Nerf WGT ICP yes...the normal

Mush55

Autolycus wrote: »

My opinion on WGT and ICP is that scaling does not provide the appropriate handicap to lower-level players to place them on-par with the difficulty of the dungeon. I've seen evidence of this in numerous areas, but I believe it is most pronounced in these two dungeons specifically.

Scaling puts too much emphasis on the wrong stats, and it's disproportionate to the way we build our characters at vr16. I've never seen a scaled character that ended up with the "appropriate" amount of max stats (including health) and offensive stats (crit, SD/WD, etc.). Now, part of this is based on the gear worn by the scaled player, which makes this is bit more complicated, but the point of scaling is supposed bring that character to a level where they are actually competitive. I've known good players with a lot of CP who brought mid-vet rank characters into these two dungeons, and still didn't end up with a good stat allocation.

I think part of the problem here is that ZOS is trying to make too much endgame content available to players that should probably be waiting to a higher rank to participate. Please understand that I'm not against newer or lower-level players personally, I simply believe the difficulty of the dungeon sets higher standards which even I would struggle to meet on a mid-vet rank toon.

Scaling should be a tiered system. Depending on the content, scaling should adjust certain stats to a higher/lower degree accordingly. For example, a vr10 character going to Wrothgar should not be scaled identically to that same exact vr10 character going into ICP or WGT. Rather, that player should be scaled to a more competitive level (relative to the Wrothgar scaling) so that it matches more closely with difficulty of ICP and WGT.

I also support lower limits on characters who wish to participate, an example perhaps is setting ICP and WGT to vr10-vr16 range, rather than opening it up to vr1-vr16. At the very least, this would help ZOS maintain a more appropriate scaling system (it would be easier to fine-tune a narrower range of vet levels). Again, this isn't because I hate lower vet characters (in fact, I help new and returning players daily). I simply don't think it speaks well to content balancing, and I don't think there's anything wrong with reserving some content for higher-level characters. After all, we can't really call it endgame content, if you can go in there after 25% of the leveling process.

Spot on go in at lvl 30 to one of the hardest dungeons ingame and cry nerf when it all fails

x_t7ink_x

OP heres a basic mechanic guide:

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/White+Gold+Tower

However I would suggest you check out the guild recruitment tabs on the forum and look for an active PVE guild. I will agree with the statements on this thread (once you know the mechanics) this dungeon is easy, especially as there are short cuts - for e.g. running past all the adds for a trash pull and die/res when you hit a door to make it that little bit quicker. Normal really shouldn't be this much of an isue for you and it does sound like you need a decent set of 4 players.

Nothing is more frustrating than being stuck in a dungeon with 4 people who don't know what they're doing with no mic or no decent gear/food.

You mentioned you got to the planar inhibitor boss and you kitted around until you died but don't know why.. If you get a good group and you are getting through the bosses, if I was you my first question would be why are you making me do this? That way i would know for next time and if I did get stuck with others that didn't know the mechanics I would be able to educate.

My answer for you taking the portals - usually if one person is taking the portals until death then being res it's the tank because they can struggle to close the portals. For you as a healer you shouldn't be taking all of the aggro you should be alive, and you definitely should be able to close the portals in an instant with radiant oppression.

Bofrari

If you cannot beat normal then you have a real L2P issue.

x_t7ink_x

After assessing my comments I decided to do a very quick overview for you:

1st boss -

1. Tank holds agro near the stairs, over on the left, on the right - it really doesn't matter where they do this, they should try to move the boss about the floor to the less flamed area.
2. At least one player in the group really should have max Legerdemain and full points into force lock (meaning they have a huge increased chance to just break the lock of the cages open, rather than using the lock-pick). If the healer or tank goes in its better to have that one or two players to brake them free instantly, I would suggest a cage system. Whats that? Left cage 1, left cage 2, right cage 1, right cage 2 you all instantly know which cage people are in then.
3. Zombies - If the tank can pull these in with the boss and survive brilliant, if not no worries - however it goes they need to be dead instantly - so stick some aoe damage on them - healers can throw a shard at them to disorient them so they stop whacking everyone for a second.
4. Healers - I would suggest covering the the floor in purify constantly due to the burn damage. Also healing springs works wonders BOL for an emergency. A negate magic shield on your damage bar along with maybe dark flare (for when the fight first starts for an extra burn down on damage) jaby jabs for aeo in case the zombies come to you and for any unknown reason you're totally stuck with them (self heal and an aeo damage) - radiant oppression as a finisher.
   

