Nightblades fear

Sandman929

Fear sucks, but I wouldn't want it nerfed. I wouldn't mind if the break free worked though.

RadioheadSh0t

Zheg wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU
End of discussion, thanks Jules!

Since you're spamming that video in every thread, let's make sure and quote her a few pages into that thread where she's cornered and admits the video was pure garbage. Think of it as your disclaimer ... "I'm going to post a bogus and debunked video, but I crave the attention so please flame me afterwards."

If you can point to even one other post where I've linked that video, then all delete my forum acct. No? Then let's move on.

If you don't think RD's damage is scaled higher than all other Executes, please hook me up with whatever you're smoking. I tell you what, YOU post a video where you compare the output of RD vs the other executes, then we'll talk.

RD is the lowest skill ability in the game, just sit outside charge range and press one button. Every group is full of no skill Templars just sitting back and multi-beaming people down, it's pathetic. It's incredibly ironic that the same people calling fear an "I win" button are defending RD. You lose all credibility with statements like that.

Barlthump

Lord_Hev wrote: »

So let's review:

Mass Hysteria - Hard 5 second CC. It is instant cast. It is an AoE centered on the caster and does not require a target to be selected. It applies a snare regardless if you let the CC run it's course, or CC break. It applies minor maim, reducing the damage the victim(s) do.


Wow, what a convenient CC.


I was going to write an in-depth analysis and comparison of Mass Hysteria to every other class CCs in the game, but then I realized I really cant be bothered to give a **** and I will end up having a biased opinion anyway since I hate NBs.



So all I'm going to say here, is this... What is the point of the trap morph? Aspect of Terror I think it is called. I want every NB here defending mass hysteria, to ask yourself that question.... What is the point of Aspect of Terror? I want you all to compare Mass Hysteria to Aspect of Terror. Maybe... all the perks of Mass Hysteria should be restricted to Aspect of Terror... and Mass Hysteria itself then needs to be balanced/revamped appropriately.... Remember now, we are talking about a current CC that lasts 5 seconds, instant cast, AoE, unblockable, undodgeble, maims, and snares multiple people... Should -that- continue to be Instant cast? Or would it be more logical and balanced to tie all that to a trap morph that requires clever and creative usage?


JUST SAYING

Do you know the problem with aspect of terror? It's wide open for everyone to see, plus as a nightblade you are always ambushing into your enemy, it's the same reason why no one uses the other morph of crystal frags. It's a matter of convenience. If the trap was invisible for aspect of terror, hell I would use the *** out of it. Imagine your enemies trying to take a keep and rushing to back flag and all getting CC-ed there and running into your second traplace which goes off at the point of origin.

Drdeath20

KenaPKK wrote: »

Is this thread still a thing?

*skims over comments*

Oh dear...

Look dude, if you're so militant about nerfing fear, then at least buff Agony so that our other class cc is a viable option instead of utter garbage.

Although I expect that fear wouldn't bother you in the first place if cc breaking functioned properly.

Also keep in mind that fear balances against permablocking. It's a crucial link in the food chain and is considered balanced by knowledgeable players. If you intend to recommend nerfs, be sure to accompany them with comparable compensatory buffs.

Cheers.

Yeah for sure. I don't want it nerfed to the ground. It has it uses in battle. I just hate it when 2 sap tanks guard each other and cheese up a resource tower. You almost kill them but they have the trump card with mass hysteria.

Drdeath20

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU
End of discussion, thanks Jules!

Since you're spamming that video in every thread, let's make sure and quote her a few pages into that thread where she's cornered and admits the video was pure garbage. Think of it as your disclaimer ... "I'm going to post a bogus and debunked video, but I crave the attention so please flame me afterwards."

If you can point to even one other post where I've linked that video, then all delete my forum acct. No? Then let's move on.

If you don't think RD's damage is scaled higher than all other Executes, please hook me up with whatever you're smoking. I tell you what, YOU post a video where you compare the output of RD vs the other executes, then we'll talk.

RD is the lowest skill ability in the game, just sit outside charge range and press one button. Every group is full of no skill Templars just sitting back and multi-beaming people down, it's pathetic. It's incredibly ironic that the same people calling fear an "I win" button are defending RD. You lose all credibility with statements like that.

