DK execute...

Forestd16b14_ESO

Sure this been asked about over and over again and lets ask about it again and hopefully it will be changed back or changed all together.

Option 1. Change Molten weapons back to how they were pre-TG.

Option 2. Chane Molten weapons to give a 40% power boost to heavy attacks. Have Igneous weapons give major brute and major sorc to you and allies while also giving you 40% power boost. Have Molten Armanets give you 40% power boost to heavy attacks and up to 150% when fighting enemies below 50%

Option 3. Keep it as it now on live.

Lokey0024

Option 2

If option 2 hits lightning staves would be the new RD. I like the idea but think they could do something better.

Van_0S

Option 3

DK are already, OP!
for magicka, let soul skill line (soul trap) be an excute for all magicka builds.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Option 2

Van_0S wrote: »

DK are already, OP!
for magicka, let soul skill line (soul trap) be an excute for all magicka builds.

I am sorry but please explain how DK are OP ? Cause yes DoTs are good for PvE and DKs shine there but for PvP DoTs aren't exactly the most reliable source of DPS and how is DKs gaining their execute back as 1 morph of a buff spell make them even more OP ?

Lord-Otto

He meant stam DKs are OP.
Nope, having your fully charged heavy attack deal more damage is really useless. mag DKs actually need a proper execution skill.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Option 2

Lord-Otto wrote: »

He meant stam DKs are OP.
Nope, having your fully charged heavy attack deal more damage is really useless. mag DKs actually need a proper execution skill.

Stamina DK aren't event that more powerful either they only have 2 stamina skills and the only passives that help stamina DKs is iron skin which even mag DKs can use along with mountain blessing which again mag DK can use. I just don't see why every one says stamina DKs are OP. How are they OP ? The poison damage ? Cause as I said before DoTs are good for PvE not PvP.

RoamingRiverElk

Magicka DKs need a proper way to sustain themselves while their damage isn't nerfed to the ground. Considerably cheaper blocking cost would be one of the easier ways to do that. The damage shield from Igneous Shield should be stronger as well - about twice as strong as it currently is.

pcar944

make Stone Giant an execute !

DocFrost72

Just saying, if DKs get an execute, I'm totally cool with that.

But it means Sorcs get a spammable, and Templars get a source of major weapon or spell damage

The classes were built to all have something missing, so each felt unique. I'm cool with removing that idea, but if we do it ought to be for all classes in the name of fairness.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Option 2

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Magicka DKs need a proper way to sustain themselves while their damage isn't nerfed to the ground. Considerably cheaper blocking cost would be one of the easier ways to do that. The damage shield from Igneous Shield should be stronger as well - about twice as strong as it currently is.

Saddly ZOS answer to that is the sturdy trait .... Ask any tank.

Lord-Otto

Stone Giant as an execute was my initial idea as well, but it is a projectile, and that is bad. Especially since DKs are supposed to be in close range. That said, if the exe morph would be a melee skill, it'd be perfect.

Stam DKs have Minor Brutality and stam refresh through their passives, on top of the best anti-ranged tool and great synergy with poison. Venomous Claw and Poison injection are very, very good DoTs in PvP. Molten is amazing for ganks or just plain ranged burst. Yeah, stam DKs might not be god mode, but they are certainly a very strong and harmonic build thanks to great synergies.

Magicka DKs do need an execute, as they have barely anything uber going for them. Good AoE DoTs don't make them OP in boss fights. And every other class has an execute, so this isn't an exclusive thing, but more of a necessity for any build.
Sorcs don't need a spammable, destro staves just need a big buff. ZOS in their stubbornness just refuse to admit that in this game, where ranged combat does not exist thanks to gapclosers, the weaker damage output from staves is not justified by melees having to get in close with higher damage.
Temps are supposed to be healers, and they do that very well. Anything else they get from weapons or sets, so no need for built-in buffs other than healing.

Panth141

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Just saying, if DKs get an execute, I'm totally cool with that.

But it means Sorcs get a spammable, and Templars get a source of major weapon or spell damage

The classes were built to all have something missing, so each felt unique. I'm cool with removing that idea, but if we do it ought to be for all classes in the name of fairness.

The problem is that, for all of the points you listed, it is possible for those classes to obtain the 'missing' component outside of their class lines. Sorcs can (and do) use Force Pulse as a spammable, Templars can use Entropy for Major Sorcery - stamina DKs can use 2H Executioner as an execute.

