To all the nerf cloak threads, I as a nightblade will agree

TheLaw

Is this a serious post? This is the kind of garbage Zenimax would probably do.

tennant94

leepalmer95 wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

There is no way to balance cloak in this game. The issue with it is it makes you invisible, people can't see you. How do you fix that I hear you ask? You can't. Unless you remove the invisibility effect which wouldn't make any sense and the skill wouldn't exist. Buff counters or make counters more readily available is the only solution to it.

Add an increase cost like cloak/stop magicka regen when cloaking etc.

I don't think that would 'fix' it tbh. It would just make nightblades angry. Also if that happened I would like to see a cost increase to wrecking blow and gap closers.

Barlthump

Master_Kas wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

You seem to think Stamblades are the problem which is wrong. I'm a stam blade with 9k max magicka, I cloak at most 2 times.

That means you don't even know how to play your class, or you are most likely spreading disinformation because you don't want to show things as they actually are. Plus, I don't have issues about 5-6 k concealed weapons attacks, but 10k surprise attacks are a problem for everyone.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS AS A STAMBLADE "OMG I CAN ONLY CLOAK 2 TIMES", this comes from another post about Nightblades:

---

"Cloak, without any reduction, costs around 3500 magicka and lasts 2.9 seconds. You can easily get to 1200 magicka regen with drinks.

Let's pretend you have a small pool of 9000 magicka (that means NO prismatics), 0 CP in magician, 0 light armor pieces, 0 cost reduction glyphs and you never break your cloak:
--Without potions; X=time to run OOM in seconds
(3500/2,9)X = 9000+(1200/2)X | X= 14,8s | 14,8s/2,9s= (5,1) 5 Cloaks without going out of stealth
--Now after a V15 tri-stat potion when you are OOM, but still invisible (7391 magicka+major intellect); Y=time added from a potion
(3500/2,9)Y =7391+(1200*1,2/2)Y | Y=15,2s |
Total time spent being invisible= X+Y = (14,8+12,2)s = 27 seconds of TOTAL INVISIBILITY [which means 9 cloaks (9,31)]

Now, just to compare.. Try to streak or roll dodge for 27 seconds with your MAIN (not secondary) resource pool, even using drinks"
I don't think anyone could, even with drinks.

---

So, am I still a fool that spreads disinformation, or you are?

Anyways, a change like that would NOT nerf your escape, that would just prevent cloak to be spammable for several times: you would just need a slightly bigger pool in order to cloak those 4-5 times, get line of sight and regen your magicka while not in cloak

P.S. I would honestly rather seeing cloak tweaked in the way I proposed and detection potions being removed from the game.

You have to add in how many times the cloak fails due to aoe (tornados, caltrops, sap, jabs, yes even jabs can take you out of cloak, piercing mark, radiant magelight, detection pots, streak, encase, talons if close range, volatile armor, the list goes on and on) and consider that all nb's dont use regen drinks either since most NB's seem to be pretty glass specced (probably because it is the rouge class) with little sustain.

Edit:

What the person under me wrote to, I forgot since I'm tired. That's if you ONLY use cloak and it does NOT get countered, then you can stay invis yes if you run regen drinks.

If you use relentless focus for damagebuff, fear as a CC, cloak to purge/cleanse dots and to reposition double take/mirage for evasion and speedbuff. Those are not cheap skills to spam as a stamina build

Thank you for posting what I said. My post got deleted by ZoS. I apologise for raging though.

Yeah, If we ask stamblades only use Cloak then it would be okay, but the issue is we have to also use our buffs and fear, now I counter propose instead of making quirky remarks like streaking for 27 secs, try casting relentless focus, fear and hit cloak. You probably won't be able to cloak again. So assuming the first cloak you use gets countered, you will have no magicka to actually use Cloak again for at least 3-4 secs while your magicka regenerates. Now for as for Sorcs, they can continually spam streak even with the streak nerf. And please don't come here and lie to me cause I've seen them do it, people boast 45k magicka and 100 points into bastion and magician. So please don't come and tell us that we have separate bars altogether for using our buffs and CC and should be happy.

Barlthump

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Nerf people that don't know how to gear or counter properly.

