There are just to many stuns, cc, knock downs in this game.

KenaPKK

Isn't it 6?

Are you magicka? We have waaaay too much stam sustain, even magicka players, for a cc immunity buff, especially with the length of immov pots. Cc chains to drain stam is supposed to be a key strategy to kill players, and it is already nearly impossible if they build and play properly.

Xeven

It could be 6 idk. You know I'm magicka, and yes I agree with the sustain. I don't necessarily think that mechanics should require someone to run out of resources for fights to end. IMO cc should be more of timed strategic burst, and that's how fights should be won. Currently its just spam your favorite CC every 5 seconds and that's not really interesting or dynamic.

I actually dislike that my main damage ability (frags) cc's my opponent because they are in constant immunity and I find myself holding onto frags and ult waiting for it to drop for that omgwtf just happened combo kill.

KenaPKK

Why should a combo be able to kill within the time it takes to cc break? With how easy sorc and nightblade combos are to apply and how easy it is to apply ccs, that sounds less dynamic, easier, and more op. >.< The give and take of trading ccs every 6s in a struggle to burn each other's stam while trying to preserve your own is how the game's resource gated combat system was designed to work.

sluice

There is nothing wrong with Hard CC in this game... You have immunity for 6 seconds, aight?
Snares and roots(especially roots) on the other hand...

Xeven

KenaPKK wrote: »

Why should a combo be able to kill within the time it takes to cc break? With how easy sorc and nightblade combos are to apply and how easy it is to apply ccs, that sounds less dynamic, easier, and more op. >.< The give and take of trading ccs every 6s in a struggle to burn each other's stam while trying to preserve your own is how the game's resource gated combat system was designed to work.

The current design, intended or not, is a flip flop of what you just said. You can't run a good player out of resources, and the only way to kill a good player is to burst them down with a carefully timed omgwtf combo.

Sustained dps/cc is far easier than setting up that perfectly timed, buffed up combo. Sorc and NB combos are easy? So is everyone else's. The game is not particularly hard for people like you and I, or the people we fight.

KenaPKK

@Xeven so then why buff cc immunity if you acknowledge that we have too much sustain? If anything, break free cost should rise, cc immunity duration should decrease, or stamina sustain should be cut.

sluice

@Xeven, @KenaPKK

Making it harder to sustain ressources, will be pushing the gap between great and bad players, even more.
(Not good...)

Rikumaru

sluice wrote: »

@Xeven, @KenaPKK

Making it harder to sustain ressources, will be pushing the gap between great and bad players, even more.
(Not good...)

The gap has been shrunk from mechanics like poison stacking, mobility changes and nerfs and the addition of a million snares. I rarely see active solo players in cyrodill anymore compared to 1.6 and 1.7 due to changes like these. The gap between bad and good players needs to be increased if anything.

Xeven

I don't pretend to know what the answer is. I can understand why many believe that resources are to blame. Somehow I feel like winning because your opponent couldnt break free is cheesy. I want to win because I outplayed him, or caught him with his pants down. Likewise I want to lose that way, not because I ran out of stamina.

I also understand that part of the battle is resource management. You can't dodge roll too much, or spam costly abilities, or you'll run out of resources. You shouldnt be able to go full offensive mode indefinitely. Your resources should suffer for it. If your onslaught fails to kill your opponent you should be forced onto the back foot with heavy attacks and defensive play.

Unfortunately I don't see ZOS ever balancing such a delicate system like that.

altemriel

bardx86 wrote: »

It annoying.

learn to play

bardx86

altemriel wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

It annoying.

learn to play

Oh my god that was super constructive.

bardx86

Xeven wrote: »

I don't pretend to know what the answer is. I can understand why many believe that resources are to blame. Somehow I feel like winning because your opponent couldnt break free is cheesy. I want to win because I outplayed him, or caught him with his pants down. Likewise I want to lose that way, not because I ran out of stamina.

I also understand that part of the battle is resource management. You can't dodge roll too much, or spam costly abilities, or you'll run out of resources. You shouldnt be able to go full offensive mode indefinitely. Your resources should suffer for it. If your onslaught fails to kill your opponent you should be forced onto the back foot with heavy attacks and defensive play.

Unfortunately I don't see ZOS ever balancing such a delicate system like that.

Agreed. Also as one of the OP said losing a fight to running out of resources is super lame especially when stam user have an innate advantage. Personally i believe if you are CC with a magic spell it should us magic to break and vice versa.

I'm not sure most posting even understand how this game works or really how it doesn't work correct.
1. Having to break free multiple time in a row (like 3 times )within like a 3 sec window. This happens quite a lot and drain stamina to zero.
2. Break free is not consistent. I can press break free in less than .5 sec. Sometime its instant sometime I'm on the grown and have to get up which take way to long.
3. Getting stunned by multi-able char at once. Can't get any ability off. Sure numbers should have the advantage but at least make not instant death, lets have a little fun with the battle.
4. Gap closers hidden snare ignore any CC immunity.
5. Some skills require to break free twice using twice the stamina.