I completely agree in terms of the classes being built to be 'missing' something - but every other magicka or stamina class build can access their 'missing' feature - mDKs can't. Add to this the requirement to stack health to get even mediocre use out of their class defences, you end up with a class putting out much lower burst and unable to use an execute to finish it off - instead relying on ultimate usage. That would be fine, if we still had dynamic ultimate generation... we don't

*Mostly from a PvP standpoint

Lokey0024

Option 2

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Just saying, if DKs get an execute, I'm totally cool with that.

But it means Sorcs get a spammable, and Templars get a source of major weapon or spell damage

The classes were built to all have something missing, so each felt unique. I'm cool with removing that idea, but if we do it ought to be for all classes in the name of fairness.

This is the dumbest logic. Mag dk dont have access to an execute. Sorcs can spam crushing shock, templars can entrophy, dks can......ult? Seems like a crap deal. You would love RD giving you major sorcery and 40% heavy attack dmg instead of a finisher

Forestd16b14_ESO

Option 2

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Stone Giant as an execute was my initial idea as well, but it is a projectile, and that is bad. Especially since DKs are supposed to be in close range. That said, if the exe morph would be a melee skill, it'd be perfect.

Stam DKs have Minor Brutality and stam refresh through their passives, on top of the best anti-ranged tool and great synergy with poison. Venomous Claw and Poison injection are very, very good DoTs in PvP. Molten is amazing for ganks or just plain ranged burst. Yeah, stam DKs might not be god mode, but they are certainly a very strong and harmonic build thanks to great synergies.

Magicka DKs do need an execute, as they have barely anything uber going for them. Good AoE DoTs don't make them OP in boss fights. And every other class has an execute, so this isn't an exclusive thing, but more of a necessity for any build.
Sorcs don't need a spammable, destro staves just need a big buff. ZOS in their stubbornness just refuse to admit that in this game, where ranged combat does not exist thanks to gapclosers, the weaker damage output from staves is not justified by melees having to get in close with higher damage.
Temps are supposed to be healers, and they do that very well. Anything else they get from weapons or sets, so no need for built-in buffs other than healing.

I am sorry otto but Stamina DKs need a execute just as bad cause the so called stamina recovery is only 5% when a DK cast a earthheart spell and stamina DKs don't normally have enough magicka to be using spells let and right and minor brute is jsut that minor another mere 5% and as most know most stamina DKs are tanks their weapon power normally isn't that high to begin with.

As for poison and DoTs yes they are powerful in PvE but just cause it's good in PvE does not mean it's powerful in PvP. Yes DoTs help but any good PvPer can either heal through it or the more smart way is to just remove it via purge or purify synergy and that's only 1v1 when it comes to big groups or zergs DoTs become nearly useless because most DoTs are single target attacks the only actual DoTs I know of that can hit multiple targets are fire breath and its morphs, cleave and its morphs, volatle armor and acid spray.

Yes magical DKs need some help but that doesn't mean stamina DKs are any better.

pcar944

yeah but, sorcs, Templars, nb's all have executes, DK's dont

Anti_Virus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Stone Giant as an execute was my initial idea as well, but it is a projectile, and that is bad. Especially since DKs are supposed to be in close range. That said, if the exe morph would be a melee skill, it'd be perfect.

Stam DKs have Minor Brutality and stam refresh through their passives, on top of the best anti-ranged tool and great synergy with poison. Venomous Claw and Poison injection are very, very good DoTs in PvP. Molten is amazing for ganks or just plain ranged burst. Yeah, stam DKs might not be god mode, but they are certainly a very strong and harmonic build thanks to great synergies.

Magicka DKs do need an execute, as they have barely anything uber going for them. Good AoE DoTs don't make them OP in boss fights. And every other class has an execute, so this isn't an exclusive thing, but more of a necessity for any build.
Sorcs don't need a spammable, destro staves just need a big buff. ZOS in their stubbornness just refuse to admit that in this game, where ranged combat does not exist thanks to gapclosers, the weaker damage output from staves is not justified by melees having to get in close with higher damage.
Temps are supposed to be healers, and they do that very well. Anything else they get from weapons or sets, so no need for built-in buffs other than healing.

This I don't want to derail the thread but archers also suffer because of weak dps skills and gap closer spam.

