Lets talk about Vigor.

bardx86

Ok so just fought a DK. OK how is this fair 40%ish passive dodge. Dodge role for days. Armor thru the roof. Hits like a truck. WTF does this guy need Vigor? Can even scratch the guy but when we finally do he's full health.

CyrusArya

What did I tell you @bardx86. You're just upset you can't kill good stamina builds and want an easier time. WTF does he need vigor for? For when he is fighting actually competent opponents. Your follow up QQ is only more firmly proving my points.

BTW there's no such thing as 40% passive dodge.

Barlthump

BuggeX wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

Same could be said about Major Brutality vs Major Sorcery. To get their 20% spell damage buffs, mages just need rank 4 in the mages guild. No particular weapon required, and it also has a minor HoT attached to it. Great spell (entropy).
Stam users want major brutality they have to use a 2 handed weapon, max out 2h to level 38 and get Momentum, or max out dual wield and get flying dagger.
There's always going to be something someone is missing out on unfortunately. I do understand where you're coming from though, because I feel the same way about the buff I described above.

but there is a difference, we are forced to use one weapon to heal ourself. while you still have some other usefull Utilitys on dw or 2h for maj. brut.

flying blade is simply a op *** spamable range skill
crit rush, well i dont think i have to add anythink else
stealtornado, 10m execute with insane dmg
WB, a self buffing spamable hardhitting hardcc cast

wath else would you use in pvp?

i dont say vigor is op or anything else, but aslong magicka class have to use resto for selfhealing to survive the insane dmg from the skills above its just mehh

if i would have other Utilitys on restro i would use it, but just for 1 - 2 skill to heal my self ?

This guy right here wants to make eso a magicka game. How about this? Let's just remove stamina from the game. We got one strong heal skill compared to all the other heals magicka classes have.

Let's say magicka Sorcs, they pump points into bastion and poof. They got themselves a shield that's as huge as their health and it's from a class skill. And shields can't be critted or DoT.

Magicka Templars have a class heal skill that's so sick that if you don't kill em in one burst they just stand there waving their arms like a bunch of tarts.

Magicka nightblade just spam 1 skill, strife. That's all they do. Strife spam.

Magicka DKs, I agree are much more weaker and need to be looked at as a class cause it's in a bad place right now.

So don't come here and QQ. That you need to swap bars. You people just do that so you can shield stack like a bunch of wusses and also want to make sure you can PEW PEW people. And if you are a magicka sorc you got overload that gives you a WHILE NEW BAR TO PUT SKILLS ON. That bar just needs bound armor, magelight, 2 skills that don't matter and you light attack to win

BuggeX

Barlthump wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

Same could be said about Major Brutality vs Major Sorcery. To get their 20% spell damage buffs, mages just need rank 4 in the mages guild. No particular weapon required, and it also has a minor HoT attached to it. Great spell (entropy).
Stam users want major brutality they have to use a 2 handed weapon, max out 2h to level 38 and get Momentum, or max out dual wield and get flying dagger.
There's always going to be something someone is missing out on unfortunately. I do understand where you're coming from though, because I feel the same way about the buff I described above.

but there is a difference, we are forced to use one weapon to heal ourself. while you still have some other usefull Utilitys on dw or 2h for maj. brut.

flying blade is simply a op *** spamable range skill
crit rush, well i dont think i have to add anythink else
stealtornado, 10m execute with insane dmg
WB, a self buffing spamable hardhitting hardcc cast

wath else would you use in pvp?

i dont say vigor is op or anything else, but aslong magicka class have to use resto for selfhealing to survive the insane dmg from the skills above its just mehh

if i would have other Utilitys on restro i would use it, but just for 1 - 2 skill to heal my self ?

Magicka DKs, I agree are much more weaker and need to be looked at as a class cause it's in a bad place right now.

this

i just Play this and never will do somthing else.

i dont have shilds
i dont have heals
i dont heav dmg
i dont have movement
i dont have escape
i dont have hard hitting ***

zornyan

bardx86 wrote: »

Ok so just fought a DK. OK how is this fair 40%ish passive dodge. Dodge role for days. Armor thru the roof. Hits like a truck. WTF does this guy need Vigor? Can even scratch the guy but when we finally do he's full health.

There is no 40% dodge chance in game .

