To all the nerf cloak threads, I as a nightblade will agree

josh.lackey_ESO

Stealth in general is absurd in this game. It baffles me that anyone can become invisible just by crouching down, anywhere at all, with very few counters. I would suggest increasing the range of detect potions to 60 meters, the same as Mark. Only fair if someone is going to troll mark you, they risk being discovered.

I would also make Revealing Flare easier to get (put it where Guard is), and make it have some worthwhile benefit beyond stealth detection. Caltrops is too expensive for magicka builds, but I like Revealing Flare. It's just hard to justify using it. Maybe it could have had a minor buff attached to it? Idk.

DannyLV702

Cloak is fine. It's dragon scales that need a nerf lololololol

leepalmer95

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Cloak is fine. It's dragon scales that need a nerf lololololol

Aunatar

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

Cathexis

The thing about cloak is all the counters are not effective enough.

Sure they sometimes work but you are basically left guessing where your opponent is. The only option that ever works with significant effectiveness is potions.

Xeniph

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Nerf people that don't know how to gear or counter properly.

These people are getting out of hand! Seriously, you know something is OP when everyone is doing it.

yea gear... even with 30k armor you will be wrecked by 8k snips.... make sens

Learn to gear my friend. Unless you are a vamp, properly geared nobody will hit you for that much. I have a V3 Templar in 2 heavy 5 light and NEVER see any single ability for over 8k from stealth. And nothing hits for over 5-6k out of stealth. It sounds like to me you expect crit damage to magically reduce somehow without having to gear for it.

People need to learn to gear properly for pvp.

Lets be honest, if ANYONE dies from 1 second cast spammed snipes with a travel time, they have more pressing issues.

Barlthump

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

You seem to think Stamblades are the problem which is wrong. I'm a stam blade with 9k max magicka, I cloak at most 2 times.

Igawotch

deleted

xXNesTXx

Mmmm where is the "ban please" button in this forum?

Another year....the same nerf threads

God, give me patient...because if you give me strength.....

Master_Kas

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak is annoying as hell, yes, but people have learnt now how to counter it. So just leave it alone.

Sincerely,
Not a Nightblade.

I love you xD

Master_Kas

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

cloaking for half a min? stamblade cloaking is OP? A magicka nb can literary never be seen or if he's foolish to run into aoe spammers (ofc he can't do it if someone uses the bad bad detecpots that are a bad counter

Derra

Already forgot why i came here.

NB wanting a reliable escape when they already have the best escape tools in the game. I chuckled.

Cyrodiil is going to be a well-laid table of juice NB ap cupcakes who never learned to play their class properly once cloak gets "rebalanced".

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak is annoying as hell, yes, but people have learnt now how to counter it. So just leave it alone.

Sincerely,
Not a Nightblade.

I love you xD

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.

Barlthump

Derra wrote: »

Already forgot why i came here.

NB wanting a reliable escape when they already have the best escape tools in the game. I chuckled.

Cyrodiil is going to be a well-laid table of juice NB ap cupcakes who never learned to play their class properly once cloak gets "rebalanced".

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak is annoying as hell, yes, but people have learnt now how to counter it. So just leave it alone.

Sincerely,
Not a Nightblade.

I love you xD

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.

I don't know what world you are living in but cloak is not as reliable as you think, once again this is meant to be a place for suggestions. Not your useless opinions. If you wanna share opinions, I'll share mine. Once cloak gets nerfed I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna cream you with no effort at all. Just gonna have a harder time getting away. Sorry but proper players can always work around it, what this thread aims to do is to ensure that once a nerf comes the forums won't be full of NB who start a new QQ trainwreck. And what I suggested above, was not to be added to cloak that is there. It was supposed to be implemented with the nerfs to cloak such as no healing in cloak or lesser magicka regen in cloak or even increasing cost of cloak. That will allow cloak to be used defensively so that during a fight a nightblade can't cloak and instantly use concealed or surprise attack on you so that he can reset the fight or get multiple stealth bonuses. It baffles me how some idiot who has 2 Sorcs showing in his BB code come to me and tells me that he is gonna cream me, please boy, people have tried, and they all run away like lil girls. So take your uncontructive posts and shove them into the 'CLOAK OP' and 'NIGHTBLADE OP' forum discussions.