Bows and staff combat needs to be looked at again because right now zos is biased to melee builds

That being said mDks really need and exceute.

DocFrost72

@Lokey0024 No need to pour salt, was half kidding.

@Panth141 I see the issue now. My response would be; Why not replace a morph of the skill from the mages guild line that restores magicka for health (name eludes me...equilibrium?) with an execute? And none of this BS 20% crap, an actual execute?

That would keep class identity while also helping magDKs finish fights more difinitively.

Also, I don't think Magick DKs' issues in PvP are anything an execute will fix...they are the most underperforming class, barring tanks.

Lokey0024

Option 2

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@Lokey0024 No need to pour salt, was half kidding.

@anth141 I see the issue now. My response would be; Why not replace a morph of the skill from the mages guild line that restores magicka for health (name eludes me...equilibrium?) with an execute? And none of this BS 20% crap, an actual execute?

That would keep class identity while also helping magDKs finish fights more difinitively.

Also, I don't think Magick DKs' issues in PvP are anything an execute will fix...they are the most underperforming class, barring tanks.

Like this idea, but still want a dk specfic execute.

What makes classes unique is the type of skills it uses. There's a basic combat template of buffs/spammable dps/finishers. You can nuance from there but leaving out one of these basic combat necessities doesnt make it unique, it makes them weak.

Just pisses me off because while you're half joking alot of people think that dks are fine without one because stam is strong, but reliant on weapon skill lines.

DocFrost72

Lokey0024 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@Lokey0024 No need to pour salt, was half kidding.

@anth141 I see the issue now. My response would be; Why not replace a morph of the skill from the mages guild line that restores magicka for health (name eludes me...equilibrium?) with an execute? And none of this BS 20% crap, an actual execute?

That would keep class identity while also helping magDKs finish fights more difinitively.

Also, I don't think Magick DKs' issues in PvP are anything an execute will fix...they are the most underperforming class, barring tanks.

Like this idea, but still want a dk specfic execute.

What makes classes unique is the type of skills it uses. There's a basic combat template of buffs/spammable dps/finishers. You can nuance from there but leaving out one of these basic combat necessities doesnt make it unique, it makes them weak.

Just pisses me off because while you're half joking alot of people think that dks are fine without one because stam is strong, but reliant on weapon skill lines.

Oh, if I had my way each class would have a major weapon damage/spell damage buff, a passive granting minor weap/spell damage, and a spammable and execute.

But ZoS has said that the reason some classes don't have certain things is because they want them to feel 'unique'. I just don't think they'd abandon that standpoint now, given how much they have stood by less than popular decisions in the past (Soft cap removal, AoE cap institution, and more recently poisons).

So to be totally clear; You're right, not having a class specific execute is an issue for magicka DKs specifically, and ZoS needs to fix that. Also slightly joking but mostly hopeful, turn radiant aura into a major spell damage/Weapon damage buff >.>

Lord-Otto

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Stone Giant as an execute was my initial idea as well, but it is a projectile, and that is bad. Especially since DKs are supposed to be in close range. That said, if the exe morph would be a melee skill, it'd be perfect.

Stam DKs have Minor Brutality and stam refresh through their passives, on top of the best anti-ranged tool and great synergy with poison. Venomous Claw and Poison injection are very, very good DoTs in PvP. Molten is amazing for ganks or just plain ranged burst. Yeah, stam DKs might not be god mode, but they are certainly a very strong and harmonic build thanks to great synergies.

Magicka DKs do need an execute, as they have barely anything uber going for them. Good AoE DoTs don't make them OP in boss fights. And every other class has an execute, so this isn't an exclusive thing, but more of a necessity for any build.
Sorcs don't need a spammable, destro staves just need a big buff. ZOS in their stubbornness just refuse to admit that in this game, where ranged combat does not exist thanks to gapclosers, the weaker damage output from staves is not justified by melees having to get in close with higher damage.
Temps are supposed to be healers, and they do that very well. Anything else they get from weapons or sets, so no need for built-in buffs other than healing.

I am sorry otto but Stamina DKs need a execute just as bad cause the so called stamina recovery is only 5% when a DK cast a earthheart spell and stamina DKs don't normally have enough magicka to be using spells let and right and minor brute is jsut that minor another mere 5% and as most know most stamina DKs are tanks their weapon power normally isn't that high to begin with.

