New Sorc shields after playing a few hours.

bardx86

Sandman929 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

All shields scaling off of health levels the playing field. If you want a good shield, invest in health. The other side of that coin is dodge roll cost should be tied to health...break free cost should be tied to health.
Defense based on the same attribute players use for damage will always be unbalanced.

How would that level the playing field when those classes that use bone shield or similar have like 10 different ways to mitigate damage or heal? sorc do not. No one puts points into health everyone stack stam or magic for damage. break free tied to health? What? Better question, could I get some of what you are smoking?

Sandman929

Exactly. That's the problem.

Sandman929

No one puts points into health. That's why things are unbalanced and always will be until health means something.

Sandman929

Damage is out of control because defense is tied to offense and no one has to balance the two when they can have both.

DjSolJAH

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Competent sorcs are not arguing the fact that sorcs were OP. It's just a shame the way they bandaid the class and make performance so poor. Many others ways to balance the class have been discussed over the last year that would have been a more suitable change... Balance, unfortunately, is not a concept ZOS can grasp

Bramir

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

Clearly you play no other class. Why should mag DK and magplar be given the choice to either invest health to make their shield worthwhile or have a useless shield. We are seeking balance. Making sorc shield (indeed every shield including healing ward and harness magic) scale with health would give health a better meaning. Also this would reduce damage and while their at it they should give a buff to other weaker shields like igneous, blazing, and bone shield. I don't mind the duration nerf, however I would prefer the health tratment.

Also don't try and say sorc was balanced in last patch. Sorcs could easily tank 5-6 people 28th shields, los, and streak. And during this hypothetical fight, the sorc could do massive stacked damage with curse frag and detonation. This is not balanced.

Hypothetical fight? So it never actually happened, yet you are basing your argument on it? The ZOS development team could use someone like you!

klink012

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Sorcerer is as good as dead right now. As if the excessive bolt escape nerfs weren't enough. As if the surge nerf wasn't enough. As if the double reflect nerf wasn't enough. Now shields expire before you can start to even fight.

It is complete and utter nonsense just to cater to the endless whining over the past two years.

+1 ZoS listened to the wrong crowd (who probably aren't even playing the game anymore).

STEVIL

Archmage1 wrote: »

ZOS, have you not heard enough? Please fix Sorcs before 25% of your ESO population diminishes. I for one do not play alts....and Sorc is my main.

How did you arrive at 25%?

four classes, one is sorc and sorcs will drop?

But...

No evidence the divison is even.
No evidence a significant number are LEAVING vs adapting or shifting to different class.

using your math... if 4 sorcs quit, 1 leaves and the other three take up NB, DK and TE... then 755 of the ESO pop has grown which is a YUGE win, right?

i have 3 sorcs out of 10 chars inc a new one just started after Db. not going anywhere.

Killa4hire89

bardx86 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

All shields scaling off of health levels the playing field. If you want a good shield, invest in health. The other side of that coin is dodge roll cost should be tied to health...break free cost should be tied to health.
Defense based on the same attribute players use for damage will always be unbalanced.

How would that level the playing field when those classes that use bone shield or similar have like 10 different ways to mitigate damage or heal? sorc do not. No one puts points into health everyone stack stam or magic for damage. break free tied to health? What? Better question, could I get some of what you are smoking?

It levels the playing field by putting all shields in same category. Not one shield > every other shield in game. How does a do defend himself in LA with no streak or shields? Or you just don't care and are one of the whiny sorcs who are calling this a nerf and saying s orc is useless.

bardx86

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

All shields scaling off of health levels the playing field. If you want a good shield, invest in health. The other side of that coin is dodge roll cost should be tied to health...break free cost should be tied to health.
Defense based on the same attribute players use for damage will always be unbalanced.

How would that level the playing field when those classes that use bone shield or similar have like 10 different ways to mitigate damage or heal? sorc do not. No one puts points into health everyone stack stam or magic for damage. break free tied to health? What? Better question, could I get some of what you are smoking?

