Gap Closers - Then and Now

revonine

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

I have a question.

Is what you're showing above (the NEW version) what is supposedly explained here?

Wrobel wrote: »

Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.

To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.

Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2528624/#Comment_2528624 (December 2015)

Or is the above what they plan to change the gap closers to work like? (instead of how they currently do)

[EDIT] I ask because if I understand correctly.. they do already plan to change how gap closers currently work. (But doesn't sound like it will change to "how it was")

Yes (apparently I got the number wrong - oops), but that change is going to be just as bad. For example, Crit Rush does more damage based on distance while the other morph adds in a snare. Anyone using Stampede will just respec to Crit Rush and get the best of both worlds.

There has to be a better way, but honestly nearly anything will be better than how it is now.

Also, Why should the person gap closing have a 100% chance to hit? There are no other skills that have this chance.

Well people use stampede so their opponent is snare and easier to land a WB on afterward but will the .75 snare be enough to ensure a WB hit? If so then yeah stampede obsolete.

Issues with Lotus Fan too. Will the snare from Lotus stack with the gap closer snare? That would be OP as hell. If it doesn't stack then the snare component of Lotus would be kinda useless.

I REALLY hope ZOS tests this properally and listens to our feedback after this hits the PTS. This feels like it's gonna be an ill thought out fix that will create more issues than it solves.

Theshebz

Your now vids are you getting teamed by 4+ people and wasting all your magica on streak...if you would have actually fought back you could have stood a chance

Cinnamon_Spider

Theshebz wrote: »

Your now vids are you getting teamed by 4+ people and wasting all your magica on streak...if you would have actually fought back you could have stood a chance

Right. Because when Zazeer told his group "There's Cinnamon! Get her!" I could have just stood my ground and fought the whole GoS group.

GreenSoup2HoT

Can you please make a video with dodge roll if you have the clip's. Back in the day being a nightblade was also more fluid and fun. You would be rolling around kiting... now it's just a lock down and your dead.

(Preferably a video without engine guardian since it was the true culprit for perma rolling and perma blocking.)

I was fine playing against rolling players and perma blocker's. I also miss hasty retreat and speed combo. I miss bolt escape. These element's were way more fun. I know it's a balance thing but the game's getting stale and frustrating.

With the way gap closer's are, you might as well forget using terrain to line of sight. Your not moving anyway's.


Great video @Cinnamon_Spider

Mojmir

Id take a loading screen over that bs anyday

Teargrants

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Can you please make a video with dodge roll if you have the clip's. Back in the day being a nightblade was also more fluid and fun. You would be rolling around kiting... now it's just a lock down and your dead.

(Preferably a video without engine guardian since it was the true culprit for perma rolling and perma blocking.)

I was fine playing against rolling players and perma blocker's. I also miss hasty retreat and speed combo. I miss bolt escape. These element's were way more fun. I know it's a balance thing but the game's getting stale and frustrating.

With the way gap closer's are, you might as well forget using terrain to line of sight. Your not moving anyway's.


Great video @Cinnamon_Spider

Here you go.

Roll dodging then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUs6IM9YMLg

Roll dodging now:

Jsmalls

This. So. Much. This. Please Zos reconsider, I'm tired of being killed by 2 Nightblades ambushing me, or getting crit rushed to death because I physically cannot fight back.

There has to be a way for you to implement a way gap closers do there job without completely disabling the target...

I shouldn't be forced to dodge roll to return responsiveness of my character, Magicka builds have low stamina as is, and its really needed for CC breaking or death.

EdTerra

gap closer hit you :
healing ward -> Nope
healing ward -> Nope
healing ward -> Nope
Dead

Thx for this gap closer nerf

Seriously, I'm a solo players for 99% of the time I could deal with ult regen nerf, block nerf, wb spams, infinite regen, vamp nerf but this new gap closer system is just out of control especially when everyone running stardmina builds

Cinnamon_Spider

@Teargrants We should start making throwback Thursday videos.

Teargrants

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

@Teargrants We should start making throwback Thursday videos.

Up next, remember when Blazing Shield could 1 shot you and Templars had Blinding Flashes?

cdobratz

I'm still kind of new to the game (started in 1.6) but why was the 200% snare added? Were the gap closers missing?
Why not remove the snares from gap closers, then change the damage to a minimal aoe? That way you still get close enough to where you have "closed the gap," and you still get some dps out of it. Just my two cents.

Lord_Hev

Gap closers were fine before, I never had issues on my DK shield-charging people. Gap-closers were always reliable in a manner that made sense, and was immersive.



The way gap-closers work now is broken, it ruins my quality of play, and it breaks my immersion.

BuggeX

why not put a debuff on any gap closer which lower the dmg off the next 2 attacks for 75%?
anyone who would abuse gapcloser will kill nothing

LegendaryChef

Just another thing zos implemented that absolutely nobody asked for. Let's have a think about it, they nerfed almost all escape abilities to the ground by introducing the stacking cost and THEN decided that on top of that we now cannot move while trying to escape? What ? Am I missing something?