It's the templar class in general that needs to be reworked. I wish this game was more of a skill based game but it really just is a beer and pretzel kinda game. I wish you had to aim.

RadioheadSh0t

Drdeath20 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU
End of discussion, thanks Jules!

Since you're spamming that video in every thread, let's make sure and quote her a few pages into that thread where she's cornered and admits the video was pure garbage. Think of it as your disclaimer ... "I'm going to post a bogus and debunked video, but I crave the attention so please flame me afterwards."

If you can point to even one other post where I've linked that video, then all delete my forum acct. No? Then let's move on.

If you don't think RD's damage is scaled higher than all other Executes, please hook me up with whatever you're smoking. I tell you what, YOU post a video where you compare the output of RD vs the other executes, then we'll talk.

RD is the lowest skill ability in the game, just sit outside charge range and press one button. Every group is full of no skill Templars just sitting back and multi-beaming people down, it's pathetic. It's incredibly ironic that the same people calling fear an "I win" button are defending RD. You lose all credibility with statements like that.

It's the templar class in general that needs to be reworked. I wish this game was more of a skill based game but it really just is a beer and pretzel kinda game. I wish you had to aim.

Templar, both Stam and Mag, are the most popular rerolls at the moment for a reason. I think the class is in a good place, outside of RD. It's just far too over scaled.

I'd be fine with some corresponding buffs along with a nerf to RD, though, which would raise the skill needed to play Templar to what other classes have to do but still keep them effective. You're complaining about Fear, but fear does no damage, and any NB needs to whittle down your Stam before really utilizing fear.

An execute should be exactly that, not a source of constant DPS like Templars can with RD. High DPS + Scales starting at 50% is just absurd. Basically, when 1vXing you have to disengage when there's one or more beamplars on you. And even when you engage those Templars, all it takes is one button and *poof*, full health. The irony is that only Templars have the burst heals to sustain RD.

Lucky28

KenaPKK wrote: »

Is this thread still a thing?

*skims over comments*

Oh dear...

Look dude, if you're so militant about nerfing fear, then at least buff Agony so that our other class cc is a viable option instead of utter garbage.

Although I expect that fear wouldn't bother you in the first place if cc breaking functioned properly.

Also keep in mind that fear balances against permablocking. It's a crucial link in the food chain and is considered balanced by knowledgeable players. If you intend to recommend nerfs, be sure to accompany them with comparable compensatory buffs.

Cheers.

and also templar healers.

zZzleepyhead

Yes - fear is very good. I see where you're coming from op, it's an easy ability that offers a lot of control Fear is the reason I switched to NB, but I don't think it needs to be changed. The only problem with the ability is the inconsistency it has when you're trying to break free. The NB toolkit is god-like. It makes the class really fun to play and it'd be devastating if they bogwashed it. It'd be more fashionable to paint up Sorcerers so they could break free of shields and large bursts. Ickkkk!
Also we should probably refer to the ability name: Aspect of Terror. ESO devs have proven to not be so savy when it comes to action-MMOs. I don't think they'd catch on to the term "fear."

Xvorg

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Stun is not the problem. The animation for Stun is pretty flawless. Stun is single target and stun can be blocked/ dodged. Fear has a 1 second delay from break, effects multiple targets, is unblockable and undodgeable.

multiple =/= 3

Anyway, if you know how to break CC, then there should be no problem.

Xvorg

Drdeath20 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Major Mending doesn't help Stamplars?

Yet every good Stamplar in the game is using that buff...

I think you should spend some time theory crafting your build.

The passive Sacred ground ,Major mending, only occurs when you stand in your rune or your cleansing ritual. That means before I can use rally I have to cast another ability and we all know that if you don't use rally instantly it almost always means death.

The mending passive only works with restoring light skills. Stamplars put skill points in stamina and my champion points in stamina based passives. Breath of life heals are puny for stamplar.

If we get into a duel and are able to keep the fight in our cleansing ritual than our rally is pretty strong but that's a big if.

Before I use fear in a offesive way, I need to use a cloak , otherwise the other guy is going to roll dodge as soon as he sees me (proven is a guy who knows what's playing). And both of them cost a lot of magicka, even in a magicka build.

You wanted the price? Well, the price for a stamblade is 3/4 of his magicka pool (cloak + fear)). Consider that WW, fighter's Guild and undaunted skills do the same fear but through stam.