Run through the adds in the corridor until you get to a door, die then resurrect to go through the door - this cuts a bit of time down. However feel free to fight them if you'd like to some people just like killing stuff.

2nd bosses -

Get the tank to pull Cordious (dk) out of the way whilst the healer and dps kill micella - the NB. Then focus on the dk, then the healer.
Keep the dk & nb out of the healers circle and every-time the healer goes to cast a heal on them interrupt it either with a bass or crushing shock or a shard (anything that will interrupt casting or stun)
There's lots of fire off the healer so basic mechanics here try to stay out the middle of the fire when it comes out, stick some purify down and heal at will.

Same again with adds

Mini Titan -

This is fairly simple - it shoots out a magic ball so just shield up dampen magic etc., let the tank hold aggro stick purify down keep moving your feet for the fire aoes and let the dps do their job.

3rd boss plannar -

Ok this is the boss that gets most people. there are a few ways to do this, firstly you need to know if the tank can close portals, they will know if not then have a quick run and see if they can.

If they can - great:

Take it in turns to grab the pinion, go by name order on screen in the group that way you all know when you need to take it (say 'i've got it' when you do). take the boss round the outside never dragging it through the middle, it's especially important to be quick with blue flame stage as this is heavy burning. Bare in mind if someone takes it twice the burn damage is increased on them. Communication is the key for this fight if someone gets portals they must say so that the person next in line after them for the pinion knows its their turn. Also important to say when they are done. The person with portals (grey screen) must get them closed asap and try not to let any adds out, 1 or two you can handle too many and an ogrim and you may as well wipe and start again. Stand in the middle and just keep turning around this way the portals are much more visible. Radiant oppression ive found is the best closer for healers. I would again suggest shielding up for this boss as it massively helps you not die

If they can't - not so great but doable:

This tactic is exactly the same as the other only the tank takes the agro until someone says they have portals. Once this happens then someone else grabs the next agro and then the tank takes it back ensuring they do not get the portals. This way is a little messy but it still gets the job done.

Now you're on you way through to the final boss Molag Kena

If you've made it thus far of my scrambled guide congratulations that in itself deserves a medal!

1. Tank takes agro of the boss I can't remember if there's lightening in normal mode or not it's been a while! It's safer for the tank to keep Kena on the outside but not too close as the flames will kill you - this way it takes longer for the lightening to come back round. Shield up again!
2. Throw a few shards out for people to keep stam up because if you roll through the lightening there's no damage if you block, jump or walk there's damage (albeit less if you block).
3. When kena goes to the middle of her own accord follow her cause shes about to jump and push you all backwards - if you're on the edge you'll get knocked back into the flames.
4. Watch out for attronachs, when they turn up kill them as a priority because they will try to sit on your head and explode!
5. When shes jumped in the middle she gets a shield around her so theres no point trying to damage her. There will be 4 adds that appear - kill these for the shield to drop. There will be waves of lightening coming out so try to avoid these, don't take to long as she will jump again only harder this time and push back further. Word of warning if anyone is dead at this point wait until your team mate is killing the last add to res as you wont have time during the waves of lightening they'll just keep interrupting you.
6. Rinse, repeat - Execute!!
   
   Hope all of that made sense I may have skipped a little bit here or there but im sure people will be kind enough to correct anything or add.

Dubhliam

And once again: the game fails to provide linear progression, or even indicate that X dungeon is harder than Y dungeon.

If people can do normal pledges every day with their every day unoptimized build, they should be able to do normal WGT or ICP, right?

Wrong.

In my opinion, the thought process here is reversed.
Instead of nerfing every group dungeon content to the level of world bosses and world mobs, those same world monsters should be buffed a notch, and the normal dungeons should also be buffed a notch to be on-par with normal WGT and ICP.

If anything, doing so would make content difficulty CONSISTENT, and people would not come to the conclusion that something needs a nerf.
If EVERYTHING is hard to beat, then the problem most certainly is in the eye of the beholder.

Once ZOS stops holding players' hands in dungeons, they will start progressing (improving) and stop asking for nerfs.

