Ball groups/Monkeys/Pats on the back

elc8745ub17_ESO

Do any of you all realize that monkeys could be trained to run in ball groups? Like literally. Dead serious. A monkey could be trained to do the things required to run in a ball group. One more time for emphasis. Ball group pvp is so dumbed down that a MONKEY...could perform the functions required.

And ball groups are the dominant thing in pvp right now and its been that way for quite awhile. Does anyone see any kind of problem with this? At all? I have a little respect for the leaders of these ball groups, because the leading can't be done by a monkey. That requires human level intelligence.

How do you ball groupers even pat yourself on the back or give congrats after a long night of pvping? Like what the hell do you even say? "Good job everybody turning right when we called turn RIGHT. That was an amazing right turn and boy did we press our buttons, the same buttons we press every single time were about to crash into some people. You all really pressed those buttons well, keeping the heals up without even knowing who you're healing or why you're healing them or what's even hitting you, just healing like bosses, healing when we're not even being hit in case of emergency alien attack from outer space. And oh man that LEFT turn holyyyyyyyyy, YALL that left turn was executed perfectly, I know we turn left a lot, sometimes right, or we just keep going forward but my DAWGS....THAT.LEFT.TURN. KILLLLLLLT IT.

When are you people, and this means EVERYONE, not even just the ball groupers, going to stand up and demand ZOS fix this idiotic form of pvp. I shouldn't even have to mention the lag it creates. Do you all even know what causes the lag? It's not so much so many players on the screen. It's the usage of skills. And in this game there are no cooldowns like in most other mmo's, regen builds are used by a lot of people because it's easy mode and ball groups necessitate spamming the ever living hell out of skills. The end result is endless, mindless spamming of skills never before seen in any mmo anywhere and the LAG it creates. The game will always have lag, but there is a marked difference when a ball group is doing its thing versus just regular lag.

Jura23

I can't play in such groups even if I wanted because the game is unplayable for me when they are around. I wonder if it's more smooth for them or they just hit steel tornado and wait to see what actually happened when the "fight" is over.

Jitterbug

Hah!

Scyantific

elc8745ub17_ESO wrote: »

Do any of you all realize that monkeys could be trained to run in ball groups? Like literally. Dead serious. A monkey could be trained to do the things required to run in a ball group. One more time for emphasis. Ball group pvp is so dumbed down that a MONKEY...could perform the functions required.

And ball groups are the dominant thing in pvp right now and its been that way for quite awhile. Does anyone see any kind of problem with this? At all? I have a little respect for the leaders of these ball groups, because the leading can't be done by a monkey. That requires human level intelligence.

How do you ball groupers even pat yourself on the back or give congrats after a long night of pvping? Like what the hell do you even say? "Good job everybody turning right when we called turn RIGHT. That was an amazing right turn and boy did we press our buttons, the same buttons we press every single time were about to crash into some people. You all really pressed those buttons well, keeping the heals up without even knowing who you're healing or why you're healing them or what's even hitting you, just healing like bosses, healing when we're not even being hit in case of emergency alien attack from outer space. And oh man that LEFT turn holyyyyyyyyy, YALL that left turn was executed perfectly, I know we turn left a lot, sometimes right, or we just keep going forward but my DAWGS....THAT.LEFT.TURN. KILLLLLLLT IT.

When are you people, and this means EVERYONE, not even just the ball groupers, going to stand up and demand ZOS fix this idiotic form of pvp. I shouldn't even have to mention the lag it creates. Do you all even know what causes the lag? It's not so much so many players on the screen. It's the usage of skills. And in this game there are no cooldowns like in most other mmo's, regen builds are used by a lot of people because it's easy mode and ball groups necessitate spamming the ever living hell out of skills. The end result is endless, mindless spamming of skills never before seen in any mmo anywhere and the LAG it creates. The game will always have lag, but there is a marked difference when a ball group is doing its thing versus just regular lag.

Sounds like you're mad.

Are you mad?

Show me on the doll where the zerg touched you inappropriately.

elc8745ub17_ESO

No I'm not mad, I'm passionate about it. And these poor ball groupers don't even realize that a monkey could be placed in their computer chair and perform almost just as good. I feel a need to let them know, to wake them up, show them the light. I would want someone to let me know

I did it once Jura, months ago, I lagged just as much being in the ball group as everyone outside. The main problem I had was staying awake. The leader was like alright man, stay on crown, cast prox det every time it goes off, and spam impulse. I was like ALRIGHT GOT IT. 10 minutes later zzzzzzzz. Was better than a sleeping pill. I was literally dozing off and still kicking ass though haha. And so we've come full circle, therein lies the problem.