It levels the playing field by putting all shields in same category. Not one shield > every other shield in game. How does a do defend himself in LA with no streak or shields? Or you just don't care and are one of the whiny sorcs who are calling this a nerf and saying s orc is useless.

Thant make zero sense other classes have other defensive abilities the sorc shield has to be better.

bardx86

Another *** thing is I'm out of magicka like always now.

ToRelax

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

Clearly you play no other class. Why should mag DK and magplar be given the choice to either invest health to make their shield worthwhile or have a useless shield. We are seeking balance. Making sorc shield (indeed every shield including healing ward and harness magic) scale with health would give health a better meaning. Also this would reduce damage and while their at it they should give a buff to other weaker shields like igneous, blazing, and bone shield. I don't mind the duration nerf, however I would prefer the health tratment.

Also don't try and say sorc was balanced in last patch. Sorcs could easily tank 5-6 people 28th shields, los, and streak. And during this hypothetical fight, the sorc could do massive stacked damage with curse frag and detonation. This is not balanced.

You don't seem to know your classes any better though. A Templar or DK doesn't need impenetrable. You are also adding together relatively high Sorc stats and call the result OP - if you want to make an argument, provide an actual build or screenshot to make your argument about.
Basing magicka shields on health is still a terrible idea, and I don't really want to write it all down again. There are enough threads about that one, I'm sure. Also, how is the stacked Sorc burst any better then the instant NB burst that you do not see coming? And yeah, if a Sorc could tank 5-6 players, than those players were bad.

Killa4hire89

ToRelax wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

Clearly you play no other class. Why should mag DK and magplar be given the choice to either invest health to make their shield worthwhile or have a useless shield. We are seeking balance. Making sorc shield (indeed every shield including healing ward and harness magic) scale with health would give health a better meaning. Also this would reduce damage and while their at it they should give a buff to other weaker shields like igneous, blazing, and bone shield. I don't mind the duration nerf, however I would prefer the health tratment.

Also don't try and say sorc was balanced in last patch. Sorcs could easily tank 5-6 people 28th shields, los, and streak. And during this hypothetical fight, the sorc could do massive stacked damage with curse frag and detonation. This is not balanced.

You don't seem to know your classes any better though. A Templar or DK doesn't need impenetrable. You are also adding together relatively high Sorc stats and call the result OP - if you want to make an argument, provide an actual build or screenshot to make your argument about.
Basing magicka shields on health is still a terrible idea, and I don't really want to write it all down again. There are enough threads about that one, I'm sure. Also, how is the stacked Sorc burst any better then the instant NB burst that you do not see coming? And yeah, if a Sorc could tank 5-6 players, than those players were bad.

Lol you lost all credibility when you said temp or dk don't need impen. You try running a magplar or mag dk without inpen. I'll laugh as I melt you, or better yet when a nb jumps ya.

I also never said sorc stacked dmg was better. I simply pointed out sorcs great stacked dmg to counter someone earlier who made the ridiculous comment that sorcs had the worst dps. That honor falls to mag dk lol.

Personally this is how I see the game. NB should have best burst in game FROM stealth. Sorc should be best burst not from stealth. Both of these classes however should have very limited survivability. Templar and DK should have mediocre dmg but best survivability BY FAR. Instead s orc had one of the best survivability set ups with probably the second best burst in game.

Just my personal opinion.

holosoul

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Personally this is how I see the game. NB should have best burst in game FROM stealth. Sorc should be best burst not from stealth. Both of these classes however should have very limited survivability. Templar and DK should have mediocre dmg but best survivability BY FAR. Instead s orc had one of the best survivability set ups with probably the second best burst in game.

Just my personal opinion.

Well damn it that's probably what most people who rolled sorc expected
but that's not what it is now

We don't have the best burst except in overload, which is not only cheesy but boring. I wish ZOS would remove overload so we could get balanced correctly. Sure, we have some decent burst combos, but they seem less threatening than the stam DK combos.