Okay, so tips for ZOS:
1. balance the content so the difficulty is consistent
2. tweet and post more videos like Deltia's builds

Tips for players having trouble:
1. don't ask for a nerf of a single dungeon, instead make a detailed list of dungeons with a "difficulty rating"- which dungeons are the hardest for you and why
2. get informed - every good guild master and officer should get to know all mechanics of dungeons and teach them to other players while in a dungeon.
3. always strive to get better - even if something gets nerfed, there will be something else that you cannot beat if you refuse to grow and learn

Dubhliam

code65536 wrote: »

The OP does have a valid point, though.

nICP and nWGT, relative to the other normal dungeons, are much harder. Which, on its own, is fine.

But the really big problem, though, is that the minimum level for nICP/nWGT is 10.

Battle-leveling doesn't help with missing passives. It doesn't help with the fact that level 10 characters don't have AoE skills and other important skills unlocked.

And if the players are true newbies, Battle Leveling doesn't help with L2P issues and with a lack of CP.

Compared to the other level 10 normal dungeons, nICP/nWGT are on a difficulty level of their own. Of course, that wouldn't bother me if I'm leveling a new alt. But how is a real newbie, who is doing their very first group dungeon, supposed to know that ICP/WGT are very different than Spindleclutch?

The solution, though, isn't to nerf nICP/nWGT. They're already so easy that they don't really help prepare a player for the vet version. But it's also idiotic to open it up to level 10 players. This is one place where the DLC model creates conflicts of interest. ZOS doesn't have the guts to tell their customers, "No, you shouldn't play this cool new content you just bought until you hit a much higher level." So they set the minimum level to 10 and instead feed into these dungeons players who are unprepared and unequipped to deal with something like this.

And that's what ZOS needs to do: Make the minimum level of nICP/nWGT 45, similar to Vaults of Madness.

(Also, it matters a lot which roles are the lowbies. If lowbies are the tank and healer, and you have VR16 DPSs, the dungeon shouldn't be problematic, and the DPS--if they are halfway decent--should be able to carry the group. But if the high-level players are the healer and/or tank and the DPS are the lowbies, then the dungeon will likely be problematic.)

This is actually a great way to indicate the difficulty of those dungeons, although I highly doubt that would be happening.

failkiwib16_ESO

Normal & veteran White Gold Tower from a healers point of view:

Restoration staff:
Siphon Spirit
Blazing Spear
Rapid Regeneration
Healing Springs
Breath of Life
Ultimate: Nova

Dual Wield:
Repentance
Puncturing Sweep
Dark Flare
Radiant Glory
Breath of Life
Ultimate: Ice Comet

Destruction staff (will replace Dual Wield, but only if required to slot Drains and the group is good):
Mystic Orbs
Repentance
Crushing Shock
Elemental Drain
Breath of Life
Ultimate: Ice Comet

Alternative handy good skills to know:
Magicka Detonation morphed to Proximity Detonation (Alliance War Assault skill)

• Extra nice damage to mobs and bosses, requires melee range.

Annulment morphed to Harness Magicka (Light armor skill)

• In case you find a fight difficult and resource consuming, this shield protects you from spells and maintains your magicka very good - so many healers use this for difficult fights.

Backlash morphed to Purifying Light (Templar Dawns Wrath skill)

• Since this is a Dawns Wrath skill, it provides minor sorcery to your group, increasing their spell damage by 5%.

Cleansing Ritual to either morph (Templar Restoring Light skill)

• This is a great HoT and anyone standing inside of it will gain 15% better heals.

Rune Focus morphed to Channeled Focus (Templar Restoring Light skill)

• It provides you good survivability and some magicka sustain, which can come in very handy in bossfights.

Blessing of Protection morphed into Combat Prayer (Restoration Staff skill)

• Cone-heal that provides 8% attack damage bonus to those who get hit by it, so great skill to replace Healing Springs with, in case you are in a group with good dps.

Alternative handy good ultimates to know:
Barrier any morph (Alliance War Support skill)

• Good to cast in low dps groups, where the players take too much damage - you get time to do 2 restoration staff heavy attacks to regain some magicka and then continue healing.

War Horn morphed to Aggressive Horn (Alliance War Assault skill)

• Good to cast in high dps groups, to increase the dps of the Damage Dealers.