Hammy01

Safety in numbers, it's that simple. Not everyone has the skill to solo/small group pvp in Cyrodiil... especially when most times you are always going to run into large groups on the other side.

This of course could be fixed if they just added in some cool objectives for solo/small groups to pvp over.

Jitterbug

Hammy01 wrote: »

Safety in numbers, it's that simple. Not everyone has the skill to solo/small group pvp in Cyrodiil... especially when most times you are always going to run into large groups on the other side.

This of course could be fixed if they just added in some cool objectives for solo/small groups to pvp over.

yeh the trick will be having those objectives non-zergable

jhharvest

There have been threads. Responses are invariably:
-Have you tried countering them?
-Are you trying to kill off large scale pvp?
-You should run a bigger spamnado group.
-Your faction does it too.
-We just want kills and it works.
-Are you saying organised groups shouldn't be effective?

eliisra

Hammy01 wrote: »

Safety in numbers, it's that simple. Not everyone has the skill to solo/small group pvp in Cyrodiil... especially when most times you are always going to run into large groups on the other side.

This of course could be fixed if they just added in some cool objectives for solo/small groups to pvp over.

Yeah, small scaling during primetime is just depressing. It's not even about skill, it's about how many times you can deal with getting run over by a massive horde of enemies without ragequitting the game.

There's only 3 types of viable playstyle right now. Run around with the larger than life pug zerg, towards the nearest enemy objective. Join a 12-24 man organised raid, that due to blobbing can deal with that larger than life pug zerg and other blobs. Play ganker, sit in sneak, burst people down before they manage to break free, run away.

What the hell is a 3-6 man group(how I define small scale), suppose to do in such environment?

Jahosefat

Columba?

1Grumpy_dunmer1

jhharvest wrote: »

There have been threads. Responses are invariably:
-Have you tried countering them?
-Are you trying to kill off large scale pvp?
-You should run a bigger spamnado group.
-Your faction does it too.
-We just want kills and it works.
-Are you saying organised groups shouldn't be effective?

The last thing these groups are is organized. Steel tornado derp impulse durp run repeat.

Hammy01

eliisra wrote: »

Hammy01 wrote: »

Safety in numbers, it's that simple. Not everyone has the skill to solo/small group pvp in Cyrodiil... especially when most times you are always going to run into large groups on the other side.

This of course could be fixed if they just added in some cool objectives for solo/small groups to pvp over.

Yeah, small scaling during primetime is just depressing. It's not even about skill, it's about how many times you can deal with getting run over by a massive horde of enemies without ragequitting the game.

There's only 3 types of viable playstyle right now. Run around with the larger than life pug zerg, towards the nearest enemy objective. Join a 12-24 man organised raid, that due to blobbing can deal with that larger than life pug zerg and other blobs. Play ganker, sit in sneak, burst people down before they manage to break free, run away.

What the hell is a 3-6 man group(how I define small scale), suppose to do in such environment?

Yeah I agree... and that is all we will see as long as Cyrodiil is what it is. There is nothing in place right now to break up the zergs.. no objectives, no AP/rewards, or powerful siege weapons that hurt zergs. It's like the old saying.. "if you can't beat em, then join em".

I was thinking of something that would be really cool (but it will never be implemented). ZOS could build a bunch of supply camps all over the map and these supply camps would have materials to build special Siege weapons that do a lot of damage to players and keeps. These materials would also be limited and BOP so having 24+ people running around taking these supply camps won't be that effective as only a few people will get these drops. The siege materials can be coded just like everything else... green/blue/purple/gold, you would need 5 or 6 to build a siege weapon and the better quality the harder it hits!

ZOS could also add in some War Camps that when taken over can drop special War Horns that when used can summon War Generals and such to help fight in the Alliance war. The War horns could also be green/blue/purple/gold and the better the quality the more powerful your general is!!

Both the supply camps and war camps would be neutral so the last people standing when the Camp commander is killed get the spoils.

Banroc

They should remove AOE in pvp problem fixed

Mojomonkeyman

elc8745ub17_ESO wrote: »

Do any of you all realize that monkeys could be trained to run in ball groups? Like literally. Dead serious. A monkey could be trained to do the things required to run in a ball group. One more time for emphasis. Ball group pvp is so dumbed down that a MONKEY...could perform the functions required.

And ball groups are the dominant thing in pvp right now and its been that way for quite awhile. Does anyone see any kind of problem with this? At all? I have a little respect for the leaders of these ball groups, because the leading can't be done by a monkey. That requires human level intelligence.