I want ZOS to get rid of all damage shields (class and weapon), change dodge/block to use magicka if its your main stat, give vigor a magicka morph, and buff sorc damage. Don't even need to un-nerf streak or revert the change that lets charge ignore mines now.

Killa4hire89

holosoul wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Personally this is how I see the game. NB should have best burst in game FROM stealth. Sorc should be best burst not from stealth. Both of these classes however should have very limited survivability. Templar and DK should have mediocre dmg but best survivability BY FAR. Instead s orc had one of the best survivability set ups with probably the second best burst in game.

Just my personal opinion.

Well damn it that's probably what most people who rolled sorc expected
but that's not what it is now

We don't have the best burst except in overload, which is not only cheesy but boring. I wish ZOS would remove overload so we could get balanced correctly. Sure, we have some decent burst combos, but they seem less threatening than the stam DK combos.

I want ZOS to get rid of all damage shields (class and weapon), change dodge/block to use magicka if its your main stat, give vigor a magicka morph, and buff sorc damage. Don't even need to un-nerf streak or revert the change that lets charge ignore mines now.

Sorc has one of the best dps combos in game with detonation - curse - streak - frag - mage fury.

Stam dk burst combo got a needed nerf this update when they removed stun from wb. Now you either have stun OR empowered leap, not both.

Seems pretty balanced to me since both combos can be blocked (and DK burst can be negated by a single dodge through shuffle, roll, or the nb equivalent.)

bardx86

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Personally this is how I see the game. NB should have best burst in game FROM stealth. Sorc should be best burst not from stealth. Both of these classes however should have very limited survivability. Templar and DK should have mediocre dmg but best survivability BY FAR. Instead s orc had one of the best survivability set ups with probably the second best burst in game.

Just my personal opinion.

Well damn it that's probably what most people who rolled sorc expected
but that's not what it is now

We don't have the best burst except in overload, which is not only cheesy but boring. I wish ZOS would remove overload so we could get balanced correctly. Sure, we have some decent burst combos, but they seem less threatening than the stam DK combos.

I want ZOS to get rid of all damage shields (class and weapon), change dodge/block to use magicka if its your main stat, give vigor a magicka morph, and buff sorc damage. Don't even need to un-nerf streak or revert the change that lets charge ignore mines now.

Sorc has one of the best dps combos in game with detonation - curse - streak - frag - mage fury.

Stam dk burst combo got a needed nerf this update when they removed stun from wb. Now you either have stun OR empowered leap, not both.

Seems pretty balanced to me since both combos can be blocked (and DK burst can be negated by a single dodge through shuffle, roll, or the nb equivalent.)

huh? 1. det got nerfed. 2 frags lands like less then any other skill. 3 what does offense have to do with defense? NB and DK have better dps than sorc and and a hell of a lot more mitigation, gtfo dude!

Killa4hire89

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

holosoul wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Personally this is how I see the game. NB should have best burst in game FROM stealth. Sorc should be best burst not from stealth. Both of these classes however should have very limited survivability. Templar and DK should have mediocre dmg but best survivability BY FAR. Instead s orc had one of the best survivability set ups with probably the second best burst in game.

Just my personal opinion.

Well damn it that's probably what most people who rolled sorc expected
but that's not what it is now

We don't have the best burst except in overload, which is not only cheesy but boring. I wish ZOS would remove overload so we could get balanced correctly. Sure, we have some decent burst combos, but they seem less threatening than the stam DK combos.

I want ZOS to get rid of all damage shields (class and weapon), change dodge/block to use magicka if its your main stat, give vigor a magicka morph, and buff sorc damage. Don't even need to un-nerf streak or revert the change that lets charge ignore mines now.

Sorc has one of the best dps combos in game with detonation - curse - streak - frag - mage fury.

Stam dk burst combo got a needed nerf this update when they removed stun from wb. Now you either have stun OR empowered leap, not both.

Seems pretty balanced to me since both combos can be blocked (and DK burst can be negated by a single dodge through shuffle, roll, or the nb equivalent.)

huh? 1. det got nerfed. 2 frags lands like less then any other skill. 3 what does offense have to do with defense? NB and DK have better dps than sorc and and a hell of a lot more mitigation, gtfo dude!