Aunatar

Barlthump wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

You seem to think Stamblades are the problem which is wrong. I'm a stam blade with 9k max magicka, I cloak at most 2 times.

That means you don't even know how to play your class, or you are most likely spreading disinformation because you don't want to show things as they actually are. Plus, I don't have issues about 5-6 k concealed weapons attacks, but 10k surprise attacks are a problem for everyone.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS AS A STAMBLADE "OMG I CAN ONLY CLOAK 2 TIMES", this comes from another post about Nightblades:

---

"Cloak, without any reduction, costs around 3500 magicka and lasts 2.9 seconds. You can easily get to 1200 magicka regen with drinks.

Let's pretend you have a small pool of 9000 magicka (that means NO prismatics), 0 CP in magician, 0 light armor pieces, 0 cost reduction glyphs and you never break your cloak:
--Without potions; X=time to run OOM in seconds
(3500/2,9)X = 9000+(1200/2)X | X= 14,8s | 14,8s/2,9s= (5,1) 5 Cloaks without going out of stealth
--Now after a V15 tri-stat potion when you are OOM, but still invisible (7391 magicka+major intellect); Y=time added from a potion
(3500/2,9)Y =7391+(1200*1,2/2)Y | Y=15,2s |
Total time spent being invisible= X+Y = (14,8+12,2)s = 27 seconds of TOTAL INVISIBILITY [which means 9 cloaks (9,31)]

Now, just to compare.. Try to streak or roll dodge for 27 seconds with your MAIN (not secondary) resource pool, even using drinks"
I don't think anyone could, even with drinks.

---

So, am I still a fool that spreads disinformation, or you are?

Anyways, a change like that would NOT nerf your escape, that would just prevent cloak to be spammable for several times: you would just need a slightly bigger pool in order to cloak those 4-5 times, get line of sight and regen your magicka while not in cloak

P.S. I would honestly rather seeing cloak tweaked in the way I proposed and detection potions being removed from the game.

Aunatar

deleted

tennant94

leepalmer95 wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

There is no way to balance cloak in this game. The issue with it is it makes you invisible, people can't see you. How do you fix that I hear you ask? You can't. Unless you remove the invisibility effect which wouldn't make any sense and the skill wouldn't exist. Buff counters or make counters more readily available is the only solution to it.

Add an increase cost like cloak/stop magicka regen when cloaking etc.

That wouldn't make a difference. You can still attack from stealth and stun from stealth and most likely still escape with stealth. Adding an increase to it would just frustrate cloak users and give the anti-cloak community appeasement, which is no real solution but more of a band aid fix.

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Already forgot why i came here.

NB wanting a reliable escape when they already have the best escape tools in the game. I chuckled.

Cyrodiil is going to be a well-laid table of juice NB ap cupcakes who never learned to play their class properly once cloak gets "rebalanced".

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak is annoying as hell, yes, but people have learnt now how to counter it. So just leave it alone.

Sincerely,
Not a Nightblade.

I love you xD

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.

So what can a nightblade without damageshields (stamina nb) and without cloak do?

It's like a sorcerer without shields. But alrighty derra upload some 1vX videos where noone counters your cloak in this group meta we have. I'm waiting patiently

Once again, a stamina nightblade. Not a permacloaking magicka nightblade who can spam healingward and/or harness, purge and teleport shade all day long. On top of concealed weapon which gives you 25% sneak speed boost, doubletake and perhaps even vampire? I'll give you that, if I want to avoid fights I can probably do that all day long on my magicka nightblade but that means not engaging alot and its quite boring.

Or a long range sniper/ganker build with camohunter ganking squishy targets from 30+ meters away and never leaving stealth, even then I die. And I'm not talking about duels either but open pvp.

You seem to know it all about a spec you never played (atleast not for longer periods of time as I've never seen you playing stamblade)

Try stamina nightblade playing melee range and see how well your cloak saves you from all the counters aviable.

Master_Kas

Aunatar wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

You seem to think Stamblades are the problem which is wrong. I'm a stam blade with 9k max magicka, I cloak at most 2 times.