How do you ball groupers even pat yourself on the back or give congrats after a long night of pvping? Like what the hell do you even say? "Good job everybody turning right when we called turn RIGHT. That was an amazing right turn and boy did we press our buttons, the same buttons we press every single time were about to crash into some people. You all really pressed those buttons well, keeping the heals up without even knowing who you're healing or why you're healing them or what's even hitting you, just healing like bosses, healing when we're not even being hit in case of emergency alien attack from outer space. And oh man that LEFT turn holyyyyyyyyy, YALL that left turn was executed perfectly, I know we turn left a lot, sometimes right, or we just keep going forward but my DAWGS....THAT.LEFT.TURN. KILLLLLLLT IT.

When are you people, and this means EVERYONE, not even just the ball groupers, going to stand up and demand ZOS fix this idiotic form of pvp. I shouldn't even have to mention the lag it creates. Do you all even know what causes the lag? It's not so much so many players on the screen. It's the usage of skills. And in this game there are no cooldowns like in most other mmo's, regen builds are used by a lot of people because it's easy mode and ball groups necessitate spamming the ever living hell out of skills. The end result is endless, mindless spamming of skills never before seen in any mmo anywhere and the LAG it creates. The game will always have lag, but there is a marked difference when a ball group is doing its thing versus just regular lag.

I think I just found a new best friend. I swear I`ve written exact this post with slightly different wording in a different games forum a few years back. Love.

Dekkameron

I only came in this thread to see what the ridiculous title was about..

Now i know!

jrkhan

Yep. This play style could best be accomplished with a single human player and 23+ accounts hitting the same movement keys. (Of course spamming their ability of choice). Occasionally someone gets cc'd and needs to catch up, but that could probably be dealt with. I'm actually inclined to try something like this out now that I don't need to pay for each account..

Technically, I don't think it violates any rules on macros/botting since the human is still in control of each keystroke.
I think some one needs to do this - Really might help bring attention to just how exploitative this tactic really is.

Warraxx

jrkhan

Warraxx wrote: »

Well played ad hominum to really hilight the sort of intelligent discourse those in favor of the blob are capable of

Waffennacht

Groups get me killed, they totally fall apart when a flag boss shows and then a NB kills you...

Alliance points are useful but you don't need to do massive stuff to gain them. I only do repeatable quest in Cyrodiil and do 1v1 when it comes up. Sure you don't gain a ton of AP but then again this game is not intended to be maxed out in just a few months.

k2blader

I don't really understand the rant because you use the term "ball group" but don't define it. If it's a smaller "ball group" that's successfully killing off a larger zerg, what is the complaint exactly?

Lucky28

Hammy01 wrote: »

Safety in numbers, it's that simple. Not everyone has the skill to solo/small group pvp in Cyrodiil... especially when most times you are always going to run into large groups on the other side.

This of course could be fixed if they just added in some cool objectives for solo/small groups to pvp over.

No, zerg is what you're thinking of right now. Zergs and ball groups are different however, ball groups are the groups that huddle together and do nothing but spam prox Det, AOE and AOE heals.

kadar

elc8745ub17_ESO wrote: »

Do any of you all realize that monkeys could be trained to run in ball groups? Like literally. Dead serious. A monkey could be trained to do the things required to run in a ball group. One more time for emphasis. Ball group pvp is so dumbed down that a MONKEY...could perform the functions required.

And ball groups are the dominant thing in pvp right now and its been that way for quite awhile. Does anyone see any kind of problem with this? At all? I have a little respect for the leaders of these ball groups, because the leading can't be done by a monkey. That requires human level intelligence.

How do you ball groupers even pat yourself on the back or give congrats after a long night of pvping? Like what the hell do you even say? "Good job everybody turning right when we called turn RIGHT. That was an amazing right turn and boy did we press our buttons, the same buttons we press every single time were about to crash into some people. You all really pressed those buttons well, keeping the heals up without even knowing who you're healing or why you're healing them or what's even hitting you, just healing like bosses, healing when we're not even being hit in case of emergency alien attack from outer space. And oh man that LEFT turn holyyyyyyyyy, YALL that left turn was executed perfectly, I know we turn left a lot, sometimes right, or we just keep going forward but my DAWGS....THAT.LEFT.TURN. KILLLLLLLT IT.