It seems like every class about have the skills have some for of cc. Its to much, it should be a tacitly move that does no damage or very little at least. Im a sorc i don't believe frags needs a stun and that skill is very situational. Dizzying swing should definitely not have a stun as it spamable damage skill.

bardx86

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Xeven so then why buff cc immunity if you acknowledge that we have too much sustain? If anything, break free cost should rise, cc immunity duration should decrease, or stamina sustain should be cut.

This is a hard balance. This will just give Stam class more advantage unless we change or give magic class some way midigate the CC's closer to what stam users can do.

Waffennacht

Imo out playing an opponent involves draining resources (recognition of such along with recognition when it's not gonna happen) it also involves a wtfomg combo, it also involves 1 button spam.

No matter how you change the game, skill is always involved and will always be needed (even if the skill is whom can hit x faster)

KenaPKK

@bardx86 breaking fee costs a percentage of max stamina. Also, stam users expend stam to cast abilities, and they are more reliant on roll dodge, which costs stam. If you are having problems with stamina as a magicka class, then you are either built poorly or overusing stam in rolls or blocking.

bardx86

KenaPKK wrote: »

@bardx86 breaking fee costs a percentage of max stamina. Also, stam users expend stam to cast abilities, and they are more reliant on roll dodge, which costs stam. If you are having problems with stamina as a magicka class, then you are either built poorly or overusing stam in rolls or blocking.

Dont dodge role and never block. I run out of stamina as the break free mechanic is busted.

KenaPKK

@bardx86 can you make a recording of what you're experiencing that looks busted? I've not had an issue with break free other than it not working sometimes -- and that doesn't drain stam. I play predominantly magicka and have next to no issues managing my stamina.

CatchMeTrolling

its best not to discuss this with people who play in big groups , how cold they know how broken cc is in this game if they're never getting zerged down. Play solo & you'll see just how broken cc is and im not talking about zerg surfing, I'm talking trying to fight several people by yourself.

Especially magicka based.

bardx86

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

its best not to discuss this with people who play in big groups , how cold they know how broken cc is in this game if they're never getting zerged down. Play solo & you'll see just how broken cc is and im not talking about zerg surfing, I'm talking trying to fight several people by yourself.

Especially magicka based.

exactly

KenaPKK

Except that I play solo versus several other people as a magicka class like 75% of my time in PvP, and I lead small groups against big groups the other 25%. I have not noticed cc break draining excess stam ever. Sometimes a fear gets sticky or a dizzying swing floppy fishes me, but that is the opposite problem.

CatchMeTrolling

I'm sure you missed the point if you think this is about cc draining a large amount of stam. You're just not convincing me you're fighting 10 people without getting your stam burned , even more so now that there's poison in the game and way more stam classes.

Jsmalls

The only CC that needs to be looked at is fear. The responsiveness for CC breaking that ability is absolutely broken, if you even realize you are being feared (can't count how many times I'm strafing in the direction fear is running me and I'm under the impression I was still in control of my character). But it takes the time it takes for your character to break the CC then an extra second until your abilities start working. Most other CCs don't have this problem, CC breaking dizzying swing is more responsive even coupled with its knockback.

Well and those extremely long CC's. It's ashame that if I have to block multiple meteors I then get hit by dizzying swing and have to lie on my back for the next 4 seconds + and die.

MalakithAlamahdi

Alright, today i got knocktback and stunned 4 times in a row, without it breaking on full stamina, getting no CC immunity, i couldnt even get up. Uppercut spam made me fly with every hit. Also, Immovability potions are broken. Oftenly i use one and still get stunnend or knockback a second later, same with immovable from the heavy armor skilline. The game mechanics are quite good, but this game is so broken that you simply can't enjoy it a lot of the time.

thankyourat

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Alright, today i got knocktback and stunned 4 times in a row, without it breaking on full stamina, getting no CC immunity, i couldnt even get up. Uppercut spam made me fly with every hit. Also, Immovability potions are broken. Oftenly i use one and still get stunnend or knockback a second later, same with immovable from the heavy armor skilline. The game mechanics are quite good, but this game is so broken that you simply can't enjoy it a lot of the time.

Yea dizzying swing is the worse cc in the game in terms of you not being able to cc break it's just so unresponsive not only that it will hit you from across the map so much for that 7m range

twistedmonk

These problems have plagued the game since launch. Doesn't seem like they are capable of fixing the problems.

CC break rarely is responsive. My expectation is that if I hit the CC break, I should at most only have one global cooldown of non-responsiveness - which I think is 1.5 seconds?

Many times I get stuck in animation - so the CC ends up being 3-4 seconds while my character does a bunch of crap animations (fear = running away + crying (4 secs) or stun = flailing my arms to the heavens ~3 secs). before I'm able to do anything (this is with 90fps + 87 ping to server). It seems that the animations play out entirely and cant' be canceled. Or there is some trick. Breaking fear seems to take longer than stuns, but both are way too long. There shouldn't be any animations at all, just add the little white swirly at your feet and get rid of the character animations - its not working. has not worked for 2.5 years.