The only skill they would have been using in shuffle, a 20% dodge chance skill that anyone can use.

caeliusstarbreaker

bardx86 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »

Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?

Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?

Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.

Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.

So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.

Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?

All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.


Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.

Barlthump

BuggeX wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

Same could be said about Major Brutality vs Major Sorcery. To get their 20% spell damage buffs, mages just need rank 4 in the mages guild. No particular weapon required, and it also has a minor HoT attached to it. Great spell (entropy).
Stam users want major brutality they have to use a 2 handed weapon, max out 2h to level 38 and get Momentum, or max out dual wield and get flying dagger.
There's always going to be something someone is missing out on unfortunately. I do understand where you're coming from though, because I feel the same way about the buff I described above.

but there is a difference, we are forced to use one weapon to heal ourself. while you still have some other usefull Utilitys on dw or 2h for maj. brut.

flying blade is simply a op *** spamable range skill
crit rush, well i dont think i have to add anythink else
stealtornado, 10m execute with insane dmg
WB, a self buffing spamable hardhitting hardcc cast

wath else would you use in pvp?

i dont say vigor is op or anything else, but aslong magicka class have to use resto for selfhealing to survive the insane dmg from the skills above its just mehh

if i would have other Utilitys on restro i would use it, but just for 1 - 2 skill to heal my self ?

Magicka DKs, I agree are much more weaker and need to be looked at as a class cause it's in a bad place right now.

this

i just Play this and never will do somthing else.

i dont have shilds
i dont have heals
i dont heav dmg
i dont have movement
i dont have escape
i dont have hard hitting ***

Just go and level the other classes to 50 and gather as much champ points as possible. When they remove VR caps play FOTM classes. That's what I'm doing.

BuggeX

a class shouldn have mobility and heal together in first place.
Dk and Templar doesnt have mobility, so they should have the biggest heals
sorc and NB have mobility, so they shouldnt have heals

Forestd16b14_ESO

BuggeX wrote: »

a class shouldn have mobility and heal together in first place.
Dk and Templar doesnt have mobility, so they should have the biggest heals
sorc and NB have mobility, so they shouldnt have heals

Thing is DKs don't even have heals. Yes our class shields boost healing done but our actually heal is just stupid. Restores 33% of missing health and adds 20% more health recovery. That's only useful at the middle of your health and if you have high health recovery.

Me personally dragons blood needs changed to do a basic heal and add a very powerful HOT effect and be effected by our shield and quick recovery and what ever that mage passive. Also to keep green blood the same but boost the stamina recovery from 20% to 30% and change coagulating blood to remove 2 negative effects and reduce the effectiveness of any more applied by 50%.

Eejit1331

On top of the superior heals provided by vigor and rally, stamina users have armor and spell strength 25% stronger than magicka users. I could understand 25% stronger armor for stam users and 25% stronger spell armor for magicka users, bUT at this point, stam users are a few notches below tank stats. GDB is weak. 15% of missing health is an insult.

AllPlayAndNoWork

Easy option to all the QQ'ing and restore some balance.

Ditch Vigor altogether - make restro scale of highest stat.
Then everyone has to do the same.

*shrugs*

zornyan

Eejit1331 wrote: »

On top of the superior heals provided by vigor and rally, stamina users have armor and spell strength 25% stronger than magicka users. I could understand 25% stronger armor for stam users and 25% stronger spell armor for magicka users, bUT at this point, stam users are a few notches below tank stats. GDB is weak. 15% of missing health is an insult.

Not really.

My magicka light armor templar has 32k spell resist and 17k physical resist buffed, you'll have more spell resist due to light armor passives and Nirnhoned weapons giving a large buff over medium armor users.

Even better is because all ultimates except dragon leap are magic damage, I take less damage from skills like camo hunter os soul harvest than a medium armor wearer, even less dmage than a heavy armor wearer.

BuggeX

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

a class shouldn have mobility and heal together in first place.
Dk and Templar doesnt have mobility, so they should have the biggest heals
sorc and NB have mobility, so they shouldnt have heals

Thing is DKs don't even have heals. Yes our class shields boost healing done but our actually heal is just stupid. Restores 33% of missing health and adds 20% more health recovery. That's only useful at the middle of your health and if you have high health recovery.

