantastic. ;p

Aedaryl

Yes

Doncellius wrote: »

Let's break it down...right now, only the players in denial feel that Staminais in a bad spot compared to Magicka, which is really strange and kind of sad. -_-

Is it Easy Mode? No, not really. If you aren't a capable or strong player, you will suck just as much no matter what. In general it used to be more risky running Stamina. This has utterly changed in PvP.

Nowadays Stamina is very powerful, especially in a 1vX scenario if you know what you are doing. It trumps Magicka by a good margin too (hence, the current shift to a Stamina meta). The reasons for this are simple:

• Resolving Vigor is extremely powerful and low cost
- Big benefits from Major Mending

• Rally is extremely powerful with a burst heal
- Big benefits from Major Mending

• CC Break/Dodge roll cost increase.
- Magicka builds are no longer capable of dodge rolling more than one time or they will not have Stamina to CC break. If you don't have Tri-Food, then even one dodge roll is dangerous on most builds.
- Stamina gets so much reduction to roll dodge cost/CC costs the increase is negligible for the first 2 roll dodges. It is massive in this game.

• Dawnbreaker has switched to Stamina. Remember that it was always easier to stack damage on Stamina because of passives? Well, this is a beast of an Ultimate. Even some Magicka builds use it despite the damage no longer scaling for them. For Stamina. Dawnbreaker of Smiting is the king of Ultimates in PvP, with superior cost, a hard-hitting AoE CC, and massive damage burst with a secondary massive DoT.

• Shuffle is arguably the most powerful skill in game because is provides both dodge chance and snare immunity
- Snare/immobilization immunity is the best buff imagineable in 1vX, allowing you to maneuver with your Medium Armor buffed speed with ease. If on Stamplar (current strongest 1vX spec) you can also purify. When used correctly, you cannot get caught.

• Unchained allows you to cast Stamina skills for almost free after a CC break (so free Shuffle+Rally+other skill)

There are many other things, but the flexibility is what makes Stamina so strong. Magicka Templar is almost the only Magicka class you see around nowadays and that's mostly because of Malubeth, Reactive Armor, and some powerful healing+synergies that need to get checked.

THIS