These people are getting out of hand! Seriously, you know something is OP when everyone is doing it.

yea gear... even with 30k armor you will be wrecked by 8k snips.... make sens

Learn to gear my friend. Unless you are a vamp, properly geared nobody will hit you for that much. I have a V3 Templar in 2 heavy 5 light and NEVER see any single ability for over 8k from stealth. And nothing hits for over 5-6k out of stealth. It sounds like to me you expect crit damage to magically reduce somehow without having to gear for it.

People need to learn to gear properly for pvp.

Lets be honest, if ANYONE dies from 1 second cast spammed snipes with a travel time, they have more pressing issues.

this 3 hits wasnt even out of stealth

i guess you Need to open you damn eys.

this was with 26k armor.

and btw, i have 3 pices inpenetrabnle and 50 cps into reduce crit

So you are angry that you took 2 surprise attacks and a wrecking blow plus a number of dots on you to die while you healed for 197 a tick? I would've dodge rolled after the first SA used a heal on myself and continued fighting but it seems like you made no effort to heal yourself. You have proxy det so I'm assuming you're a magicka class, healing ward? Mutagen? I see none of those in your combat log. I mean look at the recount, you did 126k damage but only healed for 7k while taking 39k damage, seems about right. How much punishment fo you expect to take? 100k damage to you before you fall just cause you got 26k armor impen? But I'm sorry, most people use one mace and one dagger so they have armor pen, plus SA Casts major breach so you can take damage and it seems you did for quite a bit there but you didn't heal up and continue.

Knootewoot

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sometimes it's so effective I feel bad for them, they don't even try to fight back, they just run like a wild animal in panic desperate to find a way out.

I spilled by coffee when I read this. But it's true

Derra

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Already forgot why i came here.

NB wanting a reliable escape when they already have the best escape tools in the game. I chuckled.

Cyrodiil is going to be a well-laid table of juice NB ap cupcakes who never learned to play their class properly once cloak gets "rebalanced".

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak is annoying as hell, yes, but people have learnt now how to counter it. So just leave it alone.

Sincerely,
Not a Nightblade.

I love you xD

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.

So what can a nightblade without damageshields (stamina nb) and without cloak do?

It's like a sorcerer without shields. But alrighty derra upload some 1vX videos where noone counters your cloak in this group meta we have. I'm waiting patiently

Once again, a stamina nightblade. Not a permacloaking magicka nightblade who can spam healingward and/or harness, purge and teleport shade all day long. On top of concealed weapon which gives you 25% sneak speed boost, doubletake and perhaps even vampire? I'll give you that, if I want to avoid fights I can probably do that all day long on my magicka nightblade but that means not engaging alot and its quite boring.

Or a long range sniper/ganker build with camohunter ganking squishy targets from 30+ meters away and never leaving stealth, even then I die. And I'm not talking about duels either but open pvp.

You seem to know it all about a spec you never played (atleast not for longer periods of time as I've never seen you playing stamblade)

Try stamina nightblade playing melee range and see how well your cloak saves you from all the counters aviable.

You can not make claims about a skill without using it to it´s full potential. It´s like a stamina sorc complaining they can only bolt two times and their shield is scaling with magica.

It´s a magica skill and you have to balance that magica skill taking into account it gets used on a highly optimised magica build tailored to work with it.

I´m sorry but stamina NB has nothing to do with the argument.

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.


This was what I was replying to, was no talk about magicka or stamina nightblades. I just laid down my opinion/reply since you claim I need to L2P

Keep that in mind before you or others want cloak nerfed just because magicka nbs can permacloak. And it has everything to do with the argument since it's now basiclly our primary defense since dodgeroll got the nerf.

And why doesn't it have to do with the argument just because it uses magicka? We already had roll nerf, I don't want a cloaknerf aswell so I have every right to put my arguments about it. You said noone besides other nbs can counter your cloak, you forgot to state why, because you're playing a magicka nb and can run purge, and have insane cloaked speed.