That means you don't even know how to play your class, or you are most likely spreading disinformation because you don't want to show things as they actually are. Plus, I don't have issues about 5-6 k concealed weapons attacks, but 10k surprise attacks are a problem for everyone.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS AS A STAMBLADE "OMG I CAN ONLY CLOAK 2 TIMES", this comes from another post about Nightblades:

---

"Cloak, without any reduction, costs around 3500 magicka and lasts 2.9 seconds. You can easily get to 1200 magicka regen with drinks.

Let's pretend you have a small pool of 9000 magicka (that means NO prismatics), 0 CP in magician, 0 light armor pieces, 0 cost reduction glyphs and you never break your cloak:
--Without potions; X=time to run OOM in seconds
(3500/2,9)X = 9000+(1200/2)X | X= 14,8s | 14,8s/2,9s= (5,1) 5 Cloaks without going out of stealth
--Now after a V15 tri-stat potion when you are OOM, but still invisible (7391 magicka+major intellect); Y=time added from a potion
(3500/2,9)Y =7391+(1200*1,2/2)Y | Y=15,2s |
Total time spent being invisible= X+Y = (14,8+12,2)s = 27 seconds of TOTAL INVISIBILITY [which means 9 cloaks (9,31)]

Now, just to compare.. Try to streak or roll dodge for 27 seconds with your MAIN (not secondary) resource pool, even using drinks"
I don't think anyone could, even with drinks.

---

So, am I still a fool that spreads disinformation, or you are?

Anyways, a change like that would NOT nerf your escape, that would just prevent cloak to be spammable for several times: you would just need a slightly bigger pool in order to cloak those 4-5 times, get line of sight and regen your magicka while not in cloak

P.S. I would honestly rather seeing cloak tweaked in the way I proposed and detection potions being removed from the game.

You have to add in how many times the cloak fails due to aoe (tornados, caltrops, sap, jabs, yes even jabs can take you out of cloak, piercing mark, radiant magelight, detection pots, streak, encase, talons if close range, volatile armor, the list goes on and on) and consider that all nb's dont use regen drinks either since most NB's seem to be pretty glass specced (probably because it is the rouge class) with little sustain.

Edit:

What the person under me wrote to, I forgot since I'm tired. That's if you ONLY use cloak and it does NOT get countered, then you can stay invis yes if you run regen drinks.

If you use relentless focus for damagebuff, fear as a CC, cloak to purge/cleanse dots and to reposition double take/mirage for evasion and speedbuff. Those are not cheap skills to spam as a stamina build

ostrapz

Zos specifically said they are not nerfing cloak, and if they did anything that tey would reduce magicka regen while cloaked so theres that answer. Op post seems to b u want shadow image... And yes a stamblade gets 4 cloaks if timed perfectly and they have full magicka. Why do people always talk about roll-dodging op nightblades when 1. They gave a nerf to rolldodge 2. Rolldodge is cp and medium armor sooo stam dks stamplars and stam sorcs have that same option...

Alcast

I am so far that I as stamina build use up more Detection pots than Immovable pots at the moment because literally 100% NBs in Cyrodiil lol.

Barlthump

ostrapz wrote: »

Zos specifically said they are not nerfing cloak, and if they did anything that tey would reduce magicka regen while cloaked so theres that answer. Op post seems to b u want shadow image... And yes a stamblade gets 4 cloaks if timed perfectly and they have full magicka. Why do people always talk about roll-dodging op nightblades when 1. They gave a nerf to rolldodge 2. Rolldodge is cp and medium armor sooo stam dks stamplars and stam sorcs have that same option...

Yeah it's something along the lines of shadow image, but the problem with shadow image is that it does nothing which helps the stamina classes and it's not a very pvp friendly skill. Even if you shadow image, people will know exactly where you will port to and a simple caltrops throw will ruin your escape. What I'm saying is let the original plans of ZOS nerfs take place such as higher magicka cost or lesser magicka regen or whatever, just make it a more reliable escape skill when it happens so that it can only be used defensively and maybe one time offensively cause the blink can only be used once to get near, spam it and you will get further away from your target.