Blue champion points:
68 in Elfborn & the rest in Elemental Expert. Leave blessed for trials, you have bigger things to worry about in group dungeons than how high your heals can crit.

---

Always cast 2 x Rapid Regeneration before any fight begins - always cast Siphon Spirit when you see the tank move toward a large enemy, such as a boss or a healer mob.
Always cast 2 Mystic Orbs after a fight, in case someone needs magicka to continue.
Always stay behind the group, so you can cast heals and buffs easier in their direction. Move only into melee range, if both your DD's on the team are melee ranged.
Never stand infront of a boss, always move behind it.
Talk to your group members, find out if they need certain buffs or not. If not, remove and replace with a dps skill.

---

Mobs: tanks usually aggro all the mobs and drag them out of the enemy healers healing circle range - the healer have to CC the enemy healer, while the 2 DD's kill the other mobs, then go back and kill the enemy healer. Get close to the damage dealers and tank to cast a repentance every now and then, when mobs die - so the group can maintain their stamina.
-If the tank don't do this, then just spam Blazing Spear all over the place + healing springs.
-If there are any magicka users in your group, cast a few Mystic orbs into the trash pack, so if anyone is needy of magicka - they can regain some.

I usually spam Siphon Spirit & Elemental Drain on the large enemies, because they're often hard to take down and I want my group to maintain their resources while I also contribute to damage.

Daedroth's: These are hard to take down, and they have an attack where they breathe fire & apply an insanely high dot on the person infront of them - so it's good to start out with casting Siphon Spirit & Elemental Drain, then deal damage till you see the tank's healthbar go down, then start spamming Healing Springs and cast 1 Spear to the tank, if needed spam Breath of Life.

Daedra Spiders - cast healing springs, then go on to Siphon Spirit on the large spiders. Don't get close to these

---

First miniboss:
This guy is ugly, smelly and bad - and he hits really really hard in melee range. So whatever you do, don't get too close to his attacks to hit you and prepare for casting 1-2 spears to the tank if the fight drags out. Don't stand on the red circles on the ground and try to position yourself behind him - if the tank dies repeatedly, tell him to dodge his large attacks.

First boss:
This boss is a bit problematic with low dps in group, so it helps a great deal to maintain Siphon Spirit and Rapid Regeneration so that it's always up.

• Pulls 1 member into a cage - sometimes out of healing range for the healer, so the healer has to run to get close to the boss to heal the member, while he struggles at trying to pick the lock.
• Throws 3 rows of waves of blue hands from the ground, that reflect back once they hit the walls - you can block-cast heals through this phase, and cast Breath of LIfe for every wave and expect people to take damage.
• Ground AoE - don't stay in it, it really hurts... if a stupid DD continue to stand in it, and the boss is above 20% health then let them die - otherwise you'll only waste your magicka.
• Zombies - when these spawn, if you get aggro then go close to the tank or damage dealers, so they can deal with them - and if they don't, kill them with Blazing Spears or Puncturing Sweep ...should do the job

Second boss:
3 Dragonknights - 1 Tank, 1 Damage Dealer, 1 Healer. This fight is messy, but at least these 3 bosses can be Crowd Controlled...

• Kill the Tank first, because he holds a shield over the other 2 ...so the fight gets easier, if he's the first to die. Then kill any of the other 2 bosses.
• Usually healers focus on the Healer, and cast Blazing Spear or Crushing Shock at him everytime he tries to heal one of the other 2 bosses. This crowd-controls him stop him from healing his mates.
• The Healer have an attack, where he goes down on his knee, and spawns a fire-flower that shoots rows of fire on the ground, if you throw a Blazing Spear at him, he will stop the attack.
• Cast a spear or two at the tank, if the fight drags out - because he has to block and bash a lot during this fight, so he will need some stamina.

Second miniboss:
This nasty daedric birdie have an AoE attack, where he attaches AoE to you and your group, so spread out and don't stand on top of eachother when you fight this one - otherwise the AoE will stack and hurt you more.
In general get ready with spamming a little bit of Breath of Life during this fight, because he will throw lots of damage on all of you.