Me personally dragons blood needs changed to do a basic heal and add a very powerful HOT effect and be effected by our shield and quick recovery and what ever that mage passive. Also to keep green blood the same but boost the stamina recovery from 20% to 30% and change coagulating blood to remove 2 negative effects and reduce the effectiveness of any more applied by 50%.

even if i would like it, gdb should just give, like anything else, Major buff wich is 20%.

coag, yes should pruge negativ effects, any class should have a class pruge

Eejit1331 wrote: »

On top of the superior heals provided by vigor and rally, stamina users have armor and spell strength 25% stronger than magicka users. I could understand 25% stronger armor for stam users and 25% stronger spell armor for magicka users, bUT at this point, stam users are a few notches below tank stats. GDB is weak. 15% of missing health is an insult.

even heavy will not protect you from dmg, i get the same hits with LA than with HA

nordsavage

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

BuggeX

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

nordsavage

BuggeX wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

That was a clown shoes statement that only invites circular logic. I will let you ponder it a bit more. Start with dodge, break free, sneak and block either eat stamina used for healing and attacking or stop the regen all together. Did your mana regen while you cast BOL after you blocked then dodge rolled? Yes it did.

BuggeX

nordsavage wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

That was a clown shoes statement that only invites circular logic. I will let you ponder it a bit more. Start with dodge, break free, sneak and block either eat stamina used for healing and attacking or stop the regen all together. Did your mana regen while you cast BOL after you blocked then dodge rolled? Yes it did.

í dont have bol sry

zornyan

BuggeX wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

Yet magicka has the highest dps in pvp, a better time solo in vmsa and hits harder in pvp....

BuggeX

zornyan wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

Yet magicka has the highest dps in pvp, a better time solo in vmsa and hits harder in pvp....

woooootttt??????? i never saw a overloaded la or cfrag or even DB of smithing vs a Vamp with 13k, well i see regulary 13-15k wb or snipe


i also never saw a magicka user onehitting me, well i get onhitted very offten from staminas

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

BuggeX wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

Stamina build life
Fighting: cost stamina force to have cost reductions on jewelry at lease two.

Block: stopping your own stamina regen and lossing it when hit.

Break free: let's you react but costing you the resource needed for defense, healing and attacks.

Dodge Roll: let's you avoid all damage for .5 seconds while increasing in cost 33%.

Does magic shields or heals increase in cost or stop magic recovery no not at all. Stamina builds are forced to take CP perks to reduce the COST of using Stamina defense. Yet mages use CP to BOOST defenses.

We are forced to take dodge roll and block cost reductions two different perks just to save ourselves. You can make your defense with no penalties even better we can make our defenses usable.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

BuggeX wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

Yet magicka has the highest dps in pvp, a better time solo in vmsa and hits harder in pvp....

woooootttt??????? i never saw a overloaded la or cfrag or even DB of smithing vs a Vamp with 13k, well i see regulary 13-15k wb or snipe


i also never saw a magicka user onehitting me, well i get onhitted very offten from staminas

My Crystal Fragments hits people for 16k what gear is your Sorcerer wearing? Also have been hit that hard consistently.

Dawnbreaker of Smiting one shotted me at full health so many time in one day that I cured Vamp I only used the stealth speed not worth that Hell.

Dawnbreaker of Smiting is basically a double Crit Ultimate.

BuggeX

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Does magic shields or heals increase in cost or stop magic recovery no not at all. Stamina builds are forced to take CP perks to reduce the COST of using Stamina defense. Yet mages use CP to BOOST defenses.

wath defense are you talking about? there isnt a cp for def vs Stamina.

you know wath magicka users have to skill???? breakfree costs, blockcosts and Bastion if you are a sorc,

fact is, if you are out of Stamina for break free you are dead.

and you know how often a magicka user is able to do so? 2 times, cause you also have to doge atleast 1 time

Alucardo

BuggeX wrote: »

wath defense are you talking about? there isnt a cp for def vs Stamina.

you know wath magicka users have to skill???? breakfree costs, blockcosts and Bastion if you are a sorc,

fact is, if you are out of Stamina for break free you are dead.

and you know how often a magicka user is able to do so? 2 times, cause you also have to doge atleast 1 time