Master_Kas

Alcast wrote: »

I am so far that I as stamina build use up more Detection pots than Immovable pots at the moment because literally 100% NBs in Cyrodiil lol.

I use them too on all my chars, it's so cute seeing a nightblade desperatly wasting his magicka on trying to cloak before I twoshot his ass (either with entropy->proxy->Dawnbreaker if magicka or Heavy DW attack/Snipe and camo as stamina) since most of them are so drawn to the dark side of vampirism

Aunatar

Master_Kas wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

The real issue is with stamina nightblades cloaking too much, let's see why it's an issue:
-stamblades rely on stamina/weapon dmg to do damage and heal themselves and magicka to stealth and escape.
A stamblade can easily cloak several times with the simple help of a potion and a single magicka regen bonus (or drink).
-a magicka nightblade has to stack only magicka/spell dmg in order to increase damage, healing and survivability, but physical dmg cannot be reduced by any CP star, when Magic dmg can instead be mitigated by hardy, which equals to a stamina NB dealing 25% more dmg than a magcka based one.
-Also, there is another defense available against magic dmg which is harness magicka; Due to this, magicka NB have to sacrifice more regen in order to get comparable decent dmg=less resources for magicka nightblades

Why nerfing cloak with a blank 50% increased cost is wrong:
Increasing the cost of cloak like streak could possibly bring magicka nightblades to run out of resources even faster and lower their survivability too much, so how do we exactly tweak cloak without ruining magicka NB?
Let' consider the only real difference between the 2 specs: the resource pool.
To bring a perfect example of a "balanced" mechanic, a magicka DK or Templar has to stack some max stamina in order to increase his survivability and resource management and can't rely on his magicka pool only (as a magicka sorc, another unbalanced spec imho).

Now, I have 2 different but similar ideas for the cloak spam issue:
1)
Your magicka regen is lowered by 50% while your cloak is active (this means you are actually stealthed and you're not taking dmg); this % is reduced by 5% for every light armor piece equipped (to a minimum amount of 15% if using 7 light armor pieces)
2)
Your magicka regen is capped at 5% (note that is the exact same value of Helping Hands, DK passive) of your max magicka while your cloak is active; this % value is increased by 1% for every light armor piece equipped (to a maximum cap of 12% of your magicka pool using 7 light armor pieces)
This would barely touch magicka nightblades and would fix the issue with stamblades cloaking for half a minute or every 5 seconds during a fight while running a 4k weapon dmg build).

You seem to think Stamblades are the problem which is wrong. I'm a stam blade with 9k max magicka, I cloak at most 2 times.

That means you don't even know how to play your class, or you are most likely spreading disinformation because you don't want to show things as they actually are. Plus, I don't have issues about 5-6 k concealed weapons attacks, but 10k surprise attacks are a problem for everyone.

TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS AS A STAMBLADE "OMG I CAN ONLY CLOAK 2 TIMES", this comes from another post about Nightblades:

---

"Cloak, without any reduction, costs around 3500 magicka and lasts 2.9 seconds. You can easily get to 1200 magicka regen with drinks.

Let's pretend you have a small pool of 9000 magicka (that means NO prismatics), 0 CP in magician, 0 light armor pieces, 0 cost reduction glyphs and you never break your cloak:
--Without potions; X=time to run OOM in seconds
(3500/2,9)X = 9000+(1200/2)X | X= 14,8s | 14,8s/2,9s= (5,1) 5 Cloaks without going out of stealth
--Now after a V15 tri-stat potion when you are OOM, but still invisible (7391 magicka+major intellect); Y=time added from a potion
(3500/2,9)Y =7391+(1200*1,2/2)Y | Y=15,2s |
Total time spent being invisible= X+Y = (14,8+12,2)s = 27 seconds of TOTAL INVISIBILITY [which means 9 cloaks (9,31)]

Now, just to compare.. Try to streak or roll dodge for 27 seconds with your MAIN (not secondary) resource pool, even using drinks"
I don't think anyone could, even with drinks.

---

So, am I still a fool that spreads disinformation, or you are?