As for poison and DoTs yes they are powerful in PvE but just cause it's good in PvE does not mean it's powerful in PvP. Yes DoTs help but any good PvPer can either heal through it or the more smart way is to just remove it via purge or purify synergy and that's only 1v1 when it comes to big groups or zergs DoTs become nearly useless because most DoTs are single target attacks the only actual DoTs I know of that can hit multiple targets are fire breath and its morphs, cleave and its morphs, volatle armor and acid spray.

Yes magical DKs need some help but that doesn't mean stamina DKs are any better.

Trust me, even if stam DKs got a class execute, you wouldn't use it over Executioner. Exe, scaling with 50% health, is extremely strong, people just ignore it for now because of the Radiant Destruction rage. You could make a point about your execute not being tied to a weapon, but 2H offers a gapcloser, execute, buff/heal and spam dps with CC... It offers SO MUCH, I cannot see any stam DK refraining from using it any time soon.
As for the Earthen Heart passives, an additional 8% weapon damage is really really good and will make or break close fights. I agree that you're a bit limited in activating it, but Fossilize is a skill I would highly recommend. Compare that to a sorc that gets 5% more crit chance, so a small CHANCE at doing more damage, which gets nullified against shields and severely weakened against impen armor. It's leagues behind in PvP.
You don't see many DoTs in PvP, but those you see are indeed extremely strong. Claw and Injection are very good, and not everyone has quick access to Purge. Yes, against Zergs it might feel underwhelming if you're on your own, but as soon as you have a second buddy focusing on the same target, the situation changes. And after all, a zerg WILL crush you in PvP most likely, anyway. Thank Wroebel for that.



Shadow,
I think gapcloser should have a range of 8m. They are supposed to close a gap, not a CHASM. It would also help kiting zergs.

Toc de Malsvi

Option 2

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Trust me, even if stam DKs got a class execute, you wouldn't use it over Executioner. Exe, scaling with 50% health, is extremely strong, people just ignore it for now because of the Radiant Destruction rage. You could make a point about your execute not being tied to a weapon, but 2H offers a gapcloser, execute, buff/heal and spam dps with CC... It offers SO MUCH, I cannot see any stam DK refraining from using it any time soon.
As for the Earthen Heart passives, an additional 8% weapon damage is really really good and will make or break close fights. I agree that you're a bit limited in activating it, but Fossilize is a skill I would highly recommend. Compare that to a sorc that gets 5% more crit chance, so a small CHANCE at doing more damage, which gets nullified against shields and severely weakened against impen armor. It's leagues behind in PvP.
You don't see many DoTs in PvP, but those you see are indeed extremely strong. Claw and Injection are very good, and not everyone has quick access to Purge. Yes, against Zergs it might feel underwhelming if you're on your own, but as soon as you have a second buddy focusing on the same target, the situation changes. And after all, a zerg WILL crush you in PvP most likely, anyway. Thank Wroebel for that.



Shadow,
I think gapcloser should have a range of 8m. They are supposed to close a gap, not a CHASM. It would also help kiting zergs.

The 2H skill line would be almost impossible to give up I agree for most builds, however an execute outside of that skill line would at least create more options and entice more DK's away from the 2H skill line. Poison Injection is available to all classes and DK's get no inherent bonus' to DoT damage, the only thing that Stam DK's offer towards Poison Injection is the increase to poison status effect which is not a significant source of damage. In PVE the poison status effect on a v16 stam DK with 4k weapon damage and 33k stam hits for 1k every other second, the only way to guarantee the target has the effect is to use lethal arrow otherwise its just a chance to get the effect. In PVE you are talking 500 or less damage depending on resistances every other second and that is only a chance effect.

As to Minor Brutality it is 5% weapon damage not 8%, it is not nearly as effective as Minor Berserk as Weapon damage goes into the calculation with stamina while Berserk increases the overall damage after the calculation. Also stop pretending that this is a buff only DK's get, sure only DK's can provide it but its a buff to allies so provided you have a DK within 28m of you that uses earthen heart skills, you will have this buff whether you are a DK or not.

Scorcerer's get 2% weapon and spell damage from each scorcerer skill slotted so its not like Scorcerers have not access to weapon damage. Passives wise there are only two aspects that make a DK shine, first resource return on Ultimate use, second is 12% healing received when a draconic power ability is active. Where as passives is where stam Sorc's really start to shine in comparison, 8% max stamina, 15% ult cost reduction, 5% mag and stam cost reduction, 20% stam recovery, 2% weapon damage per sorc skill slotted, 5% physical damage, 6% chance to pulverize target when below 15% health. The Stam Sorc does not have the stamina morphs but they have the best stamina passives in the game.