Third boss:
Oooohhh shiny pinion mechanics:
Will draw aggro to anyone who picks up the shiny pinion in middle of the room.
The person who have picked up the pinion will get a heavy dot on them, and the damage from the dot will increase untill someone else picks up the pinion.
When someone else picks up the pinion, the former person gets to keep the dot on them and the new person tanking the boss will also get a dot.
When the pinion opens, every player gets 2 small AoE spawn infront of them and explode, it is easily stepped out of and can be outhealed - but if 2-3 players stack then the AoE's will also stack, so you might end up killing yourselves.
When the boss takes certain amount of damage, it will curl down and make a large red circle around itself, then unleash a shockwave that will reach the borders of the red circle.
When the boss takes enough damage, it will reset the dots and start giving new ones to those who pick up the pinion.
If someone is tanking the boss and dies, the boss will go to a random group member, and the new member have to tank the boss.

Ooooh shiny portals:

• Some portals will spawn, and 1 member in group will get a weird grey cloud around their head - that persons screen will turn Grey and will be able to kill the portals.
• When the boss takes enough damage, and is down to around 45% health - 2 people in the group will get portals.
• If a group member don't kill the portals fast enough, many mobs will spawn out of the portals and the longer the portal is open the more mobs will spawn ... untill an Ogrim spawns, by then it is too late because 1 Ogrim is enough to kill your entire group, because they do a lot of damage.
• If someone with portals die, a random member from the group will get the portals and have to kill them.

Multiple personality issues of the boss:
This boss have 2 types of fire around it and it is very important to pay attention to them:
Orange/Red/Yellow fire:

• The fire around the boss gives very little damage to the person that is close to it.
• It is best for anyone tanking it to stand still, because it makes it an easier target to dps this way. The damage you get is very low and takes no pressure to outheal.

Blue/White fire:

• The fire aound the boss gives insanely high damage, and can not be outhealed for more than 2-3 seconds, and the person who is tanking it will be snared more and more up to 100% immovability.
• The person who is tanking the boss when it has blue flames, have to run around the edges of the room - when the boss snares you till you can no longer run from it, rolldodge 2 times to get away from it.
• Whenever the pinion in the middle is available to a group member, they have to pick it up - because the blue flames will kill the person tanking it if they don't.

How to do this fight:
Usually every group member here slots some ranged attacks, to be able to take down the portals fast. It is also very normal that tanks change their gear and weapon, and put on pure dps gear for this, and any melee Damage Dealers also do the same. Healers have an easy button spam for portal killing: Jesus Beam.

• 1 person will go to middle and pick up the pinion and tank the boss.
• 3 other players will go close to the pinion but 1-2 meters distance from eachother and the pinion, so the small AoE circles don't spawn, and deal damage to the boss.
• Pinion opens - 1 person has to take it, if red circles spawn then wait till they explode and then take the pinion.
• Someone gets grey screen/ portals - this person have to abandon whatever he was doing and kill portals.
• Boss curls up and goes down, makes big red circle and sends out shockwave - it can be blocked, but best to step out of that circle.
• Boss changes color and gets Blue/White fire- person who is tanking it must run, then dodge 2 times to avoid the boss, other group members must pick up the pinion as soon as possible and do this untill the boss turns to Orange/Red/Yellow fire.

-repeat this untill the boss is down to 40% health-

• This time 2 members of the group get grey screen/ portals and have to shut them down:
• If the group have high DPS they can ignore the portals and execute the boss, if they don't then they have to kill all portals and then focus on boss.

-repeat this untill the boss is at 20%-

• nuke the boss with all you have
• ...if the group have so low dps, that you can not kill the boss when it is at 20% execute range of all execute abilities, then your group's dps is too low for group dungeons, and the Damage Dealers must consider to get some set armor, set weapons and learn to press buttons.