Anyways, a change like that would NOT nerf your escape, that would just prevent cloak to be spammable for several times: you would just need a slightly bigger pool in order to cloak those 4-5 times, get line of sight and regen your magicka while not in cloak

P.S. I would honestly rather seeing cloak tweaked in the way I proposed and detection potions being removed from the game.

You have to add in how many times the cloak fails due to aoe (tornados, caltrops, sap, jabs, yes even jabs can take you out of cloak, piercing mark, radiant magelight, detection pots, streak, encase, talons if close range, volatile armor, the list goes on and on) and consider that all nb's dont use regen drinks either since most NB's seem to be pretty glass specced (probably because it is the rouge class) with little sustain.

Edit:

What the person under me wrote to, I forgot since I'm tired. That's if you ONLY use cloak and it does NOT get countered, then you can stay invis yes if you run regen drinks.

If you use relentless focus for damagebuff, fear as a CC, cloak to purge/cleanse dots and to reposition double take/mirage for evasion and speedbuff. Those are not cheap skills to spam as a stamina build

Kas, that's why my idea would affect cloak only while NOT countered
And for the other skilss, everyone would use shuffle instead of double take

EdTerra

Yeah it's something along the lines of shadow image, but the problem with shadow image is that it does nothing which helps the stamina classes and it's not a very pvp friendly skill.

Wut ?
shadow image is mostly a skill for split opponents when u'r on 1vX, and it's helpfull for keep a safe distance when you fight someone who use detect pot + wb spam, well it drain stamina too if people keep blocking...
And as a mageblade, if u don't have shadow image, cloak will not help u to escape since every opponents spam gap closer + aoe in 1vX don't forget to fear before using it and use double take after if caltrops are on the shadow
And if someone use the proxydet+ultimate combo, pop a shadow = 15% reduc damage for 4s + shadow armor/spell resistance passiv proc, it's a way to deny some strong damage

how can u say it's not a pvp friendly skill ?

Anzriel

Come on people, you know how ZOS does this. They will balance cloak by giving it a heal and nerfing templars.

Derra

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Already forgot why i came here.

NB wanting a reliable escape when they already have the best escape tools in the game. I chuckled.

Cyrodiil is going to be a well-laid table of juice NB ap cupcakes who never learned to play their class properly once cloak gets "rebalanced".

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak is annoying as hell, yes, but people have learnt now how to counter it. So just leave it alone.

Sincerely,
Not a Nightblade.

I love you xD

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.

So what can a nightblade without damageshields (stamina nb) and without cloak do?

It's like a sorcerer without shields. But alrighty derra upload some 1vX videos where noone counters your cloak in this group meta we have. I'm waiting patiently

Once again, a stamina nightblade. Not a permacloaking magicka nightblade who can spam healingward and/or harness, purge and teleport shade all day long. On top of concealed weapon which gives you 25% sneak speed boost, doubletake and perhaps even vampire? I'll give you that, if I want to avoid fights I can probably do that all day long on my magicka nightblade but that means not engaging alot and its quite boring.

Or a long range sniper/ganker build with camohunter ganking squishy targets from 30+ meters away and never leaving stealth, even then I die. And I'm not talking about duels either but open pvp.

You seem to know it all about a spec you never played (atleast not for longer periods of time as I've never seen you playing stamblade)

Try stamina nightblade playing melee range and see how well your cloak saves you from all the counters aviable.

You can not make claims about a skill without using it to it´s full potential. It´s like a stamina sorc complaining they can only bolt two times and their shield is scaling with magica.

It´s a magica skill and you have to balance that magica skill taking into account it gets used on a highly optimised magica build tailored to work with it.

I´m sorry but stamina NB has nothing to do with the argument.

BuggeX

Xeniph wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Nerf people that don't know how to gear or counter properly.

These people are getting out of hand! Seriously, you know something is OP when everyone is doing it.

yea gear... even with 30k armor you will be wrecked by 8k snips.... make sens

Learn to gear my friend. Unless you are a vamp, properly geared nobody will hit you for that much. I have a V3 Templar in 2 heavy 5 light and NEVER see any single ability for over 8k from stealth. And nothing hits for over 5-6k out of stealth. It sounds like to me you expect crit damage to magically reduce somehow without having to gear for it.