Anti_Virus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Stone Giant as an execute was my initial idea as well, but it is a projectile, and that is bad. Especially since DKs are supposed to be in close range. That said, if the exe morph would be a melee skill, it'd be perfect.

Stam DKs have Minor Brutality and stam refresh through their passives, on top of the best anti-ranged tool and great synergy with poison. Venomous Claw and Poison injection are very, very good DoTs in PvP. Molten is amazing for ganks or just plain ranged burst. Yeah, stam DKs might not be god mode, but they are certainly a very strong and harmonic build thanks to great synergies.

Magicka DKs do need an execute, as they have barely anything uber going for them. Good AoE DoTs don't make them OP in boss fights. And every other class has an execute, so this isn't an exclusive thing, but more of a necessity for any build.
Sorcs don't need a spammable, destro staves just need a big buff. ZOS in their stubbornness just refuse to admit that in this game, where ranged combat does not exist thanks to gapclosers, the weaker damage output from staves is not justified by melees having to get in close with higher damage.
Temps are supposed to be healers, and they do that very well. Anything else they get from weapons or sets, so no need for built-in buffs other than healing.

I am sorry otto but Stamina DKs need a execute just as bad cause the so called stamina recovery is only 5% when a DK cast a earthheart spell and stamina DKs don't normally have enough magicka to be using spells let and right and minor brute is jsut that minor another mere 5% and as most know most stamina DKs are tanks their weapon power normally isn't that high to begin with.

As for poison and DoTs yes they are powerful in PvE but just cause it's good in PvE does not mean it's powerful in PvP. Yes DoTs help but any good PvPer can either heal through it or the more smart way is to just remove it via purge or purify synergy and that's only 1v1 when it comes to big groups or zergs DoTs become nearly useless because most DoTs are single target attacks the only actual DoTs I know of that can hit multiple targets are fire breath and its morphs, cleave and its morphs, volatle armor and acid spray.

Yes magical DKs need some help but that doesn't mean stamina DKs are any better.

Trust me, even if stam DKs got a class execute, you wouldn't use it over Executioner. Exe, scaling with 50% health, is extremely strong, people just ignore it for now because of the Radiant Destruction rage. You could make a point about your execute not being tied to a weapon, but 2H offers a gapcloser, execute, buff/heal and spam dps with CC... It offers SO MUCH, I cannot see any stam DK refraining from using it any time soon.
As for the Earthen Heart passives, an additional 8% weapon damage is really really good and will make or break close fights. I agree that you're a bit limited in activating it, but Fossilize is a skill I would highly recommend. Compare that to a sorc that gets 5% more crit chance, so a small CHANCE at doing more damage, which gets nullified against shields and severely weakened against impen armor. It's leagues behind in PvP.
You don't see many DoTs in PvP, but those you see are indeed extremely strong. Claw and Injection are very good, and not everyone has quick access to Purge. Yes, against Zergs it might feel underwhelming if you're on your own, but as soon as you have a second buddy focusing on the same target, the situation changes. And after all, a zerg WILL crush you in PvP most likely, anyway. Thank Wroebel for that.



Shadow,
I think gapcloser should have a range of 8m. They are supposed to close a gap, not a CHASM. It would also help kiting zergs.

Well the range is fine but they need to discouraged people from spamming it.

Lord-Otto

Toc:
Fine, 5%. Still a better bonus than spellcrit. 1v1, you are indeed the source of Minor Brutality. Even in a group there's always a difference between a team mate maybe supplying you the buff, or having it guaranteed. Anyway, DK passives stronk, 2h stronk. Mag sorc not strong, damage passives wasted by having to slot weapon skills. Also, not NEARLY the damage numbers any stamina build can easily attain.
Regardless, this was about the execute question. Executioner is very, VERY strong. Before we even think about giving a stam DK, who performs very well atm, more options, we better give mag DKs a crucial and badly needed necessary skill, yes?

