Gap Closers - Then and Now

Cinnamon_Spider

There were changes to how gap closers work in a recent patch. They apply a 200% movement speed debuff to the target. When you're targeted by one or more gap closer abilities at a time, you cannot move, attack, or defend yourself. Often you are stuck in place until the player gap closing you connects, which leaves you open to other attacks and usually results in a death.

Before this change, combat felt more fluid. You could apply a shield, block, dodge, or even use an offensive ability. It did not mean imminent death as it does now.

This change, along with the nerfs to dodge, streak, and block negatively affect combat in PVP. I've spent so many days and nights playing with friends that are now deciding to leave the game because of how frustrating combat has become in the more recent patches. They could deal with the bugs, but the bugs compounded with these changes are what made up their minds.

I've compiled some clips from before and after the 200% speed reduction was added. @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Wrobel which of these two versions of the game would you prefer to play?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAu-mYxKlEU

kit_sune

As a newer player, I agree things need to return to the way they were

Suru

Will always miss the old days, but the gap closer problem seems like its only getting worse lol

TheLaw

If only ZOS put more than 5 minutes of testing into their garbage changes, we'd probably not see so many. A little common sense would do them some good. Well, a lot of common sense...

Joy_Division

Want to see something funny?

Do a search on "gap closers".

Count how many complaints there are about gap closers being useless, ineffective, and need to be fixed (Hint: you are going to have to click a lot of pages to find one).

The count how many threads complain about the stun-root-silence snare (Hint: 7 on the first page of results).

Why do these forums exists if ZoS doesn't even bother to heed our feedback?

Alucardo

Perfect depiction of a before and after. People complaining about it is one thing, but to see it in action like that is a real eye-opener, and I hope ZOS takes a close look at it.
I have no idea why the snare was ever introduced. It's almost as stupid as AOE caps, if not stupider.

BuggeX

i guess this was a fix to the earlyer anoing stuck after gap closer bug....
like i said in ohter threads about dks chain, camo hunter etc Bugs, zos is to lazy or not able to fix the root Problems and try to work arround of it, but well they brake more than they fix.

imredneckson

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

There were changes to how gap closers work in a recent patch. They apply a 200% movement speed debuff to the target. When you're targeted by one or more gap closer abilities at a time, you cannot move, attack, or defend yourself. Often you are stuck in place until the player gap closing you connects, which leaves you open to other attacks and usually results in a death.

Before this change, combat felt more fluid. You could apply a shield, block, dodge, or even use an offensive ability. It did not mean imminent death as it does now.

This change, along with the nerfs to dodge, streak, and block negatively affect combat in PVP. I've spent so many days and nights playing with friends that are now deciding to leave the game because of how frustrating combat has become in the more recent patches. They could deal with the bugs, but the bugs compounded with these changes are what made up their minds.

I've compiled some clips from before and after the 200% speed reduction was added. @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Wrobel which of these two versions of the game would you prefer to play?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAu-mYxKlEU

This I completely agree with I have three NBs and when I see someone just spamming ambush and nothing but I just shack my head in sadness. This needs to be fixed

Cathexis

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@Wrobel

WATCH VIDEO PLEASE!!!!!!

OP is 1000% right.

I support this thread.

Cathexis

Seriously it has completely destroyed solo play entirely in PvP.

I used to be able to solo pressure seige lines.

This evening I tried to take on a seige line 3 times in a row solo and was point blank slaughtered without any resistance every time.

Ankael07

lmao now theyre considering turning the 0.50 second stun into a 0.75 second 60% snare while people can spam these abilities in less than half of a second

acw37162

Nice vid, very solid work.

timidobserver

I can understand when something is bugged or not working as intended. However, it is pretty concerning that the current state of gap closers is considered working as intended. The combat team actually did this on purpose.

BuggeX

DK isnt even able to use leap when gapclosered

Spacemonkey

I'll play the Zos fanboy here - but I blame lack of communication on this. I have a feeling it may be related to those tweaks and adjustments they are applying in attempts to fix lag in cyro?

From a gameplay code perspective it does make slightly sense if the engine was struggling animating a gap closer onto people that were miles away from where the gap closer ends and stuff. Maybe....

One way or another, this sounds like a stealth nerf/tweak as I haven't had a chance to play this week yet and have no clue what this is all about (can't watch vid from work) - so TELLING US (and the why) ABOUT IT - would help a lot.

@Wrobel -_-

Cinnamon_Spider

Kas wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Capraid wrote: »

All i saw was a broken class QQ'n because they no longer can have 50k + shields and now die to 3 or more players. I really feel for you man it must suck to play a sorc these days.

Then you didn't watch the video, or you'd see my Templar and another clip with only one shield (no resto or harness magic). This isn't something that only affects Sorcerers.

This has nothing to do with shields and is simply about improving combat and movement.

to be fair, you have annulment instead of harness on your templar and you have balzing shield + healing ward xD
other than that, you're completely right and I fully support his thread.