@Aunatar Don't be so sure. Sometimes I don't have room on my bar for both rapid manouvers and shuffle (for dodge chance + major expedition speedboost) so I slot double take. Also with doubletake you can sprint alot since it consumes magicka, saving your stamina for running/rolling ^^ Also it's an assissination skilline, you gain more critchance by having it slotted aswell. I slot rapid manouvers mostly when playing in group to remove roots/snares for allies, when I run solo I use doubletake

And yes, if they somehow manage to get a proper nerf, that there is no cost increase/regen penalty when the cloak fails they can add it. But knowing zos, how do you think that will work out?

Thats it - i don´t use concealed btw. No need for it.

My argument is cloak is absolutely brokenly op when used on a magica NB that also happens to use shade.

That´s why i claim your opinion on cloak is flawed/biased as you happen to use it on a build not optimised to use it. If it were only for stamina sorcs bolt escape would never ever have been nerfed even once.
Your spec choice limits the use of cloak for your build - that´s why i´m saying: You have to look at the skill when used to it´s full potential.

Docmandu

davey1107 wrote: »

People hate cloak because it's being used ENTIRELY AS DESIGNED. Nightblades are assassins - they're easy to kill if you can find them,

You obviously haven't run into too many smart magicka NBs...

leepalmer95

Barlthump wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

You seem to think Stamblades are the problem which is wrong. I'm a stam blade with 9k max magicka, I cloak at most 2 times.

That means you don't even know how to play your class, or you are most likely spreading disinformation because you don't want to show things as they actually are. Plus, I don't have issues about 5-6 k concealed weapons attacks, but 10k surprise attacks are a problem for everyone.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS AS A STAMBLADE "OMG I CAN ONLY CLOAK 2 TIMES", this comes from another post about Nightblades:

---

"Cloak, without any reduction, costs around 3500 magicka and lasts 2.9 seconds. You can easily get to 1200 magicka regen with drinks.

Let's pretend you have a small pool of 9000 magicka (that means NO prismatics), 0 CP in magician, 0 light armor pieces, 0 cost reduction glyphs and you never break your cloak:
--Without potions; X=time to run OOM in seconds
(3500/2,9)X = 9000+(1200/2)X | X= 14,8s | 14,8s/2,9s= (5,1) 5 Cloaks without going out of stealth
--Now after a V15 tri-stat potion when you are OOM, but still invisible (7391 magicka+major intellect); Y=time added from a potion
(3500/2,9)Y =7391+(1200*1,2/2)Y | Y=15,2s |
Total time spent being invisible= X+Y = (14,8+12,2)s = 27 seconds of TOTAL INVISIBILITY [which means 9 cloaks (9,31)]

Now, just to compare.. Try to streak or roll dodge for 27 seconds with your MAIN (not secondary) resource pool, even using drinks"
I don't think anyone could, even with drinks.

---

So, am I still a fool that spreads disinformation, or you are?

Anyways, a change like that would NOT nerf your escape, that would just prevent cloak to be spammable for several times: you would just need a slightly bigger pool in order to cloak those 4-5 times, get line of sight and regen your magicka while not in cloak

P.S. I would honestly rather seeing cloak tweaked in the way I proposed and detection potions being removed from the game.

You have to add in how many times the cloak fails due to aoe (tornados, caltrops, sap, jabs, yes even jabs can take you out of cloak, piercing mark, radiant magelight, detection pots, streak, encase, talons if close range, volatile armor, the list goes on and on) and consider that all nb's dont use regen drinks either since most NB's seem to be pretty glass specced (probably because it is the rouge class) with little sustain.

Edit:

What the person under me wrote to, I forgot since I'm tired. That's if you ONLY use cloak and it does NOT get countered, then you can stay invis yes if you run regen drinks.

If you use relentless focus for damagebuff, fear as a CC, cloak to purge/cleanse dots and to reposition double take/mirage for evasion and speedbuff. Those are not cheap skills to spam as a stamina build

Thank you for posting what I said. My post got deleted by ZoS. I apologise for raging though.