Shadow:
Well, anything that prevents you from spamming it and negating ranged combat whatsoever would be appreciated. It gets really old being gapclosed by five zerglings while I'm waving my staff in a desperate attempt to soften the zerg up from a range. (>.>) If gapcloser are to stay like this, then at least ranged attacks should be buffed to be more powerful, but slower. Both forcing you to and making spacing possible. Along with a punishing ground-attack that actually can keep the masses at bay. Not silly useless stuff like immobile mines, but a real blockade.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Option 3

I don't think any change that would buff stam dks in pve as side effect would be good at the moment. Also from my experience 95% of the stam builds use rally in pvp so they have access to a strong execute anyways.
For mag dks I have a different idea which I like more. What about changing the power leash proc to scale like an execute? Keep the current damage from 50-100% hp and increase it on lower hp targets. That way mag dks would have a nice way to kill targets. Just damage them till they are at low hp then fossilize them and execute.

Lokey0024

Option 2

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Trust me, even if stam DKs got a class execute, you wouldn't use it over Executioner. Exe, scaling with 50% health, is extremely strong, people just ignore it for now because of the Radiant Destruction rage. You could make a point about your execute not being tied to a weapon, but 2H offers a gapcloser, execute, buff/heal and spam dps with CC... It offers SO MUCH, I cannot see any stam DK refraining from using it any time soon.
As for the Earthen Heart passives, an additional 8% weapon damage is really really good and will make or break close fights. I agree that you're a bit limited in activating it, but Fossilize is a skill I would highly recommend. Compare that to a sorc that gets 5% more crit chance, so a small CHANCE at doing more damage, which gets nullified against shields and severely weakened against impen armor. It's leagues behind in PvP.
You don't see many DoTs in PvP, but those you see are indeed extremely strong. Claw and Injection are very good, and not everyone has quick access to Purge. Yes, against Zergs it might feel underwhelming if you're on your own, but as soon as you have a second buddy focusing on the same target, the situation changes. And after all, a zerg WILL crush you in PvP most likely, anyway. Thank Wroebel for that.



Shadow,
I think gapcloser should have a range of 8m. They are supposed to close a gap, not a CHASM. It would also help kiting zergs.

The 2H skill line would be almost impossible to give up I agree for most builds, however an execute outside of that skill line would at least create more options and entice more DK's away from the 2H skill line. Poison Injection is available to all classes and DK's get no inherent bonus' to DoT damage, the only thing that Stam DK's offer towards Poison Injection is the increase to poison status effect which is not a significant source of damage. In PVE the poison status effect on a v16 stam DK with 4k weapon damage and 33k stam hits for 1k every other second, the only way to guarantee the target has the effect is to use lethal arrow otherwise its just a chance to get the effect. In PVE you are talking 500 or less damage depending on resistances every other second and that is only a chance effect.

As to Minor Brutality it is 5% weapon damage not 8%, it is not nearly as effective as Minor Berserk as Weapon damage goes into the calculation with stamina while Berserk increases the overall damage after the calculation. Also stop pretending that this is a buff only DK's get, sure only DK's can provide it but its a buff to allies so provided you have a DK within 28m of you that uses earthen heart skills, you will have this buff whether you are a DK or not.

Scorcerer's get 2% weapon and spell damage from each scorcerer skill slotted so its not like Scorcerers have not access to weapon damage. Passives wise there are only two aspects that make a DK shine, first resource return on Ultimate use, second is 12% healing received when a draconic power ability is active. Where as passives is where stam Sorc's really start to shine in comparison, 8% max stamina, 15% ult cost reduction, 5% mag and stam cost reduction, 20% stam recovery, 2% weapon damage per sorc skill slotted, 5% physical damage, 6% chance to pulverize target when below 15% health. The Stam Sorc does not have the stamina morphs but they have the best stamina passives in the game.

No no no no stam sorcs are weak. Shhhhhh

Anti_Virus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Toc:
Fine, 5%. Still a better bonus than spellcrit. 1v1, you are indeed the source of Minor Brutality. Even in a group there's always a difference between a team mate maybe supplying you the buff, or having it guaranteed. Anyway, DK passives stronk, 2h stronk. Mag sorc not strong, damage passives wasted by having to slot weapon skills. Also, not NEARLY the damage numbers any stamina build can easily attain.
Regardless, this was about the execute question. Executioner is very, VERY strong. Before we even think about giving a stam DK, who performs very well atm, more options, we better give mag DKs a crucial and badly needed necessary skill, yes?