When are you people, and this means EVERYONE, not even just the ball groupers, going to stand up and demand ZOS fix this idiotic form of pvp. I shouldn't even have to mention the lag it creates. Do you all even know what causes the lag? It's not so much so many players on the screen. It's the usage of skills. And in this game there are no cooldowns like in most other mmo's, regen builds are used by a lot of people because it's easy mode and ball groups necessitate spamming the ever living hell out of skills. The end result is endless, mindless spamming of skills never before seen in any mmo anywhere and the LAG it creates. The game will always have lag, but there is a marked difference when a ball group is doing its thing versus just regular lag.

I feel you're pain...

Except that I've been in pug and even guild groups that struggle to ball zerg effectively. And you're right, Monkeys would probably be better at the ball zerg. At least THEY would actually listen to and follow commands...

elc8745ub17_ESO

Ball group - a group of players consisting of usually 12-24 people, who stay together in a relatively tight formation, aka ball (or blob). Each player has a dedicated role, a sequence of skills that that player spams, whether its heals, aoe damage skills, or utility skills.

The group as a whole takes full advantage of horrible and completely broken game mechanics. Those broken game mechanics being that the aoe cap for damage skills is 6 people, everyone after the 6 takes half damage (I believe), the cap on healing/utility skills is unlimited (I believe). So when you're in a ball group of 24 players, if someone jumps in and aoe damages you, only 6 players take full damage. But the other 18 players are healing them, themselves, 24 people total, for the full amount.

The ball is virtually impenetrable except by another ball group, or by completely overwhelming numbers of random zergers. I believe there is a thread on this forum somewhere with the title 18 vs 121 pwnage! or something like that. That sounds a little far fetched but gives you an idea. These groups can take on WAY more than their number because they are taking advantage of broken game mechanics that gives them ALL THE ADVANTAGES, while needing hardly any skill.

The end result is a play style that takes very little skill, very little thinking, very little adaptation (you just always do the same thing basically) ends up being the play style that dominates Cyrodiil the most.

I'm not talking about zergs, pugs, "large amounts of players working together", people who aren't very experienced in the game and like to stick with larger groups of people for the general security that numbers provide. I'm not talking about any of that. Those are the people who end up getting killed repeatedly by ball groups all.day.every.single.day. I'm talking very specifically about ball groups.

elc8745ub17_ESO

The thing is, I know running a ball group takes coordination. I know it takes some effort. I know the damage dealers in the ball group need to time their aoe damage skills and hit it around the same time for max effectiveness. The healers need to keep pumping their heals. I get it. It does take a little coordination and timing. And if you can get your group doing that seamlessly, youre going to have a pretty solid fighting force.

So why artificially reward that by reducing the damage they take just because they're in a ball? Why not let these ball groups stand on their own and TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE FROM AOE AS EVERYONE ELSE DOES?

elc8745ub17_ESO

Not to mention when people are in a ball, do you know how hard it is to target one individual with single target skills? Your only choice a lot of times IS to aoe. So you aoe them. 6 of them take full damage, the other 18 take half. Meanwhile you take 100% damage from all 24 of them. So not only is it 1 vs 24 (and I'm not advocating 1vs24 or saying that 1 person should have any remote chance of killing 24 players) but again not only is it 1 vs 24, with all of the advantages that that in itself brings, but they ALSO have artificial advantages, aka broken mechanics, helping them as well.

Docmandu

Hammy01 wrote: »

Safety in numbers, it's that simple. Not everyone has the skill to solo/small group pvp in Cyrodiil... especially when most times you are always going to run into large groups on the other side.

This of course could be fixed if they just added in some cool objectives for solo/small groups to pvp over.

Safety in numbers doesn't mean you have to all stand on the same pixel spamming proxy + barrier + whatever AoE skill you have on the bar.

The few times when you have 2 large groups run into each other and people actually spread out to fight, are fun times... because then you actually play and fight, instead of mindlessly following a crown symbol.

but... barrier and proxy det === zerg ball love

Johngo0036

@elc8745ub17_ESO - Unfortunately it is the meta of PVP. It is the win button that these groups know well....

I have seen a 4 Man team Nuke a zerg of 24 plus purely coz they know what to do and when to do it,
without the leader calling on them..

I myself HATE zerg balls however in order to take keeps on campaigns against a zerg you generally join them.... .

Ganj

haha monkeys. ZOS love those monkeys.

VirtualElizabeth

Touch My Monkey

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VSWtCrqB3E4

Ganj

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Touch My Monkey

https://youtube.com/watch?v=VSWtCrqB3E4

Welldone! Now i will remember this song whenever i got chase by zergs.

jrkhan

I think a ZOS response on blob/ball groups would be appreciated.

Is stacking as many as possible on crown and taking advantage of aoe mechanics supposed to be the most effective form of group pvp?

There have been dozens of similar threads.