I was pointing out that this isn't a Sorcerer QQ post and I included two classes and multiple builds in the video. Dampen Magic wouldn't even offer any protection against stamina based gap closers.

I don't understand why you two would want to derail this subject in an attempt to complain about shields.

MrGigglypants

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Capraid wrote: »

All i saw was a broken class QQ'n because they no longer can have 50k + shields and now die to 3 or more players. I really feel for you man it must suck to play a sorc these days.

Then you didn't watch the video, or you'd see my Templar and another clip with only one shield (no resto or harness magic). This isn't something that only affects Sorcerers.

This has nothing to do with shields and is simply about improving combat and movement.

Movement or combat though because without the snare bolt would just waltz away from snares. I think the snare prevents outright speed escapes which is necessary.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

i fully support this thread

Toast_STS

I support Deltron!

Apoxsee

I believe what we are seeing is what we asked for... Let me explain. Pre IC there was a huge issue with prema dodge rollers and nothing connecting with them except a few skills. IC came and still there were complains of skills not connecting with dodge rollers. Now I believe these changes that ZOS put in are a direct result of people's issue with those problems and how ZOS choose to fix it.

I am not condoning the the fix or these previously "broke dodge mechanic" but this is yet again a situation of " be careful what you ask for".

I agree with the OP and it was a great vid to display the difference between then and now.

Takllin

Obvious troll is obvious.

Also ignorance is bliss.

Great video btw, it's horrid what they've done to gap closers. Revert these changes please!

Asmael

"Rapid maneuvers + cloak spam on a magblade (+ purge if really necessary) is the ultimate escaping combo!" (I didn't have shadow image by then).

"...Wait a second, why do I stop moving? Rapids up, CC immunity up, what the..." *DEAD*

You can now fix this Zos.

Properly this time, thank you very much.

Alcast

BuggeX wrote: »

DK isnt even able to use leap when gapclosered

Yep I noticed that too, you can not do anything at all most of the times. If you get ambush spammed I can mostly not even break free....lol...

and rly...I get out of stealth for like 2 second and 1203489948925890435898t93842098092859048539408534908594038590438590348590438538530958340958439058349058439058349085903485 NB jump me instantly

I wonder how many NB per Square-meter there are

coolermh

Nobody even asked for gap closer changes...they just through it in. I don't understand what they could have possibly been thinking.

RoamingRiverElk

Agree 100% with this thread.

People thought this was a BUG until they learned it was an "intended feature". Change it back to how it was before, no snare either. Just. Change. It. Back. To. The. Way. It. Was.

caeliusstarbreaker

The main mistake being you think they play their own game

ZOS_AlanG

Several posts have been removed for being off topic or inflammatory, as well as all ensuing discussion from those posts.

It's fine to debate or disagree, but it's important to keep the discussion civil, and any criticism constructive. As always, please be mindful of the forum rules.

timidobserver

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Agree 100% with this thread.

People thought this was a BUG until they learned it was an "intended feature". Change it back to how it was before, no snare either. Just. Change. It. Back. To. The. Way. It. Was.

More important to me is the mentality of the person that thought this was a good idea. As long as someone that that thinks spammable unavoidable cc that bypasses all cc protection is a great idea is allowed to continue making decisions, we are going to have more unrequested silly, mechanics in the future.

MissBizz

I have a question.

Is what you're showing above (the NEW version) what is supposedly explained here?

Wrobel wrote: »

Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.

To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.

Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2528624/#Comment_2528624 (December 2015)

Or is the above what they plan to change the gap closers to work like? (instead of how they currently do)

[EDIT] I ask because if I understand correctly.. they do already plan to change how gap closers currently work. (But doesn't sound like it will change to "how it was")

Cinnamon_Spider

MissBizz wrote: »

I have a question.

Is what you're showing above (the NEW version) what is supposedly explained here?

Wrobel wrote: »

Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.

To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.

Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2528624/#Comment_2528624 (December 2015)

Or is the above what they plan to change the gap closers to work like? (instead of how they currently do)

[EDIT] I ask because if I understand correctly.. they do already plan to change how gap closers currently work. (But doesn't sound like it will change to "how it was")

Yes (apparently I got the number wrong - oops), but that change is going to be just as bad. For example, Crit Rush does more damage based on distance while the other morph adds in a snare. Anyone using Stampede will just respec to Crit Rush and get the best of both worlds.

There has to be a better way, but honestly nearly anything will be better than how it is now.

Also, Why should the person gap closing have a 100% chance to hit? There are no other skills that have this chance.

danno8

It's like the developers have made connecting with the gap closer the number one important aspect of using the skill, at the expense of quality gameplay.

Gap closers are not just about damage, they are there to get you in range for other skills too. It's not paramount that they put you nose-to-nose with your opponent.

If they want them to connect so badly, just have the player heat seek like projectiles do.

edit: 2:43 in the video is why I haven't stepped foot in Cyro for over a month. Only difference is instead of Crit Rush and Stampede they are mostly all Ambush/Lotus.