Shadow:
Well, anything that prevents you from spamming it and negating ranged combat whatsoever would be appreciated. It gets really old being gapclosed by five zerglings while I'm waving my staff in a desperate attempt to soften the zerg up from a range. (>.>) If gapcloser are to stay like this, then at least ranged attacks should be buffed to be more powerful, but slower. Both forcing you to and making spacing possible. Along with a punishing ground-attack that actually can keep the masses at bay. Not silly useless stuff like immobile mines, but a real blockade.

Yes, ranged attacks should be more reliable to land, right now there is no reason to play ranged. Deal less dmg have less survivability, and less defensive measures.

You play a magic sorc I assume which is strictly a caster so I know your stuggle interms of a spammable dps skill.

I play an archer NB and its even worse for me since this game has very little support for bow.

Toc de Malsvi

Option 2

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Toc:
Fine, 5%. Still a better bonus than spellcrit. 1v1, you are indeed the source of Minor Brutality. Even in a group there's always a difference between a team mate maybe supplying you the buff, or having it guaranteed. Anyway, DK passives stronk, 2h stronk. Mag sorc not strong, damage passives wasted by having to slot weapon skills. Also, not NEARLY the damage numbers any stamina build can easily attain.
Regardless, this was about the execute question. Executioner is very, VERY strong. Before we even think about giving a stam DK, who performs very well atm, more options, we better give mag DKs a crucial and badly needed necessary skill, yes?

Shadow:
Well, anything that prevents you from spamming it and negating ranged combat whatsoever would be appreciated. It gets really old being gapclosed by five zerglings while I'm waving my staff in a desperate attempt to soften the zerg up from a range. (>.>) If gapcloser are to stay like this, then at least ranged attacks should be buffed to be more powerful, but slower. Both forcing you to and making spacing possible. Along with a punishing ground-attack that actually can keep the masses at bay. Not silly useless stuff like immobile mines, but a real blockade.

While I think for balance an execute would be much more beneficial towards magicka over stamina for DK's I do not think that either is needed. When you can sit in a group and weave heavies on a fire/lighting staff with force shock the damage is more than fine. When you can get a target in claws and whip them to death the damage is more than fine. The issue is that outside of those two scenarios magic DK suffers heavily.

Magicka DK's damage is fine outside of having weak ranged options, Magicka DK's suffer because they do not have good healing options, they do not have good mobility, and they do not have good absorbs, and outside of 10s of Magma Armor they do not have any solid survivability. Most of which centers around the fact that dragon blood + wings were supposed to fill those roles but both got nerfed into the ground because of how magicka DK was over performing.

The class should have access to an execute, it performing better for magicka is great but the class should have an execute. Class changes should not be made with the balance of gear that only 1% of the player base has, it should be made with the gear that the majority of players at max level will have. Without Maelstrom weapons a stam dk is no better at dps than any other stamina build and is behind virtually all magicka builds. If balance is around Maelstrom weapons then you screw anyone playing a class that is only strong with maelstrom weapons.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Option 2

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Stone Giant as an execute was my initial idea as well, but it is a projectile, and that is bad. Especially since DKs are supposed to be in close range. That said, if the exe morph would be a melee skill, it'd be perfect.

Stam DKs have Minor Brutality and stam refresh through their passives, on top of the best anti-ranged tool and great synergy with poison. Venomous Claw and Poison injection are very, very good DoTs in PvP. Molten is amazing for ganks or just plain ranged burst. Yeah, stam DKs might not be god mode, but they are certainly a very strong and harmonic build thanks to great synergies.

Magicka DKs do need an execute, as they have barely anything uber going for them. Good AoE DoTs don't make them OP in boss fights. And every other class has an execute, so this isn't an exclusive thing, but more of a necessity for any build.
Sorcs don't need a spammable, destro staves just need a big buff. ZOS in their stubbornness just refuse to admit that in this game, where ranged combat does not exist thanks to gapclosers, the weaker damage output from staves is not justified by melees having to get in close with higher damage.
Temps are supposed to be healers, and they do that very well. Anything else they get from weapons or sets, so no need for built-in buffs other than healing.

I am sorry otto but Stamina DKs need a execute just as bad cause the so called stamina recovery is only 5% when a DK cast a earthheart spell and stamina DKs don't normally have enough magicka to be using spells let and right and minor brute is jsut that minor another mere 5% and as most know most stamina DKs are tanks their weapon power normally isn't that high to begin with.