Dk does not have better dmg than a sorc. If your comparing stam DK to mag sorc maybe, but you should look at stam sorc to stam dk. Stam sorc can get higher dmg due to passives and higher stamina through an active skill. If your comparing mag dk to mag sorc then I need an lol button.

bardx86

you are missing the point, all the other classes you mention have better tools to avoid or soak up damage than a Mag sorc. the 6 sec ward is so *** its not even funny. mag dk will own a sorc with those flappy dam wings and leap.

Killa4hire89

@bardx86 man I understand your point. I just feel differently. You have more shields this update than last. Harness now absorbs physical dmg to. Sorc SHOULD NOT be tanky in full divines LA. You SHOULD melt. Invest in impen, try other playstyles other than shield an shield and weeeeeee. If you play glass cannon you should have little mitigation.

Digiman

All ZoS does is listen to minority that is the loudest, bound armor look is gone. No option, gone and that sucked for me.

As for combat changes for Sorcerers you can bet the farm that there is an overhaul due for this class because Wrobel took the only lynch pin he put holding a class together and threw it away like a petulant child.

So next content patch other classes are going to complain why there are no changes and improvements to there classes.

IB4 patch 2.5 Sorcerer's suck patch.

As for those who wait, your going to have to have specific build to be competent in PvP, and required to have a pet summoned for PvE.

holosoul

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

You SHOULD melt. Invest in impen, try other playstyles other than shield an shield and weeeeeee. If you play glass cannon you should have little mitigation.

Infused/divines on small pieces will give you the equiv of maybe 500 - 800 magicka
if you compare that to 20% crit resist, it's almost an apples and oranges comparison, that screams, "this is the pvp stat"

Do you honestly believe that "most" sorcs don't already run impen? Perhaps the fact that you think that demonstrates exactly how squishy sorc health is.

A sorc, even before this patch, would have to be basically the lowest IQ player on the server to have 0 impen

ToRelax

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

Clearly you play no other class. Why should mag DK and magplar be given the choice to either invest health to make their shield worthwhile or have a useless shield. We are seeking balance. Making sorc shield (indeed every shield including healing ward and harness magic) scale with health would give health a better meaning. Also this would reduce damage and while their at it they should give a buff to other weaker shields like igneous, blazing, and bone shield. I don't mind the duration nerf, however I would prefer the health tratment.

Also don't try and say sorc was balanced in last patch. Sorcs could easily tank 5-6 people 28th shields, los, and streak. And during this hypothetical fight, the sorc could do massive stacked damage with curse frag and detonation. This is not balanced.

You don't seem to know your classes any better though. A Templar or DK doesn't need impenetrable. You are also adding together relatively high Sorc stats and call the result OP - if you want to make an argument, provide an actual build or screenshot to make your argument about.
Basing magicka shields on health is still a terrible idea, and I don't really want to write it all down again. There are enough threads about that one, I'm sure. Also, how is the stacked Sorc burst any better then the instant NB burst that you do not see coming? And yeah, if a Sorc could tank 5-6 players, than those players were bad.

Lol you lost all credibility when you said temp or dk don't need impen. You try running a magplar or mag dk without inpen. I'll laugh as I melt you, or better yet when a nb jumps ya.

I also never said sorc stacked dmg was better. I simply pointed out sorcs great stacked dmg to counter someone earlier who made the ridiculous comment that sorcs had the worst dps. That honor falls to mag dk lol.

Personally this is how I see the game. NB should have best burst in game FROM stealth. Sorc should be best burst not from stealth. Both of these classes however should have very limited survivability. Templar and DK should have mediocre dmg but best survivability BY FAR. Instead s orc had one of the best survivability set ups with probably the second best burst in game.

Just my personal opinion.

holosoul wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

You SHOULD melt. Invest in impen, try other playstyles other than shield an shield and weeeeeee. If you play glass cannon you should have little mitigation.