I bind cc break to my side mouse button (MB4) Maybe I should rebind it from mouse button to keyboard? Is the mouse buttons not as responsive? I don't know, what do you guys use? This happens in PvE as well, not just PvP. So its just plain broke for me.

Any CC that throws your character in the air is another automatic 3-4 seconds of character animations - no matter how fast you press the CC break button. Immediately cancel the character animations as soon as the cc break button is clicked.

Maybe the devs dont see this because they have great machines/video cards? I don't know. my PC isn't horrible. its like 2 years old.

Honestly, I think if they just got rid of all the character animations associated with CC - get rid of being thrown in the air, the fear animations (especially the worst and people have said so for 2+ years), and the stun animation. Get rid of the character animation and just replace it with a simple visual that doesn't take up as much video resources or something. Even just the sound is enough to know when to CC break, you don't need the animations at all. That's just fluff and makes all CC take 4 seconds on average - no matter if you break it or not.

Izaki

Waffennacht wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Immovability potions may be something you should invest in.

used them they don't last long enough to be of any help. they also don't help with gap closers

Then i recommend something only few could dream of. What if i could bless you with Eternal Life? Your power would be limitless. Turn into a mist and fly away unharmed from those wretched gap closers and cc's.

brandonv516 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Immovability potions may be something you should invest in.

used them they don't last long enough to be of any help. they also don't help with gap closers

Then i recommend something only few could dream of. What if i could bless you with Eternal Life? Your power would be limitless. Turn into a mist and fly away unharmed from those wretched gap closers and cc's.

Stay away brother this one's mine.

Awesome, love these comments...

Too bad they're a bunch of blood suckers!

Btw... as a vampire and soul shriven what does mean for your soul?

I don't know aye... Even if there was a soul its kinda [snip] up

Izaki

Hammy01 wrote: »

What we need is better and longer CC immunity especially for magicka classes as we don't have the stamina pool / regen to keep blocking/dodge rolling/break free.

I always run with imovable pots but even they are not always reliable... I have been knocked down with dizzing swing and while on the ground spam my imovable pot, have it go off as i get up and then get knocked right back down.... leading to my death .


Hammy!!

You gotta break free before you can drink a pot. Hard CC does not allow for any use of anything, not even potions. I'm pretty sure if you don't break free of a CC you don't get any sort of immunity so you can get CC'd straight away., your pot must have gone off as you were being knocked down again..!

Izaki

bardx86 wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I don't pretend to know what the answer is. I can understand why many believe that resources are to blame. Somehow I feel like winning because your opponent couldnt break free is cheesy. I want to win because I outplayed him, or caught him with his pants down. Likewise I want to lose that way, not because I ran out of stamina.

I also understand that part of the battle is resource management. You can't dodge roll too much, or spam costly abilities, or you'll run out of resources. You shouldnt be able to go full offensive mode indefinitely. Your resources should suffer for it. If your onslaught fails to kill your opponent you should be forced onto the back foot with heavy attacks and defensive play.

Unfortunately I don't see ZOS ever balancing such a delicate system like that.

Agreed. Also as one of the OP said losing a fight to running out of resources is super lame especially when stam user have an innate advantage. Personally i believe if you are CC with a magic spell it should us magic to break and vice versa.

I'm not sure most posting even understand how this game works or really how it doesn't work correct.
1. Having to break free multiple time in a row (like 3 times )within like a 3 sec window. This happens quite a lot and drain stamina to zero.
2. Break free is not consistent. I can press break free in less than .5 sec. Sometime its instant sometime I'm on the grown and have to get up which take way to long.
3. Getting stunned by multi-able char at once. Can't get any ability off. Sure numbers should have the advantage but at least make not instant death, lets have a little fun with the battle.
4. Gap closers hidden snare ignore any CC immunity.
5. Some skills require to break free twice using twice the stamina.

It seems like every class about have the skills have some for of cc. Its to much, it should be a tacitly move that does no damage or very little at least. Im a sorc i don't believe frags needs a stun and that skill is very situational. Dizzying swing should definitely not have a stun as it spamable damage skill.

I agree for the DS spam thing. Yeah that's really too cheesy and too easy for anyone.

twistedmonk

barrage spam is the cheesiest I think. It's just a root, and aoe root no less that you can just spam over and over.

probably (likely definitely) wont work in trueflame, but you can single handledly stop zergs in blackwater.

NBrookus

twistedmonk wrote: »

I bind cc break to my side mouse button (MB4) Maybe I should rebind it from mouse button to keyboard? Is the mouse buttons not as responsive? I don't know, what do you guys use? This happens in PvE as well, not just PvP. So its just plain broke for me.

I have CC break bound to a key on my keyboard and it is more responsive, but doesn't eliminate those unbreakable cc's that happen. It's not just Fear, although that seems to be to the most broken one. I've had Defensive Rune and Fossilize both be unbreakable when cast on me, and also have had them bug out when I've cast them on people and they can't cc break.