Lets talk about Vigor.

bardx86

Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?

lolo_01b16_ESO

Before asking for a nerf you could think about why many people are using vigor. Is it because it's an op heal that is better than breath of life on a magicka templar? Or is it maybe because it's the only reliable heal that scales with weapon damage?
There might be things that need to be balanced better between magicka and stamina builds, but nerfing stamina heals is for sure not part of it.

CatchMeTrolling

Thought they should've kept it at the level it was at, yes you could still get it but it's insanely easy to get now. And I don't get how stamina users are healing on par with magicka users, sometimes better. I didn't see vigor being used until they basically made it available to everyone, on console that is. The problem with this move is you don't even have to spec any cp points into blessed or quick recovery for it to be great.

I've even tested it myself, the heal for it is ridiculous.

bardx86

I agree, be even at the higher level, most would have it a some point. It's really off balancing Stam\Magicka builds.

bardx86

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Before asking for a nerf you could think about why many people are using vigor. Is it because it's an op heal that is better than breath of life on a magicka templar? Or is it maybe because it's the only reliable heal that scales with weapon damage?
There might be things that need to be balanced better between magicka and stamina builds, but nerfing stamina heals is for sure not part of it.

Well I'm not sure Stams classes should have that good a heal. they rely more on damage avoidance but i get your point. Also I didn't call for a nerf, I just wanted other opinions.

olsborg

There are many things that needs to be looked at before we even think about vigor, wich I rly dont think has any issues anyway, imo.

Knootewoot

Vigor should only be available at alliance rank 30 and in cyrodill

bardx86

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vigor should only be available at alliance rank 30 and in cyrodill

Just making Vigor hard to get doesn't change the imbalance it creates. Everyone will hit 30 at some point.

BuggeX

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

CatchMeTrolling

bardx86 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vigor should only be available at alliance rank 30 and in cyrodill

Just making Vigor hard to get doesn't change the imbalance it creates. Everyone will hit 30 at some point.

Think he was trolling but as for levels depends on which platform you're talking really. On console there's not too many high ranking pvp player's since people create new characters, though the main pvp player's that have one character are usually tribunes. Hell I'm the only console prefect on EP right now.

But yeah rally would still be ridiculously good.

bardx86

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

Definitely part of the problem.

Knootewoot

bardx86 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vigor should only be available at alliance rank 30 and in cyrodill

Just making Vigor hard to get doesn't change the imbalance it creates. Everyone will hit 30 at some point.

Stamina NB have no other heal. Vigor should maybe heal less or cost more stamina upon spamming (something costing more resources like streak is just a cooldown in disguise) and take any class out of stealth just like any other heal. Or nightblades should have a stamina morph of a heal ability.

olsborg

You cant spam vigor. Well you can, but it doesnt do anything but drain your stamina. Vigor is a 5 sec HoT and cant be stacked with itself.

CatchMeTrolling

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vigor should only be available at alliance rank 30 and in cyrodill

Just making Vigor hard to get doesn't change the imbalance it creates. Everyone will hit 30 at some point.

Think he was trolling but as for levels depends on which platform you're talking really. On console there's not too many high ranking pvp player's since people create new characters, though the main pvp player's that have one character are usually tribunes. Hell I'm the only console prefect on EP right now.

But yeah rally would still be ridiculously good.

Vigor.

daswahnsinn

I'm a stam DK and use Vigor. I have to have some form of self heals, since GDB is completely useless for me to use. I use it and still die, it may be timing or just my time to go. I don't think it's OP at all, if you look at the HoT and use it as most DKs do. Hit Rally, then igneous shields, the vigor - Lets just say that buffs it up on the tool tip to 15k over 5 seconds, now your getting hit by some pretty hard hitting builds and lets say avg dmg a second is 7k. You still die since you only have 3k HoT from casting three abilities. But this is just my opinion and ways I've died using vigor. Vigor will never be as good as animation cancelled BoL.

BuggeX

daswahnsinn wrote: »

I'm a stam DK and use Vigor. I have to have some form of self heals, since GDB is completely useless for me to use. I use it and still die, it may be timing or just my time to go. I don't think it's OP at all, if you look at the HoT and use it as most DKs do. Hit Rally, then igneous shields, the vigor - Lets just say that buffs it up on the tool tip to 15k over 5 seconds, now your getting hit by some pretty hard hitting builds and lets say avg dmg a second is 7k. You still die since you only have 3k HoT from casting three abilities. But this is just my opinion and ways I've died using vigor. Vigor will never be as good as animation cancelled BoL.

dont you dogeroll while reg with vigor/Rally? l2p

Kas

vigor just completes a scheme where every serious pvp build has super high self-sustain. you cannot really take vigor away and leave stuff like healing ward (with weapon swaps) in. both mean very little effort to get a seerious amount of self healing / life sustain.

tbh, I'd prefer a typcial 1v1 between meele users to to about slowly draining the enemy's healthbar whereas progress is visibly from the health of the two. but that's just not how eso (where sooo amny selfheals exists, healers have decent damage, etc) works.

daswahnsinn

BuggeX wrote: »

daswahnsinn wrote: »

I'm a stam DK and use Vigor. I have to have some form of self heals, since GDB is completely useless for me to use. I use it and still die, it may be timing or just my time to go. I don't think it's OP at all, if you look at the HoT and use it as most DKs do. Hit Rally, then igneous shields, the vigor - Lets just say that buffs it up on the tool tip to 15k over 5 seconds, now your getting hit by some pretty hard hitting builds and lets say avg dmg a second is 7k. You still die since you only have 3k HoT from casting three abilities. But this is just my opinion and ways I've died using vigor. Vigor will never be as good as animation cancelled BoL.

dont you dogeroll while reg with vigor/Rally? l2p

I do dodge roll but dying is apart of PVP and will happen. I don't think L2P applies here, too many things happen during a battle and if you run out of resources then the only thing that will happen is death. Also I don't run builds that rely on dodge roll, I try to kill enemies quickly so I don't have to.