As for poison and DoTs yes they are powerful in PvE but just cause it's good in PvE does not mean it's powerful in PvP. Yes DoTs help but any good PvPer can either heal through it or the more smart way is to just remove it via purge or purify synergy and that's only 1v1 when it comes to big groups or zergs DoTs become nearly useless because most DoTs are single target attacks the only actual DoTs I know of that can hit multiple targets are fire breath and its morphs, cleave and its morphs, volatle armor and acid spray.

Yes magical DKs need some help but that doesn't mean stamina DKs are any better.

Trust me, even if stam DKs got a class execute, you wouldn't use it over Executioner. Exe, scaling with 50% health, is extremely strong, people just ignore it for now because of the Radiant Destruction rage. You could make a point about your execute not being tied to a weapon, but 2H offers a gapcloser, execute, buff/heal and spam dps with CC... It offers SO MUCH, I cannot see any stam DK refraining from using it any time soon.
As for the Earthen Heart passives, an additional 8% weapon damage is really really good and will make or break close fights. I agree that you're a bit limited in activating it, but Fossilize is a skill I would highly recommend. Compare that to a sorc that gets 5% more crit chance, so a small CHANCE at doing more damage, which gets nullified against shields and severely weakened against impen armor. It's leagues behind in PvP.
You don't see many DoTs in PvP, but those you see are indeed extremely strong. Claw and Injection are very good, and not everyone has quick access to Purge. Yes, against Zergs it might feel underwhelming if you're on your own, but as soon as you have a second buddy focusing on the same target, the situation changes. And after all, a zerg WILL crush you in PvP most likely, anyway. Thank Wroebel for that.



Shadow,
I think gapcloser should have a range of 8m. They are supposed to close a gap, not a CHASM. It would also help kiting zergs.

Back when molten armaments was a execute I was able to easily kill players with 35% health and I never touched execute and 8% that only proves the point that this game is designed for whom ever has the higher attack will always win.

DoTs yes not good for big groups nor small fights half them time cause even if they don't purge they can easily health through it cause max weapon/spell power also means massive healing.

Again as I said before stam DKs not as good as players think.

SolarCat02

I use igneous weapons in PvE dungeons on my healer to buff the group. So whichever option doesn't remove that ability to buff magicka and stamina DPS for PvE dungeons works well for me.

I want magicka DK's to have an execute, they could certainly use one!
I just don't want my DK healer to get nerfed in the process.

Mortehl

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Trust me, even if stam DKs got a class execute, you wouldn't use it over Executioner. Exe, scaling with 50% health, is extremely strong, people just ignore it for now because of the Radiant Destruction rage. You could make a point about your execute not being tied to a weapon, but 2H offers a gapcloser, execute, buff/heal and spam dps with CC... It offers SO MUCH, I cannot see any stam DK refraining from using it any time soon.
As for the Earthen Heart passives, an additional 8% weapon damage is really really good and will make or break close fights. I agree that you're a bit limited in activating it, but Fossilize is a skill I would highly recommend. Compare that to a sorc that gets 5% more crit chance, so a small CHANCE at doing more damage, which gets nullified against shields and severely weakened against impen armor. It's leagues behind in PvP.
You don't see many DoTs in PvP, but those you see are indeed extremely strong. Claw and Injection are very good, and not everyone has quick access to Purge. Yes, against Zergs it might feel underwhelming if you're on your own, but as soon as you have a second buddy focusing on the same target, the situation changes. And after all, a zerg WILL crush you in PvP most likely, anyway. Thank Wroebel for that.



Shadow,
I think gapcloser should have a range of 8m. They are supposed to close a gap, not a CHASM. It would also help kiting zergs.

I just want to say how well thought out and clear your response is. As someone who plays three different dragon knights I have mixed feelings (obviously the more toys my class has the happier I am), but realistically speaking this statement sums up the same conclusion I had. PVE wise dragonknights are putting out 30-55k dps already if played by someone marginally to very competent. PVP wise we have the 2h tree for execute and 1h+board for sustain.

You could make an argument for a magicka based execute for the other dk people but that's it. Stamina dragonknights are f'in amazing now.

Astanphaeus

Option 3

I want an execute as a magicka dk, but this idea is not really helpful at all. I'd prefer a replacement for Inferno as it is a useless spell, and some sort of fire execute would be awesome.

Also, I like the new Igneous Weapons.