People need to learn to gear properly for pvp.

Lets be honest, if ANYONE dies from 1 second cast spammed snipes with a travel time, they have more pressing issues.

this 3 hits wasnt even out of stealth

i guess you Need to open you damn eys.

this was with 26k armor.

and btw, i have 3 pices inpenetrabnle and 50 cps into reduce crit

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Already forgot why i came here.

NB wanting a reliable escape when they already have the best escape tools in the game. I chuckled.

Cyrodiil is going to be a well-laid table of juice NB ap cupcakes who never learned to play their class properly once cloak gets "rebalanced".

Master_Kas wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak is annoying as hell, yes, but people have learnt now how to counter it. So just leave it alone.

Sincerely,
Not a Nightblade.

I love you xD

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.

So what can a nightblade without damageshields (stamina nb) and without cloak do?

It's like a sorcerer without shields. But alrighty derra upload some 1vX videos where noone counters your cloak in this group meta we have. I'm waiting patiently

Once again, a stamina nightblade. Not a permacloaking magicka nightblade who can spam healingward and/or harness, purge and teleport shade all day long. On top of concealed weapon which gives you 25% sneak speed boost, doubletake and perhaps even vampire? I'll give you that, if I want to avoid fights I can probably do that all day long on my magicka nightblade but that means not engaging alot and its quite boring.

Or a long range sniper/ganker build with camohunter ganking squishy targets from 30+ meters away and never leaving stealth, even then I die. And I'm not talking about duels either but open pvp.

You seem to know it all about a spec you never played (atleast not for longer periods of time as I've never seen you playing stamblade)

Try stamina nightblade playing melee range and see how well your cloak saves you from all the counters aviable.

You can not make claims about a skill without using it to it´s full potential. It´s like a stamina sorc complaining they can only bolt two times and their shield is scaling with magica.

It´s a magica skill and you have to balance that magica skill taking into account it gets used on a highly optimised magica build tailored to work with it.

I´m sorry but stamina NB has nothing to do with the argument.

I have not met one player on my NB who was able to counter cloak + shade except for another NB with mark. I´d dare to say every NB whoms cloak gets "countered" needs to l2p.


This was what I was replying to, was no talk about magicka or stamina nightblades. I just laid down my opinion/reply since you claim I need to L2P

Keep that in mind before you or others want cloak nerfed just because magicka nbs can permacloak. And it has everything to do with the argument since it's now basiclly our primary defense since dodgeroll got the nerf.

And why doesn't it have to do with the argument just because it uses magicka? We already had roll nerf, I don't want a cloaknerf aswell so I have every right to put my arguments about it. You said noone besides other nbs can counter your cloak, you forgot to state why, because you're playing a magicka nb and can run purge, and have insane cloaked speed.

@Aunatar Don't be so sure. Sometimes I don't have room on my bar for both rapid manouvers and shuffle (for dodge chance + major expedition speedboost) so I slot double take. Also with doubletake you can sprint alot since it consumes magicka, saving your stamina for running/rolling ^^ Also it's an assissination skilline, you gain more critchance by having it slotted aswell. I slot rapid manouvers mostly when playing in group to remove roots/snares for allies, when I run solo I use doubletake

And yes, if they somehow manage to get a proper nerf, that there is no cost increase/regen penalty when the cloak fails they can add it. But knowing zos, how do you think that will work out?

eliisra

AltusVenifus wrote: »

I don't get it. I use detect pots and it completely kills a mageblade. There isn't a pot to bypass shields or reduce heals... maybe make revealing flare better, but nerfing NB stealth would kill the class IMO. Seems silly to me...

Meanwhile, you can counter a templar without having to burn a 45 second cooldown that also prevents you from using Immovable and Tri-Stat potions. You dont need any specific counters at all, just mash dps and cc, eventually it breaks.

All you guys taking the potion cooldown this lightly, is it for real real? I probably died 1000 times or more because I couldn't use a tri-stat when needed in PvP.

BigTone

Just give cloak the same treatment as bolt escape and it will be balanced. The problem is people spamming it.