Please, stop being ridiculous. We all have 3 attributes, and we all need to use them. My stam DK burns through a lot of magicka, Igneous shield and scales being the worst offenders, but to me, they are necessary. So, to combat this I throw points into magicka regen and cost reduction.
My main source of damage is actually flame, so I also split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. Do you see me complaining? No. Because we all have to make sacrifices to get the most out of our builds. Quit your whining.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

BuggeX wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Does magic shields or heals increase in cost or stop magic recovery no not at all. Stamina builds are forced to take CP perks to reduce the COST of using Stamina defense. Yet mages use CP to BOOST defenses.

wath defense are you talking about? there isnt a cp for def vs Stamina.

you know wath magicka users have to skill???? breakfree costs, blockcosts and Bastion if you are a sorc,

fact is, if you are out of Stamina for break free you are dead.

and you know how often a magicka user is able to do so? 2 times, cause you also have to doge atleast 1 time

Magic defense is Shields cause Sorcerers have an OP one don't make the rest useless. All my mages have 100 points in Bastion and start the Healing Ward + Class Shield at 30% my Nightblade Healing Ward + Double Take.

Everyone dies when they run out of Stamina cause everyone has CCs. Break free cost? Blocking cost? Yes it does the same to us yet we have to fight, defend, heal and escape all with that one resource.

zornyan

BuggeX wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.

staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?

Yet magicka has the highest dps in pvp, a better time solo in vmsa and hits harder in pvp....

woooootttt??????? i never saw a overloaded la or cfrag or even DB of smithing vs a Vamp with 13k, well i see regulary 13-15k wb or snipe


i also never saw a magicka user onehitting me, well i get onhitted very offten from staminas

That's down to the fact many sorcs are fotm builds that haven't got a clue.

I have 32k spell resist, so at the cap, and 15% elemental and Magic damage reduction from CP .

I've had overload HIT me (in FTC report) for 15k, the largest wb or snipe has only ever been 13k, that's with 17k physical resist and not CP to mitigate it.

Hence why recently a sorc hit 56k dps using an overload build.

Crystal frags regularly hits me for 14K too.

Alucardo

BuggeX wrote: »

woooootttt??????? i never saw a overloaded la or cfrag or even DB of smithing vs a Vamp with 13k, well i see regulary 13-15k wb or snipe

This is pretty common

zornyan

BuggeX wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Does magic shields or heals increase in cost or stop magic recovery no not at all. Stamina builds are forced to take CP perks to reduce the COST of using Stamina defense. Yet mages use CP to BOOST defenses.

wath defense are you talking about? there isnt a cp for def vs Stamina.

you know wath magicka users have to skill???? breakfree costs, blockcosts and Bastion if you are a sorc,

fact is, if you are out of Stamina for break free you are dead.

and you know how often a magicka user is able to do so? 2 times, cause you also have to doge atleast 1 time

Then you need to rework you magicks build.

My mag templar has 38k magicka, 27k hp and 18k stamina in cyrodil. With 18% cost reduction to break free and roll dodge in CP I can defend just as good as a stamina user.

BuggeX

ohh did i forgott to say that i have to use a *** 3k Stamina spell to gap closer all the dogerolling shiters?

Atzel

BuggeX wrote: »

ohh did i forgott to say that i have to use a *** 3k Stamina spell to gap closer all the dogerolling shiters?

If you run less with that AD zerg you run with , i am sure you will find better ways to avoid and improve in specific situations.

For me only nerf that vigor needs is to effect less people than it does. Apart from that is balanced in general.

bardx86

Alucardo wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

wath defense are you talking about? there isnt a cp for def vs Stamina.

you know wath magicka users have to skill???? breakfree costs, blockcosts and Bastion if you are a sorc,

fact is, if you are out of Stamina for break free you are dead.

and you know how often a magicka user is able to do so? 2 times, cause you also have to doge atleast 1 time

Please, stop being ridiculous. We all have 3 attributes, and we all need to use them. My stam DK burns through a lot of magicka, Igneous shield and scales being the worst offenders, but to me, they are necessary. So, to combat this I throw points into magicka regen and cost reduction.
My main source of damage is actually flame, so I also split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. Do you see me complaining? No. Because we all have to make sacrifices to get the most out of our builds. Quit your whining.

This is the whole point of this post. Adding vigor allows some Stam builds to ignore one of the stat bars completely. Magicka classes can not do that.