Yeah, If we ask stamblades only use Cloak then it would be okay, but the issue is we have to also use our buffs and fear, now I counter propose instead of making quirky remarks like streaking for 27 secs, try casting relentless focus, fear and hit cloak. You probably won't be able to cloak again. So assuming the first cloak you use gets countered, you will have no magicka to actually use Cloak again for at least 3-4 secs while your magicka regenerates. Now for as for Sorcs, they can continually spam streak even with the streak nerf. And please don't come here and lie to me cause I've seen them do it, people boast 45k magicka and 100 points into bastion and magician. So please don't come and tell us that we have separate bars altogether for using our buffs and CC and should be happy.

Right... proper stamblades have magicka regen too.. enough so they can comforably cast fear/cloak

Sorc can not streak endlessly 6-7 from full magicka is the limit. Thats from full and then your left with no magicka at all which means no shields = dead.

Why do you need to use fear/cloak/relentless focus at once? Do stamblades even use relentless focus?, if there feared you have no need to use cloak even after a few seconds after they break free because they'll be healing etc...

Barlthump

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

You seem to think Stamblades are the problem which is wrong. I'm a stam blade with 9k max magicka, I cloak at most 2 times.

That means you don't even know how to play your class, or you are most likely spreading disinformation because you don't want to show things as they actually are. Plus, I don't have issues about 5-6 k concealed weapons attacks, but 10k surprise attacks are a problem for everyone.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS AS A STAMBLADE "OMG I CAN ONLY CLOAK 2 TIMES", this comes from another post about Nightblades:

---

"Cloak, without any reduction, costs around 3500 magicka and lasts 2.9 seconds. You can easily get to 1200 magicka regen with drinks.

Let's pretend you have a small pool of 9000 magicka (that means NO prismatics), 0 CP in magician, 0 light armor pieces, 0 cost reduction glyphs and you never break your cloak:
--Without potions; X=time to run OOM in seconds
(3500/2,9)X = 9000+(1200/2)X | X= 14,8s | 14,8s/2,9s= (5,1) 5 Cloaks without going out of stealth
--Now after a V15 tri-stat potion when you are OOM, but still invisible (7391 magicka+major intellect); Y=time added from a potion
(3500/2,9)Y =7391+(1200*1,2/2)Y | Y=15,2s |
Total time spent being invisible= X+Y = (14,8+12,2)s = 27 seconds of TOTAL INVISIBILITY [which means 9 cloaks (9,31)]

Now, just to compare.. Try to streak or roll dodge for 27 seconds with your MAIN (not secondary) resource pool, even using drinks"
I don't think anyone could, even with drinks.

---

So, am I still a fool that spreads disinformation, or you are?

Anyways, a change like that would NOT nerf your escape, that would just prevent cloak to be spammable for several times: you would just need a slightly bigger pool in order to cloak those 4-5 times, get line of sight and regen your magicka while not in cloak

P.S. I would honestly rather seeing cloak tweaked in the way I proposed and detection potions being removed from the game.

You have to add in how many times the cloak fails due to aoe (tornados, caltrops, sap, jabs, yes even jabs can take you out of cloak, piercing mark, radiant magelight, detection pots, streak, encase, talons if close range, volatile armor, the list goes on and on) and consider that all nb's dont use regen drinks either since most NB's seem to be pretty glass specced (probably because it is the rouge class) with little sustain.

Edit:

What the person under me wrote to, I forgot since I'm tired. That's if you ONLY use cloak and it does NOT get countered, then you can stay invis yes if you run regen drinks.

If you use relentless focus for damagebuff, fear as a CC, cloak to purge/cleanse dots and to reposition double take/mirage for evasion and speedbuff. Those are not cheap skills to spam as a stamina build

Thank you for posting what I said. My post got deleted by ZoS. I apologise for raging though.

Yeah, If we ask stamblades only use Cloak then it would be okay, but the issue is we have to also use our buffs and fear, now I counter propose instead of making quirky remarks like streaking for 27 secs, try casting relentless focus, fear and hit cloak. You probably won't be able to cloak again. So assuming the first cloak you use gets countered, you will have no magicka to actually use Cloak again for at least 3-4 secs while your magicka regenerates. Now for as for Sorcs, they can continually spam streak even with the streak nerf. And please don't come here and lie to me cause I've seen them do it, people boast 45k magicka and 100 points into bastion and magician. So please don't come and tell us that we have separate bars altogether for using our buffs and CC and should be happy.