What, magicka builds using fear? though it is possible, CW does far less dmg that SA and they have a tiny stam pool, so once they have used fear, CC them with whatever you have and profit. A mageblade with no stam is a dead mageblade

sluice

Xvorg wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Major Mending doesn't help Stamplars?

Yet every good Stamplar in the game is using that buff...

I think you should spend some time theory crafting your build.

The passive Sacred ground ,Major mending, only occurs when you stand in your rune or your cleansing ritual. That means before I can use rally I have to cast another ability and we all know that if you don't use rally instantly it almost always means death.

The mending passive only works with restoring light skills. Stamplars put skill points in stamina and my champion points in stamina based passives. Breath of life heals are puny for stamplar.

If we get into a duel and are able to keep the fight in our cleansing ritual than our rally is pretty strong but that's a big if.

Before I use fear in a offesive way, I need to use a cloak , otherwise the other guy is going to roll dodge as soon as he sees me (proven is a guy who knows what's playing). And both of them cost a lot of magicka, even in a magicka build.

You wanted the price? Well, the price for a stamblade is 3/4 of his magicka pool (cloak + fear)). Consider that WW, fighter's Guild and undaunted skills do the same fear but through stam.

What, magicka builds using fear? though it is possible, CW does far less dmg that SA and they have a tiny stam pool, so once they have used fear, CC them with whatever you have and profit. A mageblade with no stam is a dead mageblade

A X with no stam is a dead X.

Xvorg

sluice wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Major Mending doesn't help Stamplars?

Yet every good Stamplar in the game is using that buff...

I think you should spend some time theory crafting your build.

The passive Sacred ground ,Major mending, only occurs when you stand in your rune or your cleansing ritual. That means before I can use rally I have to cast another ability and we all know that if you don't use rally instantly it almost always means death.

The mending passive only works with restoring light skills. Stamplars put skill points in stamina and my champion points in stamina based passives. Breath of life heals are puny for stamplar.

If we get into a duel and are able to keep the fight in our cleansing ritual than our rally is pretty strong but that's a big if.

Before I use fear in a offesive way, I need to use a cloak , otherwise the other guy is going to roll dodge as soon as he sees me (proven is a guy who knows what's playing). And both of them cost a lot of magicka, even in a magicka build.

You wanted the price? Well, the price for a stamblade is 3/4 of his magicka pool (cloak + fear)). Consider that WW, fighter's Guild and undaunted skills do the same fear but through stam.

What, magicka builds using fear? though it is possible, CW does far less dmg that SA and they have a tiny stam pool, so once they have used fear, CC them with whatever you have and profit. A mageblade with no stam is a dead mageblade

A X with no stam is a dead X.

That's right, but trying to take down stam from a stam build is harder than a magicka build. That's even harder for a magebblade, since the only way to recover stam for a NB is to cloak and wait. Sorc can run away while stunning, DKs have helping hands passive and templars have their nice houses...

Lucky28

zZzleepyhead wrote: »

Yes - fear is very good. I see where you're coming from op, it's an easy ability that offers a lot of control Fear is the reason I switched to NB, but I don't think it needs to be changed. The only problem with the ability is the inconsistency it has when you're trying to break free. The NB toolkit is god-like. It makes the class really fun to play and it'd be devastating if they bogwashed it. It'd be more fashionable to paint up Sorcerers so they could break free of shields and large bursts. Ickkkk!
Also we should probably refer to the ability name: Aspect of Terror. ESO devs have proven to not be so savy when it comes to action-MMOs. I don't think they'd catch on to the term "fear."

that's not fear tho. i've been CC by other knock downs and been unable to CC break with full stam. CCed multiple times by the same ability multiple times in row immunity be damned, CCed though an immovability pot.

CC is straight up broken and has been for a while.

KenaPKK

Drdeath20 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Is this thread still a thing?

*skims over comments*

Oh dear...

Look dude, if you're so militant about nerfing fear, then at least buff Agony so that our other class cc is a viable option instead of utter garbage.

Although I expect that fear wouldn't bother you in the first place if cc breaking functioned properly.

Also keep in mind that fear balances against permablocking. It's a crucial link in the food chain and is considered balanced by knowledgeable players. If you intend to recommend nerfs, be sure to accompany them with comparable compensatory buffs.