Infused/divines on small pieces will give you the equiv of maybe 500 - 800 magicka
if you compare that to 20% crit resist, it's almost an apples and oranges comparison, that screams, "this is the pvp stat"

Do you honestly believe that "most" sorcs don't already run impen? Perhaps the fact that you think that demonstrates exactly how squishy sorc health is.

A sorc, even before this patch, would have to be basically the lowest IQ player on the server to have 0 impen

You guys are pretty arrogant. I run 0 impen and I think I'm doing pretty well with my Sorc. And so do the Templars and DKs without impen in my guild. Seriously, it doesn't help you to question my credibility. We went through that already.

Minalan

I ran in a gank squad tonight.

We killed just about every class, took keeps, etc.

One thing we noticed?

Templar can heal up more damage than one player can dish out. Often more than two or three can. Balance. 45K health. Full impen. Capped armor and resist. Jesus beam spam left and right, after you're already on the ground. F*** you @wrobel

DK can defend itself against anything a sorc can do.

Nightblades can two shot you.

Sorcs were the only class that died in a few hits. Anytime we saw one. Stun. Dead. The team spent almost as much time scraping me off of the ground as not.

I eventually went back to stacking shields. 8K Empowered Ward back bar (10 seconds) and Anulment (6 seconds) on the front for 9K. It's stupid but it worked better.

holosoul

ToRelax wrote: »

[
You guys are pretty arrogant. I run 0 impen and I think I'm doing pretty well with my Sorc. And so do the Templars and DKs without impen in my guild. Seriously, it doesn't help you to question my credibility. We went through that already.

That's nice, enjoy your 1k magicka?

Makkir

Lets make it a thing! put it in your signature!

#SorcLivesMatter

DHale

Makkir wrote: »

Lets make it a thing! put it in your signature!

#SorcLivesMatter

Great idea

Killa4hire89

ToRelax wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

Ok, I don't want to come across as ride or crude here but NO CLASS in the game could stack pure offense like a sorc could. For templar and DK (the two classes I play) you are pretty much forced to wear impenetrable to even have a chance at survivability. When you combine the fact that shields were A: a hard counter to any critical hits and B: Shielding sorcs against upwards of 20k magic damage you begin to see the problem.

Sorcs (prior to DB) were able to run 45k plus magic, have around 20kish health and 20k shields. Factor this with 8-10k instant proc frags and 5-7k curse with 5-7k detonation and mages fury it was very possible to one ahot people by stacking damage. Factor in the CP system and sorcs could achieve high enough stam management to where they would never run out of stam.

So we have a class with 20k health, 20k shields that completely prevent crits, and enough potential burst to one shot people.

I feel the duration nerf is a good thing but I would have prefered for ALL shields in game to have scaled with max health. This would make hardened on the same level as blazing and or igneous shield which would make sorcs have the same choice dks and templars have to make.
Damage or survivability.

As far as damage it needs a huge nerf for everything except mag DK. This is an mmo not CoD.

Seriously gonna use a templar as a compare? You can heal dude! In fact a well played Templar prior to DB was impossible to kill although they probably couldn't kill a sorc but now there is now way a sorc can take down a templar and the sorc will get face roled by the templar. Anyhow the duration nerf is horrible way to address this, even tho I don't believe there was even a problem. No other class has to spam 2 spells every 5-6 sec in and out of combat to stay alive. Scaling of health is just stupid, I'm sorry. Nothing on a sorc should scale off health.

Clearly you play no other class. Why should mag DK and magplar be given the choice to either invest health to make their shield worthwhile or have a useless shield. We are seeking balance. Making sorc shield (indeed every shield including healing ward and harness magic) scale with health would give health a better meaning. Also this would reduce damage and while their at it they should give a buff to other weaker shields like igneous, blazing, and bone shield. I don't mind the duration nerf, however I would prefer the health tratment.

Also don't try and say sorc was balanced in last patch. Sorcs could easily tank 5-6 people 28th shields, los, and streak. And during this hypothetical fight, the sorc could do massive stacked damage with curse frag and detonation. This is not balanced.