Alucardo

bardx86 wrote: »

Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?

Are you the Nightblade I killed 10 times last night who called me a noob for "spamming heals"?

Alucardo

Anyway, Vigor is fine the way it is. Stam users can't run around with resto staffs or rely on class heals because they are all magicka.
I only play stam builds, and I've played without Vigor in PVP before. It's not easy, and makes solo pvp basically impossible (depending on your class).

Pelemane

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

This. WTB Vigor magicka morph.

Alucardo

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

Same could be said about Major Brutality vs Major Sorcery. To get their 20% spell damage buffs, mages just need rank 4 in the mages guild. No particular weapon required, and it also has a minor HoT attached to it. Great spell (entropy).
Stam users want major brutality they have to use a 2 handed weapon, max out 2h to level 38 and get Momentum, or max out dual wield and get flying dagger.
There's always going to be something someone is missing out on unfortunately. I do understand where you're coming from though, because I feel the same way about the buff I described above.

Angarato

we dont have any other reliable healing options beside rally and rally isnt enough.

stamsorc has crit surge, which needs a target thats critable not very reliable altho pretty good
stamblade has... nothing, swallow soul sucks for stamina users
stamdk has GDB which has been nerfed and is basicly *** useless in pvp
stamplar does have heals but i dont know if theyre any good since i dont play one.

also vigor isnt a direct heal, its a hot thats why people run away and line of sight while using it, its not good enough to tank straight up damage

Angarato

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

oh boo freaking hoo, all stam users have to use 2hander for rally
2hander is our resto staff. you are forced into using it

i much rather use s+b and bow. or s+b and dw. or dw and bow. but i cant i need rally AND vigor to be viable

Master_Kas

mimimimimi nerf nerf nerf

Master_Kas

Knootewoot wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Vigor should only be available at alliance rank 30 and in cyrodill

Just making Vigor hard to get doesn't change the imbalance it creates. Everyone will hit 30 at some point.

Stamina NB have no other heal. Vigor should maybe heal less or cost more stamina upon spamming (something costing more resources like streak is just a cooldown in disguise) and take any class out of stealth just like any other heal. Or nightblades should have a stamina morph of a heal ability.

If so they should make all heals/shields cost more when being spammed. You cannot do that to one skill and leave the rest. These nerf threads gets more sad, day after day.

Alucardo

Master_Kas wrote: »

These nerf threads gets more sad, day after day.

Lol ikr. Pretty tired of nerf posts as it is, but one about vigor... that's crossing the line man.

BigTone

Are we really comparing vigor to breath of life or healing ward right now? Please stop. Vigor is a nice heal, but does not compare to the other two heals I mentioned. Vigor is the only heal available to a stam build not running 2h. There are many things that need to be fixed, vigor is not one of them.

BuggeX

Alucardo wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have

Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up

Same could be said about Major Brutality vs Major Sorcery. To get their 20% spell damage buffs, mages just need rank 4 in the mages guild. No particular weapon required, and it also has a minor HoT attached to it. Great spell (entropy).
Stam users want major brutality they have to use a 2 handed weapon, max out 2h to level 38 and get Momentum, or max out dual wield and get flying dagger.
There's always going to be something someone is missing out on unfortunately. I do understand where you're coming from though, because I feel the same way about the buff I described above.

but there is a difference, we are forced to use one weapon to heal ourself. while you still have some other usefull Utilitys on dw or 2h for maj. brut.

flying blade is simply a op *** spamable range skill
crit rush, well i dont think i have to add anythink else
stealtornado, 10m execute with insane dmg
WB, a self buffing spamable hardhitting hardcc cast

wath else would you use in pvp?

i dont say vigor is op or anything else, but aslong magicka class have to use resto for selfhealing to survive the insane dmg from the skills above its just mehh

if i would have other Utilitys on restro i would use it, but just for 1 - 2 skill to heal my self ?

Toc de Malsvi

Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes

So...basically you issue is that you think Magicka should just be better cause magicka.....

Toc de Malsvi

BuggeX wrote: »

but there is a difference, we are forced to use one weapon to heal ourself. while you still have some other usefull Utilitys on dw or 2h for maj. brut.

flying blade is simply a op *** spamable range skill
crit rush, well i dont think i have to add anythink else
stealtornado, 10m execute with insane dmg
WB, a self buffing spamable hardhitting hardcc cast

wath else would you use in pvp?

i dont say vigor is op or anything else, but aslong magicka class have to use resto for selfhealing to survive the insane dmg from the skills above its just mehh

if i would have other Utilitys on restro i would use it, but just for 1 - 2 skill to heal my self ?

Yeah I mean 90% of class skills being Magicka is just not enough, I mean Stam classes get weapon skills that give them more options where as Magicka only gets strong heals from resto and a stupid destro staff....