Every single thing they attempt to fix they take it to the next level of stupidity and break something else which nobody asked for. So tired of this becoming a reoccurring theme and just another kick in the ribs for all players still hoping to get something good out of this sinking ship of a game.

Tankqull

Alucardo wrote: »

Perfect depiction of a before and after. People complaining about it is one thing, but to see it in action like that is a real eye-opener, and I hope ZOS takes a close look at it.
I have no idea why the snare was ever introduced. It's almost as stupid as AOE caps, if not stupider.

not really if you look close into his actions you see that the root is applied in his "then" video parts, the difference actually is people are aware of that issue abusing it to its maximum in the "now" part as the actual implementation of the root is way back arround the lightning patch...

Cinnamon_Spider

Tankqull wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Perfect depiction of a before and after. People complaining about it is one thing, but to see it in action like that is a real eye-opener, and I hope ZOS takes a close look at it.
I have no idea why the snare was ever introduced. It's almost as stupid as AOE caps, if not stupider.

not really if you look close into his actions you see that the root is applied in his "then" video parts, the difference actually is people are aware of that issue abusing it to its maximum in the "now" part as the actual implementation of the root is way back arround the lightning patch...

Her and you're wrong if that's what you think you saw in the older clips.

BuggeX

the root patch was intrudec with IC btw, you could get stuck in Invasion when the target died/moved/rolldoged while you charged them, it never happend since IC so i guess it was the "fix"

RAGUNAnoOne

BuggeX wrote: »

the root patch was intrudec with IC btw, you could get stuck in Invasion when the target died/moved/rolldoged while you charged them, it never happend since IC so i guess it was the "fix"

Then fix or nuke invasion instead of breaking the game.

CtrlAltDlt

It's simple, they wanted to give 'casuals' and pvp newbs an easy iWin button. Why else would there be aoe caps and this gap closer ***? There was a time when this game took actual player skill. RIP

rfennell_ESO

@Cinnamon_Spider

Great example of the issue.

I've seen plenty of the nonsense and those willing to exploit the hell out of it (see end of your video for instance haha).

The other thing I've noticed regarding it is that there is a way to negate range checks on it. In the "old" way of gap closer operation you could actually avoid people trying to use it (or dodge roll through the obvious users of it). Now, if they mashed their macro they will travel a ridiculous distance to hit you.

I regularly see people critical charge in from out of range, and quite a bit out of range of even spell casts.

That compounding with the obvious problem of the lockout has become a real "do I want to even play this game" issue.

I get that what you see positionally isn't always 100% what there is due to lag or latency. But I've seen these talentless hacks charge in from ridiculous distances and I see it regularly, it's gotten so you can't possibly get away from "certain" people no matter how you outmaneuver them.

Funnest part is the critical charge from way the hell out of range instantly macroed into dragonleap or light attack-wrecking blow and either having no animation.

Dalsinthus

Stamina NB here. I am generally against nerfing abilities, but this really needs to be fixed. The lockdown of these abilities is one of the first things to make me question if I want to keep playing this game.

Stigant

Snare and Immobilize immunity doesn't even work against this gaploser nonsense ... making Shuffle and retreating Manuever absolutely usless ... yeat another broken thing about it

Dalsinthus

It also seems like more players are becoming aware of the situation and exploiting it. I've been hit with this inescapable lock down a ton this week on the Xbox One NA server.

ThePonzzz

Oddly enough, a large portion of players seem to be able to avoid this root/stun that is the problem. I still witness a lot of people not affected by it.

Waffennacht

I haven't had anyone say I was wrong yet, but I did read in a thread that the stun/snare was added because previously if the gap closer missed the target there could be bugs/coding errors.

I had heard it was introduced to prevent bugs/exploits, not people complaining so mucb (though it could easily have been a motivator)

If this is the case I can see why it happens (though I hate it)

I would love for ZoS to comment on the intent of the gap closer problem.

Cinbri

Can't believe that some days ago something worked better than now. Oh, wait, mostly everything worked.

Lord-Otto

Great video, Cinnamon!
This stuff needs to go!

themdogesbite

"Crap, we have nothing to add to our patch notes! Come up with something quick!"

"How about adding a 200% speed reduction on the target when somebody use a gapcloser!"

WRX

.... lol

Saw a zos tag on this, thought it might be something good. NOPE. Just your friend neighborhood ZoSman coming to save the flame war.

Video pretty much sums up the whole thing.

aLi3nZ

It sux and I want it back how it was. If I get hit by this when in a tunnel in ic by multiple players. There is nothing I can do. Nothing works. I hit the buttons, nothing happens then I'm dead. In an open area there is still a chance streak can work out though.