Right... proper stamblades have magicka regen too.. enough so they can comforably cast fear/cloak

Sorc can not streak endlessly 6-7 from full magicka is the limit. Thats from full and then your left with no magicka at all which means no shields = dead.

Why do you need to use fear/cloak/relentless focus at once? Do stamblades even use relentless focus?, if there feared you have no need to use cloak even after a few seconds after they break free because they'll be healing etc...

All valid points, and yes I have good magicka recovery, 1024 if I'm not wrong, but what you stated above is for a 1v1 kind of fight, I'm talking about the fights which have at least 2 or more people, you won't necessarily be able to fear both people at the same time so multiple uses of fear are needed and yes relentless focus is a buff I run so that I can get more stam recovery cause 10% is huge and will allow me to put more CP into warlord instead of mooncalf. And the point on Sorcs, I said 6-7 streaks, but I didn't say they turn and fight. If a sorc ever uses 6-7 streaks it's almost impossible to get near him cause he will streak thru you causing you to get stunned, but thats in extreme cases. But he can still manage to pull of 6-7 streaks cause he uses his main resource pool as his escape tool. And it will be the same case with magicka nightblades as it will be their main pool which they use for escape. With the streak nerf I'm pretty sure stam sorcs felt the pinch more then magicka sorcs and it would've hurt them much more.

ozmorgudduth

Barlthump wrote: »

All valid points, and yes I have good magicka recovery, 1024 if I'm not wrong, but what you stated above is for a 1v1 kind of fight, I'm talking about the fights which have at least 2 or more people, you won't necessarily be able to fear both people at the same time so multiple uses of fear are needed and yes relentless focus is a buff I run so that I can get more stam recovery cause 10% is huge and will allow me to put more CP into warlord instead of mooncalf. And the point on Sorcs, I said 6-7 streaks, but I didn't say they turn and fight. If a sorc ever uses 6-7 streaks it's almost impossible to get near him cause he will streak thru you causing you to get stunned, but thats in extreme cases. But he can still manage to pull of 6-7 streaks cause he uses his main resource pool as his escape tool. And it will be the same case with magicka nightblades as it will be their main pool which they use for escape. With the streak nerf I'm pretty sure stam sorcs felt the pinch more then magicka sorcs and it would've hurt them much more.

I agree, it wrecked the stam sorc build for me, I used streak to get out if overrun by zerg and burned through too much stamina with caltrops/purge. Stam sorc was fun, because it was not something every sorc did. That's why I started an NB with a 2H, 3 weeks ago, I got so used to 2H on sorc that I could not transfer to magica sorc sort of stationary gameplay. Also back then there was no option to not have "carpet wrapped around legs" ugly look of light armor. I stopped playing the game completely for about a year - magica sorc was just not fun at all for me. This build was ridiculously mobile with streak and stampede, suddenly I have become stationary cannon fodder, fun factor of freedom went away. I wasn't anything special, I wasn't OP I was having some fun, just enjoyed the game, it had lots of lightnings going on and looked really enjoyable. Some funny moments in general, I wasn't min/maxing the hell out of it I just enjoyed the freedom and fun.

I think stam build will suffer a lot for people that enjoy the game in a moderate way. If they will wreck stamina NB like they did with sorc I don't think I will come back again it just takes to long to create another VR char without sitting online 24/7.

This is just average player opinion, I just like to have choices, although stam NB is nothing unique it took me a year to come back to the game, still the biggest problem for me is zerg and the way the game is lagged with weapon swaps and some skills not activating at all sometimes. Having 99 fps in a PVE dungeon and lagged weapon swap and skill not activating is a joke on fibreoptic and non wi-fi connection with no other network devices... Add PVP as a far more demanding environment and it is just no fun at all with a nerf or without a nerf.

aLi3nZ

No need to nerf. Pop a detect pot if you see a flash of red mist and you have the upper hand.