Forth boss & last: Molag Kena

• There are 4 ghosts that are doing some magick around the boss, when you kill them they make a big red circle and explode - anyone who stands inside the circle dies. So it is best to keep distance to them.
• Boss goes down on her knees, jumps and makes a shockwave that pushes you all away from her - don't stand too close to the edges because she will cast you into the fire and you die.
• If the dps on the boss is too low, she will spawn a Storm Atronach that will randomly attack 1 group member, snare them till they can not move and drain them of magicka and health - after a few seconds the Storm Atronach will make a big red circle and explode. If the atronach is not dead before it explodes, anyone standing in the circle will die.
• Boss spawns lightning balls all over the room, and they move around - try to avoid them, because they will drain your magicka + health.
• Boss spawns lightning-walls, these walls can be dodged out of, you can put on a shield to survive them, if your spell resistance is high enough you can survive them.
• Boss casts large cone attack - the area infront gets red and if you are in that red area, you have to either block or get out of it, otherwise you get knocked back a long way - often into the flames around the room.
• Boss respawns 4 ghosts again, and you have to kill them all - this time she will jump 2-3 seconds after they are spawned, so go close to middle.
• When the boss has jumped, you have to move away from she will throw some waves of blue fire - you can easier walk in between the waves and not be hit if your distance to the boss is big. If you are hit by more than 3 waves, you get a heavy dot on you, which can be problematic to outheal. So try to avoid that...
• After the blue fire waves are over, the boss will go down on her knees and jump again - and repeat this untill all 4 adds are dead.

How to do this fight:

• 4 adds must be taken down, then the boss can be aggroed and tanked.
• All focus damage on boss, untill a Storm Atronach spawns, then all focus dps on the atronach instead.
• Try to dodge or put on a shield, when lightning wall spawns.
• Try to avoid walking into lightning balls.
• When the boss goes to middle and spawns 4 adds, all run to middle if possible, untill she has jumped - then run away from middle to easier avoid fire-waves.
• Don't stand close to the 4 adds, when they die they instant-kill you if you are inside the red circle.

- repeat this untill boss is at 30% health-

• This time the boss will spawn 2 lightning walls - so don't stand close to middle, because it can be problematic to outheal or avoid the lightning walls ...
• The boss is at execute range, so you can kill it, sometimes new 4 adds spawn if dps is too low ...but repeat this process untill you succeed.

Nax

To anyone that is having trouble with either of these dungeons, normal or vet mode, I would be happy to help and take you through the mechanics in-game. PC EU here, and have earned the "Imperial City Challenger" achievement (no death, speed run, hard mode completed for both dungeons). Add me @stileanima

Ep1kMalware

An easier way to do planar is tank grabs pinion, and hangs out near the pinion with the boss. You do not take any extra damage, just move out of the aoes. This is your free time to dps the boss. There are 8 pinion rotations, 4 orange, and 4 blue.

Pinion1 (orange) tank takes pinion, portals are assigned. Dps boss
Pinion2 (orange) if tank is non dk or has sustain issues,pinion can be alternated. Dps boss
Pinion3 (orange) tank has pinion, dps boss. Boss will splash the ground with fire about this time
Pinion4 (orange)'make sure tank has pinion, dps boss. Again, DO NOT KITE
Pimion5 (blue) boss does another fire splash, portals are assigned. Tank must have pinion before this time. Kite boss
Pinion6(blue) whomever does not have portals takes pinion, kite boss
Pinion7 (blue) somebody, anybody take this pinion, preferably tank, kite boss
Pinion8 (blue) if tank has pinion, leave it. If tank does not take pinion, tank grabs pinion, kite boss

Boss balls up on floor, gives you free time to deal with adds,nor dps boss. Then process starts over at pinion 1. This is pretty much the whole fight. Get everyone in chat. Repeat this list to them before the battle, and call it out. You have only 5 pin ions, with 3k health per pinion phase on normal. If you can't get past this fight, someone in your group has a l2p issue. Call it out, fix the problem, try again, go fight kena.

SwaminoNowlino

Nerf solitaire! I lost the other day and my mom always told me I'd never lose anything because I'm special! This is an outrage!!!

PhatGrimReaper

#nerftheCAREBEARS

failkiwib16_ESO

OP I managed to finally edit my post a bit, I hope it is of use to you. Let me know if you have any questions.

kylewwefan

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

OP I managed to finally edit my post a bit, I hope it is of use to you. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks Kiwi, but after a few more wipes over the weekend, I've decided to not go back into there with randoms anymore. It's just too hard and frustrating.

Mr.Hmm

On the 2nd bosses your tank can aggro both Micella and Cordius while the rest of the team kills Otho.

After Otho dies they can go on Cordius and lastly Micella.

I did WGT with randoms alot, ofc i am the tank always since i am on my tank char.