Cheers.

Yeah for sure. I don't want it nerfed to the ground. It has it uses in battle. I just hate it when 2 sap tanks guard each other and cheese up a resource tower. You almost kill them but they have the trump card with mass hysteria.

Trust me, sap tanks' trump card is not "guarding each other" with fear. Just cc break it. If they had a trump card, it would be Tava's with Bolstering Darkness. Also Malubeth is likely involved right now.

If you're having trouble against a build, come in here asking for advice, not calling for nerfs of iconic and balanced class abilities. To kill a sap tank, heal debuff it. It'll start struggling really quickly the moment Fasalla's or Dark Flare comes into the equation. Wait for it to drop Bolstering, then Negate it or pull it off it. If you don't have a sorc or DK on hand, force the ult then go hard after it expires. Chaining ccs of your own will put a huge strain on the sap tank's stamina as well, so be sure to do that. And ranging sap tanks down helps a ton, as many don't run Lotus Fan. Sap tank bars are too competitive for that mess. If anywhere, it's on their back bar and displacing Mist Form, which is doing you a favor imo.


@Lord_Hev re: Aspect of Terror. It's a godlike skill for niche builds based around ranged combat and kiting, such as bow or staff nightblade. Unfortunately kiting doesn't really exist in this game with a no cooldown combat system on gap closers. Also Aspect was better before they tampered with it in my opinion... The old Aspect was larger and hit more people than MH, but it armed at your feet. I had fun using it and Shade to skirmish with and pick apart zergs some over the winter. MH is just better in this combat system, though, because people will inevitably get on you.

Do enemies see it on the ground now? They used to not be able to.

rfennell_ESO

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Every other fear comes at a price. For instance you either must become undead, only works on undead/daedra, use an ultimate or have an ally synergies an ability. For nightblades this is sadly not the case.

I'm not advocating we remove their class ability but can there at least be a price that comes with using the most op skill in the game.

The problem with mass hysteria is that it either works so good it's probably a bit OP or it doesn't work at all.

I'd be happy if it just worked reliably and was always breakable to when it's either lagged (and your break ends up delayed) or when it just does nothing (that's more often than you think btw).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Hold up!

I can fear on my Vamplar? This can't be right. Can it? Please make me more OP.

Ghost-Shot

I think Nightblade's could use some balance tweaks in general but threads like this only turn a class and its iconic abilities into a shell of its former self, see any Dragon Knight thread from 2014 if you require proof.

KenaPKK

Aspect of Terror would be really good if it created an obstacle for you to play around. Suggestion:

Think of the Praxin boss in Spindleclutch as an inspiration.

~~~~~

Aspect of Terror:
Cast range, indicator, double trap thing unchanged
Cost unchanged
Places traps at your feet and at target location which arm after 3s. They are visible to enemies while arming but invisible after arming. When triggered, each fears up to 3 nearby enemies and remains as a floaty red ghost aspect for 8s. Aspects continue to fear enemies who come within 5m for the duration.

Each aspect also fires aoe attacks at enemies within 7m.

Each aspect also applies a hex to enemies who attack you (the nightblade). Each aspect can hex a maximum of 1 player, and no player can be hexed twice. The hex increases ability costs by 10% until the aspect which cast it dies. Aspects have a health bar and can be killed, but are reasonably durable.

~~~~~

No Minor Maim or snares. Instead, melee range aoe damage and an increase in ability costs with the counterplay that the ghosties are short ranged and can be killed. I imagine them having 2x as much health as an Engine Guardian dwemer, perhaps scaling with the number of enemies in melee range when it triggers -- i.e. bigger when zerged. This would be really good for a ranged nightblade looking to kite enemies into traps. Would be great to LoS around too at the trade off of killing your aspect.

This remains niche but adds a ton of utility useful for the exact opposite play style in which Mass Hysteria excels. Ranged nightblade builds would love this, as well as nightblades looking to use their fear for the escape instead of on the attack.

Aspect of Terror already creates brief floaty red aspect ghosts, and the animations and mechanics for aoe attacks and a hex already exist in the Praxin boss and elsewhere. I think this would be pretty easy to implement.

Numbers and all can be tweaked for balance. Thoughts on the bones of it?

KenaPKK

Also when is floppy fish gonna get fixed?