SeventhCelestial

There is so much anti Cloak options to use in this game that this thread makes me twitch. If nightblades who cloak a lot and like to troll, as myself, are your weakness, then use the tools we are given and have to stop me. A few streamers today were facing me and a few of my friends. We were on our nightblades that we are designing to be annoying AF and nearly zerg killing. Once we got hit with Detect Pots, game over. Study your opponent(s), check your death log and if you are going to go face them again, do whatever it takes to over come it.

TheBonesXXX

I'm growing real tired of the lack of PvP IQ on these forums. A few FPS heroes that rely on twitch skill rather than wit.

Cloak is the only damage mitigation NB's have, other wise NB's are squish.

Below are things that keep NBs out of Cloak from all Classes.

Sorcs: Boundless Storm and Encase
DKs: Burning Talons and Inhale
Templars: Blazing Spear and Puncturing Strike spam
Nightblades: Piercing Mark, Teleport Strike, Drain Power

Magelight and Detect pot for you spoiled hand out types that don't want to slot one of these abilities.

If a Nightblade escapes your zerg, it's because it's a ZERG, there is no intelligence required.

SeventhCelestial

I just wanted to add that I also feel that a lot of the complaining people are either those who have not played a nightblade, or don't play one right (ambush spammers). Playing a damn good NB takes skills. Specially for those one who do it alone. My newest one is built to work with a group. I know that if I had to 1v1 a decent player, I'd have to really watch what I was doing or I will go down in a matter of seconds. Something that I will work on as I continue the climb to VR16.

KundaliniHero

Yeah I would prefer to hear what elite PVP players feel about cloak rather than the usual garden variety forum whiners who do more complaining than actual playing. When I was new to the game I must admit it was something I struggled to counter, however I elected to keep throwing myself at fights rather than coming here to pontificate about how unfair ESO is and you know what: it worked. So I would suggest replacing the "Pen is Mightier than the Sword" mentality with "Practice Makes Perfect" and see if you can change some of the results you are getting. But if your ego is too big and your threshold for new challenges is low perhaps PVE would suit you better, or maybe even a whole different game.

While we're at it lets just all go ahead and admit that cloak is only a perceived problem in IC and not Cyro and that the state of the game has promoted Zergs regardless so half the time none of this matters anyway.

Stigant

Cloak was fine .. people just had to learn how to use it, during that time every "assassin wannabe" QQed on forums how bad it is ...then it was buffed at the worst possible moment when IC came out so everyone switched to cloak spamming NB and Cloak became OP, so OP that even some of the best NB players like @sabresandiego_ESO started threads that Cloak could use some tuning down .. to this very moment it still is kinna broken and encourages people to use other broken stuff like gapcloser spam to counter it ..

Thats what this game became ... we counter broken stuff and stupid mechanics with other broken stuff and/or stupid mechanics, provided that we actually have latency low enough to do so ...

... good game good night, good bye

blur

.

Xvorg

Barlthump wrote: »

Hello forum goers,

So with the influx of nerf cloak threads, I say i agree! But lets look at cloak, its a skill that can easily be countered. So heres what i suggest, make cloak a reliable escape skill, REMOVE the red dust animation and let it teleport you a few meters away, so at least it can only be used defensively.

I don't use cloak, you could try the same.

Xvorg

Barlthump wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

So you want Bolt Escape that stealths you in the process... mmkay...

It should also grant major brutality, empowerment on your next attack and surround you in shadow blades dealing insane amounts of AoE damage for 15 seconds.
There, balance.

And look at that another non constructive sarcastic remark which serves no point at all. No surprise here.

Sarcasm is something way too serious te be taken lightly...

TheBonesXXX

I actually want the pre 1.6 cloak back, this new one may drop single attacks, but the animations chase you in stealth.

BuggeX

Barlthump wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Nerf people that don't know how to gear or counter properly.

These people are getting out of hand! Seriously, you know something is OP when everyone is doing it.

yea gear... even with 30k armor you will be wrecked by 8k snips.... make sens

Learn to gear my friend. Unless you are a vamp, properly geared nobody will hit you for that much. I have a V3 Templar in 2 heavy 5 light and NEVER see any single ability for over 8k from stealth. And nothing hits for over 5-6k out of stealth. It sounds like to me you expect crit damage to magically reduce somehow without having to gear for it.