You don't seem to know your classes any better though. A Templar or DK doesn't need impenetrable. You are also adding together relatively high Sorc stats and call the result OP - if you want to make an argument, provide an actual build or screenshot to make your argument about.
Basing magicka shields on health is still a terrible idea, and I don't really want to write it all down again. There are enough threads about that one, I'm sure. Also, how is the stacked Sorc burst any better then the instant NB burst that you do not see coming? And yeah, if a Sorc could tank 5-6 players, than those players were bad.

Lol you lost all credibility when you said temp or dk don't need impen. You try running a magplar or mag dk without inpen. I'll laugh as I melt you, or better yet when a nb jumps ya.

I also never said sorc stacked dmg was better. I simply pointed out sorcs great stacked dmg to counter someone earlier who made the ridiculous comment that sorcs had the worst dps. That honor falls to mag dk lol.

Personally this is how I see the game. NB should have best burst in game FROM stealth. Sorc should be best burst not from stealth. Both of these classes however should have very limited survivability. Templar and DK should have mediocre dmg but best survivability BY FAR. Instead s orc had one of the best survivability set ups with probably the second best burst in game.

Just my personal opinion.

holosoul wrote: »

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

You SHOULD melt. Invest in impen, try other playstyles other than shield an shield and weeeeeee. If you play glass cannon you should have little mitigation.

Infused/divines on small pieces will give you the equiv of maybe 500 - 800 magicka
if you compare that to 20% crit resist, it's almost an apples and oranges comparison, that screams, "this is the pvp stat"

Do you honestly believe that "most" sorcs don't already run impen? Perhaps the fact that you think that demonstrates exactly how squishy sorc health is.

A sorc, even before this patch, would have to be basically the lowest IQ player on the server to have 0 impen

You guys are pretty arrogant. I run 0 impen and I think I'm doing pretty well with my Sorc. And so do the Templars and DKs without impen in my guild. Seriously, it doesn't help you to question my credibility. We went through that already.

I am not arrogant in the least. Stating that Templars and dks don't need impen in PvP is just not true. I play all forms of dk and Templar, and ANY LA build w/o impen or shields melts quick.

Hell my templar runs 20k physical resist and 24k spell resist 28th 2.6k crit resist and nbs still hit me for 8k+ with soul harvest b4 DB. Sorcs also hit for 7-9k frags. Point is w/o impen he would melt, but 28th it he is able to tank ppl.

As it stood in TG, sorc was only class that did not NEED to run impen as shields negated crits. Now since your shields are tougher to maintain you will have to make a choice, max dps, or tankiness without shields.

I'm done typing in here because I have learned over my 2+ years of playing this game that there are 2 very vocal "forum warrior" classes. Those are nbs and Sorcs. So next patch sorc whining will lead to OP Sorcs again while other classes like dk and Templar continue to get overlooked (fyi not talking about stam dk, that need some balancing done lol)

bardx86

Killa4hire89 wrote: »

@bardx86 man I understand your point. I just feel differently. You have more shields this update than last. Harness now absorbs physical dmg to. Sorc SHOULD NOT be tanky in full divines LA. You SHOULD melt. Invest in impen, try other playstyles other than shield an shield and weeeeeee. If you play glass cannon you should have little mitigation.

See here is the issue. We can not stack effectively any longer. The shields do not last long enough. By the time you cast both the shield the first one has 4 sec left. To go offensive its not enough time. All your opponent has to do is LOS or dodge role for a 1 to 2 sec and we are forced to re-apply the shields as soon as you start that process you will be cc'ed and dead. The problem is we are forced to go glass cannon as we can not get our damage output on par with other classes if we do not. As the OP mentioned Templars can it heal basically 2 sorcs damage output and a DK and mitigate a couple of us as well. Both have the power to kill use with a couple of hits. It's not balanced I'm sorry whether you believe we should have little mitigation or not its not fun.

bardx86

sorry double pot

bardx86

sorry double post