People need to learn to gear properly for pvp.

Lets be honest, if ANYONE dies from 1 second cast spammed snipes with a travel time, they have more pressing issues.

this 3 hits wasnt even out of stealth

i guess you Need to open you damn eys.

this was with 26k armor.

and btw, i have 3 pices inpenetrabnle and 50 cps into reduce crit

So you are angry that you took 2 surprise attacks and a wrecking blow plus a number of dots on you to die while you healed for 197 a tick? I would've dodge rolled after the first SA used a heal on myself and continued fighting but it seems like you made no effort to heal yourself. You have proxy det so I'm assuming you're a magicka class, healing ward? Mutagen? I see none of those in your combat log. I mean look at the recount, you did 126k damage but only healed for 7k while taking 39k damage, seems about right. How much punishment fo you expect to take? 100k damage to you before you fall just cause you got 26k armor impen? But I'm sorry, most people use one mace and one dagger so they have armor pen, plus SA Casts major breach so you can take damage and it seems you did for quite a bit there but you didn't heal up and continue.

im not mad that i died, i just say gear will not protect you in any way from ~7k hits.
the same hits i get when i wear 5L insteed of 5H

Brrrofski

BigTone wrote: »

Just give cloak the same treatment as bolt escape and it will be balanced. The problem is people spamming it.

No, the problem is people not wanting to adapt.

Run an aoe on your bar, run Radiant Magelight, put a tiny bit of effort in and farm ingredient to make detection pots. It's really not hard.

I have no problem with NBs cloaking when I fight them. A detect pot and it's game over. When I face good players when I'm on my magica, they don't let me cloak constantly. They know how to bring me out of stealth. So I'm forced to go offensive. Sometimes it works for me, sometimes it don't. But they force my hand and stop me dictating the fight.

Barlthump

BuggeX wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Nerf people that don't know how to gear or counter properly.

These people are getting out of hand! Seriously, you know something is OP when everyone is doing it.

yea gear... even with 30k armor you will be wrecked by 8k snips.... make sens

Learn to gear my friend. Unless you are a vamp, properly geared nobody will hit you for that much. I have a V3 Templar in 2 heavy 5 light and NEVER see any single ability for over 8k from stealth. And nothing hits for over 5-6k out of stealth. It sounds like to me you expect crit damage to magically reduce somehow without having to gear for it.

People need to learn to gear properly for pvp.

Lets be honest, if ANYONE dies from 1 second cast spammed snipes with a travel time, they have more pressing issues.

this 3 hits wasnt even out of stealth

i guess you Need to open you damn eys.

this was with 26k armor.

and btw, i have 3 pices inpenetrabnle and 50 cps into reduce crit

So you are angry that you took 2 surprise attacks and a wrecking blow plus a number of dots on you to die while you healed for 197 a tick? I would've dodge rolled after the first SA used a heal on myself and continued fighting but it seems like you made no effort to heal yourself. You have proxy det so I'm assuming you're a magicka class, healing ward? Mutagen? I see none of those in your combat log. I mean look at the recount, you did 126k damage but only healed for 7k while taking 39k damage, seems about right. How much punishment fo you expect to take? 100k damage to you before you fall just cause you got 26k armor impen? But I'm sorry, most people use one mace and one dagger so they have armor pen, plus SA Casts major breach so you can take damage and it seems you did for quite a bit there but you didn't heal up and continue.

im not mad that i died, i just say gear will not protect you in any way from ~7k hits.
the same hits i get when i wear 5L insteed of 5H

Yes but you did not self heal in anyway. I've faced Templars wearing heavy and they help themselves up after my initial burst if they live

Minno

Cloak not the issue, getting off more than 2 skills at once that award a stealth bonus is the issue.

Combine that with:
- no minimum range for ambush,
- ambush being a root instead of a stun,
- the efficiency of concealed/surprise attack with animation cancel (not a nerf for SA or CW but if AC is preferred mechanic balance the other skills around it),
- and caltrops not pulling Nightblades out of stealth when they cloak (caltrops dmg tick doesn't overlap with cloak casts so a player can cast cloak and walk over sharp objects completely hidden. )